How to Get to Where Butler is Now?

[Dave in Green]

We seem to be in general agreement here, but also seem to be splitting hairs on some of the details.

Miami is an example of a MAC team that schedules more tough OOC games than other MAC teams. They usually lose them all, but occasionally come close. Does this help Miami recruit a higher caliber of player than UA? I don't think so. I think it requires regularly beating tougher opponents to attract higher level recruits.

And that takes us back to the 5-step process outlined in my previous post. The Zips are still stuck at step 2. Skipping ahead to step 3 without completing step 2 is likely to produce Miami-like results.

KD has to find a way to complete step 2 before moving on to step 3. His odds have never been better than they will be the next 2 seasons, with Zeke maturing and potential help from incoming players who appear at least on the surface to have more potential than some of the departing players.

I'd like to see step 2 completed next season with a goal of winning at least 2 of the toughest OOC games, and then increasing the number of tough OOC games by a couple the following season. This will be critical to attracting players of Zeke's caliber to UA to help keep the Zips playing at a higher level after Zeke is gone.

Talented recruits will have to believe that the Zips have a great chance of making the NCAA tournament every year, and a reasonable chance of going beyond one-and-done, before they commit to UA.

EDIT: I have to say I think the Zips took at least a half step forward this season by earning an NCAA berth for the 2nd time in 3 years. That rises above the description of "occasionally" making the tournament.

[zip37]

As long as the MAC has D1 [ ] football draining the budgets, they will not be legit D1 basketball frequent cntenders. The MAC should come to the conclusion that they are not D1 in foorball; then take the obvious step. The only thing D1 about MAC football is, is, is, is....

[ZachTheZip]

As long as the MAC has D1 [ ] football draining the budgets, they will not be legit D1 basketball frequent cntenders. The MAC should come to the conclusion that they are not D1 in foorball; then take the obvious step. The only thing D1 about MAC football is, is, is, is....

Yeah. The MAC needs to drop football like C-USA and the WAC did. Oh, wait...

[zipsbandman]

I'll give you that those schools do have smaller enrollment....but all those schools have another thing in common.....no football. When you are paying Icoach $375k that could be going to Dambrot and his assistants there's your answer.

[Zipmeister]

As a midmajor supporter I love nothing more than to see the Colonial League have as many teams in the sweet 16 as the Big East. Very overrated conference.

two things.

1. I don't think the Colonial League is overrated.

2. Almost all of the years that were tracked for Butler earlier in this thread, they got into the big dance by winning their conference tournament, not through their OOC scheduling.

[you am i]

As a midmajor supporter I love nothing more than to see the Colonial League have as many teams in the sweet 16 as the Big East. Very overrated conference.

two things.

1. I don't think the Colonial League is overrated.

2. Almost all of the years that were tracked for Butler earlier in this thread, they got into the big dance by winning their conference tournament, not through their OOC scheduling.

Butler OOC 20100 schedule:

Losses to Louisville, Duke, and Xavier (by 2 points); Wins against Mississippi State, Stanford, Utah, Florida State, and Washington State.

That schedule had to toughen them up or the tournament.

[skip-zip]

We seem to be in general agreement here, but also seem to be splitting hairs on some of the details.

Miami is an example of a MAC team that schedules more tough OOC games than other MAC teams. They usually lose them all, but occasionally come close. Does this help Miami recruit a higher caliber of player than UA? I don't think so. I think it requires regularly beating tougher opponents to attract higher level recruits.

And that takes us back to the 5-step process outlined in my previous post. The Zips are still stuck at step 2. Skipping ahead to step 3 without completing step 2 is likely to produce Miami-like results.

KD has to find a way to complete step 2 before moving on to step 3. His odds have never been better than they will be the next 2 seasons, with Zeke maturing and potential help from incoming players who appear at least on the surface to have more potential than some of the departing players.

I'd like to see step 2 completed next season with a goal of winning at least 2 of the toughest OOC games, and then increasing the number of tough OOC games by a couple the following season. This will be critical to attracting players of Zeke's caliber to UA to help keep the Zips playing at a higher level after Zeke is gone.

Talented recruits will have to believe that the Zips have a great chance of making the NCAA tournament every year, and a reasonable chance of going beyond one-and-done, before they commit to UA.

EDIT: I have to say I think the Zips took at least a half step forward this season by earning an NCAA berth for the 2nd time in 3 years. That rises above the description of "occasionally" making the tournament.

The highlighted area is an important point. Miami DOES need to beat some of these teams to make a big impact. But, they are putting themselves in a position to make that impact if they do win these games. We don't even have that opportunity. It's like trying to win a contest that you don't even enter. And what if Miami doesn't win any of these games? You guessed it. They still make it to the MAC Tournament as a 2nd chance to get to The Dance, just like everyone else.

[ksu sucks]

As far as scheduling goes-- somewhere between the cupcakes that we used to play and Miami's meat grinder would be ideal. It seems like Dambrot has realized that; he's made the necessary steps to upgrade the schedule in the past couple years.

I'd like to see more average-to-below-average high majors and quality mid majors on our schedule. There's no reason to schedule more than one or two cupcakes or powerhouse programs every season.

[GP1]

As far as scheduling goes-- somewhere between the cupcakes that we used to play and Miami's meat grinder would be ideal. It seems like Dambrot has realized that; he's made the necessary steps to upgrade the schedule in the past couple years.

I'd like to see more average-to-below-average high majors and quality mid majors on our schedule. There's no reason to schedule more than one or two cupcakes or powerhouse programs every season.

Respectfully, there is nothing wrong with our current schedule that a couple of wins against some of the major programs and wins against teams like CSU and Dayton wouldn't cure. The rest of this post isn't directed to you Can't State sucks.

We need to develop one great player who can get us over the hump against these teams.

"But GP1, we are a defensive team, we can't have a great player and play good defense at the same time. KD runs a TEAM game, not a game for selfish THUGS. I'm a closed minded fool and I can't see it another way." Thank you for your comment closed minded fool. You are a proud moron and on some level I can respect a person's pride in their trade. Tell that to Michael Jordan. He was once the Defensive MVP of the league and was league leader in steals three times. Is anyone so stupid as to think we can't have a great offensive player who can also play defense? Keep in mind that in basketball, the guys who play defense also play offense.

Want to improve the program? Improve the players. Get one go to guy.

[Dr Z]

We need to develop one great player who can get us over the hump against these teams.

I'm wondering if Quincy can't fill this role eventually. I noticed in the mac tournament when we had a last play possession at the end of a game. Dambrot called a clear out and left Q dribble the clock out and drive. I thought that was pretty telling for KD to have a sophomore try that. I also think that he has nice anticipation on defense, he seems to fill the passing lanes. I see some steal breakaways in his future.

[Dave in Green]

We seem to be in general agreement here, but also seem to be splitting hairs on some of the details.

Miami is an example of a MAC team that schedules more tough OOC games than other MAC teams. They usually lose them all, but occasionally come close. Does this help Miami recruit a higher caliber of player than UA? I don't think so. I think it requires regularly beating tougher opponents to attract higher level recruits.

And that takes us back to the 5-step process outlined in my previous post. The Zips are still stuck at step 2. Skipping ahead to step 3 without completing step 2 is likely to produce Miami-like results.

KD has to find a way to complete step 2 before moving on to step 3. His odds have never been better than they will be the next 2 seasons, with Zeke maturing and potential help from incoming players who appear at least on the surface to have more potential than some of the departing players.

I'd like to see step 2 completed next season with a goal of winning at least 2 of the toughest OOC games, and then increasing the number of tough OOC games by a couple the following season. This will be critical to attracting players of Zeke's caliber to UA to help keep the Zips playing at a higher level after Zeke is gone.

Talented recruits will have to believe that the Zips have a great chance of making the NCAA tournament every year, and a reasonable chance of going beyond one-and-done, before they commit to UA.

EDIT: I have to say I think the Zips took at least a half step forward this season by earning an NCAA berth for the 2nd time in 3 years. That rises above the description of "occasionally" making the tournament.

The highlighted area is an important point. Miami DOES need to beat some of these teams to make a big impact. But, they are putting themselves in a position to make that impact if they do win these games. We don't even have that opportunity. It's like trying to win a contest that you don't even enter. And what if Miami doesn't win any of these games? You guessed it. They still make it to the MAC Tournament as a 2nd chance to get to The Dance, just like everyone else.

Miami has skpped step 2 in the 5-step process by putting themselves in a position to lose a lot of games against tougher teams before first proving they could win at least a couple of tough games in a slightly weaker schedule.

Exactly what has that gotten them that the Zips haven't gotten by remaining focused on completing step 2 before moving on to step 3?

Would any Zips fans want to trade the Zips' results over the last 5 years with Miami's?

If Miami's strategy was producing better results than UA's in the real world, I'd be a leading advocate for the Zips trying a similar strategy. But it's not. The Zips' strategy of sticking with the 5-step process is currently producing better overall season results. The proof is in the pudding.

The Zips current OOC schedule is balanced just about right in terms of number of tougher opponents for a team that has yet to prove that it can win a couple of those tougher games. The day that UA wins 2 or more of those tougher games in a season is the day I start advocating for the Zips to increase their number of tougher games to a more Miami-like level.

[GP1]

I also think that he has nice anticipation on defense, he seems to fill the passing lanes. I see some steal breakaways in his future.

I hope you are right. He needs to average a lot more points per game than what he did this season. The highest ppg total was 11.7. That is unacceptable and someone needs to produce more points on a nightly basis.

Abreu is actually the best pick pocket on the team. He had more steals than anyone and averaged more steals per minutes played (0.063) than Nik (0.040)or Q (0.046).