Whence the Football Program?

[GoZips]

Disagree. There are something like 500 student athletes @ UA. 400? .. and 85 of them are FB players. Less than 25% of the Athletic Department.

The AD is responsible for a Department that includes much more than Football. While his choice of a FB coach hasn't generated a quick turnaround, it isn't the only lens through which an AD's tenure should be judged.

The only AD with a team National Championship on his watch. Multiple other MAC titles. Highest finish ever in Directors Cup, Efficiency Cup .. and Department Academic standing is at an all time high. Multiple facility improvements. Vast improvements in media and fan resources. All of these things at TW's direction.

I get that a single decision by TW has many of us frustrated. But it's not the only job he has to do. And with most of them, he is excelling.

Regardless, the FB ship is starting to turn. Slowly, but it is.

B) B)

Go Zips!

The football program is not starting to turn.

What you see a bad list and taking on water The ship is nearly sunk.

You do not save the ship by cutting another hole in in it to let out the water.

[Doug Snyder]

Disagree. There are something like 500 student athletes @ UA. 400? .. and 85 of them are FB players. Less than 25% of the Athletic Department.

The AD is responsible for a Department that includes much more than Football. While his choice of a FB coach hasn't generated a quick turnaround, it isn't the only lens through which an AD's tenure should be judged.

The only AD with a team National Championship on his watch. Multiple other MAC titles. Highest finish ever in Directors Cup, Efficiency Cup .. and Department Academic standing is at an all time high. Multiple facility improvements. Vast improvements in media and fan resources. All of these things at TW's direction.

I get that a single decision by TW has many of us frustrated. But it's not the only job he has to do. And with most of them, he is excelling.

Regardless, the FB ship is starting to turn. Slowly, but it is.

B) B)

Go Zips!

+1

But for me....this last loss was disheartening. There was improvement but other areas regressed. Right now...it seems like that kids game where a ground hog head keeps popping up to be wacked down. I really thought the D-Line was better than it showed Saturday and was a strength of the team. And the mental mistakes were too numerous to overcome. This was a game where we could gauge our improvement as they were close to us in talent. Well...we now know we are are not as far along as some would have hoped and we have a ways to go...but we are young. The good thing is that we did not quit. Can we get there with ICoach?? It is looking more doubtful. I will continue to support the team and coach through this year. But I will no longer defend him from the negative hyenas on this forum.

[you am i]

Disagree. There are something like 500 student athletes @ UA. 400? .. and 85 of them are FB players. Less than 25% of the Athletic Department.

The AD is responsible for a Department that includes much more than Football. While his choice of a FB coach hasn't generated a quick turnaround, it isn't the only lens through which an AD's tenure should be judged.

The only AD with a team National Championship on his watch. Multiple other MAC titles. Highest finish ever in Directors Cup, Efficiency Cup .. and Department Academic standing is at an all time high. Multiple facility improvements. Vast improvements in media and fan resources. All of these things at TW's direction.

I get that a single decision by TW has many of us frustrated. But it's not the only job he has to do. And with most of them, he is excelling.

Regardless, the FB ship is starting to turn. Slowly, but it is.

B) B)

Go Zips!

+1

But for me....this last loss was disheartening. There was improvement but other areas regressed. Right now...it seems like that kids game where a ground hog head keeps popping up to be wacked down. I really thought the D-Line was better than it showed Saturday and was a strength of the team. And the mental mistakes were too numerous to overcome. This was a game where we could gauge our improvement as they were close to us in talent. Well...we now know were are not as far along as some would have hoped and we have a ways to go...but we are young. The good thing is that we did not quit. Can we get there with ICoach?? It is looking more doubtful. I will continue to support the team and coach through this year. But I will no longer defend him from the negative hyenas on this forum.

Negative hyenas? Right now, Akron is the worst football team in DI. Don't blame the fans for being negative. They are lucky they have any fans left who care.

[Doug Snyder]

@ You and I

It is every fans right to be negative. But there are some who are nagative, vocal and have tried to create a movement to oust the coach prior to last year and this year. Every attempt was made to poison the debate. They "hovered" around the program looking for an opportuinty to pounce. I don't know...I think the anology fits.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Some folks who used to sit near us at Zips basketball games gave up their season tickets and quit coming to games last season. They expressed extreme disappointment that Zeke Marshall didn't dominate the MAC and earn Player of the Year in his freshman season as they expected from a 7-foot player in the MAC.

Point is, not all 7-footers are at the same developmental level early in their college basketball careers, and the same applies to college football coaches early in their head coaching careers. Some develop fast, some develop slowly, and some never develop much at all.

Zeke has developed a little slower than we might have hoped, but he did show fair development by the end of his sophomore season. Much more is expected of him in his third season.

At this point, Ianello's development appears to be pretty slow. But being head coach of a football team is one of the most complex and challenging jobs in sports.

So while I'm disappointed like everyone else at the results to date, I continue to support the concept of giving Ianello a fair and reasonable opportunity to demonstrate if he can develop into a winning head football coach at UA.

Fair and reasonable to me is a minimum of two full seasons and a maximum of three full seasons.

He must show at least some progress by the end of this season, and if he does, next season is make or break time.

18 year olds have upside. Everything about them changes from 18 - 22.

45 year olds are completely different. Not much changes from 45 to 49. Maybe the belt size goes up. And the hair line goe back. That's about it.

I agree with you that Ianello deserves the remainer of this season to show some significant progress. But I'm not going to sit on my thumb and pretend what's happening ever Saturday isn't really happening.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Negative hyenas? Right now, Akron is the worst football team in DI. Don't blame the fans for being negative. They are lucky they have any fans left who care.

+1

At least a hyena can laugh. I don't see much funny about Saturday afternoons in Akron.

I'll be positive - Here's to another 30+ point loss on Saturday.

[Dave in Green]

18 year olds have upside. Everything about them changes from 18 - 22.

45 year olds are completely different. Not much changes from 45 to 49. Maybe the belt size goes up. And the hair line goe back. That's about it.

I agree with you that Ianello deserves the remainer of this season to show some significant progress. But I'm not going to sit on my thumb and pretend what's happening ever Saturday isn't really happening.

CK, I don't think you mean to imply that older people don't continue to learn and improve at whatever it is they do. I think it's safe to say that the best experienced college football head coaches have all significantly improved over their first couple of seasons. It's also true that some rookie head coaches never improve enough to make a career of it, and end up moving back into the role of assistants.

But I agree with you that all fans should feel free to express their disappointment in a lack of significant improvement in game results. Even Ianello's most ardent supporters will have to admit that it's possible that he's not cut out to be a head coach.

Of course, Doug Snyder is also correct that a few people wrote off Ianello the day he was announced and started campaigning against him without giving him any chance to prove himself.

That's just the nature of sports and sports fans. Nothing anyone says here is going to change that.

[ZachTheZip]

Of course, Doug Snyder is also correct that a few people wrote off Ianello the day he was announced and started campaigning against him without giving him any chance to prove himself.

Perhaps they did that because it was blindingly obvious to them what it took a 2-15 record and countless embarrassments for others to see.

[zipinnc]

I have to say that this is one of the most thoughtful conversations on the state of zips athletics that I've seen on this board. There seem to be two schools of thought on TW and the state of "the program", athletics that is. One is that TW is improving the athletic department as a whole, and that's a good start. Second is that he totally botched the hiring of a football coach and needs to be judged soley on that decision. I'm in the middle. Alot of good things have happened under TW's tenure, but the football program is bad. I think overall 72 Roo says it best, "He's our coach and this is our team. I want them both to do well." If you don't feel this way, are you a true fan?

[Big Zip]

I promise you if someone is posting on this board they want the football team to play well and for Ianello to succeed. To question anyone from as small of a fan base as we have that is as big a fan as the people on this board makes me question those people. The typical Ianello skeptic (me included) saw this hire and could not for the life of us understand what it was that made TW hire him outside of him being his friend. He was coming off a disaster in Notre Dame that got the head coach fired. He was a wide receivers coach and was simply being sold to us an amazing recruiter. I think I said at the time a monkey could recruit to Notre Dame...c'mon how freaking hard is it to recruit to Notre Dame. He only had to walk into a house talk about the Notre Dame tradition and then have the head coach flash his Super Bowl rings. Funny thing about those "great" recruits they still haven't seemed to win a damn thing at Notre Dame. Perhaps the recruits weren't that good after all.

All of that is water under the bridge and we now get to judge him on his progress....which has been non-existent. I don't like the way he carries himself on the sideline -- he always appears to be moping and rarely confident. I can't stand his offense and question his ability overall after losing to teams like Gardner Webb. I recently heard from a reliable source that he doesn't let his coach's coach and if he would stop micromanaging he might be able to turn this thing around. Maybe he'll figure that out. As much as I'd love to see him sent packing at the break I'm afraid we're stuck with him for next year. I hope in that time a light bulb goes on and the team blows me away.

TW has done pretty much everything you can expect from him and done it pretty well...with the exception of the biggest thing in his Athletic Department. Lets put it this way i have to believe football progress needs to be approximately 50% of his job evaluation, soccer and basketball probably make up another 40% and the rest is 10%. I'm sorry if that sounds tough, but football is the most expensive part (by far) of your athletic department and the University has invested the most mone in it. We are not getting good return on value. So he can knock it out of the park in all other aspects of his job, but has failed so miserably with this hire I can't imagine he not receiving a did not meet expectations.

[Zip Watcher]

I think overall 72 Roo says it best, "He's our coach and this is our team. I want them both to do well."

+1

[ZachTheZip]

If you don't feel this way, are you a true fan?

A true fan wants what's best for his team. Right now, what's best for the team is a new coach.

Ianello is already doing as well as he possibly can. He won't get better over time. This is it. It's where we're at and where we'll remain if we keep him.

[GP1]

Disagree. There are something like 500 student athletes @ UA. 400? .. and 85 of them are FB players. Less than 25% of the Athletic Department.

Does anyone know, of the dollar amount the University gives out in athletic scholarships, what percent of that money goes to football? My guess is it is well over 50%. When we know that, it may add some clarity to this debate and then we can have a real debate.

[GP1]

Good grief. Can anyone other than me look at the state of college athletics and realize TW has horribly missed at hiring a new football coach...the most important sport in college athletics. Am I the only one with a television? He just didn't swing and miss, he was standing in the batters box and swung at a pitch thrown into right field.

I am with you 100%.

Wistercill was brought to UA for one reason - to get the football program on track. His hand-selected coach is losing around 90% of his football games after 1.5 seasons.

If he continues to lose, and the football stadium remains empty, TW has failed.

And there are varying degrees of failure. A 65% is almost a D-. TW is no where near a D- right now.

I'm glad I'm not alone. Looking back, it was a pretty damn good post for a guy closing out a night in Charleston.

[UA Fan]

I would guess he's here at least thru next year regardless. The problem you have at an Akron is if you fire a coach too soon it may scare away other quality candidates from the hiring pool...that's been openly talked about before. Although GF, LO & JDB were fired, they each had plenty of time with at least 1 contract extension. That and the new facilities led to the excellent pool of candidates we had this time around but failed to capitalize on.

[UAZipster0305]

I think overall 72 Roo says it best, "He's our coach and this is our team. I want them both to do well."

+1

+2.

I said prior to the season when making my dire prediction that I would love to eat crow and have iCoach succeed. Then and now, I don't see it happening presently or anytime in the future.

As for TW, I think the football coach hiring has been his only mistake. I've described in several other posts what a solid job he's done. I see him keeping his job, but the next football coach will be recommended by a consultant group and approved by President Proenza. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. President Proenza is no fool.

[tbozeglav]

I used to think TW needed to be shown the door with this hire, but after this thread I can concede that in all other aspects of the University's athletics, he's done a fantastic job. Granted he's inherited a few very fortunate situations (Porter and the soccer team and KD) along with some up-and-coming programs, but from what I've seen he's been able to improve athletics all around, which a core fundamental of his job. Even if he did inherit the fortunate situations, it's still on him to capitalize on them and continue the progress they've already had. In that respect he's excelled.

In the aspect of the most visible area of the University's athletics (literally via our mostly-empty $60mil stadium and figuratively through the negative fan support of the team), he's utterly failed. iCoach has proven thus far to be a terrible move on his part. Its very difficult to defend a man who's posted a 2-15 record in his tenure in addition to showing next to no progress on the field to improve on that record. Even in JD Brookhart's dark days, he was still competitive and winning more games. iCoach just seems like a chicken with his head cut off out there...

Point is... TW will be judged FIRST on football, THEN on everything else. Thats just how things go in collegiate athletics. Football is the cashcow where most of the money is spent and comes in and his grading is based accordingly. Right now, I'd give TW a C overall... Had the football hire gone better and resulted in at least a mediocre team that showed improvement, I'd give him a B-... but a C is the best I can give him right now...

[ZachTheZip]

Assuming that every sport uses their full scholarship allotment (except football where we know we are under), the athletic department is responsible for the following:

-Men's sports-

Baseball: 11.7

Basketball: 13

Cross Country/Track & Field: 12.6

Football: 79

Golf: 4.5

Rifle (co-ed but classified by the NCAA as a men's sport): 3.6

Soccer: 9.9

Total: 134.3

-Women's sports-

Basketball: 15

Cross Country/Track & Field: 18

Golf: 6

Soccer: 14

Softball: 12

Swimming & Diving: 14

Tennis: 12

Volleyball: 12

Total: 103

All together that's 237.3 scholarships. It's probably less, with some men's sports being under-funded because of Title IX. You end up with the scholarships costing about $2,716,002.91 per year, assuming that in-state and out-of-state athletes are split 50/50. Add in room and board, books, and stuff like that and it probably ends up somewhere between $6m and $8m.

About 1/3rd of the money goes toward football scholarships.

[UAZipster0305]

Assuming that every sport uses their full scholarship allotment (except football where we know we are under), the athletic department is responsible for the following:

-Men's sports-

Baseball: 11.7

Basketball: 13

Cross Country/Track & Field: 12.6

Football: 79

Golf: 4.5

Rifle (co-ed but classified by the NCAA as a men's sport): 3.6

Soccer: 9.9

Total: 134.3

-Women's sports-

Basketball: 15

Cross Country/Track & Field: 18

Golf: 6

Soccer: 14

Softball: 12

Swimming & Diving: 14

Tennis: 12

Volleyball: 12

Total: 103

All together that's 237.3 scholarships. It's probably less, with some men's sports being under-funded because of Title IX. You end up with the scholarships costing about $2,716,002.91 per year, assuming that in-state and out-of-state athletes are split 50/50. Add in room and board, books, and stuff like that and it probably ends up somewhere between $6m and $8m.

About 1/3rd of the money goes toward football scholarships.

Did someone coming out of the plasma center tell you this or do you have legit references?

Title IX prevents an imbalance between male and female scholarship numbers.

[Zipsrifle]

Assuming that every sport uses their full scholarship allotment (except football where we know we are under), the athletic department is responsible for the following:

-Men's sports-

Baseball: 11.7

Basketball: 13

Cross Country/Track & Field: 12.6

Football: 79

Golf: 4.5

Rifle (co-ed but classified by the NCAA as a men's sport): 3.6

Soccer: 9.9

Total: 134.3

-Women's sports-

Basketball: 15

Cross Country/Track & Field: 18

Golf: 6

Soccer: 14

Softball: 12

Swimming & Diving: 14

Tennis: 12

Volleyball: 12

Total: 103

All together that's 237.3 scholarships. It's probably less, with some men's sports being under-funded because of Title IX. You end up with the scholarships costing about $2,716,002.91 per year, assuming that in-state and out-of-state athletes are split 50/50. Add in room and board, books, and stuff like that and it probably ends up somewhere between $6m and $8m.

About 1/3rd of the money goes toward football scholarships.

I think all the Rifle scholarships are for female athletes. I could be wrong, but that is the way it was back in the day.

[ZachTheZip]

Assuming that every sport uses their full scholarship allotment (except football where we know we are under), the athletic department is responsible for the following:

-Men's sports-

Baseball: 11.7

Basketball: 13

Cross Country/Track & Field: 12.6

Football: 79

Golf: 4.5

Rifle (co-ed but classified by the NCAA as a men's sport): 3.6

Soccer: 9.9

Total: 134.3

-Women's sports-

Basketball: 15

Cross Country/Track & Field: 18

Golf: 6

Soccer: 14

Softball: 12

Swimming & Diving: 14

Tennis: 12

Volleyball: 12

Total: 103

All together that's 237.3 scholarships. It's probably less, with some men's sports being under-funded because of Title IX. You end up with the scholarships costing about $2,716,002.91 per year, assuming that in-state and out-of-state athletes are split 50/50. Add in room and board, books, and stuff like that and it probably ends up somewhere between $6m and $8m.

About 1/3rd of the money goes toward football scholarships.

Did someone coming out of the plasma center tell you this or do you have legit references?

Title IX prevents an imbalance between male and female scholarship numbers.

It's pretty easy to look up the NCAA scholarship limits for each sport. I just grabbed them, added them up, and multiplied them by an average of the in-state and out-of-state tuitions fo get the $2.7m number. But you have to remember that not all sports get full scholarships to everyone, and so there are significantly more athletes than scholarships. But in terms of scholarship money, football gets about 1/3rd.

And like I said, we probably offer less scholarships than the max for each sport to maintain Title IX, so the actual numbers are probably lower. But I don't have those numbers to work with.

[Zipsrifle]

For me, I have made it pretty black and white. Rob needs to win 4 games this year.

I know Ron English has had a few tough years before getting the EMU ship in the right direction, I try to keep this in mind. There have been a few pleasant surprises, but overall, I don't see much improvement. At this point, I have to say, I'm pretty discouraged. Granted this is from someone who doesn't have a deep football background but week after week I see the same stuff that doesn't seem to work. I also agree that TW was brought in for one reason, and that was to fill the stadium. Outside of football, he has done a great job, but I don't believe that was the main goal. I'm going to stick behind these guys until the end of the season. I believe that Rob has at least one more year regardless of what happens. I don't want to be stuck rebuilding for two more years but at some point you need to realize when things just aren't working and make a change. I REALLY do hope Rob succeeds. To me that means he is building a very sound football PROGRAM that will be ready to win in the MAC over the long term. Time will tell.

[GoZips]

Hate to burst people's "happy bubbles", BUT, every season Ianello is the HC it

will take at least two years to undo the damage he is inflicting.

People who support Ianello are of the same vein as those who preach that all

that is wrong with the country's economy is that there just has not been enough

government interference with it.

Baloney, I'd fire Ianello Monday morning if I had my way. He is a joke and an

embarrassment. He stumbled coming out of the gate and continues to stumble.

How many times do you need to get hit in the face to realize you are getting

whomped on?

[akzipper]

Ianello needs to go...

I hate to bring this up again, but I just read an article about Big East expansion. You know what schools they talked about? UCF, Temple, Navy, Army, Air Force and here's the real kicker....SMU. Now I'm not trying to be a homer but as a school, facilities, academics, and winning we are better than all of them except maybe Temple. But you know what, our football program will keep us in the MAC until it ultimately dissolves forcing us to drop back to FCS and play garbage teams like VMI and YSU every week. Now I don't see us putting 300 million into a program to watch it play against glorified high schools, but Ianello will make that happen. Now let me ask, how many schools will deal with a coach that can only win 2 games...in two years? You think OSU, Cincy, or even Can't would deal with that? Remember Rod Marinelli got fired in Detroit after 1 0-16 season? Eric Mangini got fired in Cleveland after 2 seasons and you know how many games he won 10!! are you kidding? we're giving a guy this much time after only being able to win 2 games and showing absolutely no improvement. He couldn't even beat EMU and Garnder Webb!!!

[tbozeglav]

Ianello needs to go...

I hate to bring this up again, but I just read an article about Big East expansion. You know what schools they talked about? UCF, Temple, Navy, Army, Air Force and here's the real kicker....SMU. Now I'm not trying to be a homer but as a school, facilities, academics, and winning we are better than all of them except maybe Temple. But you know what, our football program will keep us in the MAC until it ultimately dissolves forcing us to drop back to FCS and play garbage teams like VMI and YSU every week. Now I don't see us putting 300 million into a program to watch it play against glorified high schools, but Ianello will make that happen. Now let me ask, how many schools will deal with a coach that can only win 2 games...in two years? You think OSU, Cincy, or even Can't would deal with that? Remember Rod Marinelli got fired in Detroit after 1 0-16 season? Eric Mangini got fired in Cleveland after 2 seasons and you know how many games he won 10!! are you kidding? we're giving a guy this much time after only being able to win 2 games and showing absolutely no improvement. He couldn't even beat EMU and Garnder Webb!!!

The key issue is money. If we kick his butt to the curb tomorrow morning, that means we have to eat his remaining guaranteed contract in addition to paying the replacement AT THE SAME TIME. I will go out on a limb and say that we don't have the financial backing to do such a thing unless a wealthy alumnus/donor comes along to provide the backing needed. NFL teams and BCS teams have the luxury of large budgets and alumni bases to allow for such coaching changes... we aren't as fortunate.

You are right, however, that every day, week, month, and year we keep iCoach, the more likely (presently speaking) we are to being shown the door from D1 status. Last year I thought was just a fluke given how much of a change in program philosophy was happening. I accepted it and hoped for improvement. I have seen no such thing so far this year. Losing to Gardner Webb last year was embarassing, but failing to even score a TD, even in garbage time against overpowering BCS teams, is more of an embarrassment, especially considering they were in his second year of tenure when we had a FULL off season to prepare the team.

I will give iCoach till the end of this season to show me and other football fans there's reason to keep hope. That means a few more wins and at the very least competitive losses. Any less than that and I will be on the bandwagon to get his keester kicked out... if he posts another 1-11 season, I will call for any and all finances be used to get him out. The damage to our pocket books is far less than the damage he's doing to our school.

Yes, I am very frustrated with him and his "program".