Penn State - What should NCAA do?

[johnnyzip84]

I thought a lot about this over the past few months, and I voted for the 2-year death penalty because I think it’s become abundantly clear that this was a sickening abuse of power, and the power that Paterno built over the years was a direct result of the money machine he created for the university. I think the only efficient way to get the attention of such an organization is to hit them where it hurts. I don’t buy into the “but this will only hurt the current athletes, who had nothing to do with the scandal” argument. Allow them all free transfers (no sitting out) if need be, but let’s not lose sight of the fact that their potential inconvenience is miniscule in the larger picture.

[ZachTheZip]

The question is not what they should do, but what they can do.

There is a very specific set of rules detailing what it takes for a school to receive the death penalty, and what happened at PSU didn't fall under that. If the NCAA does try to punish them, it would be overturned on appeal easily. The NCAA can't even give them a lesser punishment like lost practice time or recruiting restrictions or probation. Despite the size of both the NCAA rulebook and the Freeh report, there is absolutely nothing in either that suggests that PSU violated even a minor rule. The institution certainly lacked control at PSU, but it wasn't in regards to NCAA the rule set, so the NCAA has no recourse.

The best solution is to prosecute everybody who can be prosecuted. Remove any guilty parties from office.

To suggest that the NCAA should do something is to vastly overestimate their domain and power.

[K92]

The question is not what they should do, but what they can do.

There is a very specific set of rules detailing what it takes for a school to receive the death penalty, and what happened at PSU didn't fall under that. If the NCAA does try to punish them, it would be overturned on appeal easily. The NCAA can't even give them a lesser punishment like lost practice time or recruiting restrictions or probation. Despite the size of both the NCAA rulebook and the Freeh report, there is absolutely nothing in either that suggests that PSU violated even a minor rule. The institution certainly lacked control at PSU, but it wasn't in regards to NCAA the rule set, so the NCAA has no recourse.

The best solution is to prosecute everybody who can be prosecuted. Remove any guilty parties from office.

To suggest that the NCAA should do something is to vastly overestimate their domain and power.

You are right. Being a scumbag, powermad, self righteous, hypocritical child molestation enabler is not specifically addressed in the NCAA bylaws.

I voted for death penalty anyway.

[GP1]

Do nothing is my vote so I didn't vote. Keep out of it isn't an option for me as I believe the NCAA could require schools to highlight potential problem issues such as this. There is something or them to do, but not one of the options.

The NCAA is set up to give out penalties to schools where money exchanges hands. They do a terrible job of it.

The NCAA is not set up, nor they have the moral standing, to issue rulings on matters such as the PSU case. I can see them actually being worse than they are at giving penalties for money if they give out penalties for moral issues. It starts a slippery slope for a car being driven by morons.

The folks guilty at PSU are paying through the legal system. Paterno is dead. The NCAA should do nothing about this issue until the legal matters surrounding this case close. It could be years. By the time it is over, PSU will be what it was going to be sooner or later after Paterno retired even if the Sandusky issue didn't happen. PSU is going to be in worse shape than having the death penalty...they are going to become The University of Illinois Version 2.0. They are dead either way.

[blueandgold]

Even if the NCAA can't do anything, the Big Ten should give them the boot. I think all D1 conferences should shun them and relegate them to a lower level of play.

[GP1]

Deadspin makes some good serious points (sports writers are easy to make fun of. nobody does it because they would have to make fun of themselves.) and then does something funny.

[skip-zip]

The question is not what they should do, but what they can do.

There is a very specific set of rules detailing what it takes for a school to receive the death penalty, and what happened at PSU didn't fall under that. If the NCAA does try to punish them, it would be overturned on appeal easily. The NCAA can't even give them a lesser punishment like lost practice time or recruiting restrictions or probation. Despite the size of both the NCAA rulebook and the Freeh report, there is absolutely nothing in either that suggests that PSU violated even a minor rule. The institution certainly lacked control at PSU, but it wasn't in regards to NCAA the rule set, so the NCAA has no recourse.

The best solution is to prosecute everybody who can be prosecuted. Remove any guilty parties from office.

To suggest that the NCAA should do something is to vastly overestimate their domain and power.

THis is interesting.

No matter how awful the circumstances at Penn State, I've been wondering if the NCAA, who deals with issues in recruiting, fair competition, etc., can levy any penalties against a University when criminal acts are committed by their athletic officials that are outside of the things that they regulate.

[Wally B]

Yeah, but I would guess Penn State would reserve the right to fire an individual, or rescind partnerships, with anyone or anybody found to be fostering a culture of molestation... By that simple measure, Penn State represents the NCAA, period. As such, the NCAA should have the right to protect its brand. I also can't imagine a group of schools following PSU out of the NCAA in protest of any penalties that are ultimately levied against the school for fear of being seen in support of molestation.

You really have to set the spirit of competition aside on this one, and view it purely from a legal and business point of view. Only then can we truly recognize what a pile of crap this whole thing is. Truely one of the greatest falls in sports, maybe world, history

[Wally B]

Deadspin makes some good serious points (sports writers are easy to make fun of. nobody does it because they would have to make fun of themselves.) and then does something funny.

Trust me: the only people who think Penn State is some kind of revered academic institution are people who went there, and people who went there are stupid. Call me when you have a degree from PENN, not its woodchuck third cousin.

[kr35]

Trust me: the only people who think Penn State is some kind of revered academic institution are people who went there, and people who went there are stupid. Call me when you have a degree from PENN, not its woodchuck third cousin.

I'll assume you didn't know that a second-generation Penn State alumnus lurks here and give you a pass on that. I'm willing to put the education I received up against anyone, UPenn grads included.

I'm not posting to stick up for PSU though - in fact, I'm disappointed it came up on this board because UA sports has been one of my refuges from that s***storm. When I first elected to get my master's from Akron (before this all exploded), I decided that I wasn't going to be a typical commuter grad student in that I was going to take pride in the school and not just see it as a means to a degree. Part of that, to me, meant picking one Zips team to root for ahead of all others, including Penn State, and I chose basketball despite my dad being a student manager for PSU's team in his day. Over the last couple of years, I've also developed an affinity for the football and soccer (of course) teams, and I attend as many games of all three of those sports as my schedule allows. My "big" Christmas present(s) last year were a basketball autographed by Coach Dambrot and the team and a soccer ball autographed by Coach Porter and the team, both of which are on display in my living room, not a mancave set aside for such things. I'm a lot newer to all of this than most of you, but I'm extremely proud to be an Akron Zip, especially now.

I can't speak for everyone with ties to PSU obviously, but I'm offended by our portrayal in the national media (I should note that when I say "our," I mean alumni and students, not the school's administration).

My story, in a nutshell, is that I grew up with the football program and was devoted enough to it to pass on Ivy League acceptances - sorry to bust your narrative, Drew Magary - and home-state loyalties (I've lived my whole life in NE Ohio, other than four years) to go to State College. I'm a huge sports fan, and believed that Joe Paterno and PSU football were a model for everything good in college athletics, a belief that continued unwaveringly though last November. I'm a life member in the alumni association and a member in the school's athletic donor club with enough points built up to get football tickets. As I sit here typing this, I see my degree on the wall next to my degree of my wife, who I met there, and several other little reminders of where I went to school. Hell, my wife and I were married on campus, our colors were blue and white, our reception tables were named after PSU linebackers, our cake was in the form of the school's main administration building, and we invited the Paternos (who declined, but his wife wrote a nice note on the card). You get the idea.

Basically, for all of you, it's a chance to point and laugh and/or bust out morality diatribes. For me though, it's the implosion of an entire belief system and the most important thing to me for most of my adult life (you can argue that family should come first, but PSU has been pretty tightly intertwined with that, as I've mentioned). It's impossible to adequately explain how this all feels, but the fact that I'm up after 3am randomly spilling my guts to all of you is a piece to that puzzle, I suppose.

ANYWAY, my sincere belief is that the NCAA doesn't have the authority to do anything. I don't believe the school gained any sort of competitive advantage from its actions/inactions. Yeah, outing Sandusky immediately maybe would have been a mild PR hit, but not anything that hurts the football program's recruiting or anything like that. In fact, by acting as most say they should have, Paterno and the school arguably would have ENHANCED their reputation. They couldn't have prevented Sandusky's pedophilia in the first place, but giving the sledgehammer treatment to a revered part of the program's tradition once he was discovered would have ultimately been good for PR, IMO. Honestly, the fact that nobody saw it that way is the single thing that has me scratching my head as much as anything else. It's sort of a dangerous precedent too, tying NCAA violations to criminal behavior. If a Sandusky gets a school the death penalty, do you lose a scholarship for every second player caught underage drinking?

That's what my brain says. My heart says burn the place to the ground. On some level, I would get a good deal of satisfaction if the football program was wiped out indefinitely. It would represent a fraction of what they've taken from me.

Sorry for venting to all of you...I just figured it was time for me to speak up on here. Go Zips!

[GP1]

By that simple measure, Penn State represents the NCAA, period. As such, the NCAA should have the right to protect its brand.

The ncaa isn't a brand like the nfl is a brand. There are hundreds of schools in the ncaa. If they are going to start ruling on every law violation every single "athlete-student" makes, they will have to at least double the number of employees the ncaa has. Do we really need more ncaa employees? No.

[GP1]

This was on Every Day Should Be Saturday. There has been a lot of talk about taking the Paterno statue down. Good or bad, leave it up. There are statues of horrible people all over the world. Everyone has the right to look at something and make their own evaluation as to what it is and what it stands for. People do this every day when they go to museums. Leave it up.

*AND THOUGH WE'VE SAID IT BEFORE: leave the statue up. You were the ones who put it up there, and you don't need to waste time and money taking it down. History is history, and as nice as it would be to confine the nasty bits to the dustbin, this one weighs too much to move. You made it, you live with it, and you try to explain that to whomever cares to ask about it. We spent a lot of our youth in a town with a confederate soldier on a pillar in the middle of a town square, and when our children ask who that is, we'll say "a poor person who was probably as racist and ignorant as his neighbors, and angry enough at life to be duped by shitbag plantation owners into running headlong into a line of cannons. He probably regrets a lot of it, and now most people driving by think he's a Duane Allman, Tim Richmond, or Keith Whitley memorial or something. Let's not have you go to war, ever, okay?"

For the record, our Civil War ancestor deserted, most likely because the food sucked and he ran out of underwear. We've read the letters. He complains about the food a lot, so we're pretty certain we're related by blood and by name. We salute his strategic acumen, and hope he got some decent country ham when he got home.

[Lee Adams]

Always intriguing when the sports world encounters something that is difficult for them to connect to sports. Its interesting to see people gnashing their teeth about this because they can't understand how the president of a university,the athletic director,the head coach etc,etc. could allow something like this to occur. It happens thousands of times daily to all kinds of vulnerable children. We don't unfortunately hear about all of THEM because they weren't connected to a major,money making football program at a major university. I work with kids who are victims. I work with the adults who victimize them. It happens like this in families all the time. The kids are scared, relatives know but don't come forward. They ignore what they know. Keep it in the family unit. Its embarassing.Its not hurting anyone else is the sick rationalization. Think of Penn State as an extended family. Its the same type of thinking. Its sick rationalization of despicable behavior in hopes that nobody else will notice.

I wish people would get as upset about this type of criminal behavior ALL the time. Unfortunately,children are the least represented population in our society. Its easier to go to work and a football game than it is to deal with this issue.

[johnnyzip84]

Always intriguing when the sports world encounters something that is difficult for them to connect to sports. Its interesting to see people gnashing their teeth about this because they can't understand how the president of a university,the athletic director,the head coach etc,etc. could allow something like this to occur. It happens thousands of times daily to all kinds of vulnerable children. We don't unfortunately hear about all of THEM because they weren't connected to a major,money making football program at a major university. I work with kids who are victims. I work with the adults who victimize them. It happens like this in families all the time. The kids are scared, relatives know but don't come forward. They ignore what they know. Keep it in the family unit. Its embarassing.Its not hurting anyone else is the sick rationalization. Think of Penn State as an extended family. Its the same type of thinking. Its sick rationalization of despicable behavior in hopes that nobody else will notice.

I wish people would get as upset about this type of criminal behavior ALL the time. Unfortunately,children are the least represented population in our society. Its easier to go to work and a football game than it is to deal with this issue.

You're absolutely correct, Lee. Let's also not forget the kids who are molested/assaulted by complete strangers. This whole subject is a much larger problem than most of us would like to think. I most definitely was not losing sight of this when I posed the question on what the NCAA should do.

I know some of you have strong libertarian views that fall in line with no NCAA action, but if the NCAA shouldn't act on this travesty what should it act on? I need a little more evidence to convince me that the NCAA is not legally capable of acting on this before I'll accept that as fact.

[Spin]

The question is not what they should do, but what they can do.

There is a very specific set of rules detailing what it takes for a school to receive the death penalty, and what happened at PSU didn't fall under that. If the NCAA does try to punish them, it would be overturned on appeal easily. The NCAA can't even give them a lesser punishment like lost practice time or recruiting restrictions or probation. Despite the size of both the NCAA rulebook and the Freeh report, there is absolutely nothing in either that suggests that PSU violated even a minor rule. The institution certainly lacked control at PSU, but it wasn't in regards to NCAA the rule set, so the NCAA has no recourse.

The best solution is to prosecute everybody who can be prosecuted. Remove any guilty parties from office.

To suggest that the NCAA should do something is to vastly overestimate their domain and power.

You don't consider allowing/covering up child rape on university grounds to continue for how many years to be "Lack of organizational control"?

Because if you do, I have two words for you.

Southern.

Methodist.

[Spin]

The NCAA is not set up, nor they have the moral standing, to issue rulings on matters such as the PSU case.

I disagree, this happened on university property, in PSU football facilities.

If they're going to penalize univrsities for what individuals do in car lots or tatoo parlors, they HAVE to do something about this. The FBI investigation report is right there, the only thing PSU can do is prove the FBI lied.

Good luck...

[GP1]

I disagree, this happened on university property, in PSU football facilities.

If they're going to penalize univrsities for what individuals do in car lots or tatoo parlors, they HAVE to do something about this.

A crime was committed on University property....That's up to the legal system to deal with.

What happened in a tatoo parlor is an interesting way to put it...or not put it. It happened in a tatoo parlor with a guy who was later found guilty of Federal drug charges, players getting free stuff from the drug dealer in violation of ncaa rules and a coach who knew about the drug charges and lied to his boss to win games. The ncaa has clear rules as to what happened in the tatoo parlor and those rules apply to getting free things. It doesn't have clear rules about this. Once it crosses this line, where does it end? tOSU just had ANOTHER player break the law. Third this off season. Urban is easily going to break his Florida record of arrests at this rate. Anyhow, should the ncaa step in about that? Where does it end?

One argument people are going to bring up is, "The NFL rules on things like this all the time." The NFL has 32 teams and those teams have fewer players on them than a college football team. There is a greater legal connection between NFL teams and the NFL. An NFL team can't be an nfl team and not be in the nfl. A college can have sports teams and not be in the ncaa. How many college football teams? How many basketball teams? How many baseball teams?, etc. will they now have to make rulings on legal matters about. Is their staff big enough to handle the additional work? Do we want the ncaa to have a staff to deal with this knowing they aren't even good at the money matters they handle?

It's easy to say, "they HAVE to do something about this". It would be easy to say that about every legal issue that comes up in the 300+ schools in the ncaa. Where does it stop? People need to do something about this issue. The Board of Trustees at PSU is starting to take steps to try and make sure nothing like this happens again. This is a criminal issue that involves a state university and the legal system. That's where it should be handled. Civil cases will soon be filed in court and that is where this issue should be handled. The state saying something is wrong and putting people in jail means more than the ncaa and the idiots who run it saying it, because the state speaks for everyone. What is happening at PSU right now is worse than what the ncaa could do to them. This legal process is going to take years to resolve and the ncaa should not get in the middle of it.

For whatever reason, Americans have come to believe the ncaa is more that what it really is. It is a club that schools join in order to provide some structure to their athletic departments and conferences. It's the Chamber of Commerce for college athletics.

[GP1]

but if the NCAA shouldn't act on this travesty what should it act on?

Non criminal matters.

[K92]

Rick Reilly weighs in. Visit Website

[GP1]

All 3 are off the team too. Including 2 probable starters. Your obsession continues. LOL

Article

Two starters remain on team with no scholarship for the summer. Sound like a tough penalty to me. BTW, Stoneburners parents are wealthy and could have paid his way through OSU without a scholarship. If he needs money for summer classes, he will have no problem.

One back-up kicked off team. Tough decision for Urban. I'm sure #2 linebackers are hard to find.

Starters help a team win...they stay on the team. Back-ups can be replaced and get kicked off. If someone is going to try to prove a point while not risking losing, kicking off the back-up is the way to go. When the Zips had off the court problems with their basketball team last year, I said KD should do the exactly same thing. Urban made the right decision here and should get a pat on the back for keeping his priorities straight. Winning comes first. Integrity comes second.

This thread is about Paterno. Let's keep it that way.

[GP1]

This thread is about the issues at PSU. Let's keep it that way.

[Spin]

A crime was committed on University property....That's up to the legal system to deal with.

What happened in a tatoo parlor is an interesting way to put it...or not put it. It happened in a tatoo parlor with a guy who was later found guilty of Federal drug charges, players getting free stuff from the drug dealer in violation of ncaa rules and a coach who knew about the drug charges and lied to his boss to win games. The ncaa has clear rules as to what happened in the tatoo parlor and those rules apply to getting free things. It doesn't have clear rules about this. Once it crosses this line, where does it end? tOSU just had ANOTHER player break the law. Third this off season. Urban is easily going to break his Florida record of arrests at this rate. Anyhow, should the ncaa step in about that? Where does it end?

One argument people are going to bring up is, "The NFL rules on things like this all the time." The NFL has 32 teams and those teams have fewer players on them than a college football team. There is a greater legal connection between NFL teams and the NFL. An NFL team can't be an nfl team and not be in the nfl. A college can have sports teams and not be in the ncaa. How many college football teams? How many basketball teams? How many baseball teams?, etc. will they now have to make rulings on legal matters about. Is their staff big enough to handle the additional work? Do we want the ncaa to have a staff to deal with this knowing they aren't even good at the money matters they handle?

It's easy to say, "they HAVE to do something about this". It would be easy to say that about every legal issue that comes up in the 300+ schools in the ncaa. Where does it stop? People need to do something about this issue. The Board of Trustees at PSU is starting to take steps to try and make sure nothing like this happens again. This is a criminal issue that involves a state university and the legal system. That's where it should be handled. Civil cases will soon be filed in court and that is where this issue should be handled. The state saying something is wrong and putting people in jail means more than the ncaa and the idiots who run it saying it, because the state speaks for everyone. What is happening at PSU right now is worse than what the ncaa could do to them. This legal process is going to take years to resolve and the ncaa should not get in the middle of it.

For whatever reason, Americans have come to believe the ncaa is more that what it really is. It is a club that schools join in order to provide some structure to their athletic departments and conferences. It's the Chamber of Commerce for college athletics.

You make some good points. But, the idea of penalties is not only to penalize those involved, but also to act as a deterrent to anybody who considers this in the future.

If you suspend the football program for one year, or even take away their home games, other people in other places are going to think twice about hiding all the shit that goes on. I don't believe for a second that Tress and JoPa are the only coaches to cover up criminal activity. They just got caught. And I don't believe for a minute Gordon Bowtie and Gene Smith knew nothing, that there wasn't a deal for Tress to fall on the sword.

In the end it's about ETHICS. Was this an ethics violation to college football.

No easy answers.

[GP1]

But, the idea of penalties is not only to penalize those involved, but also to act as a deterrent to anybody who considers this in the future.

Penalties don't deter. Penalties, by their very nature, are a punishment for wrong doing. They face backward. If PSU is given the death penalty for two years, who is penalized? It seems to me that those directly responsible are either dead or on their way to being on the wrong side of prison bars. Seems to me that is better reason for not allowing this to happen than a football team not playing for a year or two. In the game of prison vs ncaa death penalty, prison wins.

Penalize the fans of PSU? Why? For having childish views of college football and placing someone in higher standing than they should be? Every school should get the death penalty at that point.

There are lots of ways to deter people without punishing those who have done nothing wrong. Those are the solutions that need to be explored.

[Buckzip]

Article

Two starters remain on team with no scholarship for the summer. Sound like a tough penalty to me. BTW, Stoneburners parents are wealthy and could have paid his way through OSU without a scholarship. If he needs money for summer classes, he will have no problem.

One back-up kicked off team. Tough decision for Urban. I'm sure #2 linebackers are hard to find.

Starters help a team win...they stay on the team. Back-ups can be replaced and get kicked off. If someone is going to try to prove a point while not risking losing, kicking off the back-up is the way to go. When the Zips had off the court problems with their basketball team last year, I said KD should do the exactly same thing. Urban made the right decision here and should get a pat on the back for keeping his priorities straight. Winning comes first. Integrity comes second.

This thread is about Paterno. Let's keep it that way.

Oh, you are talking about the 2 that were peeing. LOL. That right there should get them the chair.

You missed the 2 -D-backs that were kicked off the team earlier. Then Klein, the lb, was kicked off too.

Klein was a projected starter. One of the Dbacks was a starter and the other in the 2 deep. Don't let facts interrupt your attack.

LOL...Sorry I didn't include the 2 caught peeing...LOL

[Buckzip]

I do like reading some of the takes here. There are some good ones that I completely agree with.