Downtown Arena!

[GP1]

All you have to bring up is that UA is responsible for covering operating costs if the arena doesn't turn a profit...that pretty much nulls all the arguments against it.

If I still lived in Akron, this would be my #1 reason for voting against it.

I'd like to come at this from another direction. If the upgrades to the County law enforcement infrastructure is so important, why tie it to an arena? It doesn't make sense to me.

Short of donating money to these two organizations, could the ABJ have done more for them to get their organizations off the ground than what is in this article?

[Spin]

The argument is they/we don't want to pay for it in the first place. That's what you have to counter. The initial construction cost.

[GP1]

The argument is they/we don't want to pay for it in the first place. That's what you have to counter. The initial construction cost.

I'm as confused as ever about this issue after reading your post. That's the real problem. What should be a simple issue is very confusing for those who don't follow this on a regular basis. When people are confused, it is easy to get them to vote against something by finding out what they would really be against and targeting that topic in the election advertisements.

To me, this ballot initiative has been completely over thought by those who grouped a public service upgrade with a new arena that will sometimes be used by UofA and somehow they are financially responsible for a portion of the building even though their budget is in the red. It is entirely too confusing for the average voter to understand before walking in the ballot booth.

It seems to me that even if one supports this ballot initiative, that person would have to at least admit it is a bit confusing at this point.

[Balsy]

If I still lived in Akron, this would be my #1 reason for voting against it.

I'd like to come at this from another direction. If the upgrades to the County law enforcement infrastructure is so important, why tie it to an arena? It doesn't make sense to me.

Short of donating money to these two organizations, could the ABJ have done more for them to get their organizations off the ground than what is in this article?

I guess I come at it from this angle: We're maximizing what we can do with the tax increase, and they're all that important. Kill three birds with one stone. Two things we desperately need now, the third thing we desperately need to proceed with other downtown business ventures, that cannot develop until it is there. If we're never building anything new, creating anything new, attempting anything new, we'll never develop past where we are. If you're always fixing what's broken down in lieu of upgrading or building new, you're just waiting to fall apart.

[GP1]

I guess I come at it from this angle: We're maximizing what we can do with the tax increase,

My biggest concern has always been not having an independent owned and operated basketball arena because I don't trust the political actors in Akron/Summit Co. I don't see that as maximizing what we currently have as much as throwing in the towel on a better direction.

[Spin]

I'm as confused as ever about this issue after reading your post. That's the real problem. What should be a simple issue is very confusing for those who don't follow this on a regular basis. When people are confused, it is easy to get them to vote against something by finding out what they would really be against and targeting that topic in the election advertisements.

To me, this ballot initiative has been completely over thought by those who grouped a public service upgrade with a new arena that will sometimes be used by UofA and somehow they are financially responsible for a portion of the building even though their budget is in the red. It is entirely too confusing for the average voter to understand before walking in the ballot booth.

It seems to me that even if one supports this ballot initiative, that person would have to at least admit it is a bit confusing at this point.

There are two different costs of the building.

The cost of building it

The cost of operating it, if the income doesn't cover the expenses.

No matter what the taxpayers are paying the loan on the cost of building it.

When (if) the operating company loses money, the U will cover those costs.

So let's say the building needs to book 100 dates to cover expenses and break even. If it only books, say, 20, it's operating at a loss. The University would cover those losses.

Meanwhile the building loan is still being paid by the taxpayer.

[Dave in Green]

Well wouldn't you just know it. One of the organizers of the anti-tax coalition is none other than David Culp (aka Jake), who has been on a public crusade for years to keep any new arena on campus and away from downtown. Another of the organizers is Adam Miller, a local Tea Party activist and ex-Can't State student who has zero tolerance for any form of taxation. There's also a pro-sales tax increase group with their own Facebook page: Citizens for a Safe and Successful Summit County Community

[ZachTheZip]

The idea of Canal Park was sold to the voters as a way to pull the Canton-Akron Indians into downtown Akron. Some wanted it because they saw it as a way to revitalize downtown. Others wanted it because they couldn't stand the fact that the team was in Canton instead of Akron.

Sell the arena on the prospect of pulling the Canton Charge away. Sell it on local pride, and the idea that Akron shouldn't be overlooked for a city less than half its size and twice as far from the affiliated NBA team. Sell it on the idea that the fact that we don't have a civic arena is a slight on the city and the county. People around here hate it when their home is slighted, and react strongly to it.

[GP1]

Another of the organizers is Adam Miller, a local Tea Party activist and ex-Can't State student

Tea Party and Can't student..... a two time loser.

[GP1]

Sell the arena on the prospect of pulling the Canton Charge away. Sell it on local pride, and the idea that Akron shouldn't be overlooked for a city less than half its size and twice as far from the affiliated NBA team. Sell it on the idea that the fact that we don't have a civic arena is a slight on the city and the county. People around here hate it when their home is slighted, and react strongly to it.

From what we have learned in recent weeks, all they have to do is say a new arena will account for $100 million in downtown spending annually. Nobody will check the math and it will sound great. Say it enough times and it becomes true.

[GP1]

Has anyone asked the following questions.

If the arena is built, it doesn't make money and UofA has to pay for the upkeep, how are they going to pay for it considering they are already swimming in red ink? If cuts are to be made to pay for the upkeep, where will they make them? Will they make cuts if there is no money to cover the red ink or are they just going to increase tuition and student fees?

Also, we have a new President somewhat tied to Republican politicians. Is he on board with this plan to tie the future of a new arena to a government entity and tax increases?

[Spin]

I thought that too. Pair that up with the limited events that you can have with the limited design, and the U could wind up eating a LOT more than they bargained for..

[Balsy]

By what I'm apparently hearing from everyone...UA should never bother building a new arena, we'll never be able to afford it (apparently even if UA doesn't have to foot the bill of building the building itself). So enjoy the JAR. Enjoy the mediocre play in a sub-mediocre conference.

[LZIp]

By what I'm apparently hearing from everyone...UA should never bother building a new arena, we'll never be able to afford it (apparently even if UA doesn't have to foot the bill of building the building itself). So enjoy the JAR. Enjoy the mediocre play in a sub-mediocre conference.

Just keep in mind who it is coming from, Balsy. GP1 takes any and every opportunity to knock the "building process". I guess it's impossible to pay bills if you are in the red......I have like a -50k net worth, but I have no problem paying bills every month. And um, people are forgetting UA is already paying "operating expenses" for the JAR. The way I see it, a new arena minus a fully used JAR would only equal a little more than the current expenses.

And it's well known that Spin is against anything that can't be used for hockey as well. Not saying I agree or disagree, I personally don't care much and it would probably be better to have flexibility, but the agenda is well known.

[Dave in Green]

Easy, Balsy. "Everyone" isn't against building a new arena, and the play is far from "mediocre" from a team that for the past decade has been consistently top 100 out of 350+ D-I teams. No need to feed that kind of hyper-negativity like Jake and his buddies who said in the ABJ article that "you can throw a grenade inside the on-campus arena now and not hurt anyone during a men’s basketball game." We should try to keep the conversation here at a higher level so Jake doesn't get the idea that he has supporters here and is tempted to return to ZN.o under yet another screen name.

Realistically speaking, the new downtown arena to be funded by the sales tax increase should only happen if UA is not the primary user. The downtown arena has to make sense for the city and the county with UA basketball games representing only a fraction of its use. If a sound economic case can't be made under those conditions, it shouldn't be built. Of course that means that we will be stuck with the JAR for years to come, because UA can't make an economic case for a new on-campus arena by itself. Looking at it realistically is painful because there's no easy solution. But unrealistic expectations will only make things worse for everyone in the long run.

[Spin]

By what I'm apparently hearing from everyone...UA should never bother building a new arena, we'll never be able to afford it (apparently even if UA doesn't have to foot the bill of building the building itself). So enjoy the JAR. Enjoy the mediocre play in a sub-mediocre conference.

I wouldn't mind it if they designed it so it was capable of holding the events the typical arena can handle. But they're not, so it can't handle a fraction of the events, and they want me and you to pay for it.

Earlier in the thread I laid out how many events Youngstown's arena needed to break even, how many events you can host on a full size arena floor, and how many events you can host on a basketball gym floor.

If the university, the city, or the county want to do it right, I am all for it. I'll gladly pay the tax or make a contribution to a proper university-built facility on campus.

If they want to get in my pockets for their typical myopic half-assed waste of money, they're going to have a fight.

[Spin]

And it's well known that Spin is against anything that can't be used for hockey as well. Not saying I agree or disagree, I personally don't care much and it would probably be better to have flexibility, but the agenda is well known.

Guess you missed my posts earlier in the thread where I showed the different events that require a bigger floor, and how it all works without hockey (which I don't care if they had ice or not). If you're going to criticize other posters, at least know what the hell they're talking about.

[Dr Z]

I'm just curious, has anybody posting in this thread ever tried to buy an hour of ice time in this area (15 mile radius of Akron)?

[GP1]

Just keep in mind who it is coming from, Balsy. GP1 takes any and every opportunity to knock the "building process".

I'm not against a new arena at all and I'm not sure where this comes from. I am against the "building process" as a means to bankrupt universities. Anyhow, I'm in favor of an arena that is built for the Zips to play basketball that is owned and operated by UofA. I'm in favor of a great arena that would make the viewing of a Zips basketball game a top notch experience for the paying customers and television viewers. I'm in favor of an arena that could be on campus and used for educational purposes for the general student body of UofA as they will be paying part of the bill for it. I'm in favor of an arena that could contain treatment facilities for any injured Zips players that play in the sports that would use the arena within close distance to where they live and spend a lot of time, on campus.

In my opinion, an arena owned and operated by Summit County/City of Akron/UofA will fail in the above because there are too many interests involved. When there are that many interests involved, the politics becomes too great and many of those acting in the political arena around Akron don't have enough of UofA in the back of their minds when they make decisions.

I'll continue to set the bar high in the hopes that those around Akron aim high and hit a high target. Right now, they are aiming just about as low as university and public officials can.

[Blue & Gold]

Looks like the U & city are going for a facility similar to the Bank United Center in Miami - basketball home of the U of Miami Hurricanes. Similar seating capacity (ours will actually be a bit larger) and is basketball/concerts only, i.e., no hockey/soccer.

http://www.bankunitedcenter.com

[skip-zip]

Someone is going to have to come up with a credible and convincing explanation that the proposed arena is not primarily for the benefit of UA. It must be sold as a community arena with UA accounting for only a fraction of its use. Benefits to residents of the city and county must be described in detail. Failure to do this in a timely manner will make it difficult to pass the proposed sales tax.

Good point. Tax increases are hard to sell as it is, especially one that would affect everyone, and the poor even more.

That info. above from the article is compelling. The people of Akron, who are the closest and most likely beneficiaries of such a project, include a lot of people who are under the poverty level and will likely vote against the tax, no matter what.

[g-mann17]

Looks like the U & city are going for a facility similar to the Bank United Center in Miami - basketball home of the U of Miami Hurricanes. Similar seating capacity (ours will actually be a bit larger) and is basketball/concerts only, i.e., no hockey/soccer.

http://www.bankunitedcenter.com

No hockey, but it does host UIFL which is Arena Football. And it has been mentioned that the proposed Akron Arena would have the floor space for hockey just that it would not include the infrastructure for the rink (chillers).

[GP1]

That info. above from the article is compelling. The people of Akron, who are the closest and most likely beneficiaries of such a project, include a lot of people who are under the poverty level and will likely vote against the tax, no matter what.

This study by the Bliss Institute has some data on income and voter turnout. People under the poverty level have a low turnout compared to other demographic groups. If anyone is counting on them to carry the day, they will be disappointed. Again, a county wide vote will require people far from Akron city center to vote for something they may not understand how it impacts them or is far away from their day to day needs. This is going to be a very difficult election for those who support the tax increase. I'm not saying it can't be won, but the cards are stacked against them.

[Spin]

I'm just curious, has anybody posting in this thread ever tried to buy an hour of ice time in this area (15 mile radius of Akron)?

Yep, Zips Hockey had a heck of a time scheduling games, often starting at 11pm and running well past midnight. Even when we hosted the conference tournament. They still packed the house BTW. I've seen public skates late at night that were absolutely packed.

But I try not to mention ice or hockey because that causes heads to explode here for some reason.

[Spin]

I'm in favor of an arena that is built for the Zips to play basketball that is owned and operated by UofA. I'm in favor of a great arena that would make the viewing of a Zips basketball game a top notch experience for the paying customers and television viewers. I'm in favor of an arena that could be on campus and used for educational purposes for the general student body of UofA as they will be paying part of the bill for it. I'm in favor of an arena that could contain treatment facilities for any injured Zips players that play in the sports that would use the arena within close distance to where they live and spend a lot of time, on campus.

In my opinion, an arena owned and operated by Summit County/City of Akron/UofA will fail in the above because there are too many interests involved. When there are that many interests involved, the politics becomes too great and many of those acting in the political arena around Akron don't have enough of UofA in the back of their minds when they make decisions.

Agreed. Best case scenario is a university built university owned structure that not only has a first class basketball arena but also educational and recreational facilities for all students. It would be ON CAMPUS, accessible to all students, and would also bring alumni ON CAMPUS. It would also be capable of holding non-university events which would bring revenue into the building's budget to help pay for it. Bringing more outsiders ON CAMPUS to show them we are not Buchtel College anymore.

There's talk of needing more classroom space and the need for more building. I attended class in Memorial, the JAR, and the Info. My class at Memorial had to be moved as there were too many students for the room size. Multipurpose is a key. It needs to be for recreational purposes. Use it for rec soccer one night a week in the winter. Intramural and open. I had some great times as a teen at the Force Fitness Institute playing open soccer. Students (even those less-athletic) love that chance to get out and play.

Other events, been over that ad nauseum what you could host. The indoor soccer thing got me thinking of youth soccer leagues. Open the thing up on Satuday mornings in the winter, charge each participant and fan, and run tournaments for all the different age groups. It's the perfect demographic to do this with, and it gets a lot more eyes on the campus itself.

So, how do we pay for it? Sponsorships helped pay for the football and soccer stadiums. If you have a venue that's open 200 times a year, that's a lot more exposure for a sponsor. How else? US. Nobody has tried this idea. How do I know? I HAVE NEVER BEEN ASKED!!! Have any of you been approached by the U to donate money to a new arena project???

I would much rather help build a facilty for the U by the U at the U, and will never support a limited use county run waste.