Middle Tennessee Game

[LZIp]

I hope I am not coming off negative, because I really try not to be and try to look at both sides...but while the Miss St win looked good at the time, I'm not sure you could really call it good in hindsight. Miss St finished with a record of 21-12 and lost in the first round of the NIT.

[Dave in Green]

@LZip, thanks for making my point. You can find something negative in everything. But you can also find positives. Then you have to balance the negatives against the positives to come to an overall conclusion. From the negative POV, two seasons ago, Mississippi State self-destructed toward the end of the season and failed to make the NCAA tournament. So that devalues the Zips victory over them early in the season if you choose to look at it only from that perspective.

Now, let's look at a more detailed analysis. Before Mississippi State self-destructed, they were highly rated early in the season. They started off the season 12-1 with wins over teams like Texas A&M, Arizona, West Virginia and Detroit. Their only loss in those first 13 games was to Akron at Mississippi State. It was a seriously good win for the Zips at the time that it happened.

Anyone on this forum could have done what I just did, which was to simply go back and look at the actual record instead of relying on a mostly positive or mostly negative memory.

Why don't more Zips fans do this?

[Sean]

Is it so long ago that people forget that we were 4-4 last season with 2 really bad losses? Last year was a good year and I think most people can agree on that. A recent trend has been not who you beat, but who you lose too. Two losses to good teams on the road is not going to destroy a tournament resume. We do however need to get some good wins, and there is still opportunity to get those wins. What I have seen from our team is a lack of teamwork, especially on offense. I think this problem will be fixed with time, but until then we need to beat the teams we are supposed to beat. Hopefully the team can gain some confidence and make some noise in Hawaii.

[K92]

Do everyone a favor and take your "fandom" somewhere else.

I'm sure you played your D1 ball at a much higher level than the MAC, but the rest of us slobs are pretty happy with our team.

You may not like that ZipGrad is frustrated and venting and you certainly don't have to agree with him, but I can vouch for his "fandom". He is a true-blue Zips fan.

[Valpo Zip]

Dave in Green: Beating Miss. St. was a great start of the season, it turned the heads of some people who never cared about the Zips. I personally know 4 people who live in Akron and don't usually bother to drive 10 minutes to the JAR. They got so excited they bought some Zips gear, booked hotel rooms in Valparaiso, IN, and went on a trip to see the zips the following week. You know what happened?

Lost to Valparaiso, then lost to Duquesne, then I don't remember what else but before you know, we were 3-5.

Then everyone was like: all right, we will see you in March.

[Valpo Zip]

Do everyone a favor and take your "fandom" somewhere else.

I'm sure you played your D1 ball at a much higher level than the MAC, but the rest of us slobs are pretty happy with our team.

When did you become the spokesperson for everyone?

Why don't you do everyone a favor and take your fandom somewhere else?

[Dave in Green]

@Ada Zip, yes, I remember all those games from the start of that season, including the losses to West Virginia and Middle Tennessee. Do you recall any of the details that contributed to those early season losses after the Mississippi State win -- injuries, suspensions, etc.?

[legendofzippy]

When did you become the spokesperson for everyone?

Why don't you do everyone a favor and take your fandom somewhere else?

You strike me as a whiner too.

At any rate, everyone seems to be so concerned about national perception, which I'd say is nearly irrelevant.

Look at Belmont. They've had a nice program for a while, and just upset UNC. Can the average fan tell you what state they're in? Their nickname? Who the coach is?

Beside, we beat MT last year. They're a good program and it's tough to win on the road. If we stink in MAC play, that's different. But so far I don't think Akron has played poorly.

[skip-zip]

Over the past five years Akron has three MAC Titles and Ohio has two MAC Titles. Would I trade the extra MAC Title for three NCAA Tournament wins and a Sweet Sixteen appearance? I'd say so.

That's the other thing everyone might have forgotten about......Besides the Sweet 16 appearance in 2012, OU knocked off #3 Georgetown in the first round of the 2010 NCAA Tournament also, in a major upset.

[Derrt]

Anyone notice Tree not playing the last 5 minutes of the game? Did he get hurt?

[Captain Kangaroo]

But so far I don't think Akron has played poorly.

Yeah. That St Marys' game was great.

[skip-zip]

Mississippi State self-destructed toward the end of the season and failed to make the NCAA tournament. So that devalues the Zips victory over them early in the season if you choose to look at it only from that perspective.

Now, let's look at a more detailed analysis. Before Mississippi State self-destructed, they were highly rated early in the season. They started off the season 12-1 with wins over teams like Texas A&M, Arizona, West Virginia and Detroit. Their only loss in those first 13 games was to Akron at Mississippi State. It was a seriously good win for the Zips at the time that it happened.

Dave,

I often think about the Miss. State game also. Why? Because it might be our biggest OOC win ever. And I'm still proud of that win.

But I think the fact that this win was the Best Ever also makes it stand out as a symbol of frustration for a lot of fans also, in regards to us not being able to get "over the hump" to the next level. Why? Because the fact remains that through the last decade, with all the 20-win seasons, MAC title game appearances, etc., this "Best Ever" win still lost it's significance very quickly, because of the way Miss. State's season played out. So, any hope of turning heads with a "Hey Look...Akron has a win against Miss. State" on our resume quickly vanished.

As I said earlier, we've been pretty darn good over the last decade, so you'd think by now we'd have at least one of those "Hey Look....Akron beat ______" for college basketball fans across the country to talk about. And it just hasn't happened. And I want it to happen so badly.

[GP1]

I often think about the Miss. State game also. Why? Because it might be our biggest OOC win ever. And I'm still proud of that win.

When I saw your comment, I thought it couldn't possibly be true so I did some research. Went back ten years and in that period, you may be right on the money. We have a large list of ooc teams we have lost to in that period and I wouldn't advise anyone to go down the road I just took...too depressing.

Miss State lost in the first round of the NIT that post season.

[Zips Win!]

Did anyone see Belmont vs. NC yesterday? Very impressive- have a big lead, lose it, then come back and execute a perfect last 1.5 minutes. I cant wait for the Zips to duplicate that performance.

[Zipgrad01]

Do everyone a favor and take your "fandom" somewhere else.

I'm sure you played your D1 ball at a much higher level than the MAC, but the rest of us slobs are pretty happy with our team.

I love internet tough guys.

I will keep my "fandom" right here thank you.

[legendofzippy]

I love internet tough guys.

I will keep my "fandom" right here thank you.

You're the tough guy saying it means nothing to beat a MAC team, or a team like North Dakota State.

Let's see a fight between you and any guy on any of those rosters. Your ass gets handed to you in less than 30 seconds.

[ZIPCODE]

Anyone notice Tree not playing the last 5 minutes of the game? Did he get hurt?

Tree lost his composure after turning the ball over at about the 3.50 min mark. He pretty much gave up and didn't even try to get back on defense. KD yanked him. Don't know for sure, but I think he was in the locker room before the game ended.

[Zipgrad01]

You're the tough guy saying it means nothing to beat a MAC team, or a team like North Dakota State.

Let's see a fight between you and any guy on any of those rosters. Your ass gets handed to you in less than 30 seconds.

I am a tough guy because I say that beating NDSU and MAC teams means nothing? Winning in the MAC means something to us, but the rest of the country shrugs their shoulders. We need to beat nationally relevant programs. Joe Akron has relegated the Zips to small time by the start of the MAC schedule because we lose every game that may peek their interest.

As for your last two sentences...sure, ok

[Captain Kangaroo]

You're the tough guy saying it means nothing to beat a MAC team, or a team like North Dakota State.

Let's see a fight between you and any guy on any of those rosters. Your ass gets handed to you in less than 30 seconds.

You are getting way too confrontational with people that disagree with your personal view of Zips basketball. Everyone is growing tired of the escalation.

Once you start driving people away from our board with your tone, and frequency of posting, it becomes a problem.

Please stop it.

[Dave in Green]

@skip-zip, while casual followers of college basketball may look at how that season ended for Mississippi State and conclude that they weren't such a hot team, I knew that you would have a full appreciation for the talent level on that team and how good they were early in the season when the Zips upset them. MSU entered the 2011-12 season loaded with talent and projected to vie for the SEC championship, and I cited their early season success in my previous post. They entered the AP and Coach's Top 25 polls on Nov. 21 and remained there through Feb. 13, rising as high as #14 in the country, even after losing to the Zips.

Arnett Moultrie, a 6-11 junior on that team, was a major talent, leading the team in both scoring and rebounding. Zeke was the only player all season who shut him down. Moultrie declared early for the draft at the end of that season after MSU imploded and was picked in the first round by the Philadelphia 76ers. They just exercised their third year option on Moultrie despite the fact that he's been out after undergoing ankle surgery. He's a solid NBA power forward.

Dee Bost, the 6-2 senior PG, was the team leader. After graduating, he played pro ball in Europe. He was signed by the Portland Trail Blazers earlier this year but just released last month. He's now playing in the NBA D-League with expectations that he'll get another shot at the NBA.

Rodney Hood was a 6-8 freshman small forward. Rivals ranked him the #5 best HS small forward in the country and #16 overall in his national graduating class. He was the team's third leading scorer and rebounder as a freshman. Like Moultrie, he ditched MSU at the end of that season after the team self-destructed and transferred to Duke. This season he's the starting small forward and team captain for Mike Krzyzewski's latest powerhouse team. NBA DraftExpress projects Hood as the #30 pick in the 2014 NBA draft even though he's technically a redshirt sophomore.

Renardo Sidney, an exceptionally talented 6-10, 300-pound junior power forward/center, was MSU's resident head case. He never lived up to expectations, but expectations for him had been sky high. Out of HS, Rivals gave him identical ratings to Hood -- #5 best at his position (power forward) and #16 overall in his national graduating class. Though he never worked to get into good playing condition, he was still the team's second leading rebounder and fourth leading scorer. Like Moultrie, he ditched MSU at the end of the season to declare for the NBA draft, but went undrafted. He signed with the NBA D-League but never played a game -- a great talent gone to waste for lack of effort.

Rick Stansbury, the ninth winningest basketball coach in SEC history, was MSU's coach that season. He announced his retirement at age 52 after the team collapsed and lost seven of their last nine games. Most everyone believes MSU forced his "retirement." Stansbury took lots of heat for not maintaining better discipline on the team and letting it slowly drift out of control. Several disgruntled players, including Sidney, kept the team in a constant state of turmoil later in the season, which disrupted the team and dropped it from #14 in the country to first round NIT loser.

It's really a shame that few Zips fans will ever have a full appreciation for just how talented and good that MSU team was at the time the Zips played them. That's why I've taken the time to thoroughly research and post this. Coach Dambrot spent weeks drawing up a special plan to beat MSU, and the players executed it to perfection. It was the perfect example of what the Zips are capable of doing when they are at full strength with no injuries, illnesses or missing players. It was arguably the Zips most impressive road win over a major power team during the Coach Dambrot era if not all-time.

[taxpayer]

D.I.G. thanks for the effort and time to post the MSU summary. As well as the Zips have done recently, I too have been somewhat disappointed with the results of the OCC as well as the NCAA. Some will interpret what follows as excuses but the last two years have seen significant events from player suspensions, injuries or sickness hit the Zips at exactly worse moment possible. I believe last years team would have been the most dominant and successful Zips teams ever, if they aren't considered that now, without all the unfortunate things which occurred last year.

That's why I still consider beating C A N T and the kitties (with suffocating defense) to be the most impressive performances by the staff and players involved. I still can't believe how they totally took OU's will away; it was fantastic to watch and I imagine the most satisfying victory for the program ever.

[skip-zip]

It's really a shame that few Zips fans will ever have a full appreciation for just how talented and good that MSU team was at the time the Zips played them. That's why I've taken the time to thoroughly research and post this. Coach Dambrot spent weeks drawing up a special plan to beat MSU, and the players executed it to perfection. It was the perfect example of what the Zips are capable of doing when they are at full strength with no injuries, illnesses or missing players. It was arguably the Zips most impressive road win over a major power team during the Coach Dambrot era if not all-time.

I did make a point to say that it was a win I was very proud of.

The fact that they climbed in the rankings AFTER losing to us is certainly a testament to how good they were playing for a stretch last season. It was just unfortunate for us that this "best ever" win ended up looking much less significant later in the season.

I sometimes have to ask you (see bold above).....where do you get this information?

[Dave in Green]

@skip-zip, I got that specific information from someone very close to the team. I was told at the time to keep it confidential, and I always honor confidentiality agreements. I feel free to mention it now because it's more in the historical context. Besides, it's fairly obvious. The Mississippi State game was the Zips first of the season. Coach Dambrot knew it would be a huge win for the program if he could bring it off. I suspect that most underdog mid-majors that open the season against big-name opponents make similar special preparations.

@taxpayer, when you're only reporting facts as you just did, ignore criticism from anyone who says you're only making excuses. Hilltopper and I have been attending Zips basketball games together for many years. I can recall year after year at the end of the season when we'd say, wow, the Zips are really lucky to have had everyone healthy all season and no player suspensions. It all caught up with the Zips over the last couple of years when there was a long list of one thing after another with injuries and suspensions. It was especially damaging that the Zips' only proven PG suffered from a knee injury and mid-season surgery two seasons ago and a severe ankle sprain early last season followed by a departure from the team at tournament time, topped off by leaving the Zips without a clear primary PG this season. Ouch!

[legendofzippy]

I am a tough guy because I say that beating NDSU and MAC teams means nothing? Winning in the MAC means something to us, but the rest of the country shrugs their shoulders. We need to beat nationally relevant programs. Joe Akron has relegated the Zips to small time by the start of the MAC schedule because we lose every game that may peek their interest.

I think what you're saying in the first part of this post is what bothers me the most. Most of the argument against what I'm saying right now seems to center around the national perception of our program. What I'm trying to say is - that doesn't matter, and it will never matter.

Look at our soccer program. They've been very strong for a long time now. They have a national championship for crying out loud. Shouldn't they, in the soccer community, have a strong "national perception"? Well look at the draw they got and tell me how that worked out for them.

Some big road wins would be great. Some NCAA wins would be great. But it's never, never, never going to matter. Except for rare exceptions, we're a one-bid league in basketball. What if we weren't guaranteed that one team, do you think the NCAA would take any MAC teams most years? No way. Hell we got screwed out of the NIT one year.

It sucks, but it's reality. What I'm trying to say is that winning our conference is still a great accomplishment. Did anyone hear Dambrot on 1350 yesterday? He talked about how they have great respect for their conference, and winning the MAC was still the #1 goal. If you support the program, then that's what you should support too.

[legendofzippy]

And if the argument is we need bigger wins to draw more fans - I don't buy that either. Bandwagons come and go. It's great to take their money for a while, but they don't stay.