A Must Read

[GP1]

ArticleOne of my favorite topics. Not a quick read so give yourself some time.

[Zipsrifle]

Nice article, thanks for posting the link.

[GP1]

Nice article, thanks for posting the link.

My pleasure. I like the way he looks at the reality of college athletics and I especially like the the historical references. Well worth the read.

[skip-zip]

It reminds me that it's highly unlikely that college athletics will ever again be just a competition between young athletes for school pride and bragging rights, while getting an education that is paid for. And that's NOT to say that we should just let the whole thing run out of control, like it is right now.

[GP1]

It reminds me that it's highly unlikely that college athletics will ever again be just a competition between young athletes for school pride and bragging rights, while getting an education that is paid for.

That's because it never was about those things...unless we go back to the 1800s and why would we want it to be the 1800s again?

[GP1]

Deadspin has a good post today.The very last line is the best. Why aren't conferences like the MAC and Sun Belt fighting for their lives by actively researching ways to leave the ncaa and get away from a situation that doesn't favor them in the least? My guess is a lot has to do with Athletic Department employees at those schools not wanting to screw up future employment at a BCS level school.

[GP1]

ArticleOne of my favorite topics. Not a quick read so give yourself some time.

If you don't want to read the entire article, this post brings it together pretty well. Anyone notice anything about the group of NCAA officials who gave us the out dated rules we have today? Hint: They are are bunch of old white guys. Actually, that's not a hint. It's an observation by a guy with 20/20 vision.

[Z.I.P.]

It reminds me that it's highly unlikely that college athletics will ever again be just a competition between young athletes for school pride and bragging rights, while getting an education that is paid for.

That's because it never was about those things...unless we go back to the 1800s and why would we want it to be the 1800s again?

GP1, do you mind explaining to the unwashed masses (or just one ol fuddy duddy under a palm tree), if what you say is true -- what exactly is the value of (college) athletics, if competition and sportsmanship are no longer involved?Mahalo...

[skip-zip]

It reminds me that it's highly unlikely that college athletics will ever again be just a competition between young athletes for school pride and bragging rights, while getting an education that is paid for.

That's because it never was about those things...unless we go back to the 1800s and why would we want it to be the 1800s again?

Oh come on. Have you ever watched an Army - Navy Game? That's the way it should be. Unfortunately, some schools ran afoul over the years and saw ways to get more out of it. And plenty of others followed. And there's probably not much of a chance of being able to reel them back in.

[Dave in Green]

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.Money is power.Follow the money.College football was once an amateur sport, and over time it evolved into a big moneymaker.It will get worse before it gets better.

[GP1]

It reminds me that it's highly unlikely that college athletics will ever again be just a competition between young athletes for school pride and bragging rights, while getting an education that is paid for.

That's because it never was about those things...unless we go back to the 1800s and why would we want it to be the 1800s again?

GP1, do you mind explaining to the unwashed masses (or just one ol fuddy duddy under a palm tree), if what you say is true -- what exactly is the value of (college) athletics, if competition and sportsmanship are no longer involved?

Competition and sportsmanship are involved. Didn't say they were not.BTW, Morning Joe just had a long piece on The Atlantic article with the editor. The world of college football is falling apart right in front of us. Are we paying attention?

[GP1]

Oh come on. Have you ever watched an Army - Navy Game? That's the way it should be.

I haven't watched a full Army-Navy game in years. It's bad entertainment.If it isn't partly about money, why do they charge money for the tickets to go to the Army-Navy game? Why don't they just play it on Armed Forces Radio and not have a contract with CBS to show the game?

[Dave in Green]

Army-Navy game doesn't produce the highest level of college football because the players are primarily soldiers and sailors who also happen to play football -- sort of like the quaint old idea of students getting an education who also happen to play football.The best players go to the football factory colleges so they have the best chance to become pros and make lots of money. Some of them jump the gun and start collecting their money before they get to the pros.The reason the game is broadcast on TV and not just AFRTS is because there are many Army and Navy veterans outside the military to whom this game is important, not because it's the highest level of college football but because these veterans are loyal to the branch of service in which they served.It may seem like an alien concept to those who are fixated on chasing after the almighty dollar. But there really are people in the world who place loyalty, honor and integrity above personal wealth and riches.

[GP1]

Army-Navy game doesn't produce the highest level of college football because the players are primarily soldiers and sailors who also happen to play football -- sort of like the quaint old idea of students getting an education who also happen to play football.The best players go to the football factory colleges so they have the best chance to become pros and make lots of money. Some of them jump the gun and start collecting their money before they get to the pros.

Then gentleman from Green points out the current problem we face in the MAC. We are at the same level as the teams that are actually "football factories". We can't compete with what they have to offer. Wouldn't it be nice if those "football factories" went off into their own league and left everyone else out? Then we could focus on student athletes, who we'll never pay workers comp for if they get a lifelong injury. We can really take the moral high ground then. Those football factories will be able to stay in the sewer and afford things such as workers comp claims for lifetime injuries a player sustains while playing football. They won't have the moral high ground like we do by not paying the claims and having "student athletes". I feel great about where we stand and the current state of college athletics. It's such a fair system.BTW, this is the last time I will ever refer to the term "student athlete". From now on, I will use the term "colonial wards".

[Doug Snyder]

Army-Navy game doesn't produce the highest level of college football because the players are primarily soldiers and sailors who also happen to play football -- sort of like the quaint old idea of students getting an education who also happen to play football.The best players go to the football factory colleges so they have the best chance to become pros and make lots of money. Some of them jump the gun and start collecting their money before they get to the pros.The reason the game is broadcast on TV and not just AFRTS is because there are many Army and Navy veterans outside the military to whom this game is important, not because it's the highest level of college football but because these veterans are loyal to the branch of service in which they served.It may seem like an alien concept to those who are fixated on chasing after the almighty dollar. But there really are people in the world who place loyalty, honor and integrity above personal wealth and riches.

There are people (some in this forum) who think that the primary purpose of sports is to "entertain" us. For those...there should be no complaint that it is all about money.I love the Army-Navy game (joined the Navy to fly). The game is NOT about money as the participants play the game for honor and pride. None expect to play football as a career and most will soon be off representing our country. Most of the people at the game do not pay for their ticket as students get in free and most of the fans at the game are students.I think Lee Adams asked the question of conservatives "how many complain about big government like to take advantage of the free education" (or something close). A similar question can be asked here...how many who complain of "big money" in sports actually go see games at schools like Mount Union and Walsh where the game has nothing to do about money?? GP1 is often telling us about big-time games he goes to from other conferences. Why do we never hear about the small schools he watches??

[g-mann17]

[GP1]

GP1 is often telling us about big-time games he goes to from other conferences. Why do we never hear about the small schools he watches??

Fantastic question. The reason I don't watch any football below the level of the MAC is I find the base athletic and performance abilities of the players insufficient to hold my attention for more than five minutes.I went to a high school football game last Friday because a friend of mine has a son starting for a local high school and I promised I would go to a game. At halftime, I wanted to scratch my eyes out. It was absolute torture for me. I feel the same sensation when I watch DIII, II and 1-AA football on television. Maybe they are all nice kids, but I could care less...we are all supposed to be nice people and do the right thing. When that television goes on, I want to see a high level of athletic ability and skill. I'm not watching to feel good about SAT scores. People who watch games for those reasons remind me of the same people who think Terry Pluto is a good sports commentator.

[Dave in Green]

The ultimate solution is to formally pay a professional fee to every infant who successfully exits a womb and make everyone a professional from day one. That will end all amateur status in everything, and there will be no more need for any rules pertaining to amateurism and professionalism in anything. Everything and everyone will be bought and paid for. TANSTAAFL.If only Ayn Rand had lived a few years longer, she would have surely realized this as the ultimate cornerstone of her philosophy and written a powerful 3,000-page novel about it, and zealous adherents to her philosophy would be running for political office on this platform.

[GP1]

The ultimate solution is to formally pay a professional fee to every infant who successfully exits a womb and make everyone a professional from day one.

Other than surviving a slippery trip through a birth canal, the average newborn hasn't accomplished much. However, if that child grows up and is so good at playing football he earns a scholarship to a University and contributes to making that university millions of dollars, that man should be allowd to capitalize on his success in some manner, including making money off of it somehow.PS, has anyone read the article I posted?

[Doug Snyder]

GP1 is often telling us about big-time games he goes to from other conferences. Why do we never hear about the small schools he watches??

Fantastic question. The reason I don't watch any football below the level of the MAC is I find the base athletic and performance abilities of the players insufficient to hold my attention for more than five minutes.I went to a high school football game last Friday because a friend of mine has a son starting for a local high school and I promised I would go to a game. At halftime, I wanted to scratch my eyes out. It was absolute torture for me. I feel the same sensation when I watch DIII, II and 1-AA football on television. Maybe they are all nice kids, but I could care less...we are all supposed to be nice people and do the right thing. When that television goes on, I want to see a high level of athletic ability and skill. I'm not watching to feel good about SAT scores. People who watch games for those reasons remind me of the same people who think Terry Pluto is a good sports commentator.

LOL I go to a different HS game each week. I like to see kids try and learn the game, the difference team discipline can have and future stars. And I like Terry Pluto. Like I have always said...if you are a hammer...everything looks like a nail.

[GP1]

Deadspin has more today and two good links.The main point is this for us MAC fans. With all of the changes that are now on the table and not coming off the table, what are we going to do about it? What used to be talked about quietly or in theory is now front and center. Everything from players earning because of their ability, to how sickeningly the ncaa conducts itself, to potentially the BCS level teams breaking free of the chains of the ncaa is openly being discussed on the internet and at places like ESPN.Months ago, I told everyone college football was about to change fast and everyone laughed. Would you still laugh at that statement now? If MAClike conferences don't start putting some serious thought as to what they are going to do after the changes, it could get even worse for us.

[Dave in Green]

I read the whole story. Didn't see much I haven't read over the years, but it did summarize a lot in one article.It portrays many of mankind's classic vices: money is power, power corrupts, greed leads to killing the goose that lays golden eggs, etc., etc.There's no way to have a comprehensive discussion about an article of this breadth because it brings up so many different issues and examples. It's thousands of words long and would take many hundreds of thousands of words to thoroughly debate every point.You could take individual elements and shoot holes in them. For example, the author makes a big point that only a fraction of NCAA rules breakers are caught, therefore the rules are unenforceable and should be dropped.But it's the same with every rule and law. A fraction of all speeders are caught and punished. A fraction of all income tax cheaters are caught and punished. A fraction of all burglars are caught and punished. A fraction of all murderers are caught and punished. Therefore, these laws are all unenforceable and should be dropped.What's happening in the modern world of instant communication is that the blueprint for gaming any system is quickly put up on the internet for all to read and learn. Where a few people used to get away with things, now a lot of people do.It's a problem that goes beyond sports. There's no perfect system that can't be cheated just as there's no perfect system that treats everyone fairly all the time. The concept of winning at any cost, whether in athletics, business, politics, or any other human endeavor, ultimately exacts a high cost on society as a whole.If the concept of student-athlete is quaint and outmoded, then maybe it's time to examine whether institutions of higher learning should be involved with sports at all. As the article correctly points out, the U.S. is the only country in the world where universities make millions of dollars on sports. Yet with all of this money coming in, the U.S. is slowly losing its lead in higher education to other countries.Maybe it's time for U.S. institutions of higher learning to get their eyes back on the right ball and lose the obsession with sports. Maybe have a new professional league for HS grads who aren't ready for the NFL. Let the league teams lease college football stadiums to put on their show, and let the colleges focus on turning out better educated students than China and India.

[GP1]

If the concept of student-athlete is quaint and outmoded, then maybe it's time to examine whether institutions of higher learning should be involved with sports at all. As the article correctly points out, the U.S. is the only country in the world where universities make millions of dollars on sports. Yet with all of this money coming in, the U.S. is slowly losing its lead in higher education to other countries.Maybe it's time for U.S. institutions of higher learning to get their eyes back on the right ball and lose the obsession with sports. Maybe have a new professional league for HS grads who aren't ready for the NFL. Let the league teams lease college football stadiums to put on their show, and let the colleges focus on turning out better educated students than China and India.

One of the best points in a while on the board. I'm sure most of us know somone from Europe. Next time you talk to that person, ask them what they think about how Americans treat college athletics. They can't believe the time and money we put into them. They have college sports, but not as big as we do here.In many ways, I think our obsession with sports is hurting education below the college level and is something Americans should take a close look at as we fall further and further behind the rest of the world in education.

[Hilltopper]

It looks like the NCAA is starting to rethink some of their rules.NCAA pushes $2K increase for athletes

Emmert told the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics that the proposal will be finalized this week and he'll ask the NCAA to support it. He noted that student athletes have limited opportunities to work outside the classroom and playing fields, and that the current model of athletic scholarship has not changed for 40 years.

[Dave in Green]

The current model of athletic scholarship has not changed for 40 years?Heck, Rip Van Winkle only slept for 20 years and became a legend.