Dave in Green Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 @SeeTeeZip, I appreciate the passionate support that you and Spin have for the minority position. But the majority has made a solid case about the perennial losing Can't football program coming oh so close to going to the Orange Bowl, and NIU actually getting there by virtue of beating Can't. Had you been a Can't fan equally vocal on the Can't forum at some point in the past, and had you convinced the world that you were right, this might never have happened. But you're a good Zips fan here now trying to tell other good Zips fans that UA is incapable of doing as good or better than Can't? Good luck with that. Don Quixote had better fortune jousting against windmills. A vocal minority that knows when all logical points have been made that it's time to move on is an important thing to have on any forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akzipper Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Akron's football team is more likely to make a BCS game, than our basketball team is at making the Final Four. Yet, I don't hear anyone suggesting they drop to D2. So some people are claiming there will still be football. Really? How is there football if the games don't mean anything? You might as well go watch a freaking intramural flag football game at Buchtel Field. Why...it's still football!!!! To give up on the program entirely is embarrassing. Don't even call yourselves Akron fans if you support quitting, I sure bet Bowden and the Zips believe in quitting. Just stay home next season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Akron's football team is more likely to make a BCS game, than our basketball team is at making the Final Four. Yet, I don't hear anyone suggesting they drop to D2. So some people are claiming there will still be football. Really? How is there football if the games don't mean anything? You might as well go watch a freaking intramural flag football game at Buchtel Field. Why...it's still football!!!! To give up on the program entirely is embarrassing. Don't even call yourselves Akron fans if you support quitting, I sure bet Bowden and the Zips believe in quitting. Just stay home next season... If TB took the progrum to the Flag Football level, might the team win some games? Regarding your assertion about the basketball team, the BB program is FAR, FAR ahead of the football program, years ahead, and your assertion is plainly ridiculous. The Zips playing FCS would look exactly like they do now, except with more wins and better competitive balance. You still get loaded in lot 9 before the game, and the Zips still run onto the Big Dialer to play the game. For God's sake man, in your mind is the MAC like playing in the SEC? Or, to compare, does Joe Akron think it's vastly more attractive to play Ball State than Youngstown State? If your answer is yes, you're WAY too close to the forrest or are just deluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 If TB took the progrum to the Flag Football level, might the team win some games? Regarding your assertion about the basketball team, the BB program is FAR, FAR ahead of the football program, years ahead, and your assertion is plainly ridiculous. The Zips playing FCS would look exactly like they do now, except with more wins and better competitive balance. You still get loaded in lot 9 before the game, and the Zips still run onto the Big Dialer to play the game. For God's sake man, in your mind is the MAC like playing in the SEC? Or, to compare, does Joe Akron think it's vastly more attractive to play Ball State than Youngstown State? If your answer is yes, you're WAY too close to the forrest or are just deluded. That is completely false. Akron being in FCS will not attract the quality of athletes they currently have, nor be able to provide the same amount of scholarships. Ball State may not look more attractive than Youngstown State in terms of interest in NE Ohio, but Akron vs Can't St is way more attractive than Akron vs YSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 That is completely false. Akron being in FCS will not attract the quality of athletes they currently have, nor be able to provide the same amount of scholarships. Ball State may not look more attractive than Youngstown State in terms of interest in NE Ohio, but Akron vs Can't St is way more attractive than Akron vs YSU. Why are you so confident that the quality of recruits will drop? The Zips are already recruiting FCS players, who then lose prodigiously at the low FBS level. Regarding playing Can't State, they've been playing each other every year for, well, forever as far as I'm aware. I would hope that the game pitting the two state schools 7 miles apart would continue, and in fact I'd love to see a renewed emphasis on the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZipster0305 Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 That is completely false. Akron being in FCS will not attract the quality of athletes they currently have, nor be able to provide the same amount of scholarships. Ball State may not look more attractive than Youngstown State in terms of interest in NE Ohio, but Akron vs Can't St is way more attractive than Akron vs YSU. If we're going to schedule an FCS school every year, I'd prefer it be YSU. I think their fans would travel well, and there is some history to the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 Ok like I've said the Browns have been bad since 99. I just watched them get blown out yet again. Why can't they just drop down to the Arena league? Just think of how good they would be playing against all those terrible teams. Do you really want to see the Shurmur gameplan in Arenaball??? "Well, you know a field goal is almost as good as a touchdown. If you have a couple of them." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 Akron's football team is more likely to make a BCS game, than our basketball team is at making the Final Four. Yet, I don't hear anyone suggesting they drop to D2. So some people are claiming there will still be football. Really? How is there football if the games don't mean anything? You might as well go watch a freaking intramural flag football game at Buchtel Field. Why...it's still football!!!! To give up on the program entirely is embarrassing. Don't even call yourselves Akron fans if you support quitting, I sure bet Bowden and the Zips believe in quitting. Just stay home next season... So the Aeros are quitters because they play in AA... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akzipper Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 So the Aeros are quitters because they play in AA... A more fitting analogy would be saying that you want the Cleveland Indians to drop down to AA since they had a few bad seasons. Small market baseball teams have the same disadvantage as mid majors do in college sports. Yet every year there are a handful of small teams/schools that make some noise. Would you suggest moving a team like the Indians, Pirates, or Twins down to the minor leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 So the Aeros are quitters because they play in AA... What a horrible example to use to attempt to get your "point" across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 A more fitting analogy would be saying that you want the Cleveland Indians to drop down to AA since they had a few bad seasons. Small market baseball teams have the same disadvantage as mid majors do in college sports. Yet every year there are a handful of small teams/schools that make some noise. Would you suggest moving a team like the Indians, Pirates, or Twins down to the minor leagues. In baseball, everyone is "eligible" to play in the World Series. And small market teams do make it, San Francisco and St Louis have won the last three, the last one over Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 What a horrible example to use to attempt to get your "point" across. see above. And just because the majority think one way, doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. The majority of TV viewers can't get enough of awful sit-coms and reality shows. And we won't even talk about elections... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 see above. And just because the majority think one way, doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. The majority of TV viewers can't get enough of awful sit-coms and reality shows. And we won't even talk about elections... I agree with you. But all D1 teams are currently, and will be eligible to play in the BCS national title as well, even though the odds are stacked against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akzipper Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 I agree with you. But all D1 teams are currently, and will be eligible to play in the BCS national title as well, even though the odds are stacked against them. I'm sure you meant all FBS teams are eligible for the BCS National Title. FCS teams are not allowed even if they are still technically considered D1. This is why that level is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 I'm sure you meant all FBS teams are eligible for the BCS National Title. FCS teams are not allowed even if they are still technically considered D1. This is why that level is irrelevant. I guess I should have been more technical, I just dont consider FCS teams D1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 FCS teams are still D-1, just at the FCS level and not the FBS level. If you're an FBS team not in the top several programs, you have the chance to play in the Beef 'O Hunky Nobody GivesAShiite Bowl, played in some decrepit stadium in Tampa with the stands 1/3rd full and the turf in terrible shape. If you are an FCS team, you have the chance to play in an honest to goodness playoff bracket for the national championship. Whether anybody wants to admit it, Akron is already FCS. The players are FCS level (maybe), they win games against FBS opponents at an FCS rate, they play in front of FCS crowds and the level of interest in the local area is that of an inferior FCS program. Let's just call it what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 FCS teams are still D-1, just at the FCS level and not the FBS level. If you're an FBS team not in the top several programs, you have the chance to play in the Beef 'O Hunky Nobody GivesAShiite Bowl, played in some decrepit stadium in Tampa with the stands 1/3rd full and the turf in terrible shape. If you are an FCS team, you have the chance to play in an honest to goodness playoff bracket for the national championship. Whether anybody wants to admit it, Akron is already FCS. The players are FCS level (maybe), they win games against FBS opponents at an FCS rate, they play in front of FCS crowds and the level of interest in the local area is that of an inferior FCS program. Let's just call it what it is I can't disagree with the logic. The question is what we should do about it. My guess is in the next few years, the BCS schools are going to do to us what we can't seem to do for ourselves, and that is a separation from them on a structural level. We, meaning non BCS schools, won't do anything because the ADs don't want a retraction on their resumes especially if it makes sense. The BCS schools will do it because it makes sense and more money. Like it or not, there are lots more changes ahead. I think we are seeing the beginning of changes and not the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZipster0305 Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 FCS teams are still D-1, just at the FCS level and not the FBS level. If you're an FBS team not in the top several programs, you have the chance to play in the Beef 'O Hunky Nobody GivesAShiite Bowl, played in some decrepit stadium in Tampa with the stands 1/3rd full and the turf in terrible shape. If you are an FCS team, you have the chance to play in an honest to goodness playoff bracket for the national championship. Whether anybody wants to admit it, Akron is already FCS. The players are FCS level (maybe), they win games against FBS opponents at an FCS rate, they play in front of FCS crowds and the level of interest in the local area is that of an inferior FCS program. Let's just call it what it is. While I don't advocate a drop to D-1AA (yet), this analysis is well-thought and accurate. NIU was super lucky to get a BCS game this year, and it has NEVER happened before for a MAC school. For those of you dreaming of Akron football in such a game, go buy a lottery ticket instead. Also, to anyone who thinks Akron is going to be the next Boise St. in football, the next VCU in basketball, AND remain a powerhouse in soccer is out of their minds. No other non-BCS school has even achieved two of those three...consider, how is Boise St. in basketball? What is VCU's football program like? Neither of those schools have OSU, Florida, UCLA, Texas, or any other D-1A powerhouse in their backyard like we do. Things are changing at the D1-A level, and if we aren't proactive, we are going to be relegated to whatever is left, which will undoubtedly be inferior. In this regard, I agree with all GP1 has said on the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akzipper Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 While I don't advocate a drop to D-1AA (yet), this analysis is well-thought and accurate. NIU was super lucky to get a BCS game this year, and it has NEVER happened before for a MAC school. For those of you dreaming of Akron football in such a game, go buy a lottery ticket instead. Also, to anyone who thinks Akron is going to be the next Boise St. in football, the next VCU in basketball, AND remain a powerhouse in soccer is out of their minds. No other non-BCS school has even achieved two of those three...consider, how is Boise St. in basketball? What is VCU's football program like? Neither of those schools have OSU, Florida, UCLA, Texas, or any other D-1A powerhouse in their backyard like we do. Things are changing at the D1-A level, and if we aren't proactive, we are going to be relegated to whatever is left, which will undoubtedly be inferior. In this regard, I agree with all GP1 has said on the topic. How do you explain schools like Cincinnati and Louisville? There's no reason Akron cannot equal the success of these schools. If things are changing at the FBS level then Akron should follow in the footsteps of the UCF, Houston, and Cincy-type schools. Even if it is so unlikely that a school like NIU makes a BCS game, isn't that better than NEVER getting a chance to play in a meaningful game? Ask a casual fan who won the FCS championship last year, see how many people care. I've seen more people talking about the freaking Little Ceasars Pizza Bowl tonight than I have EVER heard about a lower-division championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZipster0305 Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 How do you explain schools like Cincinnati and Louisville? There's no reason Akron cannot equal the success of these schools. If things are changing at the FBS level then Akron should follow in the footsteps of the UCF, Houston, and Cincy-type schools. Even if it is so unlikely that a school like NIU makes a BCS game, isn't that better than NEVER getting a chance to play in a meaningful game? Ask a casual fan who won the FCS championship last year, see how many people care. I've seen more people talking about the freaking Little Ceasars Pizza Bowl tonight than I have EVER heard about a lower-division championship. If you haven't heard or seen the media coverage regarding Mount Union's perenial D-3 National Championships then you are either off the grid or not living in the region or using its media outlets. Most locals think MU would kick the crap out of Akron! I love college football, but without Akron in one of the bowl games, the only one I care about is the National Championship. All the others are nothing more than exhibition games. As for your mention of Cincy and Louisville, there are about 15 schools ahead of us on an informal list of potential additions to one of the 16 teams in the 4 or 5 new "BCS" conferences. These are the top 64-80 schools in D-1A. We are not among them especially when considering things like endowment and academic acceptance standards (open enrollement). Fair or not, that's how it is. More than anyone, I have advocated for Akron to make a move to a Big East-esque conference or to lead the reformulation of a new conference with the remnants of the Big East, Conference USA, and the best of the MAC. It's now or never. Go big or go home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 If you haven't heard or seen the media coverage regarding Mount Union's perenial D-3 National Championships then you are either off the grid or not living in the region or using its media outlets. Most locals think MU would kick the crap out of Akron! I love college football, but without Akron in one of the bowl games, the only one I care about is the National Championship. All the others are nothing more than exhibition games. As for your mention of Cincy and Louisville, there are about 15 schools ahead of us on an informal list of potential additions to one of the 16 teams in the 4 or 5 new "BCS" conferences. These are the top 64-80 schools in D-1A. We are not among them especially when considering things like endowment and academic acceptance standards (open enrollement). Fair or not, that's how it is. More than anyone, I have advocated for Akron to make a move to a Big East-esque conference or to lead the reformulation of a new conference with the remnants of the Big East, Conference USA, and the best of the MAC. It's now or never. Go big or go home. Then most locals are clueless. You dont love football if all you care to watch is a mythical championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZipster0305 Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 Then most locals are clueless. You dont love football if all you care to watch is a mythical championship. Most locals are clueless, but that's the reality we have. If the BCS Championship is mythical, why bother at all? I think that is a crux of STZ's argument. If we can't play for a National Championship, what is the point? We'd have that opportunity at the D-1AA level. The bowl games are nothing more than a last ditch opportunity to jockey for a variety of subjective poll rankings that don't matter and aren't remembered five minutes after they are released for the final time for the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 Most locals are clueless, but that's the reality we have. If the BCS Championship is mythical, why bother at all? I think that is a crux of STZ's argument. If we can't play for a National Championship, what is the point? We'd have that opportunity at the D-1AA level. The bowl games are nothing more than a last ditch opportunity to jockey for a variety of subjective poll rankings that don't matter and aren't remembered five minutes after they are released for the final time for the season. Thankfully the BCS has came to their senses and finally implemented a playoff, even if it is only 4 teams. I think 8 is the magic number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akzipper Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 If you haven't heard or seen the media coverage regarding Mount Union's perenial D-3 National Championships then you are either off the grid or not living in the region or using its media outlets. Most locals think MU would kick the crap out of Akron! I love college football, but without Akron in one of the bowl games, the only one I care about is the National Championship. All the others are nothing more than exhibition games. I honestly am not from Ohio and didn't even hear about Mount Union until I started going to school at UA, and haven't heard of them since I graduated. Probably the same reason I don't care about rivalries with Can't or OhioU. I get much more excitement out of games against Tennessee, Ok State, Penn State, etc. That's the main reason I've always wanted out of the MAC. It's a regional conference that is way too much like the lower divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 I agree with you. But all D1 teams are currently, and will be eligible to play in the BCS national title as well, even though the odds are stacked against them. Bullshit. A team not in a "legacy" conference can run the table and still not sniff a prayer at making the national championship. All you hear is "Strength of Schedule" "But they didn't BEAT anybody". Now let's assume for a minute MInnesota and Utah go 13-0, are they playing in the BCS Championship Game? They're B10/SEC, right? In other words, there are only 10-15 programs eligible to play in that game. Or win a Heisman. This dream of seeing a MAC team playing Boise State in the BCS title game is pure fantasy. IF there were an 8 team playoff someday, with 1 or 2 "at large" seeds, then I'm all in for Division I-A. Maybe when all the Gordon Gee's and SEC Networks of the world are dead and gone. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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