Suckeyes Tattoo Investigation

[Zippysgotagun]

I still fail to see a violation in what they did (with the possible exception of the jerseys). They sold stuff that belonged to them...why are they not allowed? However, just because it's a dumb rule doesn't mean it shouldn't be followed. I would think that the original accusation (Hey, you're [Player X] from [big Name University]! Have a free [whatever store sells].) is pretty cut and dry, and not cool. But selling your own personal belongings? Weird.

And for those that claim they would care if it weren't OSU under the gun: I still have yet to see a whiff of any complaint about Cam Newton/Auburn. There was a thread detailing (allegedly) all sorts of much more terrible things, and nobody really seemed to care all that much.

[K92]

I still fail to see a violation in what they did (with the possible exception of the jerseys). They sold stuff that belonged to them...why are they not allowed? However, just because it's a dumb rule doesn't mean it shouldn't be followed. I would think that the original accusation (Hey, you're [Player X] from [big Name University]! Have a free [whatever store sells].) is pretty cut and dry, and not cool. But selling your own personal belongings? Weird.

And for those that claim they would care if it weren't OSU under the gun: I still have yet to see a whiff of any complaint about Cam Newton/Auburn. There was a thread detailing (allegedly) all sorts of much more terrible things, and nobody really seemed to care all that much.

Isn't the reason why players can't sell their own personal items is because if it were allowed, it would soon escalate into boosters paying players exorbitant sums for worthless items?

[Zippysgotagun]

I still fail to see a violation in what they did (with the possible exception of the jerseys). They sold stuff that belonged to them...why are they not allowed? However, just because it's a dumb rule doesn't mean it shouldn't be followed. I would think that the original accusation (Hey, you're [Player X] from [big Name University]! Have a free [whatever store sells].) is pretty cut and dry, and not cool. But selling your own personal belongings? Weird.

And for those that claim they would care if it weren't OSU under the gun: I still have yet to see a whiff of any complaint about Cam Newton/Auburn. There was a thread detailing (allegedly) all sorts of much more terrible things, and nobody really seemed to care all that much.

Isn't the reason why players can't sell their own personal items is because if it were allowed, it would soon escalate into boosters paying players exorbitant sums for worthless items?

Hadn't really thought about that, but there certainly could at least be some sort of rule about market value for items or something.

[UAZipster0305]

I still fail to see a violation in what they did (with the possible exception of the jerseys). They sold stuff that belonged to them...why are they not allowed? However, just because it's a dumb rule doesn't mean it shouldn't be followed. I would think that the original accusation (Hey, you're [Player X] from [big Name University]! Have a free [whatever store sells].) is pretty cut and dry, and not cool. But selling your own personal belongings? Weird.

And for those that claim they would care if it weren't OSU under the gun: I still have yet to see a whiff of any complaint about Cam Newton/Auburn. There was a thread detailing (allegedly) all sorts of much more terrible things, and nobody really seemed to care all that much.

Isn't the reason why players can't sell their own personal items is because if it were allowed, it would soon escalate into boosters paying players exorbitant sums for worthless items?

Hadn't really thought about that, but there certainly could at least be some sort of rule about market value for items or something.

Market value is simply what someone else is willing to pay. So, if a booster is willing to pay 500x what another person is for an item, then the market value of that item is 500x. I don't think there can be language that avoids a situation like this. Hence, the NCAA doesn't let student-athletes sell things, which I think is ludicrous. The trick is to get rid of the boosters, and allow student-athletes to sell personal belongings. Too much money involved though...won't happen.

[skip-zip]

However, if this was anyone other than OSU, you guys could care less.

You're right. Know why? Because we are their first opponent during the terms of the suspension.

Bingo.

[UAZip0510]

Ianello still has knee pain from his recruiting of Vinnie Ruzzo, so I think Tressel still wins out here.

Strange.

Just pointing out the silliness of making fun of Tressell's recruitment of Pryor. Every coach kisses recruits' asses to get them to commit, I'm not sure why him doing so is so bad...he got his guy.

[Zip_ME87]

True. However, you said it was not against the rules to get a job. It is during the school year.

Not quite. If you read the link I posted, Proposition 62 allows players to earn up to $2000 working during the academic year (in addition to their ability to work during the summer). All I was noting was that prior to Proposition 62, players were always allowed to work during the summer.

[GoZips]

ROFLMAO

Not one of you has mentioned Pell grants. In my day a Pell grant was $400/mo. Today it is some

where north of $1200/mo. Twelve hundred dollars a month of free and clear spending money

should be more than enough to cover any player's incidentals.

This is about greed and arrogance. Not helping their poor starving families. The hypocrisy of allowing

Cam Newton to play a single snap after it was revealed that his daddy sold his services to the highest

bidder.

OSwho lying about "self-reporting". These infractions occurred nearly a year ago. The NCAA

was just about to come down hard on poor, little, orphaned OSwho when they "self-reported"

As for recruiting of Pryor. It was a widely circulated rumor at that time that OSwho was tampering.

It was all swept under the rug when opposing coaches complaints were disallowed by the benevolent NCAA.

When you recruit bums, you get bums. Or, don't any of you remember poor, left out in the cold to

die CJ? Both of the CJs actually.

Its all about the money. Paying players (player signs with the highest bidder) is the quickest way to

bring the NCAA down.

[GP1]

Not many jobs work 40 hours a week for seasonal employment. $2800 is enough money to spend on things through the year when your room and board, tuition, books, and food costs are all paid for via scholarship.

Take out taxes and you are looking at around $2,300. Remember, this is tops on what they could earn if you take into consideration max 30 hours and a relatively high paying job for a non-skilled employee at $8.00 per hour. That's only at best around $44 per week. One needs a car to get to work, etc.? The average price of gas is $3.00 per gal. Basically, the kid is paying to fill his car up to go to work.

If these amounts of money were acceptable, players would never leave early to go professional or sell what they have. They would stay in college and live high off the hog on their $44 per week.

I also believe the players when they say they wanted to help their families. It all goes back to my main point about the life a lot of college players come from and how a lot of fans really don't understand how bad it is. Like it or not, a lot of the player have children that need food, etc. They love their families and are not going to abandon them when the family needs money. I would hope none of us would abandon our families. A guy can't go out and get a job to help support his family? That is just wrong. The rules were put in place years ago and need to be changed to accommodate the change in society.

What the players at tOSU are guilty of is breaking a lot of really stupid rules.

[GP1]

This is about greed and arrogance. Not helping their poor starving families. The hypocrisy of allowing

Cam Newton to play a single snap after it was revealed that his daddy sold his services to the highest

bidder.

Its all about the money. Paying players (player signs with the highest bidder) is the quickest way to

bring the NCAA down.

How do you know it isn't about helping their families for some of them?

I agree it is all about money. The only people not making the money they deserve are the people doing the actual work that makes the schools the money. I don't think paying players will bring the NCAA down, and if that did happen, why would that be a bad thing? The NCAA needs to reform itself.

The answer is not the schools paying the players. The answer is allowing the players to go out and earn money while on scholarship. What is wrong with a player selling his jersey or a ring or some stupid pair of gold pants to some jock sniffer who is stupid enough to pay for them? To me, that is the type of entrepreneurial behavior a kid should learn in college.

[ZachTheZip]

The answer is not the schools paying the players. The answer is allowing the players to go out and earn money while on scholarship. What is wrong with a player selling his jersey or a ring or some stupid pair of gold pants to some jock sniffer who is stupid enough to pay for them? To me, that is the type of entrepreneurial behavior a kid should learn in college.

Because you would ahve boosters paying out exhobbitant amounts of money for crap. Kid needs some spending money? Sell your used gum wrapper for $5k. Want a new car? Have a booster buy your old pair of shoes for $15k.

This is why players can't sell things. It would devolve into stupidity.

[GP1]

The answer is not the schools paying the players. The answer is allowing the players to go out and earn money while on scholarship. What is wrong with a player selling his jersey or a ring or some stupid pair of gold pants to some jock sniffer who is stupid enough to pay for them? To me, that is the type of entrepreneurial behavior a kid should learn in college.

Because you would ahve boosters paying out exhobbitant amounts of money for crap. Kid needs some spending money? Sell your used gum wrapper for $5k. Want a new car? Have a booster buy your old pair of shoes for $15k.

This is why players can't sell things. It would devolve into stupidity.

Stupidity is not illegal.

People buy all sorts of things that I consider stupid, but the person buying it feels it is worth the money. It isn't up to you or me to decide what is or isn't worth buying and then tell someone they can't sell it because someone else is stupid for buying it. If a jock sniffer wants to buy a stupid pair of gold pants for $10,000, then who are we to say he can't. There is value in it to that person.

[GoZips]

This is about greed and arrogance. Not helping their poor starving families. The hypocrisy of allowing

Cam Newton to play a single snap after it was revealed that his daddy sold his services to the highest

bidder.

Its all about the money. Paying players (player signs with the highest bidder) is the quickest way to

bring the NCAA down.

How do you know it isn't about helping their families for some of them?

I agree it is all about money. The only people not making the money they deserve are the people doing the actual work that makes the schools the money. I don't think paying players will bring the NCAA down, and if that did happen, why would that be a bad thing? The NCAA needs to reform itself.

The answer is not the schools paying the players. The answer is allowing the players to go out and earn money while on scholarship. What is wrong with a player selling his jersey or a ring or some stupid pair of gold pants to some jock sniffer who is stupid enough to pay for them? To me, that is the type of entrepreneurial behavior a kid should learn in college.

GP1, with all due respect. Please consider this. Boosters have in the past often "bought"

items from players for many, many times more money than the item was worth. Example, car

dealers "sold" new cars to players for five or ten dollars. This was a common occurence

at SEC schools in the past. Recently eleven Cadillac Escalades were parked in the player parking

lot at an Ohio State practice facility. Poor, starving families? Wonder which one belonged to

Terrel Pryor.

All too often the NCAA simply goes "wink, wink". The infractions at Ohio State are serious. These

players knew better. It is sad to watch on TV the AD and the football coach pretending that they

and the school are innocent. It is high time they grow some balls, some character and integrity.

[skip-zip]

ROFLMAO

Not one of you has mentioned Pell grants. In my day a Pell grant was $400/mo. Today it is some

where north of $1200/mo. Twelve hundred dollars a month of free and clear spending money

should be more than enough to cover any player's incidentals.

This is about greed and arrogance. Not helping their poor starving families. The hypocrisy of allowing

Cam Newton to play a single snap after it was revealed that his daddy sold his services to the highest

bidder.

OSwho lying about "self-reporting". These infractions occurred nearly a year ago. The NCAA

was just about to come down hard on poor, little, orphaned OSwho when they "self-reported"

As for recruiting of Pryor. It was a widely circulated rumor at that time that OSwho was tampering.

It was all swept under the rug when opposing coaches complaints were disallowed by the benevolent NCAA.

When you recruit bums, you get bums. Or, don't any of you remember poor, left out in the cold to

die CJ? Both of the CJs actually.

Its all about the money. Paying players (player signs with the highest bidder) is the quickest way to

bring the NCAA down.

I've stayed pretty silent to kind of let this thing play out a bit, but I pretty much agree with this.

I know plenty of OSWho fans, and I will cut them a little slack since most of them hold the almightly OSWho above God, and think they can do no wrong, and it's useless to try to talk rationally with them. BUT, I find it laughable if anyone truly believes that this serious of events was some kind of humanitarian effort to help others. Spare Me !!

Beyond that, I'm a Zips fan, and think about what will benefit the Zips. If we allow the big schools with all this money floating around to break rules, it's not a benefit to the Zips. If we allow the bigger schools with a lot of money to pay players, that's a disadvantage to the Zips. So, at this point, I'm completely in favor of enforcing all of these rules, and putting the hammer down on any schools that are getting any kind of unfair advantage becuase players are able to gain benefits that they wouldn't be able to obtain if they played at a MAC school.

[GP1]

GP1, with all due respect. Please consider this. Boosters have in the past often "bought"

items from players for many, many times more money than the item was worth. Example, car

dealers "sold" new cars to players for five or ten dollars. This was a common occurence

at SEC schools in the past. Recently eleven Cadillac Escalades were parked in the player parking

lot at an Ohio State practice facility. Poor, starving families? Wonder which one belonged to

Terrel Pryor.

All too often the NCAA simply goes "wink, wink". The infractions at Ohio State are serious. These

players knew better. It is sad to watch on TV the AD and the football coach pretending that they

and the school are innocent. It is high time they grow some balls, some character and integrity.

There is no doubt the rules were broken. I have no idea whether the players knew or not and that doesn't matter.

Let's get back to the Cadillac analogy. Instead of a player being given a car, what if that player agreed to spend three house at the dealership signing autographs? In exchange for the time, the player is given a car. Payment for services rendered is what I call that. Some also call payment for services rendered a "job". Kid signs autographs. Dealership advertises to all jock sniffers in Columbus that Jock X is going to be signing autographs at dealership. A certain number of jock sniffers buy car from dealership as a result of trip to dealership to sniff jock. Jock gets car for service. Dealership sells more cars as a result of advertising cost (car to jock). Jock sniffers get to sniff jock and some buy new car. Everyone wins and nothing illegal has taken place. God bless America.

[Buckzip]

ROFLMAO

Not one of you has mentioned Pell grants. In my day a Pell grant was $400/mo. Today it is some

where north of $1200/mo. Twelve hundred dollars a month of free and clear spending money

should be more than enough to cover any player's incidentals.

This is about greed and arrogance. Not helping their poor starving families. The hypocrisy of allowing

Cam Newton to play a single snap after it was revealed that his daddy sold his services to the highest

bidder.

OSwho lying about "self-reporting". These infractions occurred nearly a year ago. The NCAA

was just about to come down hard on poor, little, orphaned OSwho when they "self-reported"

As for recruiting of Pryor. It was a widely circulated rumor at that time that OSwho was tampering.

It was all swept under the rug when opposing coaches complaints were disallowed by the benevolent NCAA.

When you recruit bums, you get bums. Or, don't any of you remember poor, left out in the cold to

die CJ? Both of the CJs actually.

Its all about the money. Paying players (player signs with the highest bidder) is the quickest way to

bring the NCAA down.

I've stayed pretty silent to kind of let this thing play out a bit, but I pretty much agree with this.

I know plenty of OSWho fans, and I will cut them a little slack since most of them hold the almightly OSWho above God, and think they can do no wrong, and it's useless to try to talk rationally with them. BUT, I find it laughable if anyone truly believes that this serious of events was some kind of humanitarian effort to help others. Spare Me !!

Beyond that, I'm a Zips fan, and think about what will benefit the Zips. If we allow the big schools with all this money floating around to break rules, it's not a benefit to the Zips. If we allow the bigger schools with a lot of money to pay players, that's a disadvantage to the Zips. So, at this point, I'm completely in favor of enforcing all of these rules, and putting the hammer down on any schools that are getting any kind of unfair advantage becuase players are able to gain benefits that they wouldn't be able to obtain if they played at a MAC school.

Wow, I actually agree with Skip. Other than the hypocisy of you saying others aren't rational on a subject, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

BTW, not everyone is defending what these kids did as freshman. Many, many are not defending them. It's split nearly 50/50.

[Buckzip]

However, if this was anyone other than OSU, you guys could care less.

You're right. Know why? Because we are their first opponent during the terms of the suspension.

Bingo.

What's hilarious is that you guys probably really believe that. LOL.

[Spin]

How exactly are they acting holier-than-thou?

They're acting like these guys never KNEW it was illegal to do that stuff. BS

If the Sweater Vest was such a virtuous and honest man, he would leave them guys in Columbus and not dress them for the bowl game. Instead, he's APPEALING the penalties. After he admitted they did it. Real men like JD and Keith kick men off of their teams for being stupid. The Vest makes excuses for them and files appeals.

Ohio State self-reported, so I'm not sure how they are being "holier-than-thou"...the players were stupid and the school/athletic department did the right thing when they discovered the issue. Had they not come clean, I'm sure you'd be bashed them for that too...either way, you would have found a reason.

The NCAA was investigating the tatoo incident when they found all this other stuff that was illegally sold. THEN tOSU came out and reported it.

I was born and raised an Ohio State fan, still have my autographed Archie Griffin picture. Still have tOSU clothes. Still hope they win. Unless they play Akron. But I don't take a blind eye to the hypocrisy fuelled by the NCAA. And I no longer see the Vest on the same throne as Jesus like a lot of "honks" do anymore.

The NCAA would have let any BCS team play ($$$$), not just OSU

Thank you, you made my point. If it were Iowa or Ball State or John Carroll those guys would never see the field again. But because it was one of the NCAA's money machines, it's a double standard.

If the suspension was rigged due to the schedule it would have been the first four games, with the players returning against Michigan State.

I gotta think the rating$ are going to be a little bit better for tOSU Nebraska. Many in the media outside Ohio see it the same way.

[skip-zip]

However, if this was anyone other than OSU, you guys could care less.

You're right. Know why? Because we are their first opponent during the terms of the suspension.

Bingo.

What's hilarious is that you guys probably really believe that. LOL.

Hey, I'm sure we all still realize that we'll need a miracle to win. But, one can still hope

[GP1]

If the Sweater Vest was such a virtuous and honest man, he would leave them guys in Columbus and not dress them for the bowl game. Instead, he's APPEALING the penalties. After he admitted they did it. Real men like JD and Keith kick men off of their teams for being stupid. The Vest makes excuses for them and files appeals.

Tressel is not a virtuous man. None of them are. He knows, as well as everyone else out there, that he can't win without four of the five guys. He also knows that losing to yet another SEC team would heap only laughter upon tOSU. He can't let that happen. He's doing the right thing for the program.

We really don't know is what KD and JD would do in this situation. Going to the BCS is like making the Sweet 16 in basketball. If we were good enough to either make a BCS game or the Sweet 16, it would be interesting to see how JD or KD would react (I know, JD isn't the coach). My guess is they would take the same direction Tressel did. I would hope so anyhow. I just wish we were good enough to make a BCS game or Sweet 16.

In the end, this isn't going to hurt tOSU. If Pryor and the RB go to the NFL, nothing is lost. They have a really good QB coming in next year and they have plenty of RB depth to have a good team again next year. They have another Adams right behind him if Adams goes to the NFL (probably not ready yet, but why not if you are going to miss half of a season). This punishment is meaningless to tOSU. They will march right through a poor ooc schedule and have their new guys ready for MSU.

I always say that the top 40 college football teams should leave the NCAA and start their own league. This case is why that should happen. We all know the ncaa is a joke, but this is sort of the icing on the cake. It is meaningless and if it is meaningless, then why be a part of it? The bcs level schools can do whatever they want and if they got away from the ncaa, they might be even more successful. It might be best for the non-bcs school not to be party to this. Reform would bring some sanity back into college athletics.

[Buckzip]

However, if this was anyone other than OSU, you guys could care less.

You're right. Know why? Because we are their first opponent during the terms of the suspension.

Bingo.

What's hilarious is that you guys probably really believe that. LOL.

Hey, I'm sure we all still realize that we'll need a miracle to win. But, one can still hope

Don't be so sure. Eventually Akron will be the team to knock someone off the perch.

Over confidence for a team can be a bad thing.

[Buckzip]

"They're acting like these guys never KNEW it was illegal to do that stuff. BS

If the Sweater Vest was such a virtuous and honest man, he would leave them guys in Columbus and not dress them for the bowl game. Instead, he's APPEALING the penalties. After he admitted they did it. Real men like JD and Keith kick men off of their teams for being stupid. The Vest makes excuses for them and files appeals."

What a crock of BS. JT has dismissed many players. He runs one of the cleanest programs in the nation.

You know nothing of him at all, and that is apparent. You can bash OSU all you want, but JT is one of the most respected coaches in all of football.

Akron has had many players kicked off the team and many that haven't been. The difference is that ESPiN and 10 message boards aren't talking about Akron non stop.

If Cam Newton played for Akron do you think we would know about the $200K? No, we wouldn't.

He was bought and paid for, and the NCAA is letting him play in the NCG. I suppose you think that is ok. It must be because I don't see a large thread here about him.

This crap happens quite oftern. Not an excuse at all. But it does. If the IRS doesn't investigate this tat parlor, none of this is discovered.

If you don't think this and much worse happen, even at OSU, you are very misguided.

OSU has a strong compliance department. However, they don't babysit the players 24/7/365.

If players are going to be stupid, there is nothing you can do about it. Contrary to what the haters want to say, OSU self reported this. There was no coverup.

Want to talk about dirty coaches, you should look at many in the SEC and Pete Carrol when at USC. Those guys are dirty. You don't notice that because you aren't obsessed with bashing those guys though.

Personally I don't think the players should play.

This is a no win situation for OSU. You don't play the players, OSU loses and all that is remembered is that OSU lost to another SEC team.

If you play the players, then ESPiN and the talking heads talk about OSU winning with cheaters.

The only win for OSU is to suspend the players and still win. Very unlikely to happen. They can't beat the SEC with the starters, no chance without them.

Also, is it fair to the rest of the team to be punished for stupidity by Freshman 2 years ago? This one I am torn over.

Is it fair to all those that bought tickets, for both teams, to go to New Orleans to watch a game missing the star power?

And the biggest thing, do you think the NCAA or network will accept losing the revenue this game will generate?

[Dave in Green]

NCAA Ruling Defies Common Sense

Feigned Ignorance Equals Bliss

[cade172488]

Here is a link to the timeline of the events:

http://theozone.net/football/2010/SugarBowl/NCAAtimeline.htm

[Dave in Green]

This is what I find intriguing in the timeline:

Dec. 7 – Ohio State receives call from U.S. Attorney’s office saying that items belonging to OSU players were found in a home/place of business that had been seized. Wanted to find out if the items were bought or stolen.

Would be interesting to know who owned the seized property containing the items, and what other properties were in that location. It begs the question of who exactly was involved in the purchase from the players, and what were the players doing dealing with a person or persons whose property was seized by the U.S. Attorney's office?

There may be a perfectly innocent answer to this. I wonder if we'll ever know?