VMI Game Thread

[ZachTheZip]

I'm not sure we actually fixed any of our problems. The O-line pass protection still leaves a whole lot to be desired with far too many passes getting batted down by defensive linemen pushing our guys around. We still can't convert on 3rd downs, going 3-11 and we still had a bunch of penalties. Moore went 13 of 28 for a 46% completion rate. He only really threw to Sconiers, almost completely ignoring his other options. Chisholm looked good and I was glad to see Tyler Williams returning kicks, although I don't understand why AJ price is still returning punts (or fair-catching them, to be more accurate). The running backs looked good, not just Chisholm but Bostick and Alexander as well. It's about time we started developing some depth behind Chisholm. We still don't have a truly reliable kicker, but I am baffled as to why the coaches wanted to go for two after the first TD. Our return coverage leaves much to be desired.

Wagner once again led in tackles. The D-line looked decent against undersized competition. Our secondary was never really tested because VMI's QB wasn't accurate enough to throw toward their receivers. We did force a couple of turnovers that helped blow the game open.

Attendance was officially reported as 14,257. I'm still very much skeptical about this team. EMU will give them a strong challenge next week.

[bandzip]

Seriously did akron just punt from VMI's 31 yard line? ahahaha wow we suck

Come on let's pad those stats for Moore because after this game he will be exposed and ianellos days are numbered. Wait till the weekly spin we'll be the next coming of green and growing!

Mrs. Nicely, we get the point, you think your son is better then the new guy. How about you keep all of your identical comments in the "Moore Starting" thread you started 3 days ago so we know which one to ignore.

[Zipsrifle]

Well, we did what we were supposed to do yesterday. What a nice confidence booster for the team. I could go all negative Nancy here, and it may seem that I do, but I am not. I'm just glad that we went out and handled a team we should have handled. We didn't put them away as I had hoped in the 2nd half, but we didn't let them get back in the game either. As I am not one who has a good football background, I have a hard time seeing the improvement, especially with the caliber of teams we have been playing. But, it is evident to me that we won't be lighting up the MAC this year. Yesterday I really got the feeling that our youth could be a reason we are having such growing pains. I took a look at the dept chart this morning and we aren't as young as I thought. We don't have upperclassmen at every position, but more than I expected. At this point, I'm trying to believe we are moving in the right direction at a reasonable pace. I really don't have any evidence to support this, however.

I seem to be saying this every week, but next week will give some additional clarity. I do feel we are much better at this point than we were last year. I mean Gardner-Webb won something like 4 games last year and I think VMI would have been more or a challenge a year ago. The EMU game next week, on the other hand is a winnable game. I'm not saying we will win, but it is a MAC team at our level. Just comparing the competition both teams (Akron, EMU) have played, I think they probably will be favored seeing that the game is at home and they have played their competition closer than we have. If this team is really improving as quickly as RI seems to indicate, then I would expect the EMU game to be a nail biter.

Great day for a football game, hope to get another W next week! Go Zips!

[Dr Z]

Frenchy mentioned this is the first time in history that the Zips have had a 150 yard rusher and 150 yard receiver.

That is hard to believe. Did he mention anything about QB knock downs at the line yesterday?

I had an unofficial count of 15 between the two teams.

[Lee Adams]

Was a beautiful day. Zips did what they were supposed to do. They beat a terribly overmatched lower division team. It was a good game to watch individual players and units to see if the same things were happening as during the first 3 games.

The two skill guys Chisholm and Sconiers contiune to develop.

The offensive line was able to push around a smaller d-line and make some room for the QB and RB's.

The coaches finally worked Ty Williams into the O at least a little.

The Wildcat isn't much of a threat unless Chisholm or whomever shows as a threat to throw occasionally.

Moore was able to hit a few more receivers mainly because he wasn't under as much pressure. He still can't throw the short ball from the pocket. How many more did he have batted down yesterday 5-6? We have also seen the limits of his deep ball. There were 2-3 occasions when a receiver had separation but the ball was underthrown just enough to allow the DB to break it up. No turnovers on his part I don't believe. Still not convinced he fits this system. Would like to see them move the pocket for him against better teams.

The D-line is still shaky against the run. Radio said VMI had a hundred on the ground.

Kick coverage is still awful into the 4th game of the season. Against a decent team that costs the game.

Still some coaching screw ups which shouldn't be happening in the 4th game. Example. VMI had the ball around the Akron 20 maybe closer. With about 10-15 seconds on the play clock the D-coordinator decides to make a wholesale change. No way all those guys run that far and get positioned before the clock runs out. They had to burn a time out. I watched Ianello. He was practically running down the sideline yelling at the coach.

Noticed they had Wagner trying to blitz a lot. That was a little different. VMI seemed to pick him up most of the time though.

Seemed like Griggs had a pretty decent game against an undersized O-line. Wagner had a lot of tackles.

Somebody mentioned earlier that any win with this team is good. But,they have a game with an Eastern Michigan team that should be winnable. Even though its on the road,if the Zips can't beat a team that basically plays at their level then you have to wonder how much progress they have actually made. There are only 2-3 more realistically 'winnable' games on the schedule after EMU. The players know what time it is. They know they need a win against a MAC opponent. It would be a huge confidence boost.

[Doug Snyder]

Frenchy mentioned this is the first time in history that the Zips have had a 150 yard rusher and 150 yard receiver.

That is hard to believe. Did he mention anything about QB knock downs at the line yesterday?

I had an unofficial count of 15 between the two teams.

How many do you have for Moore...knocked down or deflected??

I don't believe his size is too much a disadvantage...but he must learn to better use the passing lanes. If Drew Brees could do it (he is smaller), than I am sure Moore can do it at a lowere competion level.

[Dr Z]

I had 7 knock downs for Moore, but I didn't see every play.

Drew Brees has so many positives going for him that make him an exceptional qb. He has great accuracy, a great feel for the game, awesome pocket presence, the ability to read a defense, he can look off defenders, is able to audible into proper plays, and has a big arm. He is not successful because he is small, he is successful despite being small. Can Moore be successful being small...sure. Is his ability that great that he will?

[GP1]

The Wildcat isn't much of a threat unless Chisholm or whomever shows as a threat to throw occasionally.

Good post Lee.

The Wildcat is so 2008 it isn't even funny. I can't believe we even try it because it doesn't shock anyone the way it has in the past.

Good win for the Zips. I don't know how much confidence it provides, but it has to provide some. Sympathy for the players hasn't always been my strong hand, but my God, these kids needed to feel what it is like to win a game before the last game of the season.

I watched EMU yesterday before I went to the App State game (BTW parking handwringers, it is $25 to park at an App State game and you have to walk about a mile from public parking to the stadium). EMU is bad.....Unfortunately, we may be worse. We'll see how it all shakes out. Again, good job Zips.

[Doug Snyder]

I had 7 knock downs for Moore, but I didn't see every play.

Drew Brees has so many positives going for him that make him an exceptional qb. He has great accuracy, a great feel for the game, awesome pocket presence, the ability to read a defense, he can look off defenders, is able to audible into proper plays, and has a big arm. He is not successful because he is small, he is successful despite being small. Can Moore be successful being small...sure. Is his ability that great that he will?

I did not mean to imply that he was as talented as Brees. My comparison was purely for ...uh...logistical or technical reasons. Brees is shorter and the defensive linemen bigger. If Brees could make those throws...Moore should be able to as well.

Having said that....I do see some similarities to Brees. I have always been a Brees fan and was at the Wisconsin game when he leveled a linebacker on a reverse play. He got a standing ovation from the home Wisconsin fans for his fearless play. I see some of that in Moore...and loved that he came back and got a block on a defensive linemen on a broken play.

Some people do not look beyond summary statistics to make judgments. The facts are these: 13-28 with 3 TDs and no Ints. 8 of those receptions went to Sconiers leading the same people to believe that he was only throwing to Sconiers. Here are the more detailed facts:

Attempts/Completions

1. Sconiers 8-11 (2 TD)

2. Price 0-6

3. Russell 1-2

4. Dillard 2-2 (1 TD)

5. Ladrach 1-1

6. Chisolm 1-1

7. Knocked down at line 5

Additionally, 2 balls were tipped at the line of scrimmage ...I do not know who they were intended for but they had to be to Sconiers, Price or Russell....probably Price.

Considering that he never connected with Price....he obviously did not ignore him. Only an idiot would argue he threw Price uncatchable balls intentionally.

If you remove the balls batted down at the line of scrimmage.... Moore was 13-23. If you exclude the 2 tipped balls he was 13-21. If you exclude the ball he threw away intentionally he was 13-20. He was 13-20 of balls thrown that cleared the line of scrimmage and were intended for a target. AND...Price ran the wrong route on one play and the ball was 15-20 yards from any receiver. AND a few others were catchable. The point is....he made good decisions and I only saw one poor throw. He threw a few balls in tight coverage that only the intended receiver could have caught...a very mature play. There were 2 balls slightly underthrown. One by about few feet to a yard and the other by a few yards. Given that the throws were 40-45 yards down field, I would to say it was not as bad as it looked. Price missed the entire preseason and may not have the same chemistry with Moore as the others. The fact that he under threw may be just that...unfamiliar with the speed and route running of the intended target. Hopefully he and Price develop more chemistry...we could have a really good passing game if they do. Moore MUST get better at finding passing lanes though. I doubt that has ever been an issue before now.

[Dave in Green]

Unfortunately, I had to miss seeing this game with my own eyes due to being out of town. So I first took a look at the final stats before visiting ZN.O. Some of the stats were pretty impressive. The Zips running up 534 yards total offense while holding VMI to 239 certainly caught my eye, as did the Zips' dominating lead in first downs (29-12) and time of possession (37:44-22:16). I also noticed a few negatives, such as Moore's not-so-hot passing percentage.

Coming to ZN.O to see what people who witnessed the game were saying, I guess I shouldn't have been surprised at the focus on negative stats and failure to mention many of the above-mentioned good stats here. If you focus only on the negative or only on the positive, that's all you're likely to see. If you try to look at both the good and bad, you'll tend to see both. Lots of people here are focused on the negative and appear not to want to acknowledge anything positive. At least a few fans here mentioned some good along with the bad.

Stats and firsthand impressions aside, what's the real overall meaning of this game? Well, for one, it means that the Zips are capable of soundly defeating an FCS team, which they couldn't do last season. That's at least a baby step forward. It's certainly more than the Zips' loudest critics expected -- the ones who flatly predicted that the Zips would lose this game or, at best, barely squeak out a narrow win.

But beating an FCS team reaches only the minimum standard for being an FBS team. To take a full step forward, the Zips are going to have to beat at least a couple of MAC teams. To be assured of accomplishing that, they're probably going to have to play even better than they did against VMI. Some are predicting that's not possible, while the rest of us at least think there's a chance.

That's about all I can conclude from reading about the game rather than seeing it in person.

[skip-zip]

Unfortunately, I had to miss seeing this game with my own eyes due to being out of town. So I first took a look at the final stats before visiting ZN.O. Some of the stats were pretty impressive. The Zips running up 534 yards total offense while holding VMI to 239 certainly caught my eye, as did the Zips' dominating lead in first downs (29-12) and time of possession (37:44-22:16). I also noticed a few negatives, such as Moore's not-so-hot passing percentage.

Coming to ZN.O to see what people who witnessed the game were saying, I guess I shouldn't have been surprised at the focus on negative stats and failure to mention many of the above-mentioned good stats here. If you focus only on the negative or only on the positive, that's all you're likely to see. If you try to look at both the good and bad, you'll tend to see both. Lots of people here are focused on the negative and appear not to want to acknowledge anything positive. At least a few fans here mentioned some good along with the bad.

Stats and firsthand impressions aside, what's the real overall meaning of this game? Well, for one, it means that the Zips are capable of soundly defeating an FCS team, which they couldn't do last season. That's at least a baby step forward. It's certainly more than the Zips' loudest critics expected -- the ones who flatly predicted that the Zips would lose this game or, at best, barely squeak out a narrow win.

But beating an FCS team reaches only the minimum standard for being an FBS team. To take a full step forward, the Zips are going to have to beat at least a couple of MAC teams. To be assured of accomplishing that, they're probably going to have to play even better than they did against VMI. Some are predicting that's not possible, while the rest of us at least think there's a chance.

That's about all I can conclude from reading about the game rather than seeing it in person.

I noticed it too. And I probably would have complained about it, if it wasn't for the fact that, regardless of the "not-so-hot" percentage, his stat line produces a fantastic 148 QB rating. Maybe he's living up to the previews that he's a playmaker, but may lack consistency. We'll see how that plays out over the course of the season.

This all made me think about how the bar really has been lowered. Does anyone realize that we didn't have a passer with a game over 200 yards all of last year? And that our starter last year ended up with a 95 rating for the season? And that, despite the 3 tough games to open, and all of the new personnel, that Moore still has a 110 QB rating at this point?

Syracuse, Kentucky, Indiana and Gardner Webb doesn't come close to what we faced in that same stretch this year.

You're right Dave. I think I will let my complaining go for a week, and enjoy the win a litle bit longer. It certainly doesn't get me over-excited, but it puts us ahead of where we were at this point last year, with a much harder schedule.

[Buckzip]

Seeing how people are constantly picking on Moore, do any of you remember 1st year starters being All Americans at QB?

This kid is a sophomore in his first year as a starter. Give him some time to learn and get experience.

He is on a terrible team with little talent around him.

I'm not saying he is going to be great, but you guys act like is a returning 3 year starter sometimes. Geez.

[Dave in Green]

@skip-zip, thanks for pointing out QB rating. I had only been looking at team stats and not individual stats.

Connecting on only 13 of 28 passes while generating a QB efficiency rating of 148 is actually pretty unusual and impressive. It means that every other aspect of Moore's performance was high, and overall performance (efficiency) is the best measure of a QB.

I think the way to look at it is that individual player performance in any specific area is secondary to that player's overall performance, overall individual performance is secondary to overall team performance, and overall team performance is secondary to game results.

In other words, as long as our team is oustscoring the other team by at least 1 point, we don't need any other steenkin' stats.

[K92]

Skip, you are so right about this year's non-conference schedule being a lot tougher than last. Hopefully these early struggles will pay off in the MAC portion of the schedule. It appears that most of the rest of the MAC has gotten better from last year, but I would hope, AT LEAST, to see the Zips contend for wins against EMU, CMU & Can't.

[skip-zip]

Skip, you are so right about this year's non-conference schedule being a lot tougher than last. Hopefully these early struggles will pay off in the MAC portion of the schedule. It appears that most of the rest of the MAC has gotten better from last year, but I would hope, AT LEAST, to see the Zips contend for wins against EMU, CMU & Can't.

That's what I'm hoping for. That we have at least improved ourselves enough to win some of the games that we can win. That would be a good start, even if some of the better teams still remind us that we are far from a title contender.

[MDZip]

Skip, you are so right about this year's non-conference schedule being a lot tougher than last. Hopefully these early struggles will pay off in the MAC portion of the schedule. It appears that most of the rest of the MAC has gotten better from last year, but I would hope, AT LEAST, to see the Zips contend for wins against EMU, CMU & Can't.

Darn well better be competitive against Buffalo too.

[Dr Z]

Some people do not look beyond summary statistics to make judgments.

Here is my "beyond statistical judgment" of the day. The passes that I witnessed Saturday that were not close to being catchable were the ones thrown to the sideline. If it was 10 yard comeback, or a 30 yard fly, the results were the same. The catchable balls were thrown to the middle of the field. Price dropped one of those. Next time somebody is at the game watch where LR8 is making his completions. He needs to work hard at being able to spread the field with his completions because if I were creating a defensive scheme against him, it would be on that premise. I would like to see some halfback and wide receiver screens to help him with this too. Where was his best receiver Saturday?

[g-mann17]

Some people do not look beyond summary statistics to make judgments.

Here is my "beyond statistical judgment" of the day. The passes that I witnessed Saturday that were not close to being catchable were the ones thrown to the sideline. If it was 10 yard comeback, or a 30 yard fly, the results were the same. The catchable balls were thrown to the middle of the field. Price dropped one of those. Next time somebody is at the game watch where LR8 is making his completions. He needs to work hard at being able to spread the field with his completions because if I were creating a defensive scheme against him, it would be on that premise. I would like to see some halfback and wide receiver screens to help him with this too. Where was his best receiver Saturday?

Suel was out (as reported by the paper) with a lower back injury. The way French talked they don't know how bad it will be yet.

Price has to step up period. He has to know his routes, and he has to make the catches. I am waiting for the moment when Williams finally gets his hands on the ball on offense and just as a returner.

[skip-zip]

Some people do not look beyond summary statistics to make judgments.

Here is my "beyond statistical judgment" of the day. The passes that I witnessed Saturday that were not close to being catchable were the ones thrown to the sideline. If it was 10 yard comeback, or a 30 yard fly, the results were the same. The catchable balls were thrown to the middle of the field. Price dropped one of those. Next time somebody is at the game watch where LR8 is making his completions. He needs to work hard at being able to spread the field with his completions because if I were creating a defensive scheme against him, it would be on that premise. I would like to see some halfback and wide receiver screens to help him with this too. Where was his best receiver Saturday?

That's funny. If I read certain posts on here, I might be persuaded to believe that only Nicely's passes are dropped, if I wasn't watching the games myself.

At least the drops were not on the epidemic level that they were against Temple. I was hoping we couldn't get any worse than that.

I had forgotten all about Suel being out. That makes our passing game results on Saturday even a little more impressive. I just hope it's the beginning of a move forward, and not a pinnacle.

[Dr Z]

That makes our passing game results on Saturday even a little more impressive.

Impressive? Nah. I could buy "tolerable" or even maybe even"hopeful", but considering the competition, "impressive" is not the a word I was use to describe any phase of the Zips game I watched on Saturday. ESPECIALLY on those kickoffs.

I sure hope Suel's injury is not serious, our passing game is better with him in there IMO.

[skip-zip]

That makes our passing game results on Saturday even a little more impressive.

Impressive? Nah. I could buy "tolerable" or even maybe even"hopeful", but considering the competition, "impressive" is not the a word I was use to describe any phase of the Zips game I watched on Saturday. ESPECIALLY on those kickoffs.

I sure hope Suel's injury is not serious, our passing game is better with him in there IMO.

It was a 148 rating, and he was our first QB with a 200+ yard passing game in quite a long time, and he was missing a key receiver. I'm well aware of the competition. See my previous comments about how the bar has been lowered.

The kickoffs? Good grief. Can anyone figure out why even our "deep kicks" early in the game were only reaching about the 20 yard line?

[Dave in Green]

For a little perspective on Moore's 148.69 (rounded to 148.7) QB efficiency rating against VMI, that single game performance would rank 35th in the country against the season averages to date of all other FBS QBs:

32. Landry Jones, Oklahoma, 149.5

33. Matt Barkley, USC, 149.0

34. Barrett Trotter, Auburn, 148.7

**. Clayton Moore, Akron, 148.7 (VMI game only)

35. John Brantley, Florida, 148.1

36. Kirk Cousins, Michigan State, 147.9

Moore's season average efficiency rating of 110.8 currently ranks him #102 of 117 FBS QBs rated. Obviously his first three FBS games against tough competition dragged him way down, especially the 53.35 against tOSU.

In order to reach the 50th percentile point of all 117 rated QBs, Moore would need to continue averaging efficiency ratings in the mid-140s for the remaining games on the schedule.

By the way, Zach Stoudt of Mississippi, a QB who some Zips fans seemed to prefer over Moore, is currently ranked #116 of 117 with a season average QB efficiency rating of 86.9.

[johnnyzip84]

Since we're looking at stats post-VMI, #44 is now #23 nationally in rushing yards, with a nice 5.3 yards/carry average to boot. Speaking of Jawon, I'm trying to come up with a catchy nickname for him. How about "the A-Train"?

[Doug Snyder]

Since we're looking at stats post-VMI, #44 is now #23 nationally in rushing yards, with a nice 5.3 yards/carry average to boot. Speaking of Jawon, I'm trying to come up with a catchy nickname for him. How about "the A-Train"?

More like "J Train". But he does not run like a train.... he has great peripheral vision and is a slasher. Or how about something from the Chisholm Trail??.

[johnnyzip84]

Since we're looking at stats post-VMI, #44 is now #23 nationally in rushing yards, with a nice 5.3 yards/carry average to boot. Speaking of Jawon, I'm trying to come up with a catchy nickname for him. How about "the A-Train"?

More like "J Train". But he does not run like a train.... he has great peripheral vision and is a slasher. Or how about something from the Chisholm Trail??.

I was playing off of the old, jazz standard "Take the A Train", with the A being for Akron. But like the saying goes, if you have to explain it then it probably sucks (I took some liberty with the last part).