THE BAND ARE TRAITORS

[zipseuph]

Zach, that entire post was ridiculous. I'm only going to make one point here, even though it doesn't even deserve that. You make the argument that every band, and school, in the nation is wrong for playing the away team fight song simply because you said so. You go on to say......

nobody cares. The only reason this whole thing hasn't been brought up before is that nobody cares enough to pay attention to the band during pregame

AND THEN GO ON TO SAY.....regarding the band.

The sense of self-worth there is through the roof.

I don't think the band is the ones in need of an ego check.

[Zips DM]

Oh also, everyone who has ever played or sung The Star Spangled Banner is ACTUALLY singing an old BRITTISH drinking song (To Anacreon in Heaven) so all of America is wrong, luckily I am the only person smart/brave enough to say anything...traitors!

[Dave in Green]

Zach, it would be really entertaining to hear your personal philosophy on cheerleaders.

[Zips DM]

don't encourage him

[Slinghaus]

"Peak performers concentrate on solving problems rather than placing blame for them."

[xxzipsfan21xx]

you honestly might be a little bit retarded. First off, the band plays EVERY opponents fight song at home as a sign of respect for the away team and those who traveled to see them. You hear it all over campus because they practice their show 3 times a week so that they can entertain the fans and even the people like you who disrespect them and look down on them. Just because the almighty Ohio state doesn't do it, doesn't mean no one should be allowed to.Second, the band is a bigger supporter of the football team and every Akron sports team then you'll ever hope to be. The band plays for the football team whether they are down 30 points or 3 points. they tell them players good job whenever they see them after the game irregardless of the outcome. And as for last week, they kept on playing till the end, just like the team did. Third, as far as basketball games goes, they play when they are supposed to play. They are in no way shape or form trying to "disrupt" your cheers. And, if maybe more then 10 rowdies came to the football games, you might get a bigger section. Maybe if more rowdies came to basketball games, you might get a bigger section. So quit accusing the band of stealing your thunder and get more support. If you don't like what the band does and them being "traitors" as you put it,then kindly pack your shit up, and transfer to somewhere else.

[tracier]

I'm sure the band cheered because:A. They were practicing at 7AM in the freezing cold while most everyone else was snug in bed.B. They stand the entire game and play almost constantly.C. From the time they step off, about 2 hours before the game, to when they march back, they are not allowed to eat.You might like to talk to a band member and just ask them how much of their free time marching band takes up.

[AKSportsFan]

I'm shocked that this is even a thread. What a joke trying to attack the band. Try get more than 10 rowdies to the games than worry about the 180 member band that cares a lot more than the 28,000 student body not in attendance. The band certainly isn't there for the masses that applaud them. How about we be constuctive. How about a bigger problem that you don't even know the words to YOUR school alma mater. Or, even any of the football players that dont know the words to their alma mater/fight song. You are barking up the wrong tree trying to say the band is in someway trying to root for K.e.n.t....Better yet try staying for the whole game yourself, but maybe drinking is just more important to you (Mass exodus about halftime most people saying hey lets do get wasted...) and somehow the band is a traitor for doing something they have done fore longer than you have been alive. This is incredible.

[cnin4256]

I remember at the third or fourth home game, I saw a group of rowdies wearing paper bags over their head... and we are the problem?

[ejcool27]

I'm shocked that this is even a thread. What a joke trying to attack the band. Try get more than 10 rowdies to the games than worry about the 180 member band that cares a lot more than the 28,000 student body not in attendance. The band certainly isn't there for the masses that applaud them. How about we be constuctive. How about a bigger problem that you don't even know the words to YOUR school alma mater. Or, even any of the football players that dont know the words to their alma mater/fight song. You are barking up the wrong tree trying to say the band is in someway trying to root for K.e.n.t....Better yet try staying for the whole game yourself, but maybe drinking is just more important to you (Mass exodus about halftime most people saying hey lets do get wasted...) and somehow the band is a traitor for doing something they have done fore longer than you have been alive. This is incredible.

+1

[Doug Snyder]

I'm shocked that this is even a thread. What a joke trying to attack the band. Try get more than 10 rowdies to the games than worry about the 180 member band that cares a lot more than the 28,000 student body not in attendance. The band certainly isn't there for the masses that applaud them. How about we be constuctive. How about a bigger problem that you don't even know the words to YOUR school alma mater. Or, even any of the football players that dont know the words to their alma mater/fight song. You are barking up the wrong tree trying to say the band is in someway trying to root for K.e.n.t....Better yet try staying for the whole game yourself, but maybe drinking is just more important to you (Mass exodus about halftime most people saying hey lets do get wasted...) and somehow the band is a traitor for doing something they have done fore longer than you have been alive. This is incredible.

+ 1If it were up to me....this thread accusing fellow Zips students/fans of being "traitors" would cease to exist. I just don't understand a Zip publicly calling another Zip student/fan/athlete derogatory names. How does that help??

[plowerman78]

[ZipsPicc]

Dear everybody, Okay, this needs to stop, because band supporters will never convince Pack_The_MAC that he’s wrong. (I assume it’s a “he” because women tend not to fight more logically). And Pack_The_MAC will never be right. TO Pack_The_ MAC: Let’s look at this argument from an educational P.O.V: (and I mean “argument” as in debate, not the childish name calling previously witnessed on this thread)To craft a successful argument we must assume that we have a logical and rational audience. Unfortunately for Pack_The_MAC (PTM from now on) he is presenting his argument to a logical and rational audience, so we weigh the merits and shortcomings of his statements, consider and evaluate their value and validity, and then form our opinions based on our knowledge of how the band works and the general spirit of the organization as a whole, and PTM’s perception of us. Since we’re logical and rational, we know that his argument is chock-full o’ logical fallacies, misinformation, failed arguments, biased opinions and awful grammar and punctuation. Shall we evaluate one by one? Oh yes please! 1. False or mistaken information: “I traveled to Ohio State and Cincinnati this year, neither band played the Blue and Gold.” A. I firmly believe that PTM was just mistaken, he might have missed pregame or might not have been paying attention. B. I don’t think he’s lying, just uninformed. C. There have been numerous videos of OSU’s band playing B&G posted on this thread, so I don’t think I need to site another source. D. Obviously PTM should have double checked his facts, because in this Appeal to Authority (because he personally was at the game to eye-witness B&G “not” getting played) he failed. Epically. E. He tried to establish credibility, and it was thwarted in a single YouTube search. Nice.Well, since now we all view PTM as an unreliable and not credible source, he’s now at a disadvantage for the rest of his claims. And we move on… 2. Straw Man: “The band has now drifted into traitor territory.” A. I do not believe that at the college level I need explain what Straw Man means. If you’ve taken English or Ethics, you’ve got the gist. However… B. Straw Man - an argument that is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. C. So, PTM is claiming that The Band Are Traitors; “Traitors” is a very strong descriptive noun to describe a group of students who show up to every football game (and stay for its entirety) to keep morale up in the stands and liven up the atmosphere of the stadium. D. I’m not going to deny that sometimes standing for 2 hours watching a losing game can be disappointing, but it doesn’t mean that I’m not screaming and cheering my heart out when our team is playing well. E. If it is true that Ohio’s Pride is a bunch of traitors because we play the opposing team’s fight song ONCE during pregame out of good sportsmanship, I would assume that you would apply this standard to all college marching bands. At which point you have entire conferences full of Benedict Arnold Marching Bands. Seriously? Talk about misrepresentation. This statement is a TEXTBOOK example of a Straw Man Argument. 3. To answer your question PMT: “This is just simply wrong. We are rivals! Why is our band playing their song?” A. I would love to hear you explanation of what is morally wrong with playing our rivals fight song, and is it really a simple explanation as you claim it is? B. Yes, we are rivals. Good job. You crafted an entire sentence without a logical fallacy, factual mistake, misspelling, or incorrect punctuation. Glad to see the Akron Advantage demonstrated. C. WE’RE PLAYING THEIR FIGHT SONG AS A GESTURE OF GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP. It’s no different than two football player saying “good luck” at the coin toss, or two boxers punching gloves before the bell rings. Playing the opposing teams fight song is just a salute to the away team fans that trekked to OUR stadium to pay OUR college money to sit in OUR stands to see their team play. I think thats simple enough. 4. “When Akron almost came back to win, the band could have cared less. In fact, when the band director said, "alright guys lets go home" They all cheered and celebrated a lot louder than they ever do during the game. They acted like nothing on the football field happened.” A. Cared less? Anybody who was sitting near the band would have heard us screaming our heads off for our team as it almost came back. We definitely care, and I honestly believe that if PTM logically and rationally looked back at the situation, he’d know he’s being less than fair with that statement. B. IF our director did say “alright guys, let’s go home” he had a damn good reason. Call time for that game was 6:30 AM. That means outside of Guzzetta in a parade block ready to step off on the way to the stadium. The sun was not up. I’m sure that if PTM knew that at the time he heard the “let’s go home” he would have been at least semi-empathetic that we’d all been up since 6AM, and we all were ready to get off our feet, get warm again, and take a nap. C. Nothing on the football field had happened? Really dude? For real? Go back to part 4A. 5. I’m not a member of Blue and Gold Brass (The AUDITIONED band that plays at basketball games) So I’m in no position to talk about it, because I know better than to try and argue about things I know nothing about. 6. “Stop playing the other teams fight song and stop acting like you give a damn about Akron sports” A. If you we’re a real Akron Zips fan, (or at least a logical and rational person) you’d support any organization that shows up to UA’s sporting events, because if Ohio’s Pride skipped a football game, well, attendance would be down about a third. B. We’re all students at the same college, rooting for the same teams, and supporting them in our own ways, there’s no need for this quarreling, because a united student body is a healthier than groups of students so eager to wage war on each other.To Pro-Band readers and commenters: PTM had a heat of the moment hissy fit in which he spoke before he evaluated his thoughts and opinions and checked facts. Everybody has a Sass-Attack once in a while, so let’s forgive him for that. Here’s the kicker: we provoked him into making further stupid statements. We’ve done this to Zach the Zip too, but I’m going to leave him out because I think he’s just a little trolling for an argument to get into. Anybody who’s ever backed a scared cat or raccoon into a corner knows that they get mean and do dumb things like hiss at you or bear their teeth and claws, all the while you’re thinking “stupid animal, I could punt you like a soccer ball, I’m 5 times your size” Well, we just backed PTM into a philosophical corner. We all called him out at once, and now he’s intimidated and doing dumb things like trying to argue back. Lucky for PTM, Zach the Zip has wandered into the same corner and now us logical and rational people have 2 scared cats to deal with. In reality we ought to just stop posting on this thread because no matter how much sense, how correct, accurate, and logical our statements are, we must realize that we’re not arguing (DEBATING) with a logical and rational opponent. Just because you tell the scared cats “Kitty, I’m only in my garage to get a rake, I’m not going to slaughter you” doesn’t mean they understand you because they’re not rational or logical beings. And they definitely are not going to stop yowling. PTM and ZTZ are that lovely brand of human that logic and rationality have no value against. I see no reason to try and argue with them. We have no reason to feel threatened, because thanks to our greater rational and logical practices, we could metaphorically “punt them like a soccer ball” in the real world, so why waste our time hiding behind our computers? If PTM or ZTZ would like to discuss these topics further, or would like some credible or reliable sources for their next feeble attempt to claw at the band from their corner, I would be happy to meet them and provide them any information they would like to try and misconstrue in their efforts to seem like an intelligent human being.Love, Leah

[zipseuph]

+1

[Doug Snyder]

+1

Someone in another thread talked about the clowns on ZNO. I think this song is more appropriate..."send in the Clowns......don't bother, they’re here".

[SideTableDrawer]

Jeez. Have some respect for people guys. This video is a promotional video for the band like any promotional video for our football team. If you watch it I think everyone would agree that we should all just get along!Thanks!

[Jms195]

So many things to cover...Let's start with football. First, just because everyone does it doesn't make something ok. DO NOT EVER play the opponents fight song. It's insulting to our own fans. It's not "good sportsmanship" because last I checked, horn-blowing isn't a sport. Throw around all the examples you want of other bands doing that. They're all wrong. I don't care how many other bands do it. In fact, nobody cares. The only reason this whole thing hasn't been brought up before is that nobody cares enough to pay attention to the band during pregame outside of the national anthem. Most fans just want you to play the national anthem to the game can get started, not sit through some performance that's intended to please only the opposing fans, and then play through the all the other songs in your book with some hokey announcer trying to teach the same fans that have been going to games for thirty years how to do the cheers. Just play the anthem and get off the field so the game can start. Don't use the lame excuse that other bands do this crap as a reason to give us a performance that only the band itself cares about. The sense of self-worth there is through the roof.Second, you're severely overestimating the amount of band members who care about football. If it wasn't a mandatory thing for their education, less than a third of them would still be doing it. Most don't give a crap about the Zips. When they cheer, it is in a mocking and sarcastic manner. They're doing it to act cool to the other band members and to fend off boredom, not to genuinely support the team.Now on to basketball.The band plays constantly. Every time there's even a hint of a time out, they start up. Not every band does this. I bet our band spends 50% more time playing than what the average MAC band plays at a basketball game. Cut out some of the songs, play a LOT softer, and the gameday experience will improve dramatically. When I have to yell to talk to my friends while sitting at the opposite side of the arena, you're too loud. If you want to stay down low, that's fine. Whatever makes you feel important; just play softer. And to say that the band hasn't affected which students sit where, you're wrong. There are over a dozen Rowdies that have moved to the other side because of the band's presence. They are continuously expanding, taking over more and more seats. The trombone section stretches two-thirds across the seating section. They're blowing their horns right into the back of our heads, and I left for the other side because I don't want to go deaf before my 30s. This could all be solved if the athletic department would go through with letting all the students sit all on one side of the court in the section behind the benches, and then you could give the band the entire south lower section to have as many trombones as they like. But until that happens, play softer. Also, it gets really annoying when the band takes to mocking the Rowdies attempts to do just about anything. Yelling like goons in the middle of the "you can't do that" chant makes you look like childish morons. Interrupting cheering at every opportunity so that you can keep to your schedule is obnoxious. You have no sense of the flow of the game or how to improve the environment to make it a more exciting place. Taking teh wind out of our sails does not make it more exciting. Intentionally rubbing it in every time you get boxes of pizza at half time knowing full well that the administration would never allow us to order our own is cruel. The band is made up of childish, self-important people who have no clue how they are negatively affecting their environment.

I was really going to try to stay out of this, but after reading the entire thread I do have a few things to say.I was a member of the marching band for 4 years, two at the Rubber bowl, and then two at Infocision. Also, I did all four years as a member of blue and gold brass for basketball. To your first statement- I honestly don't see how this can possibly be offensive! It is for respect! I'm sorry if you feel it is traitorous, but obviously you don't understand good sportsmanship. I'm also sorry that you don't feel the pride in traditions that most real fans do.To your second statement- This fact may surprise you, but most of the members in marching band aren't even required to be there. The only major that requires you to do marching band is Music Education, and there really aren't that many!!! These other students WANT to be there and volunteer their time and energy to support our teams! BasketballThe third statement- There is actually a schedule of when we play that is given to us by the stadium coordinators! It splits up the times when the band plays, when the cheerleaders perform, and also when the dance team performs. So now, we don't just take it upon ourselves to play whenever they feel like it. If you have a problem with the amount of time we are given, take it up with the people of the JAR.The fourth statement- This is actually something I agree with you on. My first year there were just a slim amount of people who auditioned and were accepted into the band. It was small and sounded balanced and not too over powering. However, these past few years (I have not been a student for the past 2 years) I agree that the band has over grown. I have been told that the numbers have literally doubled because they now have "alternates" that even though they didn't make the band, they are allowed to show up anyway if they want, making the band double the size it needs to be. I agree it now sounds over powering, and unbalanced! I totally agree that the director needs to put his foot down and make it just the small auditioned band that it needs! The fifth statement- Again, I agree with you here. I don't understand why, but they have taken it upon themselves to start sounding like "special needs" people during some of the chants. I also find it immature and VERY inappropriate! If you want to chant, chant!!! Be a part of the cheering! All in all, I don't find anything wrong with the way that the marching band is conducting themselves and the traditions that are kept, but I do think that some things should be addressed with the pep band during basketball season! I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I am looking at this from both a band member, and an attending patron! I love you rowdies, and I know A LOT of you from you formerly being a band member as well! I just don't understand why there can't be unity among us!

[mes102]

Here's my take on this...For Football, kudos to the band. I don't know if I could handle going through this cruel and unusual punishment week in, and week out, without being able to leave. I understand playing other school's fight song, but Zach and PAC_the_MAC. don't you think it's not the band's choice? Maybe it's been recommended from higher up(President, etc.)? Don't start criticizing individual band members...For Basketball, I beg to differ. I have many points on this one that I will explain:1) If you think that the only Rowdies that show up is the ones that are behind the hoops, then you haven't tried hard enough to look around. I see Rowdies and/or Non-Rowdies students in wooden bleachers basically because they either think it's too much hassle to try and get a wristband for a floor seat, or they have friends who can't get a floor seat so they sit and talk with them during the game.2) To go along with the above point, Here's my only criticisms about the band. Band members on here, please don't take it like I want all of you dead. I don't. People have come on this board and given the Rowdies some constructive criticism, and I feel that we can all learn a little about each other from constructive criticism than just pointing fingers. As a student and a Rowdie, I do sit in the floor seats. However, I'm considering A LOT to not sit down there this year, because I like discussing basketball with my friends during timeouts and halftime. The problem is I have to yell at the top of my lungs just so the person next to me can hear what I'm saying when I'm on either side of the floor seats. I've heard from some of my Rowdies' friends that went to my high school that the reason they don't sit on floor seats is because they want to talk to each other during those times(halftime and timeouts), to say things like "Did you see that block by Zeke?" or "That was an amazing and clutch 3 by Nitro" and so forth...3) The only other thing I feel the band needs to work on is the chants itself. When the Rowdies try chanting "Let's Go Zips" or "Z-FENSE" or something and all they do is their own little thing and ruin the chant of the Rowdies because the Rowdies get all screwed up which chant is the one they're doing...so it starts simmering down...That may be why some Rowdies are sour towards the band because they feel the band is trying to "outdo" the Rowdies....Just to clarify on the band doing their own thing, when there would be a pause between "Let's" and "Go" the band would say something like "Zips Let's Go" or something like that...it really hurts the Rowdies because the ones across can't understand what chant the Rowdies on other side are saying and can't join in either...________________________________________________________________________________That's the only criticism I have for the band. I hope it was constructive. All I want is the for the atmosphere to get better. I just feel if these are changed(not necessarily all of them right now..let's work on chant unison for now please), it will increase the atmosphere, and everyone's experience. And maybe, just maybe, increase the attendance at the JAR each game...

[FBJunkie]

Does Akron still have a football team??

[zipseuph]

Does Akron still have a football team??

Yes, they perform during a half time and post game for the marching band show

[Zips DM]

Thank you guys for bringing a modicum of civility to this discussion.Believe it or not, the band is aware of the posts on this site, insulting or otherwise, and I think this forum is a great way to have your ideas heard. I can offer no guarantees that ALL of your comments will yield visible results (as I am not speaking on behalf of the band)... but if you have a good idea, and it is doable it will trickle up to those who make the decisions. Trust me. Comments from this site actually influence the band, just be considerate, and reasonable. Thoughtful and intelligent discourse is preferable, but if you just want to blurt out a song name or something, go ahead.Just be nice, because a lot of people put a lot of themselves into the band that you see, so it’s hard not to take things personally."...and that's all I have to say about that." P.S.

[Mmmmkay]

Ok... here's what I have to say...1. Fact: We (the band) have played every team's fight song that comes to our field. If you don't like it, TOUGH. We WILL play Can't's fight song THIS SATURDAY.2. We were INCREDIBLY EXCITED that the team was so close to winning. We were also devastated when we lost. After the tough loss, or director gave us a small pep talk and tried to cheer us up. That's why we cheered when he said "lets go home."3. I have nothing to say about basketball because I'm not in B&G brass.4. Once again, we have always played the away team's fight song, and will continue this tradition in the future. DEAL WITH IT.

[Mmmmkay]

Have we played the K.e.n.t. fight song before? I don't recall it?If we play K.e.n.t.'s fight song at any point in next Saturday's game, I will walk out of the stadium and never return. That would be the biggest slap in the face anyone could ever pull on a Zips' fan. If you want to play a non-conference, traveling opponent's song, that's fine. You don't play K.e.n.t.'s fightsong in Akron. Period.

In response:1. Yes, we have. 2. Don't even waste your time in comming to the game then. We WILL be playing Can't's fight song THIS SATURDAY, like it or not.3. Once again. We WILL be playing Can't's fight song "IN AKRON. PERIOD."

[bandzip]

Now if it were something like this you would have a valid point.

After every game, win or lose, the Columbia band plays the school fight song, "Roar, Lion, Roar." But last Saturday, the band altered the lyrics to highlight the team's recent struggles -- the Lions are 0-9 this season.

The altered verse began with the lyrics, "We always lose, lose, lose; by a lot, and sometimes by a little," according to an article in the Columbia Spectator, the school's student newspaper.

[ZachTheZip]

This thread really changed once the NewMember posts went through the system.

Tonight is the first real basketball game at the JAR this year. Will I be able to hear the people standing next to me talk about the game, all the way across the arena from the band? Will they expand to have thirty trombones? Will they play Detroit's fight song (I think it's Journey's Don't Stop Believing)?