Hire Paul Winters Now.

[Zipgrad01]

Here is a Detroit News story that discusses PW's approach. If he gets hired here, it doesn't look like too many true freshmen will see the field next year.

+1

Give him ...or anyone...a hall pass for next year and let them do it right. How many times did we get burned down the middle on pass plays this year. And the safeties?? Freshmen. Looks like they had some talent but they were freshmen!!! Bring in some JUCO linemen and redshirt ALL the freshmen.

That strategy will simply not work at the D1 level. Telling all the freshman that they have to sit out would be the kiss of death for recruits. Read comments from recruits....many kids go to places that they think they can play right away. Working in the pro's is one thing, they dont have a choice where they get drafted. Players at the D2 level typically don't have the options to go to other schools, so they go with the program and sit out the year.

[Doug Snyder]

Here is a Detroit News story that discusses PW's approach. If he gets hired here, it doesn't look like too many true freshmen will see the field next year.

+1

Give him ...or anyone...a hall pass for next year and let them do it right. How many times did we get burned down the middle on pass plays this year. And the safeties?? Freshmen. Looks like they had some talent but they were freshmen!!! Bring in some JUCO linemen and redshirt ALL the freshmen.

That strategy will simply not work at the D1 level. Telling all the freshman that they have to sit out would be the kiss of death for recruits. Read comments from recruits....many kids go to places that they think they can play right away. Working in the pro's is one thing, they dont have a choice where they get drafted. Players at the D2 level typically don't have the options to go to other schools, so they go with the program and sit out the year.

Turner Gill redshirted his whole freshman class this year at Kansas.

[Zipgrad01]

Here is a Detroit News story that discusses PW's approach. If he gets hired here, it doesn't look like too many true freshmen will see the field next year.

+1

Give him ...or anyone...a hall pass for next year and let them do it right. How many times did we get burned down the middle on pass plays this year. And the safeties?? Freshmen. Looks like they had some talent but they were freshmen!!! Bring in some JUCO linemen and redshirt ALL the freshmen.

That strategy will simply not work at the D1 level. Telling all the freshman that they have to sit out would be the kiss of death for recruits. Read comments from recruits....many kids go to places that they think they can play right away. Working in the pro's is one thing, they dont have a choice where they get drafted. Players at the D2 level typically don't have the options to go to other schools, so they go with the program and sit out the year.

Turner Gill redshirted his whole freshman class this year at Kansas.

And he got fired.

[Doug Snyder]

Here is a Detroit News story that discusses PW's approach. If he gets hired here, it doesn't look like too many true freshmen will see the field next year.

+1

Give him ...or anyone...a hall pass for next year and let them do it right. How many times did we get burned down the middle on pass plays this year. And the safeties?? Freshmen. Looks like they had some talent but they were freshmen!!! Bring in some JUCO linemen and redshirt ALL the freshmen.

That strategy will simply not work at the D1 level. Telling all the freshman that they have to sit out would be the kiss of death for recruits. Read comments from recruits....many kids go to places that they think they can play right away. Working in the pro's is one thing, they dont have a choice where they get drafted. Players at the D2 level typically don't have the options to go to other schools, so they go with the program and sit out the year.

Turner Gill redshirted his whole freshman class this year at Kansas.

And he got fired.

True...but it did not seem to affect recruiting. And I am only advocating redshirting the freshman class in his 1st year. After that...maybe 80% would be redshirted.

[Zipgrad01]

Here is a Detroit News story that discusses PW's approach. If he gets hired here, it doesn't look like too many true freshmen will see the field next year.

+1

Give him ...or anyone...a hall pass for next year and let them do it right. How many times did we get burned down the middle on pass plays this year. And the safeties?? Freshmen. Looks like they had some talent but they were freshmen!!! Bring in some JUCO linemen and redshirt ALL the freshmen.

That strategy will simply not work at the D1 level. Telling all the freshman that they have to sit out would be the kiss of death for recruits. Read comments from recruits....many kids go to places that they think they can play right away. Working in the pro's is one thing, they dont have a choice where they get drafted. Players at the D2 level typically don't have the options to go to other schools, so they go with the program and sit out the year.

Turner Gill redshirted his whole freshman class this year at Kansas.

And he got fired.

True...but it did not seem to affect recruiting. And I am only advocating redshirting the freshman class in his 1st year. After that...maybe 80% would be redshirted.

http://cjonline.com/sports/football/2011-0...dd-depth-kansas

What you are saying isn't exactly true. He redshirted most, not all of his freshman. I am sure he didnt tell all these kids that they would be redshirted. That would have been suicide. If you read on, he says that he was going to begin to play more freshman and not redshirt all of them.

[johnnyzip84]

Here’s a wee little bit of Christmas humor (and I do mean a wee little bit) for you:

What do skip-zip and the Heat Miser have in common?

They’re both vehemently opposed to Winters

[g-mann17]

^^^^^

[hiroad1]

Here’s a wee little bit of Christmas humor (and I do mean a wee little bit) for you:

What do skip-zip and the Heat Miser have in common?

They’re both vehemently opposed to Winters

Okay. I'll admit this made me smile.

Pretty creative. Maybe you should apply to be the new OC.

[Blue & Gold]

Here's a wee little bit of Christmas humor (and I do mean a wee little bit) for you:

What do skip-zip and the Heat Miser have in common?

They're both vehemently opposed to Winters

Wow. That was painful.

[skip-zip]

Here’s a wee little bit of Christmas humor (and I do mean a wee little bit) for you:

What do skip-zip and the Heat Miser have in common?

They’re both vehemently opposed to Winters

Very good. Very creative. I laughed too.

Vehemently is in my vocabulary. But, I don't believe I've used it in this case. I think that the folks in favor of his hiring are much more emotional. It's just sad for me to think that my alma mater would even consider a D-II coach, with a mediocre record, who was part of a staff who failed here once before. I'm an old guy. I've been around Akron Athletics a long time, and I'd like to think that after 25 years of D-1A football, we should be able to do much, much better than that. Maybe we can't. And it frustrates me, and I am going to voice my frustration.

But, thanks for the laugh. I needed that.

[johnnyzip84]

Here’s a wee little bit of Christmas humor (and I do mean a wee little bit) for you:

What do skip-zip and the Heat Miser have in common?

They’re both vehemently opposed to Winters

Very good. Very creative. I laughed too.

Vehemently is in my vocabulary. But, I don't believe I've used it in this case. I think that the folks in favor of his hiring are much more emotional. It's just sad for me to think that my alma mater would even consider a D-II coach, with a mediocre record, who was part of a staff who failed here once before. I'm an old guy. I've been around Akron Athletics a long time, and I'd like to think that after 25 years of D-1A football, we should be able to do much, much better than that. Maybe we can't. And it frustrates me, and I am going to voice my frustration.

But, thanks for the laugh. I needed that.

We disagree on this issue. But we agree on many more. Vehemently just seemed to flow pretty well. I just couldn't resist and I'm glad you're taking it in the spirit in which it was intended

[skip-zip]

Here’s a wee little bit of Christmas humor (and I do mean a wee little bit) for you:

What do skip-zip and the Heat Miser have in common?

They’re both vehemently opposed to Winters

Very good. Very creative. I laughed too.

Vehemently is in my vocabulary. But, I don't believe I've used it in this case. I think that the folks in favor of his hiring are much more emotional. It's just sad for me to think that my alma mater would even consider a D-II coach, with a mediocre record, who was part of a staff who failed here once before. I'm an old guy. I've been around Akron Athletics a long time, and I'd like to think that after 25 years of D-1A football, we should be able to do much, much better than that. Maybe we can't. And it frustrates me, and I am going to voice my frustration.

But, thanks for the laugh. I needed that.

We disagree on this issue. But we agree on many more. Vehemently just seemed to flow pretty well. I just couldn't resist and I'm glad you're taking it in the spirit in which it was intended

Absolutely. Actually, I think we need to inject a little humor on here more often to remind each other that this is supposed to be fun, and that we all want the same results for the Zips. We just disagree sometimes on how to get there.

[MDZip]

Here’s a wee little bit of Christmas humor (and I do mean a wee little bit) for you:

What do skip-zip and the Heat Miser have in common?

They’re both vehemently opposed to Winters

So would this then make ITZ the Snow Miser since he always wants Winters?

[Dave in Green]

Very good. Very creative. I laughed too.

Vehemently is in my vocabulary. But, I don't believe I've used it in this case. I think that the folks in favor of his hiring are much more emotional. It's just sad for me to think that my alma mater would even consider a D-II coach, with a mediocre record, who was part of a staff who failed here once before. I'm an old guy. I've been around Akron Athletics a long time, and I'd like to think that after 25 years of D-1A football, we should be able to do much, much better than that. Maybe we can't. And it frustrates me, and I am going to voice my frustration.

But, thanks for the laugh. I needed that.

Great to see the humor acknowledged and appreciated.

I hope you're also open-minded enough to understand that your description of your reaction to Winters might strike some as just as emotional in a negative way as those you are calling out for being emotional in their optimism for Winters.

If being part of a group that fails at something precludes that person from ever being successful under different circumstances, then there are no qualified candidates.

In fact, Winters' work at OC appears to be the most successful part of the failed staff that lives on so vividly in your memory.

[skip-zip]

Very good. Very creative. I laughed too.

Vehemently is in my vocabulary. But, I don't believe I've used it in this case. I think that the folks in favor of his hiring are much more emotional. It's just sad for me to think that my alma mater would even consider a D-II coach, with a mediocre record, who was part of a staff who failed here once before. I'm an old guy. I've been around Akron Athletics a long time, and I'd like to think that after 25 years of D-1A football, we should be able to do much, much better than that. Maybe we can't. And it frustrates me, and I am going to voice my frustration.

But, thanks for the laugh. I needed that.

Great to see the humor acknowledged and appreciated.

I hope you're also open-minded enough to understand that your description of your reaction to Winters might strike some as just as emotional in a negative way as those you are calling out for being emotional in their optimism for Winters.

If being part of a group that fails at something precludes that person from ever being successful under different circumstances, then there are no qualified candidates.

In fact, Winters' work at OC appears to be the most successful part of the failed staff that lives on so vividly in your memory.

Dave, did you have to ruin my good mood so fast? I was just starting to have fun again

Let me put it this way. Ever since Owens left town, there's been a faction of people in Akron who have wanted him to fill every job opening we've had. I run into them in business meetings, games, parties, etc. Wayne could be having a good year or a bad year. It doesn't matter. I'll see people screaming his name every time something isn't going right for us on the field. And in most cases, I'd come to find that it is a friend of his from high school, played for him, etc. So, I think the argument for him is personal for many people. I'm sure this doesn't include everyone in his corner. But, I think you get where I'm coming from, and why I notice so much emotion in those who support him.

In my case, I just don't think "Akron Guy" is even remotely a good enough reason to bring him here. I also don't think winning a few more games than he's lost at a D-II school may even be good enough to warrant a D-1AA job yet. And I don't think you can just give him a pass for how badly we failed during the near-decade in which he was the head coach's right hand man. And maybe most of all, I don't think coaches who are highly regarded in the big leagues fall down two levels into an abyss like Wayne State for nearly a decade by accident.

I guess I feel like I have to kick up the volume a little bit when arguing against his supporters. I'm sure it's a result of my experiences with the blind loyalty that's displayed towards him, no matter what he's accomplishing in any given year.

Beyond that, I just want us shooting for the stars with this kind of hire. Maybe we can't get a star candidate right now. Maybe we are going to have to settle for someone like Winters. And it frustrates me as a fan.

[Buckzip]

Here’s a wee little bit of Christmas humor (and I do mean a wee little bit) for you:

What do skip-zip and the Heat Miser have in common?

They’re both vehemently opposed to Winters

Very good. Very creative. I laughed too.

Vehemently is in my vocabulary. But, I don't believe I've used it in this case. I think that the folks in favor of his hiring are much more emotional. It's just sad for me to think that my alma mater would even consider a D-II coach, with a mediocre record, who was part of a staff who failed here once before. I'm an old guy. I've been around Akron Athletics a long time, and I'd like to think that after 25 years of D-1A football, we should be able to do much, much better than that. Maybe we can't. And it frustrates me, and I am going to voice my frustration.

But, thanks for the laugh. I needed that.

Wow, it must be the holiday season and there is magic in the air. I agree with skipzip again.

Miracles do happen...

[Dave in Green]

@skip-zip, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I get it that a lot of fans get emotional over the choice of a new head coach based on years of frustration with the performance of past coaches and teams.

I'm just trying to look at it from a more detached viewpoint, weighing the pros and cons of the various candidates, trying to understand how those pros and cons would be relevant at UA and in the MAC, trying to figure out which candidates are not likely to come to Akron even if offered, etc.

I see where there are valid questions about whether Winters' body of work has made him more or less likely to turn the Zips into consistent winners than some of the other candidates who've been mentioned.

I think when we get into an emotional debate where one side is trying to "prove" a candidate is worthy and the other side is trying to "prove" that candidate is unworthy, it can sometimes ratchet up to the point that the candidate's credentials are unrealistically puffed up or totally trashed.

The truth lies somewhere between, and that's what I'm trying to understand. I'm trying to dial out the emotional element and focus on the more objective comments from forum members about the various candidates.

[skip-zip]

@skip-zip, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I get it that a lot of fans get emotional over the choice of a new head coach based on years of frustration with the performance of past coaches and teams.

I'm just trying to look at it from a more detached viewpoint, weighing the pros and cons of the various candidates, trying to understand how those pros and cons would be relevant at UA and in the MAC, trying to figure out which candidates are not likely to come to Akron even if offered, etc.

I see where there are valid questions about whether Winters' body of work has made him more or less likely to turn the Zips into consistent winners than some of the other candidates who've been mentioned.

I think when we get into an emotional debate where one side is trying to "prove" a candidate is worthy and the other side is trying to "prove" that candidate is unworthy, it can sometimes ratchet up to the point that the candidate's credentials are unrealistically puffed up or totally trashed.

The truth lies somewhere between, and that's what I'm trying to understand. I'm trying to dial out the emotional element and focus on the more objective comments from forum members about the various candidates.

Good post, Dave. You know how much I harp about wanting to see more information sharing as opposed to arguing on this board.

Speaking of information, I thought this was pretty shocking, and a great example of the dramatic difference between running a D-II program, and a D-1A program:

Someone pointed out an article to me in a Detroit publication in which it says that Wayne State's football budget is only 195k. WOW. I guess I wasn't too far off when I used the old analogy that it's like running a corner grocery store vs. running a Wal-Mart.

[InTheZone]

Wrong... here's an article on the differences in having success in D1, 2, and 3. As the article points out, D2 is very similar to D1, and D3 is kind of its own very different world.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2962812

Here's the bottom line skip... you can continue to bash Winters and search for every excuse you can to do so, or you can get on board. He's our next head coach, he has the support of a vast majority of people on this board and UA fans in general, and you would be better suited to just accept that, get on board, and help him make this thing a winner than to continue to bitch, moan, and make things up.

[ZipRoo]

ITZ, in all fairness, Winters has very "tacit" support, only because so many view his hiring as inevitable. You should know that any one of us would much rather a more charismatic difference-maker be hired. But since that's unlikely, we're forced to accept that your guy is coming instead. Hope you're not expecting any ticker-tape parades, or even a mild pep-rally on campus. Paul just doesn't engender that kind of response. And sadly, with the pathetic state of affairs at UA and the morbid football program, a "ticker-tape" type hire is exactly what we needed.

We get it...you played for the guy, you know the guy, and you want the guy here. We'll accept it, but PW is most certainly not #1 on the list of a majority of ZNO posters. That much was clear on Tressel Rumor Day.

And trust me, if Stoops or Bowden were more heavily rumored to be here, this board would drop the "PW's the Guy" talk faster than iCoach could signal for a 4th quarter field goal with his team trailing 43-0.

[Zipgrad01]

Wrong... here's an article on the differences in having success in D1, 2, and 3. As the article points out, D2 is very similar to D1, and D3 is kind of its own very different world.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2962812

Here's the bottom line skip... you can continue to bash Winters and search for every excuse you can to do so, or you can get on board. He's our next head coach, he has the support of a vast majority of people on this board and UA fans in general, and you would be better suited to just accept that, get on board, and help him make this thing a winner than to continue to bitch, moan, and make things up.

I see what you are trying to say, but I, as do most Americans, have a problem when someone says that we would be better suited to just accept that and get on board if we don't agree with it. That's like saying you were a German that didn't agree with Hitler, but you should just shut up and support him because a majority of the country thought he was the man to lead them.

I don't think his analogy is that far off. It is like running a corner store compared to a walmart. You sell the same things, but the size of the store, the number of employees and that $ coming in and going out is just on a smaller scale.

The complete silence on the hiring process has gotten me so frustrated that it is hard for me to support anyone because I have no idea what is really going on or who is really in the running for the job. Because of that, I can't just drink the Winters is the man kool aid.

[Zipgrad01]

Wrong... here's an article on the differences in having success in D1, 2, and 3. As the article points out, D2 is very similar to D1, and D3 is kind of its own very different world.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2962812

Here's the bottom line skip... you can continue to bash Winters and search for every excuse you can to do so, or you can get on board. He's our next head coach, he has the support of a vast majority of people on this board and UA fans in general, and you would be better suited to just accept that, get on board, and help him make this thing a winner than to continue to bitch, moan, and make things up.

I see what you are trying to say, but I, as do most Americans, have a problem when someone says that we would be better suited to just accept that and get on board if we don't agree with it. That's like saying you were a German that didn't agree with Hitler, but you should just shut up and support him because a majority of the country thought he was the man to lead them.

I don't think his analogy is that far off. It is like running a corner store compared to a walmart. You sell the same things, but the size of the store, the number of employees and that $ coming in and going out is just on a smaller scale.

The complete silence on the hiring process has gotten me so frustrated that it is hard for me to support anyone because I have no idea what is really going on or who is really in the running for the job. Because of that, I can't just drink the Winters is the man kool aid.

[hiroad1]

It appears one of two scenarios has played out in this selection process.

Either the search was a farce to cover the fact that TW and/or the Administration never intended to hire anyone but Paul Winters, or UA is hiring Paul Winters because nobody with stronger credentials was willing to accept the job.

I can be very skeptical, but I find it hard to imagine Dr. Proenza wouldn't have pushed for UA to get the best coach available to us. With the lack of available information, I'm willing to give UA the benefit of the doubt that this was the case. But, man, if I find out otherwise I will be livid!

So, I have to accept that being the worst program in D1 did not motivate stellar coaching candidates to stake their careers on a stop at UA.

While not jubilant, I can accept that Paul Winters might be the best hire we are able to make, and I sure hope he can be successful here.

[GP1]

a more charismatic difference-maker be hired.

I used to sit on conference calls with my phone on mute laughing at Six Sigma black belts saying things they had no idea what they were talking about and everyone knew it (Hint: This is when you know it is time to exit corporate America and start your own business). This reminds me of those phone calls.

Please explain what a "charismatic difference-maker" is.?.?

[Dave in Green]

@ZipRoo, you keep pushing Bowden as a better option than Winters. In a previous post, you said you'd "offer Terry Bowden the moon."

Terry Bowden has been a D2 coach at the University of North Alabama for the last few years, and hasn't come close to getting to the D2 championship game.

He was hired by UNA at a salary of only $100k per year.

Any FBS school could have easily offered enough money to hire him away from UNA at any time.

Other than his last name, can you explain what you see in Terry Bowden that should cause UA to go after a coach that no other FBS school in the country has any interest in?