Blue & Gold Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm not sure how much credit to put on this, but according to ASN, Wistrcill told the hockey team that they plan on making them from a club team to a scholarship team. ASN is the only place covering Akron hockey, so i figured they might of been told this by the hockey team on what Wistrcill said. If this is true, could we see an arena be built where it could be used for basketball and hockey? To be completely honest, I want to keep the JAR. It would be a great place to host volleyball matches, basketball practice, summer camps/shootouts that the basketball teams have(sure volleyball does too), and would create more jobs for the Akron area if they keep the JAR, and then build an arena for games..." look under "Other News" Actually the article states that the team met with TW concerning the mere possibility of the team moving from club to scholarship rank. From the wording of the blurb, it sounds as though the team approached TW and not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm not sure how much credit to put on this, but according to ASN, Wistrcill told the hockey team that they plan on making them from a club team to a scholarship team. ..... The actual wording makes it sound more like a wish than a plan: Also, Coach Michael Sadjadi and the rest of the Zips staff recently met with University of Akron Athletic Director Tom Wistrcill to discuss the future of the program and a possible move from club sport to NCAA scholarship program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-mann17 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 The actual wording makes it sound more like a wish than a plan: Also, Coach Michael Sadjadi and the rest of the Zips staff recently met with University of Akron Athletic Director Tom Wistrcill to discuss the future of the program and a possible move from club sport to NCAA scholarship program. If the Hockey club is so inclined, they could gauge interest by hosting an outdoor hockey event at the Info or First Energy against a club from somebody the students know of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Here's the problem for me concerning Akron hockey. If we build an arena to accomodate both basketball, and what would be a very upstart college hockey team, does anyone else see a real problem with accomodating that hockey at the detriment of a good basketball arena? I don't know. I see a Zips hockey team being far less of a draw than a minor league hockey franchise. I'm thinking that if Akron scholarship hockey emerges, a small venue built for hockey would be sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Here's the problem for me concerning Akron hockey. If we build an arena to accomodate both basketball, and what would be a very upstart college hockey team, does anyone else see a real problem with accomodating that hockey at the detriment of a good basketball arena? I don't know. I see a Zips hockey team being far less of a draw than a minor league hockey franchise. I'm thinking that if Akron scholarship hockey emerges, a small venue built for hockey would be sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akzipper Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 and the new student center... and the fieldhouse... and the new simmons hall... and the new student rec center... and... ... I'm wondering if any school in the country, in the last decade, has tapped itself out with new building expenditures as much as Akron has. UCF didn't seem to have any problem with that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue & Gold Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Here's the problem for me concerning Akron hockey. If we build an arena to accomodate both basketball, and what would be a very upstart college hockey team, does anyone else see a real problem with accomodating that hockey at the detriment of a good basketball arena? I don't know. I see a Zips hockey team being far less of a draw than a minor league hockey franchise. I'm thinking that if Akron scholarship hockey emerges, a small venue built for hockey would be sufficient. For college hockey, something just a little nicer than Can't's antiquated ice arena would be perfect. It'd be nice to have an ice arena on campus for the students and community anyway (broomball for the area youth groups!). Somthing similar to Miami-O's beautiful new Goggin Ice Arena would be great! But even though Miami-O has a national championship caliber hockey team, the Goggin holds less than 4,000. But, whatever. Anything but the JAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Here's the problem for me concerning Akron hockey. If we build an arena to accomodate both basketball, and what would be a very upstart college hockey team, does anyone else see a real problem with accomodating that hockey at the detriment of a good basketball arena? I don't know. I see a Zips hockey team being far less of a draw than a minor league hockey franchise. I'm thinking that if Akron scholarship hockey emerges, a small venue built for hockey would be sufficient. College hockey has the potential to develop a strong following in this area. Like in men's soccer, we would have a regional monopoly on the sport, since nobody else in the area has a team. Even moderate success would create a following of maybe 3000 fans in a university and city of our size, which is pretty good for college hockey. The latest figures I could find are for 2008, and I think we could break into the top 25 of attendance rather easily. The Lake Erie Monsters posted the top attendance of the AHL last year at just over 8,000 per game. A minor league team in Akron would not draw flies in the shadow of the already well-established and well-advertized Monsters, but the Zips could. College hockey offers a different experience that doesn't compete directly. Plus, you get 16+ events to add to the arena every year, which makes it more attractive to potential sponsors who's support we won't be able to build the arena without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm not sure we're grasping the magnitude of a combined Zips Basketball / Zips Hockey arena. If I'm correct, the ice has to be maintained all the time, with the ice being covered for basketball, and then back again. That, along with the changes in seating configuration on a daily basis is a really big undertaking. I'm not even sold on the idea of sharing a downtown arena for Zips basketball and minor league hockey, because of it's limitations. Selling me on our own facility for Zips basketball that could also accomodate Zips hockey is going to be even a lot more difficult. Having a place somewhat misconfigured for basketball is just not worth it to me. If the hockey thing happens, I say build a small venue for hockey, that can also be used recreationally, would be more than enough. The notion that we'd draw thousands for college hockey (we barely draw 3,000 for most basketball games) is just crazy, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue & Gold Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 The notion that we'd draw thousands for college hockey (we barely draw 3,000 for most basketball games) is just crazy, in my opinion. I've got to agree with that. It is a huge undertaking, maintaining an ice hockey arena. Let's build a world-class basketball arena, where we maintain a true home court advantage. Don't think NBA. Exceedingly few college teams draw like NBA teams. Even Columbus State complained about how quiet Value City Arena is compared to their old basketball arena. As painful as it is to say this, we're never going to draw like Columbus State. Also, to envision a Cavs game isn't realistic either. Even the worst NBA franchises draw much better than almost all college teams. Even Duke's Cameron Indoor Stadium seats only 9,314 - though they can cram 10,000 in there for standing room only. We need a 10,000-seat (tops) arena where spectators are right on top of the action. This is Oregon's new basketball arena, the Matthew Knight Arena. It seats 12,541, which is about 2,500-seats larger than we'd build. Also, we couldn't afford half of the bells & whistles this place has. But it's a beautiful basketball arena that we should hope to emulate. If we build a 8-10,000-seat hockey arena for Zips basketball, a crowd of 6,000 would be spread thin, far removed from the court & boy would it be quiet in there. (One reason the Cavs always have something blaring over their speakers.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Who's going to build an arena like that? Not UA. We can't afford it. The city will build an arena, and we'll have a partnership with that. If you're against a hockey arena, you're for staying in the JAR for another 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Who's going to build an arena like that? Not UA. We can't afford it. The city will build an arena, and we'll have a partnership with that. If you're against a hockey arena, you're for staying in the JAR for another 20 years. We're now talking about what we'd do if Akron made Hockey a scholarship intercollegiate sport. Maybe we need to separate that from the discussions of a downtown Akron Basketball / Minor League Hockey arena. I seriously doubt if a large downtown arena could justify accomodating an upstart college hockey team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 We're now talking about what we'd do if Akron made Hockey a scholarship intercollegiate sport. Maybe we need to separate that from the discussions of a downtown Akron Basketball / Minor League Hockey arena. I seriously doubt if a large downtown arena could justify accomodating an upstart college hockey team. What else would they use it for? We only have about 15 basketball home games a year. Having hockey games in there is better than leaving it empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 What else would they use it for? We only have about 15 basketball home games a year. Having hockey games in there is better than leaving it empty. Good point. That's the 10 million dollar question. If Akron had a decent size downtown arena, how much use could they really get out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Good point. That's the 10 million dollar question. If Akron had a decent size downtown arena, how much use could they really get out of it? That's why I think an ice rink would be good, as well as the ability to host as many different kinds of events as possible. UA can't afford a basketball-only arena, but neither can the city. The only way anything is getting done is to build it to accomadate everything they can think of. They have a skating rink at Lock 3 that's very popular, but having one indoors that can be used in the summer would be great for the city and downtown. Even if Hockey doesn't become a scholarship sport, they could play their club games there instead of way out by Akron/Canton airport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 That's why I think an ice rink would be good, as well as the ability to host as many different kinds of events as possible. UA can't afford a basketball-only arena, but neither can the city. The only way anything is getting done is to build it to accomadate everything they can think of. They have a skating rink at Lock 3 that's very popular, but having one indoors that can be used in the summer would be great for the city and downtown. Even if Hockey doesn't become a scholarship sport, they could play their club games there instead of way out by Akron/Canton airport. I've never operated an arena. But, the only point where I disagree with you is in the feasibility of just opening the doors of a nice, new 8,000-10,000 seat arena for every event imaginable. If it's not generating revenue, I'd think that just opening the doors and turning on the lights is a big money loser. So, I don't think that using it for every imaginable event would be a wise move for the operator. Especially when it would involve making massive changes to the floor for every event, which you would have to do with the permanent ice surface. I would presume that more knowledgable people than you and I may already be talking about these issues. But, this is still a great discussion, and it's fun to think about the possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I've never operated an arena. But, the only point where I disagree with you is in the feasibility of just opening the doors of a nice, new 8,000-10,000 seat arena for every event imaginable. If it's not generating revenue, I'd think that just opening the doors and turning on the lights is a big money loser. So, I don't think that using it for every imaginable event would be a wise move for the operator. Especially when it would involve making massive changes to the floor for every event, which you would have to do with the permanent ice surface. I would presume that more knowledgable people than you and I may already be talking about these issues. But, this is still a great discussion, and it's fun to think about the possibilities. I'm not more knowledgeable either, but when I see people posting videos of arena's being converted from hockey to basketball, and there is a time lapse video of 50 people and a half dozen large equipment working for hours and hours to move thousands of pieces of floor and rigging and shifting dozens of seat/stands, and then I think of the energy costs keeping the ice frozen and for removing humidity and condensation on your basketball floor not to mention keeping the rest of the arena warm while there is a slice of Antarctica is in your building... all this extra time, effort and money, just to make the arena less intimate for basketball so that the 28 people besides friends and family can watch the hockey team play..... well, when I see that, I think "what a drain that must be!" So many people, even if many are volunteers. So much organization. So much more equipment. So much more hassle and scheduling to practice. So much more maintenance and problem mitigation.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Wow this took off while I was at work/class/clinicals. LOL The club hockey team is outgrowing the arena they're at now. They have sold a bunch of season tickets, and draw a good walk-up every night they play. This for a club sport that is not mentioned on GoZips or any of the U's marketing (billboards, emails, other games, Zip points). So IMO a sanctioned sport could do better, maybe even break even (something unheard of in non-BCS programs). Wooster packs their place for Junior-A hockey (rumor is the Zips are going there for a game next month), the Monsters are a good draw. The Lumberjacks drew well at the Coliseum. What happened to the Jacks and Barons at the Q is simple economics of the Cavs owner getting ALL of the parking and concession $$$. Now the hockey owner IS the Cavs owner so he gets that profit, is able to do better marketing. And that explains his buying the Gladiators... But I digress. The team needs a bigger arena. They could draw better with the marketing power of the U, as deficient as it may be for big time college football. An on-campus rink would be a great plus, with open skate times, intramurals?, throw down turf and have open and intramural indoor soccer. It becomes a great recreational/fitness facility for ALL of the students. Have you guys ever been to a pick-up indoor soccer game? A public skate? Those would be very popular if on campus. But, there's only 15 students we're worried about here, isn't there? But that won't work if it's downtown, the place will always be set up for the Akron Charge and the Harlem Globetrotters and monster trucks. Everyone whines about the switchover between hockey and other sports (that they don't have to do), while watching videos of change-overs between hockey and basketball games in the SAME DAY. It's simple. Scheduling. You don't schedule both teams in the same day, the same weekend. If it's even needed, the changeover is done once a week. That's my thoughts on hockey. Game time is 8:40 tonight, by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I've never operated an arena. But, the only point where I disagree with you is in the feasibility of just opening the doors of a nice, new 8,000-10,000 seat arena for every event imaginable. If it's not generating revenue, I'd think that just opening the doors and turning on the lights is a big money loser. Do any Zips programs break even? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Basketball. If you don't build an arena with expectations of what the team COULD draw in the future, you're wasting money. Build too small, and you're going to be replacing it a lot sooner. If you know for sure that the program will NEVER draw more than 3000 per game, then build small and keep this great "atmosphere" I have never seen at the JAR. And maybe some will get their wish of people wanting to pay to see this team and are unable to get in. I've already stated my opinion of campus/downtown, university/community owned. Nobody has changed my mind on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Spin. Just a point of clarification. I was a Monsters game recently. They don't even open the top part of the arena. And the lower seats were very sparsely populated. I think they announced the crowd at 4,000, and it was against a good team. Maybe some games are drawing better. And maybe it's good when compared to some other minor league franchise, but it wasn't impressive. The Monsters are on the tail end of several NE Ohio minor league hockey failures. The only reason they are surviving is because of the money being thrown at it by a very, very rich man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Basketball. If you don't build an arena with expectations of what the team COULD draw in the future, you're wasting money. Build too small, and you're going to be replacing it a lot sooner. If you know for sure that the program will NEVER draw more than 3000 per game, then build small and keep this great "atmosphere" I have never seen at the JAR. And maybe some will get their wish of people wanting to pay to see this team and are unable to get in. I've already stated my opinion of campus/downtown, university/community owned. Nobody has changed my mind on that. well, there is currently a thread by somebody who didnt get a ticket and is looking for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Spin. Just a point of clarification. I was a Monsters game recently. They don't even open the top part of the arena. And the lower seats were very sparsely populated. I think they announced the crowd at 4,000, and it was against a good team. Maybe some games are drawing better. And maybe it's good when compared to some other minor league franchise, but it wasn't impressive. The Monsters are on the tail end of several NE Ohio minor league hockey failures. The only reason they are surviving is because of the money being thrown at it by a very, very rich man. You're talking MINOR LEAGUE HOCKEY. That's like going to an Aero's game and complaining they don't outdraw the Yankees. The Monsters (and Aeros) rank high in the league in attendance and are profitable. You have to understand expenses of minor league vs. major league. Wooster has a Junior A team that makes a profit with a couple hundred fans. It's all about the bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 well, there is currently a thread by somebody who didnt get a ticket and is looking for one. That's the scenario some hope for. Not me. I want the program to get their money too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I've never operated an arena. But, the only point where I disagree with you is in the feasibility of just opening the doors of a nice, new 8,000-10,000 seat arena for every event imaginable. If it's not generating revenue, I'd think that just opening the doors and turning on the lights is a big money loser. So, I don't think that using it for every imaginable event would be a wise move for the operator. Especially when it would involve making massive changes to the floor for every event, which you would have to do with the permanent ice surface. I would presume that more knowledgable people than you and I may already be talking about these issues. But, this is still a great discussion, and it's fun to think about the possibilities. I agree that it's a lot of fun discussing the possibilities. This is one of the kinds of discussions that makes ZN.o so interesting because different people bring different perspectives, and we all learn something. It should be a fairly straightforward process to benchmark arenas in similar-size markets. You simply look at the cost of adding and maintaining an ice rink to a multipurpose arena, and that will tell you how much money the ice rink portion would need to generate in order to carry its weight. If a lot of arenas across the country are making money on ice events, that suggests the odds might be good in Akron. If a lot of arenas are losing money on ice events, that should be a caution signal. Not having an ice rink does not mean an Akron arena could only be used for basketball. It only means that it could be used for every other type of event that doesn't require an ice rink. I see no reason why Zips basketball fans should oppose a multipurpose arena with an ice rink as long as the ice rink doesn't compromise basketball seating and doesn't cause an economic drag on the arena that causes it to be financially unsuccessful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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