UofA's Rhodes Arena Study

[ZZZips]

As an aside to the nonsense.

Don't count on Spicer and Exchange being an option anymore. There is a bid for services with construction start expectation of June 2012 for residential development for 225-400 students mostly associated with Greek and other University clubs.

The area up for proposal (though subject to change based on the Sasaki report most likely) is between Vine and Exchange and Spicer and Goodkirk.

Can you provide a link to this bid. When I searched the purchasing dept active bids page I did not find a residential dorm project on the active list.

[g-mann17]

Can you provide a link to this bid. When I searched the purchasing dept active bids page I did not find a residential dorm project on the active list.

Linky

[Dave in Green]

@g-mann17, thanks for the factual data. It's useful when speculating where an arena might go to know where other facilities are already planned to go.

There's one statement in the proposal that might be loosely interpreted as opening the door for an arena to be part of that development:

The development will include residential support facilities which will be verified during the programming and planning phases of the project. Support facilities may include a community building, recreation activities or other facilities.

But there really isn't enough space in that 2-block area to accomodate the housing described along with an arena, which would likely take up most of a block all by itself. If it was ever in the running, I think it's now pretty safe to write off an arena for the area described in the document:

the two block areas between Vine Street, Goodkirk Avenue, East Exchange Street and Spicer Street

[ZippyRulz]

Linky

Wrought iron? That would be a departure from our existing architecture. Maybe they should stick with glass and titanium for a more contemporary look.

[ziptrumpet87]

Linky

Sounds like the "Greek Village" plan resurfacing. Interesting that there is to be no parking areas for the planned residents. Saw that UA bought the Phi Sig house. Wonder if they are thinking of another parking deck on that block?

[Blue & Gold]

Wrought iron? That would be a departure from our existing architecture. Maybe they should stick with glass and titanium for a more contemporary look.

The Info has wrought iron gates, so they're most likely looking to mirror those.

[MDZip]

A new arena is definitely in the next UA Master Plan.

One Sasaki suggestion of supreme importance to the sports community would be to build a new basketball arena, as many view the existing James A. Rhodes Arena as outdated and inadequate.

Options for arena

Sasaki pinpoints two options. One site is on UA land at the corner of Spicer and Exchange streets, next to InfoCision Stadium. Or UA could partner with the city of Akron to attract funding to build a new arena across from Canal Park where the Akron Aeros play minor-league baseball.

Sasaki does not indicate which of the two sites it prefers, and Curtis has a third idea of his own.

He suggests attaching a new arena with 7,000 seats to the Rhodes Arena and converting the existing space into two practice gyms.

“Having a totally new facility is even more exciting, and whether it’s on Spicer Street or downtown, a new arena is a new arena,” Curtis said. “I could go for any of the three solutions.”

[scottditzen]

^ Wow. That's a bold plan with some much needed upgrades. Improving Bierce, EJ Thomas plaza, Law School, Buchtel Commons etc. will have a dramatic impact for the better. The designs look good.

Anyhow, this alone should open the floodgates:

Sasaki does not indicate which of the two sites it prefers (downtown or next to Infocision Stadium), and Ted Curtis has a third idea of his own.He suggests attaching a new arena with 7,000 seats to the Rhodes Arena and converting the existing space into two practice gyms.

The pic of the JAR in the article is a reminder that it's a pig in need of a ton of lipstick. And that's just the outside. I'd be anxious to see some renderings of what a combined JAR/new arena could look like.

[g-mann17]

I'd be anxious to see some renderings of what a combined JAR/new arena could look like.

Siamese pigs connected by an unnecessary bridge. (sorry "conjoined" pigs)

[akzipper]

A new arena is definitely in the next UA Master Plan.

One Sasaki suggestion of supreme importance to the sports community would be to build a new basketball arena, as many view the existing James A. Rhodes Arena as outdated and inadequate.

Options for arena

Sasaki pinpoints two options. One site is on UA land at the corner of Spicer and Exchange streets, next to InfoCision Stadium. Or UA could partner with the city of Akron to attract funding to build a new arena across from Canal Park where the Akron Aeros play minor-league baseball.

Sasaki does not indicate which of the two sites it prefers, and Curtis has a third idea of his own.

He suggests attaching a new arena with 7,000 seats to the Rhodes Arena and converting the existing space into two practice gyms.

“Having a totally new facility is even more exciting, and whether it’s on Spicer Street or downtown, a new arena is a new arena,” Curtis said. “I could go for any of the three solutions.”

7,000 is too small. It's not like building a football stadium, where you can expand seating from 30k to 50k to 60k etc. Not that it will ever happen to InfoCision, but an arena doesn't have the ability to expand. Once it's built it has to stand the test of time. At 7k we'd still end up being 6th in the MAC. If you're going to shell out millions for a new arena, go big time or we might as well just stay at the JAR.

[GP1]

If you're going to shell out millions for a new arena, go big time or we might as well just stay at the JAR.

How many empty seats do you really want there to be on gameday?

[akronzips71]

A new arena is definitely in the next UA Master Plan.

One Sasaki suggestion of supreme importance to the sports community would be to build a new basketball arena, as many view the existing James A. Rhodes Arena as outdated and inadequate.

Options for arena

Sasaki pinpoints two options. One site is on UA land at the corner of Spicer and Exchange streets, next to InfoCision Stadium. Or UA could partner with the city of Akron to attract funding to build a new arena across from Canal Park where the Akron Aeros play minor-league baseball.

Sasaki does not indicate which of the two sites it prefers, and Curtis has a third idea of his own.

He suggests attaching a new arena with 7,000 seats to the Rhodes Arena and converting the existing space into two practice gyms.

“Having a totally new facility is even more exciting, and whether it’s on Spicer Street or downtown, a new arena is a new arena,” Curtis said. “I could go for any of the three solutions.”

It MUST be on campus. Residence Hall students (and Frat House residents, many of whom are former dorm residents) are the core of your fan base. They are a captive audience. They don't go home at night. I am not familiar with Downtown today, but back in the 1960's downtown was your basic Red Light district with roving bands of whatever. The only students you would ever see walking around downtown were "townies" catching a bus home. And never at night.

It has to be convenient and alluring and interesting for the resident students. That is the starting point. If you can't get people who live on campus to attend a basketball game, how are you going to get anyone else to show up? And hoops are played in the winter, so weather is a factor. It has to be close by for the students who live on campus. If it requires a car, bus or long walk in the cold and wet they won't go.

[ZachTheZip]

It MUST be on campus. Residence Hall students (and Frat House residents, many of whom are former dorm residents) are the core of your fan base. They are a captive audience. They don't go home at night.

Have you been to a game? Greeks only show up once a year, on Greek night, and only then because they are forced to. Residents show up just enough to fill a few rows of seating.

Our core fan base is alumni and the students that live in off-campus housing across from campus (in many ways they are more loyal, numerous, and better fans than most residents).

I am not familiar with Downtown today, but back in the 1960's downtown was your basic Red Light district with roving bands of whatever. The only students you would ever see walking around downtown were "townies" catching a bus home. And never at night.

Clearly. Downtown Akron today has taken many steps towards becoming an oversized college town. All the bars on Main Street are college bars, many of the people walking around during the day are students. Most of the negative element that used to dominate the area has relocated outward, to the south and west.

It has to be convenient and alluring and interesting for the resident students. That is the starting point. If you can't get people who live on campus to attend a basketball game, how are you going to get anyone else to show up? And hoops are played in the winter, so weather is a factor. It has to be close by for the students who live on campus. If it requires a car, bus or long walk in the cold and wet they won't go.

Yes, it has to be convenient and alluring to students, and to anybody else who might want to come. Putting it where the JAR currently stands is neither of those things. There's nowhere to go before or after the game, it's not easy to get to for residents ("on campus" doesn't mean squat if it's the opposite side of campus from 80% of your residents, who live closer to downtown than to Route 8). Things have changed. Big time. And I hope you don't form your opinion on where an arena should go based on 50-year old knowledge of the area.

I'm for the corner of Spicer and Exchange, across from Subway. It's close enough to the the restaurants on Exchange that it makes a trip to the game more attractive, it's not any more difficult to get to for students than where the JAR sits now, and Lot 9 provides better parking than the JAR has. Downtown is the second option. There are things to do, and it's the closest to the students. Ask any current student whether it's easier for most on-campus and near-campus students to get to where the JAR is now or to a location across from Canal Park and almost all of them will say Canal Park. The worst option is to built over or next to the JAR. Location is as much of a reason for our attendance problems as the actual facility.

[akronzips71]

Have you been to a game? Greeks only show up once a year, on Greek night, and only then because they are forced to. Residents show up just enough to fill a few rows of seating.

Our core fan base is alumni and the students that live in off-campus housing across from campus (in many ways they are more loyal, numerous, and better fans than most residents).

Clearly. Downtown Akron today has taken many steps towards becoming an oversized college town. All the bars on Main Street are college bars, many of the people walking around during the day are students. Most of the negative element that used to dominate the area has relocated outward, to the south and west.

Yes, it has to be convenient and alluring to students, and to anybody else who might want to come. Putting it where the JAR currently stands is neither of those things. There's nowhere to go before or after the game, it's not easy to get to for residents ("on campus" doesn't mean squat if it's the opposite side of campus from 80% of your residents, who live closer to downtown than to Route 8). Things have changed. Big time. And I hope you don't form your opinion on where an arena should go based on 50-year old knowledge of the area.

I'm for the corner of Spicer and Exchange, across from Subway. It's close enough to the the restaurants on Exchange that it makes a trip to the game more attractive, it's not any more difficult to get to for students than where the JAR sits now, and Lot 9 provides better parking than the JAR has. Downtown is the second option. There are things to do, and it's the closest to the students. Ask any current student whether it's easier for most on-campus and near-campus students to get to where the JAR is now or to a location across from Canal Park and almost all of them will say Canal Park. The worst option is to built over or next to the JAR. Location is as much of a reason for our attendance problems as the actual facility.

It is only 41 years but who is counting?

The Greeks were always too self involved, and the residents apathetic. That is your first task, to change that.

[akzipper]

How many empty seats do you really want there to be on gameday?

Do we want to be a mediocre MAC team forever? or do we want to strive to be better. Like I said a 7,000 seat arena would put us 6th in the MAC, and the Big East that would put us last. It may never happen, but what if 10 years down the road we become a bigger force in college basketball? A consistent top25 team would easily outgrow an arena of just 7,000 and leave us right where we started. Wondering why we built an arena so small and having long discussions here on where we should be a replacement. Another thing to remember, UA wants to be at about 40,000 enrollment by 2020 and with so many new housing options there's no doubt more students will be attending games.

[skip-zip]

It MUST be on campus. Residence Hall students (and Frat House residents, many of whom are former dorm residents) are the core of your fan base.

"Core" of the fanbase? You can darn near count these people on your hands and feet on some nights.

[Jalapeño Zippy]

From what I have seen...the students go downtown at night. The arena should be across from Canal Park. Great after game scene as suggested for those who want it and ample parking with Polsky Deck and the lots surrounding. I would build it to 12,000 but do what the Q does during the MAC Tournament...curtain off the upper tier and pack the fans in, close to the court. That way if/when we get to a larger conference, the curtain can be opened (preferably before then) and larger capacity is available.

[GP1]

Do we want to be a mediocre MAC team forever? or do we want to strive to be better. Like I said a 7,000 seat arena would put us 6th in the MAC, and the Big East that would put us last.

Again....How may empty seats do you want to see on gameday? How is a half empty arena good for the program?

If we join the Big East, in basketball we will be last in more than one category. The size of the arena won't matter at that point.

[Spin]

On campus. Just like Terry Bowden said in his recent interview, you want the alumni to come TO CAMPUS to see the buildings you want them to pay for. Not to mention bringing the general public TO CAMPUS shows/reminds them this is not a community college. That the university is BIG and a valuable resource.

Students will go or won't go wherever you build it. The fund raisers want the alumni ON CAMPUS and many of the alumni want to go ON CAMPUS to the games.

[scottditzen]

On campus. Just like Terry Bowden said in his recent interview, you want the alumni to come TO CAMPUS to see the buildings you want them to pay for. Not to mention bringing the general public TO CAMPUS shows/reminds them this is not a community college. That the university is BIG and a valuable resource.

Students will go or won't go wherever you build it. The fund raisers want the alumni ON CAMPUS and many of the alumni want to go ON CAMPUS to the games.

I respectfully disagree. I'm with Zach on this. When I return to Akron for basketball games I want a better and more lively game day experience all around. I want to be in an area with critical mass, in close proximity to bars and restaurants. The worst option mentioned imho is to build next to the JAR.

[RootforRoo44]

I respectfully disagree. I'm with Zach on this. When I return to Akron for basketball games I want a better and more lively game day experience all around. I want to be in an area with critical mass, in close proximity to bars and restaurants. The worst option mentioned imho is to build next to the JAR.

Well aren't you all forgetting that the old Zip Strip is turning into a pretty awesome bar scene now as well? The way things are going, in the next few years you'll be able to build in either place and still get a pretty hoppin' area nearby.

Btw, i'm all for building in place of the current baseball field or on the corner of spicer and exchange. The latter is especially great because it's right next to the highway and would be an amazing sight driving down route 8 to see the huge football stadium and snazzy new arena side by side.

[scottditzen]

Well aren't you all forgetting that the old Zip Strip is turning into a pretty awesome bar scene now as well? The way things are going, in the next few years you'll be able to build in either place and still get a pretty hoppin' area nearby.

Btw, i'm all for building in place of the current baseball field or on the corner of spicer and exchange. The latter is especially great because it's right next to the highway and would be an amazing sight driving down route 8 to see the huge football stadium and snazzy new arena side by side.

I'm actually not really impressed with BW-2's or Pints (is that still the name?) those places are well below average on the quality bar/restaurant scale.

I'd rather see the baseball field remain green space.

Finally, I'm not saying there's zero value to consolidating our football/bball sports venues, but really, what is the major benefit of doing that? There's current and future parking options all around campus. During basketball games the Info will likely be an empty and barren dead zone.

I'd be more sold on an Exchange location IF a better entertainment district was in the works. Actually, I'm sure it is, but what is the time line on that? Plus, Route 8 is a barrier (industrial zone) that will limit growth in that direction down Exchange. On the other hand, almost the entirety of downtown is trending upward.

[taxpayer]

Some things I think I think:

10,000 max seating on a new arena; I think 8,500 with some corporate box options is preferable. Make it uncertain by building under demand, whether you can get tickets for the big games. That would drive season ticket sales which is the life blood next to alumni donations in all successful programs.

I know this is radical but want more students and a better gameday atmosphere - how about better student seating? Can they enter the building via the front doors too?

Concessios - eliminate current operator and approach local establishments who understand marketing, quality, availability and pricing. If none are interested just sell game day popped pocorn and byo concessions.

At this point I guess the track will never be eliminated to provide better seating so give the powers that be bar stools with rollers and let them stage races around the track during time outs. Winner gets to sit on the bleacher of his/her choice and the losers have to sit on 1st row seating on the track.

[yazan07]

I think that people have become so stuck on the on-campus/off-campus discussion and the fact that off-campus is automatically bad, that they haven't thought of the practical implications of those locations.

We all know that the Rubber Bowl, located 12 minutes from campus, was not an ideal situation for bringing people to campus and campus life in general. Luckily downtown Akron isn't 12 minutes from campus. Now, it is true that downtown is technically off campus (though if our stadium was there, then technically that would be part of campus haha) and that the corner of Spicer and Exchange is on campus. But besides that one distinction that we have become fixated on, what are the other differences between the areas?

Well downtown is close to the Barley House, which is the university pegs as it's "post-game party spot" or whatever. That is just one of several bars down there. Also Lock 3 is down there, nice restaurants, not nice restaurants, and yeah the Polsky deck would make parking there not an issue.

That corner of Exchange and Spicer, the surrounding area just isn't very nice right now. If they are going to develop it, then maybe it would be more suitable, but as it is, I don't think so. There is a subway and a funeral home across the street. That's it. I think Manny's would also be a good hang out spot, but still there's not much else there. Downtown, I would feel like the arena would be in the middle of stuff, if it was on that corner, it would have stuff to one side of it, but as mentioned above, that is pretty much an endpoint for the university. To me, that part of campus is like a dead-end, and almost seems more "outskirt-ish" than downtown would.

Also, for these two locations, I know everyone is saying the proximity to students is important, but it really is a non-factor. The distance between where most of the residence halls are and that corner of campus is about the same as most of the residence halls and downtown. Just because one has the distinction of being on campus, that doesn't automatically make it closer.

Maybe I'm not thinking of the long term effects. But I do think being downtown would be more fun of an atmosphere than being across the street from a funeral home.

[GP1]

College of Charleston

I've posted this before, but it is worth a look again. Give me something like this with 2,500 more seats and it is enough. Enough with the 10-15,000 seat nonsense (even worse with curtains trying to fool people into believing their tax dollars weren't a complete waste of money). CoC is located in Charleston (a very different city than Akron), but is its own section of town, like UofA is. I drove by it yesterday and thought of the Zips. When you drive by, you would never know it was a basketball arena if it wasn't for the signs. Fits the historic town perfectly. UofA needs an arena that fits the look and feel of the new campus, not the look and feel of the City of Akron.

A packed stadium is better than a half empty stadium with an empty promise of a bigger conference down the road.

Dr. Proenza has always had a vision for UofA that includes limited partnership with the City of Akron. It works. Any new arena should be on campus.

BTW, the girl:boy ratio at CofC is 3:1 if you are interested. I have a customer who is a dirty old man and likes to meet me at the Starbucks across the street from the main gates to watch girls while they walk around. He schedules his times for meetings for when classes are changing. We like some of our customers for different reasons.....