UofA's Rhodes Arena Study

[Zipmeister]

College of Charleston

I've posted this before, but it is worth a look again. Give me something like this with 2,500 more seats and it is enough. Enough with the 10-15,000 seat nonsense (even worse with curtains trying to fool people into believing their tax dollars weren't a complete waste of money). CoC is located in Charleston (a very different city than Akron), but is its own section of town, like UofA is. I drove by it yesterday and thought of the Zips. When you drive by, you would never know it was a basketball arena if it wasn't for the signs. Fits the historic town perfectly. UofA needs an arena that fits the look and feel of the new campus, not the look and feel of the City of Akron.

A packed stadium is better than a half empty stadium with an empty promise of a bigger conference down the road.

Dr. Proenza has always had a vision for UofA that includes limited partnership with the City of Akron. It works. Any new arena should be on campus.

BTW, the girl:boy ratio at CofC is 3:1 if you are interested. I have a customer who is a dirty old man and likes to meet me at the Starbucks across the street from the main gates to watch girls while they walk around. He schedules his times for meetings for when classes are changing. We like some of our customers for different reasons.....

The people sitting behind the baskets must have Velcro on their pants to keep from falling out of those seats!

[Zipmeister]

If the University is planning a multi-use facility nothing wrong with 10,000+ seats.

Facility to be used strictly for UofA basketball (not a bright idea) I agree with the Grate One.

[akzipper]

College of Charleston

Even by MAC standards that is a very unimpressive arena. Just look at what Bowling Green built and that should give UA a foundation of what NOT TO DO. Of course Akron is not going to fill a 8-10,000 arena every night. But if you don't think we can get big crowds consistently you are crazy. Using that logic, InfoCision should have only been build to hold 15,000. Schools like Missouri State and St. Louis should be examples of what to do.

[ZachTheZip]

If we could just airlift Dayton's arena up to Akron, we would be set for the next 40 years.

[akzipper]

If we could just airlift Dayton's arena up to Akron, we would be set for the next 40 years.

Haha the only thing I don't like about theirs is that all the seating is on one level. I prefer multi-levels because it puts the upper section closer to the floor, and makes it seem bigger.

[akronzips71]

Put it next to Shroeders.

OK fess up. Who among you is old enough to remember Shroeders, and the Shroeders for Lunch Bunch?

[Spin]

Just an observation, and I could be wrong, but it seems the people who want it on campus are the people looking for what's best for the university, while the ones who want it downtown are worried about what they will do after the game.

[ZachTheZip]

Just an observation, and I could be wrong, but it seems the people who want it on campus are the people looking for what's best for the university, while the ones who want it downtown are worried about what they will do after the game.

Isn't being able to bring in more fans, the kind of fans factors in those kind of things into their decision (that group includes most students who are concerned about their social lives and where to hang out later that night) "whats best" for UA?

What's the benefit to having an arena that fits nicely within some map if it means less people will show up? Why do you think the football stadium was built on Exchange street on a lot that wasn't even on campus instead of the wastelands of the north part of campus?

[Spin]

Isn't being able to bring in more fans, the kind of fans factors in those kind of things into their decision (that group includes most students who are concerned about their social lives and where to hang out later that night) "whats best" for UA?

What's the benefit to having an arena that fits nicely within some map if it means less people will show up? Why do you think the football stadium was built on Exchange street on a lot that wasn't even on campus instead of the wastelands of the north part of campus?

Who said they were going to build on the north part of campus? Where would there even be land available on the north part of campus, Central Hower??

You just used the perfect example in your argument. The stadium was built ON E.Exchange, right across from where the new development is taking place. It wasn't part of "campus" until the stadium was built there. Campus expansion. Doing the same with the arena, or using the land the ball diamond is on, is doing the same thing.

And it would help development along E.Exchange. Someone is looking at B-Dubs and saying they don't like it and don't want the arena built next door. That's like looking at S.Main before Canal Park was built and saying that's an awful place to put a stadium. If the arena is being built across the street, those bars and restaurants will come. Just like they did in the Central Market/Gateway in Cleveland. Just like they did in the porn cinema district/Canal Park district, and hundreds of other places.

No brainer. Put a winning team on the floor, market it right, and people will come. The Force got 18,000 people to drive through a blizzard to Richfield (in a secondary snow belt, in the middle of a forest) to watch indoor soccer. Don't tell me people won't find an arena 3000 ft. to the east of the S. Main site if there's something there they want to see...

[scottditzen]

Just an observation, and I could be wrong, but it seems the people who want it on campus are the people looking for what's best for the university, while the ones who want it downtown are worried about what they will do after the game.

Okay, I'll bite.

Forget about the Campus vs. Downtown thing for a second.

The way I see it, what's best for the University is providing the arena with the tools to be the biggest draw it can possibly be. You measure that by the number of fans in attendance. Since this is a basketball arena we're talking about, you can bet that "game day experience" ways heavily into the equation. The better the overall product, the higher the demand from consumers.

You may interpret exactly what that means different than I, and I respect your opinion to do that.

From my experience, what is immediately surrounding a sporting complex can be every bit as important as what's inside. One example, CSU has a good program and a huge venue, in which they opted for a suburban-type design placed inside an entertainment dead zone. There is no surrounding energy. None. The venue isn't profitable. I personally think that this dead zone is a big factor in their lack of positive game day experience and in their awful attendance numbers. And I feel that the JAR and Akron Basketball has been placed in an identical situation.

TL;DR: Good attendance is what's best for the University; I think overall game day experience plays a large role in attendance; there is no energy or street life surrounding either CSU/JAR and that's part of the reason both venues suck.

[Spin]

Okay, I'll bite.

Forget about the Campus vs. Downtown thing for a second.

The way I see it, what's best for the University is providing the arena with the tools to be the biggest draw it can possibly be. You measure that by the number of fans in attendance. Since this is a basketball arena we're talking about, you can bet that "game day experience" ways heavily into the equation. The better the overall product, the higher the demand from consumers.

You may interpret exactly what that means different than I, and I respect your opinion to do that.

From my experience, what is immediately surrounding a sporting complex can be every bit as important as what's inside. One example, CSU has a good program and a huge venue, in which they opted for a suburban-type design placed inside an entertainment dead zone. There is no surrounding energy. None. The venue isn't profitable. I personally think that this dead zone is a big factor in their lack of positive game day experience and in their awful attendance numbers. And I feel that the JAR and Akron Basketball has been placed in an identical situation.

TL;DR: Good attendance is what's best for the University; I think overall game day experience plays a large role in attendance; there is no energy or street life surrounding either CSU/JAR and that's part of the reason both venues suck.

Yet (as I said in the previous reply) NONE of that stuff was there UNTIL they built Canal Park. None of that stuff surrounded the Central Market in Cleveland UNTIL they built Jacobs Field and Gund Arena. I could go on and on. If you put the arena on the edge of campus, across from strips that have available space and already some development, you can have the same thing on E. Exchange.

Wanting to put it in the Canal Park district is near sightedness to what the campus could have in it's back yard. You don't need short busses to get from residence halls to bars and restaurants on E. Exchange. People driving by campus would no longer see abandoned buildings.

About the Convo the Cleveland freaking Crunch sold out the place several times. 13,000 seats plus a couple thousand SRO tickets. If the Vikes can't sell there (and they can't) it's because it's an NBA town, CSU is looked at as a community college, a commuter school, lacking football (and now baseball), lacking a CAMPUS, lacking everything a major college has. I've been to CSU games, and I toured CSU before choosing AKron, it's just never going to happen.

The main thing, to me, is I keep going back to what Tressel and Bowden have said. You want alumni to come back to campus so they see what's going on, and will contribute. Bottom line. Alumni returning to campus have a renewed pride in their school. Something I have experienced myself, and have heard others relate.

I've yet to hear a soccer fan whine about the stadium because it's not next to a beer joint. All I hear is how they love the campus, how impressed they are, how they love the atmosphere.

I just believe THAT is better for the university.

[akzipper]

Akron is much different than CSU. Just because they can't fill their arena, doesn't mean we can't fill one the same size. I'm not saying we will, but you can't say it's not possible. A few factors:

- By 2020 Akron will be twice the size of CSU in terms of enrollment

- UA is not the commuter school it used to be, unlike CSU.

- Akron's fanbase is much bigger. In my life, I've never met anyone who was a CSU fan. Not saying they're not around, just saying that you don't see many people support them the way Akron fans support our programs.

- CSU has the far superior Quicken Loans Arena two blocks away to compete with. Akron has no other Arena.

- Cleveland has the Cavs, Indians, and Browns...Akron? has the Aeros and no sports options during the winter.

I honestly don't care if they build it next to InfoCision, or if they build it downtown. Whatever gives us the nicest/biggest arena in the shortest amount of time. Both locations have their advantages and disadvantages. But at the end of the day I'd go with the Exchange location. Maybe the south side of exchange isn't the best, but the University Park Alliance has big plans for that area.

[ZachTheZip]

Yet (as I said in the previous reply) NONE of that stuff was there UNTIL they built Canal Park. None of that stuff surrounded the Central Market in Cleveland UNTIL they built Jacobs Field and Gund Arena. I could go on and on. If you put the arena on the edge of campus, across from strips that have available space and already some development, you can have the same thing on E. Exchange.

Wanting to put it in the Canal Park district is near sightedness to what the campus could have in it's back yard. You don't need short busses to get from residence halls to bars and restaurants on E. Exchange. People driving by campus would no longer see abandoned buildings.

And the Convo still SOLD OUT for the Cleveland freaking Crunch. If the Vikes can't sell there (and they can't) it's because it's an NBA town, CSU is looked at as a community college, a commuter school, lacking football (and now baseball), lacking a CAMPUS, lacking everything a major college has. I've been to CSU games, and I toured CSU before choosing AKron, it's just never going to happen.

The main thing, to me, is I keep going back to what Tressel and Bowden have said. You want alumni to come back to campus so they see what's going on, and will contribute. Bottom line. Alumni returning to campus have a renewed pride in their school. Something I have experienced myself, and have heard others relate.

I've yet to hear a soccer fan whine about the stadium because it's not next to a beer joint. All I hear is how they love the campus, how impressed they are, how they love the atmosphere.

I just believe THAT is better for the university.

So where do you think supporting businesses will begin to pop up at if we build next to the JAR?

[Spin]

So where do you think supporting businesses will begin to pop up at if we build next to the JAR?

I never advocated for that site. But since you asked, where do you go after basketball games now? Where do you go after soccer games?

Does the location of the soccer stadium HURT it's attendance?

[zippyman23]

Attendance will likely be about the same regardless of where the new arena is built. Downtown might draw more for the bar crowd, but at the same time you are going to lose those students that don’t want to shuttle over there and back. Not every game is on Saturday night, in fact most aren’t. Location is such a small driver of attendance. There is no magical location that will just solve all our attendance issues.

[GP1]

Attendance will likely be about the same regardless of where the new arena is built.

Agreed, which is why it should be on campus. If someone wants to go to a game, they will go to a game. If the possible sites for the games are less than 1 mile, it won't impact a decision by a fan to go or not to go.

[ZachTheZip]

Attendance will likely be about the same regardless of where the new arena is built. Downtown might draw more for the bar crowd, but at the same time you are going to lose those students that don’t want to shuttle over there and back.

More students are downtown on game nights than at the JAR. They live closer to downtown than to the JAR, and there's no need to shuttle anyone anywhere.

[zippyman23]

More students are downtown on game nights than at the JAR. They live closer to downtown than to the JAR, and there's no need to shuttle anyone anywhere.

Students that are downtown on game nights probably aren't students that are interested in the basketball team. Moving things closer to them isn't going to change that. The dorms are still on campus, so yes you will still need to shuttle.

[akzipper]

Students that are downtown on game nights probably aren't students that are interested in the basketball team. Moving things closer to them isn't going to change that. The dorms are still on campus, so yes you will still need to shuttle.

A walk to Canal Park from Exchange/Gallucci/Grant Residence halls is no farther than a walk to the JAR. I don't see why it would be that big of a deal, I walked that distance for 4 years to watch basketball games and never once heard anyone complain. People are acting like downtown is like walking to the rubber bowl or something.

[Spin]

A walk to Canal Park from Exchange/Gallucci/Grant Residence halls is no farther than a walk to the JAR. I don't see why it would be that big of a deal, I walked that distance for 4 years to watch basketball games and never once heard anyone complain. People are acting like downtown is like walking to the rubber bowl or something.

That argument doesn't make any sense at all.

First, not all students live in those halls.

Second, Each site that's been discussed is closer to those halls than the JAR.

and third, NOBODY has come up with an argument that Coach T and Coach B say bringing alumni onto campus is a good thing.

I don't buy the entertainment district argument, either. If I want a cold one and a bite after a game, I have absolutely NO INTEREST in going to a college bar. I go to a place close to home where people my age go, where everything is less expensive, where the music doesn't make my skull throb. There's no music at all, there are TV's showing sports. I can't help but wonder how many middle age alum would actually walk into those places.

[lance99]

We can debate to the end of time on where are they going to build the new arena. I have a better question: How are they going to pay for it? I know that it is supposed to be a partnership with the city. However, the city is under "fiscal caution" from the state because they are $87 million in the hole. So if they even put a issue on the ballot, the state will be watching very closely.

Are you willing to pay more fees for the new arena?

Could they get corporate sponsors to help offset the cost?

If so, who? You already have Infocision, Summa and First Merit for the stadium. Just doing a quick scan here in Akron, there is one major player left, and that is Goodyear. Here is a idea, let's go and ask them to just right the check for it right now.

[Spin]

We can debate to the end of time on where are they going to build the new arena. I have a better question: How are they going to pay for it? I know that it is supposed to be a partnership with the city. However, the city is under "fiscal caution" from the state because they are $87 million in the hole. So if they even put a issue on the ballot, the state will be watching very closely.

Are you willing to pay more fees for the new arena?

Could they get corporate sponsors to help offset the cost?

If so, who? You already have Infocision, Summa and First Merit for the stadium. Just doing a quick scan here in Akron, there is one major player left, and that is Goodyear. Here is a idea, let's go and ask them to just right the check for it right now.

That's Jim Tressel's job description. Remember what he said was his first priority when he took the position? And don't forget his boss Dr. Proenza is also a master of finding funding. Look at how many projects are going on or have been completed at the university that are not sports related. Just in the program I was in, we saw huge investment in education. This school is moving forward, despite the economy.

[CincyZip]

Students should not have to pay for this arena.

It should be you alums on this site, making your seven figure salaries.

I already have to pay more for college than you did to enter a job market that is far less than you entered.

Pay for it, have something named after you.

[ziptrumpet87]

We can debate to the end of time on where are they going to build the new arena. I have a better question: How are they going to pay for it? I know that it is supposed to be a partnership with the city. However, the city is under "fiscal caution" from the state because they are $87 million in the hole. So if they even put a issue on the ballot, the state will be watching very closely.

Are you willing to pay more fees for the new arena?

Could they get corporate sponsors to help offset the cost?

If so, who? You already have Infocision, Summa and First Merit for the stadium. Just doing a quick scan here in Akron, there is one major player left, and that is Goodyear. Here is a idea, let's go and ask them to just right the check for it right now.

I think First Energy and Gojo are also big players in downtown. First Energy had some sponsorship of the basketball team last year if I recall. I'm sure there are others downtown also (Dominion East Ohio?). And don't just limit it to companies in downtown. I'm sure there are some larger companies in the 'burbs.

[ZippyRulz]

Students should not have to pay for this arena.

It should be you alums on this site, making your seven figure salaries.

I already have to pay more for college than you did to enter a job market that is far less than you entered.

Pay for it, have something named after you.

Student fees will not be used for the arena, just as they weren't for the football stadium. Some ignorant people will still call it a waste of money though, even if it doesn't cost them a dime.