Akron September opponent's coach in hot water?

[skip-zip]

Browns camp, Steelers camp, looks like someone is lining up his next job. Wonder how that resume reads?

His resume? I'd love to hear the interview...

HR Department: "So Jim, tell me why you are looking for a new job."

Tressel: "I had to resign in disgrace from my previous employer. I'm laughing all the way to the bank though."

HR Department: "Tell me about a time when you had a difficult decision to make and how you handled it."

Tressel: "I was well aware some of my players were breaking NCAA rules with a drug dealer under investigation by the Federal Government. I had to decide whether it was more important to win games or tell the University compliance officer about it and having my key player suspended. After a lot of praying, I decided to pretend like I didn't know about it and lied to my employer about it. It was a very tough decision. Did I tell you we won the Sugar Bowl?"

I could go on all day..... The strange thing is, in every business under the sun, with the exception of athletics, a guy like Tressel would never get another job. In the world of athletics, he will have his pick of scouting and coaching jobs in the NFL.

Beautiful !!!!!!

[Dave in Green]

So having a relationship with a noted drug dealer has no impact on his NFL career?

Maybe, maybe not. Are we going to suspend every player coming out of college this season for five games who might have some relationship with a drug dealer? 80% of the rookies wouldn't be on the field for the first five games.

The NFL/NCAA agreement is that the NFL will match any NCAA punishment for a player who leaves the NCAA for the NFL to escape NCAA punishment. It only affects players found guilty of violating rules, not players only suspected of violating rules. Kind of fits in with the American system of jurisprudence that one is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, don't you think?

[GP1]

So having a relationship with a noted drug dealer has no impact on his NFL career?

Maybe, maybe not. Are we going to suspend every player coming out of college this season for five games who might have some relationship with a drug dealer? 80% of the rookies wouldn't be on the field for the first five games.

The NFL/NCAA agreement is that the NFL will match any NCAA punishment for a player who leaves the NCAA for the NFL to escape NCAA punishment. It only affects players found guilty of violating rules, not players only suspected of violating rules. Kind of fits in with the American system of jurisprudence that one is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, don't you think?

I've never heard of this agreement.

There is a lot more justice in the American system of jurisprudence than in the NCAA system.

[Dave in Green]

My bad. My wording suggested a formal agreement, which in fact is not in effect.

Many stories were written last year about the NFL, NCAA, NFL Players Association and American Football Coaches Association meeting more than once to discuss potential solutions to ongoing issues with shady agents. The discussion expanded to include agreement from all sides on how the images of the NCAA and the NFL, as well as their players, are harmed when a college player bails out to the NFL to escape penalties for an NCAA infraction.

The NFL was said to be especially interested in finding a way to effectively deal with this. The 5-game NFL suspension for Pryor is the first indication that the NFL is willing to take independent action, formal agreement or not.

[GP1]

The NFL was said to be especially interested in finding a way to effectively deal with this. The 5-game NFL suspension for Pryor is the first indication that the NFL is willing to take independent action, formal agreement or not.

So let me get this straight. The nfl is now going to punish players for breaking the moronic ncaa rules. Doesn't that make the nfl as stupid as the ncaa?

[Doug Snyder]

The NFL was said to be especially interested in finding a way to effectively deal with this. The 5-game NFL suspension for Pryor is the first indication that the NFL is willing to take independent action, formal agreement or not.

So let me get this straight. The nfl is now going to punish players for breaking the moronic ncaa rules. Doesn't that make the nfl as stupid as the ncaa?

Typical response from a progressive liberal. If you don't like the rules/laws....just ignore them. Illegal immigration....ignore. Paying taxes....ignore. Planned parenthood consulting minors....ignore. Election laws....ignore. Constitution….ignore

So...yea. It may make them stupid...but law abiding citizens and organizations.

How can someone label a coach who did not follow rules he thought insignificant and stupid as a "cheater" and give others a hall pass for violating rules/laws. maybe we need to run all rules and laws by the Great One first.

[Dave in Green]

Progressive liberal? For shame, Doug. GP1 has clearly stated on many occasions that he favors libertarianism. Libertarians are against big government, big sanctioning organizations, any big organizations that trample individual rights.

Just eliminate all authority, turn everyone loose and the free market system will straighten everything out.

[Doug Snyder]

Progressive liberal? For shame, Doug. GP1 has clearly stated on many occasions that he favors libertarianism. Libertarians are against big government, big sanctioning organizations, any big organizations that trample individual rights.

Just eliminate all authority, turn everyone loose and the free market system will straighten everything out.

yea yea yea. GP1 says a lot of things. I think you need to pay attention to the small print at the bottom of his posts.

Actually... I am good with Liberals and Libertarians. If you fully embrace democracy...you want multiple view points. I have a problem with people who want to silence the opposition. In GP1s case...he is either the biggest hypocrite or he is playing that “you want it to be one way. But it’s the other way” stuff again. He obviously is playing “Howard Stern” and making outrageous statements to instigate a free for all debate.

BTW. Neither Progressive Liberal nor Libertarian policies are good for the country. COMPROMISE...a concept lost in our society. The answer is always somewhere in the middle. Focusing on the 3 "C"s would make life better in all walks of life. Communicate, Cooperate, Compromise

[Doug Snyder]

Progressive liberal? For shame, Doug. GP1 has clearly stated on many occasions that he favors libertarianism. Libertarians are against big government, big sanctioning organizations, any big organizations that trample individual rights.

Just eliminate all authority, turn everyone loose and the free market system will straighten everything out.

Man...you ruined my day. GP1 is against big government?? So am I. Hard to believe we would have the same views on something so important. (I am am the "Blue Dog" or "Reagan" Democrat....more independant really)

[GP1]

Just eliminate all authority, turn everyone loose and the free market system will straighten everything out.

How is the big government ncaa treating non-bcs schools and why would we (non-bcs schools) want to continue to be part of that organization?

[Dave in Green]

How is the big government ncaa treating non-bcs schools and why would we (non-bcs schools) want to continue to be part of that organization?

Because there's a proven path to the top for non-BCS schools in the NCAA.

Boise State has done it in football.

Butler has done it in basketball.

The Zips have done it in soccer.

How does the path to the top for non-BCS midmajors compare in your hypothetical system?

[GP1]

How is the big government ncaa treating non-bcs schools and why would we (non-bcs schools) want to continue to be part of that organization?

Because there's a proven path to the top for non-BCS schools in the NCAA.

Boise State has done it in football.

Butler has done it in basketball.

The Zips have done it in soccer.

How does the path to the top for non-BCS midmajors compare in your hypothetical system?

What is this path to the top the ncaa creates for non-bcs schools? Why is the ncaa the only organization that can create a path to the top? If the ncaa went away tomorrow, within five years, a better organization could be established where teams can more fairly compete. The Titanic is going down for non-bcs schools Dave, you stay on board and hope another boat comes along. I'd like to get on a lifeboat. Think of that analogy when you are sitting at The Big Dialer the last game of the season with 1,000 people in the stands.

For every Boise State, there are 50 schools who don't have a shot and can't compete against bcs schools in a meaningful way. The ones that can are jumping to BCS conferences. Basketball is different as it doesn't take as many players to be successful as football does.

Soccer is like college hockey. There are only about 8-10 schools with decent programs. Akron and Miami (hockey) are good examples of how non-major schools can get good at these sports easily by putting some focus on them.

[Zips Win!]

How is the big government ncaa treating non-bcs schools and why would we (non-bcs schools) want to continue to be part of that organization?

Because there's a proven path to the top for non-BCS schools in the NCAA.

Boise State has done it in football.

Butler has done it in basketball.

The Zips have done it in soccer.

How does the path to the top for non-BCS midmajors compare in your hypothetical system?

If the ncaa went away tomorrow, within five years, a better organization could be established where teams can more fairly compete.

I couldn't agree more with your take, with exception to the above sentence. How/where will there ever be an organization that cares enough about the mid-majors to make it a fair system in football. I just don't see it.

We will not be able to complete for the athletes the bcs schools get and money will always be a problem...What could the "new" organization do?

ESPN and the TV contracts will dictate that 99% of the funds will go to bcs schools. In order to make a few bucks, we will be stuck playing teams like the Red and Silver and get about 3% of what they make on the game...Who is going to change this?

Like others, I see a 4 conference/16 team league forming and we will be stuck on the outside...again...

[skip-zip]

The biggest issue with me is that money is dictating who wins titles. For Akron to compete, we need someone out there putting the thumb down on the big money schools. If the NCAA has lost control, and it means creating a new regulatory body, then I'm OK with that. In the meantime, we need all the help we can get. And the hammer they are putting down on those jokers down at OSWho should be the greatest and most welcome news we can get as Zips fans.

People will argue that the NCAA regulations are too complex, and there are too many rules. Which may be true. But if you are an Akron fan, you should be thrilled and be asking for more of the same. We've shown our ability to have some success with little resources by winning the EM Cup. But, until someone stops schools from virtually BUYING titles, we'll always be on the outside looking in. Becoming a Boise or a Butler is a very, very difficult task. It's a perfect scenario of the right people and players coming together at the right time. And obviously it can be done, but with 100+ football programs and 200+ basketball programs all striving for that same improbable rise, it's always going to take a very magical set of circumstances to make it happen.

[GP1]

How is the big government ncaa treating non-bcs schools and why would we (non-bcs schools) want to continue to be part of that organization?

Because there's a proven path to the top for non-BCS schools in the NCAA.

Boise State has done it in football.

Butler has done it in basketball.

The Zips have done it in soccer.

How does the path to the top for non-BCS midmajors compare in your hypothetical system?

If the ncaa went away tomorrow, within five years, a better organization could be established where teams can more fairly compete.

Like others, I see a 4 conference/16 team league forming and we will be stuck on the outside...again...

I wasn't clear enough in my original post. We'll never be able to compete even in a future league with the highest level. We could compete if we banded in with like schools (Sunbelt, CUSA, MAC, etc) and had our own league.

[GP1]

The biggest issue with me is that money is dictating who wins titles. For Akron to compete, we need someone out there putting the thumb down on the big money schools. If the NCAA has lost control, and it means creating a new regulatory body, then I'm OK with that. In the meantime, we need all the help we can get. And the hammer they are putting down on those jokers down at OSWho should be the greatest and most welcome news we can get as Zips fans.

On many levels, the BCS schools have done everything right. They have won, organized great conferences, started their own TV networks, established huge alumni support, sell out 60,000+ seat stadiums, etc. No organization should come down on them for doing things righ. If they spread all the money around college athletics, the same large schools will still have an advantage and they will find other advantages.

tosu is getting hammered? That's news to me. The money they have to pay back is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall money they made. How is turning wins into loses on paper a punishment? Every coach is replaceable and Tressel can be replaced. What tosu has done is write the book for other schools coming into the same situation (Oregon and LSU are having the same problems) on how to get away with breaking the rules. USC could have done this years ago, but they decided to tell the ncaa to f-off.

[Dave in Green]

So, the NCAA isn't so bad in soccer that schools like UA should want to pull out, since the NCAA has a system in place where schools like UA can win the national championship in soccer.

And the NCAA isn't so bad in basketball that schools like UA should want to pull out, since the NCAA has a system in place where schools like UA (i.e. Butler) can make it all the way to the national championship game.

It's only in football where the NCAA isn't so good for schools like UA that are mired at the bottom, even though other non-BCS schools such as Boise State and TCU have become regulars in the national championship discussion. I wonder if those two schools had GP1 clones posting on their forums in the past that it was hopeless for their schools to try to compete with the BCS schools and they should just hang it up?

Yeah, the NCAA is imperfect. All organizations are, just as all people are. So what's the better option, trying to improve the NCAA or ditching it and starting from scratch?

Neither option would be simple. The NCAA is a huge, entrenched organization that would be as easy to turn around as a loaded supertanker on the high seas. Starting from scratch would bring in a new group of individuals with a new set of conflicting agendas and a whole new set of problems.

The easiest thing in the world is to sit back at the computer keyboard, beer in hand, and tap out posts on internet forums pointing out flaws in people and organizations, because they all have plenty of flaws. It's so easy that hundreds of millions of people around the world do it on a daily basis, and internet forums are full of their critiques.

The hard part is actually formulating a better plan and properly executing it, with no guarantees that things won't go wrong along the way that end up creating a worse situation. That's why one of the fundamentals of medical ethics is: first, do no harm.

It makes perfect sense to have an ongoing discussion about the need for continuous improvement by all organizations, from the NCAA and other sports organizations to school systems, corporations, churches and governments.

But before completely ditching one imperfect system for another imperfect system, we should at least be down to the level of detail of the new system where we can start shooting holes in it before it takes over, for better or worse.

Presented with good options, people can make reasonable choices. Presented with half-assed calls for "anything has to be better than this," reasonable people are going to push back.

[Blue & Gold]

Actually, the vast majority of BCS schools don't really "compete" w/ the couple handfuls of annual National Championship contenders, you know, the same schools that always start the season ranked in the Top 15 in the preseason polls. It's not just non-BCS schools that have an uphill battle, it's 90% of all D-1 schools in general, most BCS schools included.

[GP1]

Yeah, the NCAA is imperfect. All organizations are, just as all people are. So what's the better option, trying to improve the NCAA or ditching it and starting from scratch?

Starting from scratch would bring in a new group of individuals with a new set of conflicting agendas and a whole new set of problems.

Ditching it is the better option. It is broken beyond repair.

A new set of individuals with a new set of conflicting agendas is exactly what the ncaa needs. There are no new ideas and bringing in new people is the answer. Everyone at the ncaa headquarters should be dismissed from their jobs and the windows boarded shut because they won't listen to new ideas.

A couple of weeks ago, I spent some time with a D-1 athletic director. I ran my idea of a new division and this person told me it would never happen because the I-AA schools would never go for it. They don't want to appear second class. The real concern for all non-bcs teams is the day the bcs schools leave the ncaa. It is getting a lot of attention right now and may be closer than anyone wants to admit. The writing is on the walls at the ncaa and the Titanic is taking on water. When that happens, there is no basketball tournament. When there is no basketball tournament, there is no ncaa as it is 75%+ of their revenues. The ncaa is a dying institution. It's dying because it isn't needed.

Again Dave, we can stay on the Titanic and wait for another boat to come by or we can get on a lifeboat. Which do you want? You are welcome on my lifeboat if you wish...don't stay too long though as the Titanic is taking on water quickly.

[Doug Snyder]

Yeah, the NCAA is imperfect. All organizations are, just as all people are. So what's the better option, trying to improve the NCAA or ditching it and starting from scratch?

Starting from scratch would bring in a new group of individuals with a new set of conflicting agendas and a whole new set of problems.

Ditching it is the better option. It is broken beyond repair.

A new set of individuals with a new set of conflicting agendas is exactly what the ncaa needs. There are no new ideas and bringing in new people is the answer. Everyone at the ncaa headquarters should be dismissed from their jobs and the windows boarded shut because they won't listen to new ideas.

A couple of weeks ago, I spent some time with a D-1 athletic director. I ran my idea of a new division and this person told me it would never happen because the I-AA schools would never go for it. They don't want to appear second class. The real concern for all non-bcs teams is the day the bcs schools leave the ncaa. It is getting a lot of attention right now and may be closer than anyone wants to admit. The writing is on the walls at the ncaa and the Titanic is taking on water. When that happens, there is no basketball tournament. When there is no basketball tournament, there is no ncaa as it is 75%+ of their revenues. The ncaa is a dying institution. It's dying because it isn't needed.

Again Dave, we can stay on the Titanic and wait for another boat to come by or we can get on a lifeboat. Which do you want? You are welcome on my lifeboat if you wish...don't stay too long though as the Titanic is taking on water quickly.

You do realize the Titanic was the "new idea" of its day??? I bet lots of those people wish they had waited.

[bobbyake]

didn't Ball State have a shot at a BCS game a few years back? all you have to do is win out, no matter your schedule. Doesn't seem like that would require a big investment if you're in the MAC. Just schedule easy non-conference games and go undefeated for a chance at a BCS game every year.

[K92]

I clicked on this thread to read about the topic in the title, not the Titanic.

[Dave in Green]

Good point on the OT. I'm moving my comments to a new thread.

Here's a link to the new thread:

Yet Another NCAA Football Thread

[Blue & Gold]

didn't Ball State have a shot at a BCS game a few years back? all you have to do is win out, no matter your schedule. Doesn't seem like that would require a big investment if you're in the MAC. Just schedule easy non-conference games and go undefeated for a chance at a BCS game every year.

Right here is one (THE?) reason that when I read the threads about moving the the Big East, I generally have the "careful what you wish for," thought. I'd rather stay in the MAC and dominate this conference every year. We'd have consistent, perhaps annual, Top 25 rankings, even if no real chance at winning the national championship. But that's fine w/ me. My grand vision for Akron football is lower-eschelon Top 25. And we'd be packing the Info & everyone would know who/where Akron is (even though I guess LBJ's already accomplished this one).

Become the Boise State of the MAC.

[ZachTheZip]

didn't Ball State have a shot at a BCS game a few years back? all you have to do is win out, no matter your schedule. Doesn't seem like that would require a big investment if you're in the MAC. Just schedule easy non-conference games and go undefeated for a chance at a BCS game every year.

Right here is one (THE?) reason that when I read the threads about moving the the Big East, I generally have the "careful what you wish for," thought. I'd rather stay in the MAC and dominate this conference every year. We'd have consistent, perhaps annual, Top 25 rankings, even if no real chance at winning the national championship. But that's fine w/ me. My grand vision for Akron football is lower-eschelon Top 25. And we'd be packing the Info & everyone would know who/where Akron is (even though I guess LBJ's already accomplished this one).

Become the Boise State of the MAC.

Boise State translated their success into moving to a better conference.

Akron needs to get to C-USA if your "grand vision" is to happen.