Plain Dealer poll

[LZIp]

Are you watching the Buckeyes play right now? They look horrible. Those "athletes" you speak of aren't very good basketball players. With OSU, you guard the perimeter and you win. It is that easy.

Well said. OSU has the athletes, but lacks basketball players.

[skip-zip]

They'd open as double-digit favorites. They'd cover . . . easily. But please, feel free to tell me how I'm wrong based on your storied success in the Big Dance.

Typical OSWho Honk.

You like your "storied success"? You mean the fact that you haven't won a title since 1960 ??

OSWho has now lost 3 games in the last two weeks, got absolutely destroyed and mocked today by Wisconsin, and has only beaten 2 teams in the Top 50 all year. They're ranking is in the teens and moving downward.

Meanwhile, Akron goes to 17 in a row, and will gain points this week, and will be on the cusp of the Top-25.

So, other than just being a total Honk, where in your delusional mind do you see this astronomical difference between Akron and OSWho right now?

[Quickzips]

Do I need to bust out the "Don't Feed the Troll" banner for the second time in one day?

OSU is overrated right now and is not playing anything close to their best basketball heading into the last few weeks of the season. They are absolutely primed for an early round upset. Giving up 71 and losing by 22 to Wisconsin is pretty embarrasing for a top 15 team. Wisconsin likes to play their games in the 50s and 60s and they are currently 191st in the country in scoring average. Giving up 71 to them is almost like getting 85 hung on you by most other teams.

Am I guaranteing a Zips win if the two teams matched up? Hardly, but to say that OSU would be a double digit favorite and would cover the spread with ease is plain assanine and doesn't mesh with the available evidence.

[Ozcat]

So, other than just being a total Honk, where in your delusional mind do you see this astronomical difference between Akron and OSWho right now?

I'll play along, respectfully.

1) Akron owns the nation's longest winning streak, and has 4 losses. Yet, you're fighting for national recognition (rightfully so - the season you're putting together is solid) while OSU has 7 losses, and will still be sitting right around #20 in the polls. There's a reason for that. They don't have a single "bad" loss.

2) Look at Wisconsin's record in the Kohl Center. They rarely lose on their floor, ever. They're likely 3 weeks from playing themselves into a #2 seed and top 10 ranking. Losing by 20+ is a beatdown, no doubt. How much should be read into it? You tell me. I remember a 20+ point massacre in Athens last season that you seemed to recover quite well from.

3) If Akron played in the Big Ten, how well do you think you'd be doing? Despite your best effort, you couldn't even knock off the 8th best team in Northwestern last season. Best case scenario, .500 AT BEST. I love the MAC, but don't kid yourselves. 8-8 or 9-7 in the Big Ten this season is more impressive than 15-1 or 14-2 in the MAC. Sucks sometimes, but perception is reality.

I hope Akron wins every game except in Athens the rest of the year, and sets up an epic matchup in Cleveland. The Zips and Bobcats are NCAA worthy squads. But we all know how life in the MAC works. One night in Cleveland - winner take all. I love the optisim on this board. But before you start dreaming of Elite Eight runs and Buckeye domination, it'd be nice to see you take care if business when it counts and win an actual NCAA Tourney game. Best of luck. Keep rolling and representing the MAC well.

[ZachTheZip]

3) If Akron played in the Big Ten, how well do you think you'd be doing? Despite your best effort, you couldn't even knock off the 8th best team in Northwestern last season. Best case scenario, .500 AT BEST. I love the MAC, but don't kid yourselves. 8-8 or 9-7 in the Big Ten this season is more impressive than 15-1 or 14-2 in the MAC. Sucks sometimes, but perception is reality.

With respect, that game against Northwestern was NOT our best effort, not by a long shot. The team was shell-shocked and lethargic, save for our seniors.

[Ozcat]

With respect, that game against Northwestern was NOT our best effort, not by a long shot. The team was shell-shocked and lethargic, save for our seniors.

Fair enough. I vaguely remember watching that game and expected the regular season MAC Champ to handle Northwestern. I was a bit surprised and disappointed they couldn't pull it off.

[Zipgrad01]

Fair enough. I vaguely remember watching that game and expected the regular season MAC Champ to handle Northwestern. I was a bit surprised and disappointed they couldn't pull it off.

The game was also at Northwestern, who by the way played OSU to a 75-73 score there last year.

We have one common opponent this year, being Penn State. We slaughtered them by 25, while OSU struggled all game and eventually pulled out a 65-51 win. The game was about 5 or 6 points with 2 or 3 minutes left.

I am not saying that we beat OSU, but saying they would easily beat us by double figures is laughable.

[ksu sucks]

I love the optisim on this board. But before you start dreaming of Elite Eight runs and Buckeye domination

Keep beating up that straw man. The majority of our fanbase wants a MAC Championship and some NCAA wins. I don't see many fans(anyone?) seriously predicting an elite 8 run or buckeye "domination".

[Ozcat]

We have one common opponent this year, being Penn State. We slaughtered them by 25, while OSU struggled all game and eventually pulled out a 65-51 win. The game was about 5 or 6 points with 2 or 3 minutes left.

Please don't use the common opponent metric. Akron struggled in the JAR with CMU and Buffalo before dispatching them both. Ohio handled both with relative ease. In no way does this infer that Ohio is better than Akron. Everyone knows the transitive property does not work in sports.

Like any team, the Bucks have good and bad games. They nearly handled Duke in the toughest gym in the country, took a quality UM team to OT in Ann Arbor (and beat them in Colimbus) and were within 3 in East Lansing. I can assure you they wouldn't be "terrified" to matchup against the Zips. They'd also be the best team Akron has seen all year.

This talk is hilarious on another level. IF Akron reaches the Dance, which is not guaranteed, they'll likely be a 12 or 13 seed. OSU has more than a handful of tough games remaining and could find themselves as a #6. The chances of this matchup becoming reality are slim to none.

[akzipper]

Keep beating up that straw man. The majority of our fanbase wants a MAC Championship and some NCAA wins. I don't see many fans(anyone?) seriously predicting an elite 8 run or buckeye "domination".

Nobody has said that around here. OhioU fans have been fabricating our "claims" for the entire season. Every college team should have a goal to win a championship. If not what's the point of playing the game? Nobody is predicting postseason success, just setting goals for a team. At the end of the day I'd rather spend my time being a fan of my team, the Zips, while other schools can bash us all they want. Just shows a lot about their character...There are even a few screwballs on twitter who have been bashing us for weeks.

[skip-zip]

I can assure you they wouldn't be "terrified" to matchup against the Zips.

Again, nobody is saying that. You just keep touting the "easy covering" of a double digit margin, and any basketball fan with a sane mind realizes that there isn't much separating these two teams right now.

We've mentioned the two teams small difference in the national polls, and that Akron is trending upward and OSWho downward. And that Akron played better against the only common opponent this year. Isn't that enough for you to acknowledge that not much separates these two teams? Or, are you the typical OSWho honk who walks around this state with far more excuses for OSWho failures than facts.

[LZIp]

I dont think anybody thought OU (besides their fans maybe) had a chance against UM last year. You play the game for a reason. There is parity in college bball this year. A good chance for whoever the MAC representative is to make some noise again.

[Dave in Green]

I think the original statement was that the Zips would be a nightmare matchup for tOSU this season. I agree with this based on the fact that this is UA's best team and tOSU's team is one of their weaker ones when compared with other seasons. The chances for an upset would be greater this season than almost any other. The nightmare would be for mighty tOSU to be upset by insignificant UA. It would shake the state of Ohio's basketball foundation much more than OU upsetting Michigan last season or tOSU losing to an upstart mid-major from far across the country. Ohioans generally believe that no mid-major Ohio basketball team could possibly upset mighty tOSU, and that's why being matched against any Ohio mid-major in the NCAA tournament would be a nightmare matchup for tOSU.

[RowdyZip]

I think the original statement was that the Zips would be a nightmare matchup for tOSU this season. I agree with this based on the fact that this is UA's best team and tOSU's team is one of their weaker ones when compared with other seasons. The chances for an upset would be greater this season than almost any other. The nightmare would be for mighty tOSU to be upset by insignificant UA. It would shake the state of Ohio's basketball foundation much more than OU upsetting Michigan last season or tOSU losing to an upstart mid-major from far across the country. Ohioans generally believe that no mid-major Ohio basketball team could possibly upset mighty tOSU, and that's why being matched against any Ohio mid-major in the NCAA tournament would be a nightmare matchup for tOSU.

This is also the reason why the powers that be in Columbus would never "let" it happen. If Akron (or any other remotely powerful in-state rival) faces OSU is if it's after an improbable run deeper in the tournament.

[Ozcat]

I dont think anybody thought OU (besides their fans maybe) had a chance against UM last year.

Did you pay attention at all to anything last March? Multiple "experts" (I use this term lightly) had Ohio pulling the upset. They were a trendy upset pick amongst the talking heads.

Akron would matchup well against many teams. I do not believe OSU is one them. When a team can disrupt your PG, it can wreak havoc on your offensive flow. (See: Ohio vs Akron - Round 1) Craft would drive Abreu nuts. And I don't think you have an answer defensively for Thomas.

[LZIp]

Did you pay attention at all to anything last March? Multiple "experts" (I use this term lightly) had Ohio pulling the upset. They were a trendy upset pick amongst the talking heads.

Akron would matchup well against many teams. I do not believe OSU is one them. When a team can disrupt your PG, it can wreak havoc on your offensive flow. (See: Ohio vs Akron - Round 1) Craft would drive Abreu nuts. And I don't think you have an answer defensively for Thomas.

OK so OSU has an advantage at 2 yes, 2 positions. Thomas is a volume scorer and Craft is no offensive threat at all. Give me Zeke and Treadwell over the scrubs like Ravenel and Williams. Give me Walsh over Sam Thompson or Lenzelle, or whatever bum that Matta wants to throw out there that cant hit a jump shot to save his life. Also, give me the depth Akron has over OSU.

NOBODY HAD OU GOING TO THE SWEET 16 AND TAKING UNC TO OT. If we make the dance guys, we should just decline the bid. No point in playing the game we will lose (even though midmajors are responsible for upsets EVERY YEAR).

Didnt Craft allow WISCONSIN to score 71 points today?!?! LOL. Excuse me, that is hardly shutting down an offense. Especially the offensive juggernaut known as Wisconsin (thats sarcasm, by the way).

[ksu sucks]

Ozcat, you came onto an opposing team's forum and made a very bold claim. Not to mention, you threw a snarky one-liner at the tail end for good measure.

The bottom line is that the burden of proof is on you. You came onto these forums and posted the following:

They'd open as double-digit favorites. They'd cover . . . easily. But please, feel free to tell me how I'm wrong based on your storied success in the Big Dance.

No one in this thread suggested that Akron would roll past OSU. To the contrary, it was mostly reasonable discussion until you came along.

Either you're being inflammatory or you're a homer[i'm assuming you went to OSU...?]. Either way, back up your earlier statement. Otherwise you're just derailing discussion.

[zen]

Guys, OU fans are pissed. They went into the big show (after squeeeeeeking by Akron in the MAC tourney) and got some wins in the dance. They got drunk on the success.

This year, they brought the talent back, and were looking for the party to continue, but someone is stealing their attention, and they don't like it.

I, for one, am not surprised by the resentment.

[Ozcat]

OK so OSU has an advantage at 2 yes, 2 positions. Thomas is a volume scorer and Craft is no offensive threat at all. Give me Zeke and Treadwell over the scrubs like Ravenel and Williams. Give me Walsh over Sam Thompson or Lenzelle, or whatever bum that Matta wants to throw out there that cant hit a jump shot to save his life. Also, give me the depth Akron has over OSU.

That 'scrub' Williams you mention was a McDonalds All-American. He is still developing, to be sure, but he'd hold his own against Zeke. Tree is a great MAC player, but would be nowhere near as dominant against Big Ten talent. If you have a favorable matchup though, it is Tree, though Thomas would likely guard him and is no pushover on D. Brian Walsh over Sam or Lenzelle? I hope that's a joke. Brian would be lucky to get a shot off against Sam, who is a great defender and could probably jump over Brian. And while Craft isn't a offensive machine, it's admitted in this forum that Abreu is a sieve in defense. Craft would net some buckets.

NOBODY HAD OU GOING TO THE SWEET 16 AND TAKING UNC TO OT. If we make the dance guys, we should just decline the bid. No point in playing the game we will lose (even though midmajors are responsible for upsets EVERY YEAR).

Please direct me to where I said anything about the Sweet 16 or UNC. I only cited only the Michigan matchup, and my original post remains true.

Didnt Craft allow WISCONSIN to score 71 points today?!?! LOL. Excuse me, that is hardly shutting down an offense. Especially the offensive juggernaut known as Wisconsin (thats sarcasm, by the way).

I was unaware that one player guards an entire team. Wisconsin also runs a system that doesn't rely on a PG at all, and played their best game of the season today. Would it have been fair to judge your Akron squad last season based on your performance in Athens? Of course not.

Ozcat, you came onto an opposing team's forum and made a very bold claim. Not to mention, you threw a snarky one-liner at the tail end for good measure.

The bottom line is that the burden of proof is on you.

We are engaging in a hypothetical argument. One doesn't know what the outcome would be. The only thing we have to use as basis in discussion are games played and our view of them. Some of you see a team you could beat and matchup well against. I see a team who has 7 losses coming against #2 Duke in Cameron Indoor, #9 Kansas, #11 Illiinois in Champaign, #18 Michigan State in the Breslin Center, #3 Michigan in Ann Arbor, #1 Indiana, and #20 Wisconsin in Madison. There is not a single loss there that any team should be disappointed in. I maintain that OSU is the superior team and would handle Akron. I realize most of you won't agree, and I don't expect to sway your opinion. Just offering my take on a fun and enjoyable discussion.

[Dave in Green]

@zen, I was wondering about the recent burst of Kitty fan interest in ZipsNation, almost as if this was a catnip farm. They're so active here that I've started sneezing every time I log on. I think you may be on to something. They're here to try to divert attention to the past because the present is not such a good place for Kitty fans, let alone the future. On the other hand, the Zips are in the national spotlight this season and loaded with talent for the future.

[LZIp]

Meh, the fact that somebody was a McDonald's All American doesnt mean much to me. We have already played one of them this year in Marcus Smart (projected to go top 5 in draft, btw) and we did just fine against him. In fact, Abreu scored only 1 less point than him.

[ksu sucks]

Just offering my take on a fun and enjoyable discussion.

Feel free to invite the rest of your OU/OSU buddies. Pretty soon we're going to have rename this place bobcatattack.

[Dave in Green]

As long as we've drifted off into Kittyland here, let's take a look at a devastating stat for Kitty fans. StatSheet.com features a stat they call Experience Tracker. It tracks the average class year per minute played. The sum of minutes each player plays is multiplied by their class year (Freshmen = 1, Sophomore = 2, Junior = 3, and Senior = 4) and is divided by the total team minutes.

Out of 347 D-I teams, the Kitties are 345th with a score of 3.48. Only Middle Tennessee State and Valparaiso have more minutes played by seniors who won't be around next season.

By comparison, the Zips rank 176th with a score of 2.72. But the Zips are actually much better than that, as Tree and Harney, who both start and play long minutes, are only technically juniors (3s). In reality they're in their second playing seasons (2s) and expected to petition and get 5th seasons of eligibility based on their good scholastic standing. In other words, the Zips are much, much more loaded with experienced, talented players than the Kitties next season and beyond.

[zen]

@zen, I was wondering about the recent burst of Kitty fan interest in ZipsNation, almost as if this was a catnip farm. They're so active here that I've started sneezing every time I log on. I think you may be on to something. They're here to try to divert attention to the past because the present is not such a good place for Kitty fans, let alone the future. On the other hand, the Zips are in the national spotlight this season and loaded with talent for the future.

For weeks, and perhaps months, they've been telling themselves that this is all a fluke, and the zips are bound to lose. Yet it doesn't happen and their frustration is starting to boil.

Let's put it this way, if the zips weren't undefeated in MAC play, OU would be 10-1 (or perhaps even 11-0 considering their one loss is to Akron) and reveling in roll from last year back on top of the MAC again, claiming the need for national love and attention. They can't quite pull this off properly with Akron stealing the limelight.

I say, let's put some milk out for the poor kitty fans. They are teh sads.

[wadszip]

That 'scrub' Williams you mention was a McDonalds All-American. He is still developing, to be sure, but he'd hold his own against Zeke. Tree is a great MAC player, but would be nowhere near as dominant against Big Ten talent. If you have a favorable matchup though, it is Tree, though Thomas would likely guard him and is no pushover on D. Brian Walsh over Sam or Lenzelle? I hope that's a joke. Brian would be lucky to get a shot off against Sam, who is a great defender and could probably jump over Brian. And while Craft isn't a offensive machine, it's admitted in this forum that Abreu is a sieve in defense. Craft would net some buckets.

Please direct me to where I said anything about the Sweet 16 or UNC. I only cited only the Michigan matchup, and my original post remains true.

I was unaware that one player guards an entire team. Wisconsin also runs a system that doesn't rely on a PG at all, and played their best game of the season today. Would it have been fair to judge your Akron squad last season based on your performance in Athens? Of course not.

We are engaging in a hypothetical argument. One doesn't know what the outcome would be. The only thing we have to use as basis in discussion are games played and our view of them. Some of you see a team you could beat and matchup well against. I see a team who has 7 losses coming against #2 Duke in Cameron Indoor, #9 Kansas, #11 Illiinois in Champaign, #18 Michigan State in the Breslin Center, #3 Michigan in Ann Arbor, #1 Indiana, and #20 Wisconsin in Madison. There is not a single loss there that any team should be disappointed in. I maintain that OSU is the superior team and would handle Akron. I realize most of you won't agree, and I don't expect to sway your opinion. Just offering my take on a fun and enjoyable discussion.

I'm not anti-OSU. I actually root for them to do well (and watch them quite a bit). But this Ohio State team isn't what they've been in recent years, and they are now being exposed in Big Ten play (granted the Big Ten is ridiculous this year). I'll break down what you have said.

1. Amir Williams: First you said that OSU matches up at every position. Now, you are backtracking on that (probably because it's clear to anybody that follows college basketball can see that Zeke is way better at this point). But going back to Williams, while he may have been a burger boy, he hasn't showed anything to this point to justify being ranked that high coming out of high school. Zeke would steal his lunch money. In fact, I think Reggie Keeley (who is all of 6-6, 6-7) would eat him up. Simply, Williams isn't that good and he has no basketball IQ. At this point, he's really a poor-man's Deshonte Riley (same offensive game, but Riley is better shot-blocker and defender). In the hypothetical matchup, Zeke draws two early fouls on Williams and Matta has to try to put Ravenel on Zeke. Ravenel is the better on-the-ball defender and rebounder, but Ravenel is still, at best, a solid MAC player. Zeke has done "alright" against those types this year. While, center is Akron's only glaring advantage, it's a big one, especially when the Zips can run Pat Forsythe off the bench.

2. Thomas vs. Treadwell: This is a matchup that each side has its advantages. Thomas is a tough guard for Treadwell since his game is perimeter oriented. I'm sure Thomas would get his points (he has scored against everybody). However, Thomas is the definition of a finesse player, how would he respond trying to defend a bull-in-a-china-shop type player like Treadwell in the low post? If Tree stays true to who he is right now and goes at him in the post, he will either get a ton of clean looks, or force Thomas to foul. OSU can't afford to get Thomas in foul trouble, so Tree should be able to to have a nice game (and Akron would trade 20 from Thomas if it means Tree gets 13-15 and cleans up the boards). Overall, this is a wash based on contrasting styles. Not a good matchup for either.

3. Thompson vs. Harney: I'll give the advantage to Thompson, just because he is similar to Harney, but is more athletic. But Harney has the size and enough athletic ability in his own right where Thompson wouldn't go nuts (outside of a highlight reel dunk or two a game, he doesn't have much offensive game). Harney, while still trying to figure out how to play in control, does have a nice game around the rim, since he played in the post in H.S. While Thompson is the more explosive athlete, Harney has a knack for being in the right place at the right time, and he won't get up 40-inches like Thompson, but is quick to get off the floor, so his 6-7 at 30-inches is better than Thompson's 6-7 at 40 inches if Harney is consistently a half-second quicker to the spot. Overall, though, this isn't a make-or-break matchup.

4. Smith vs. Walsh: Again, I'll give Smith the advantage. I love his on-the-ball defense. The guy is a bulldog. However, Walsh is a quality defensive player in his own right. Offensively, not much different. Both are guys who have the ability to get hot and be difference makers. This is a matchup, IMO, OSU would have to win. They would need Smith to step up and be OSU's No. 2 scorer. At the same time, Walsh hitting from outside definitely helps Akron's case, but the Zips are deep enough where it wouldn't be make-or-break.

5. Craft vs. Abreu: This is OSU's biggest advantage. As good as Abreu is, Craft is the premier on-the-ball defender in college basketball. And like you pointed out (based on people here's assessments) Abreu is hardly a defensive force. Luckily, as good as Craft is defensively, he is no better offensively than Abreu. ... Craft, being bigger, is better at getting to the rim (though he blows a ton of layups), but Alex is the much better shooter. With that being said, unless Alex plays a smart game, Craft will shut him down and force a ton of turnovers. But one thing to note, Alex is an assassin on the high pick-and-roll when a defender sags off and he goes over the top and gets a clean look from 3. As good as Craft is defensively, if he gets caught up in a Zeke or Tree pick, there really isn't much he can do to stop Alex from getting a clean look.

6. Bench: Akron is deeper and it's not really an argument. OSU can bring Shannon Scott and Laquinton Ross off the bench vs. Akron's Pat Forsythe, Chauncey Gilliam (hopefully healthy), Jake Kretzer and Reggie McAdams. The Akron bench offers more size and more shooters than OSU's. Scott, though, would be big since PG is Akron's biggest weakness (no way could you trust Betancourt getting many meaningful minutes against a team that brings ball-pressure like OSU ... he'll have more TOs than minutes played). However, Forsythe is another big body OSU just doesn't have an answer for (I'll say it again, OSU's front line is average MAC level).

Overall, it would be about tempo. As much as Akron wants to get up and down against teams in the MAC, they don't want to get in that game with Ohio State. Really, getting up and down is the only time (outside of the Michigan game in Ann Arbor) where OSU has had any success. If you get the Buckeyes into a half court game, they struggle. They aren't a good offensive team and maybe a little above average defensive team in the halfcourt. That's why, even if it isn't Akron, OSU's tournament run will be short-lived. They don't have the makeup to make a run unless a team plays right into their hands.

Finally, you bring up Ohio State's schedule. Of course, they have played a murderer's row ... they are in the Big Ten. But they are losing all of those games (outside of home wins against Michigan and Wisconsin). Plus, they lost the the only two non-conference games they played worth anything ... and Kansas was at home (and dominated the second half of that game). Why give OSU credit for losing to a bunch of top teams? I remember Charlie Coles (and some recent Toledo teams) going out and playing everybody available ... and losing. Did those teams get any tourney respect for that? Nope. Why would it be different for OSU?

If you look at it, OSU has two quality wins (vs. Michigan, vs. Wisconsin) and one solid win (vs. Iowa) ... Akron has one quality win (vs. Middle Tennessee State) and one solid win (vs. Ohio). Not much different, especially since OSU has had three-to-four times the opportunity to get quality home wins.