UA to Renovate the JAR

[a-zip]

What those on this board who want to blindly spend money on new arenas, new stadiums…."blah, blah,blah" are not doing is convincing me or anyone that matters. WHY is it money well spent. Hell, I think the whole Greek Village might be a better ideas to increase time and pride on campus. Making the JAR "nicer" is a prudent idea.

[Zip_ME87]

The attendance increase didn't come until 2009 when we were undefeated and rated #1 in the country. It's not going to be easy or even remotely possible for the basketball team to have that same type of success. Even multiple Sweet Sixteens were ignored when it comes to soccer, which were likely viewed the same as 20+ win basketball seasons.

20+ win basketball seasons don't mean squat. People remember what a team did in the NCAA Tourney; not what they did during the regular season.

I agree with the posters who have said that the administration is going to do what the administration is going to do and not listen to a bunch of posters on ZipsNation.org. However, anyone who thinks it doesn't come out of our pockets is WRONG. The last I checked UA is a state university and gets some of its funding from the State of Ohio to which many of us pay taxes. Also, whatever they put into facilities, they have to pick up out of our donations for scholarships. Some posters on this board are current students. Don't tell them it doesn't come out of their tuition and fees.

I have no issue with putting some money into the JAR for the near term. However, if they eventually spend $38M on it, I'm done. I've watched uncaring ADs come and go and put funds into a football program that still has gone nowhere. If they were going to build Infocision and then give such little thought to the Head Coach, they should have shut down Akron Football and imploded the Rubber Bowl. They probably could have sold more tickets to that event than we draw in a football season. Those of you who can put up with the same stupidity year after year are welcome to it.

[MaxZIP]

I feel like this discussion is missing a healthy dose of narcissism from gp1. This is the perfect bait thread. He is probably fighting to stay out while lurking anonymously in the shadows.

[Dave in Green]

The U of A administration is going to do what they are going to do. They are not going to listen to a bunch of blow hard - know it all's like myself and members of Zips Nation. I'm sure the 38 mil will give the 30 year old JAR a nice face lift. Why complain about it if it is inevitable. ...

The full $38 million renovation is far from inevitable. UA hasn't even committed to a minor first stage yet, which would cost only a small fraction of that. They're just discussing it now, though a minimum renovation is likely at some point in the near future. Some in UA administration do read ZipsNation, including some in higher positions than you might imagine. They may not pay much attention to venting blowhards throwing out repetitive rants lacking in substance. But they do look for the kind of thoughtful ideas that some forum members post. If anyone wants their thoughts to be heard, say something worthy of consideration.

[RACER]

I keep hearing we don't play anybody.that's a bunch of b.s. akron s.o.s is 123 out of 351 teams.

the only mac school that has higher s.o.s. is buffalo.when the kids commit to akron.

they come to akron because we win 20+ games every year,and we have a

coach they know is going to be here. how do think we had a commit from b.j. gladden.

he had offers from wake forest,but chose akron.how did we get a kid from las vegas to come to akron.why would he become to place that's cold as hell compared to where he lived.

he came because we win games and liked the k.d. the a.d. ,kd,or the pres.

needs to listen to people on this board in person about the j.a.r.

I don't have a problem with upgrading the jar.they won't listen to the fans though.

the first thing is the internet feed. it's been a joke since they stared this.

the internet has nothing to do with the j.a.r.not every fan can make every home game.

we still would like to watch the game on the net.fix the simple problems first.

you can't put a bathroom upstairs? if you have to go downstairs you could a few min of the game.

when they have a good fan turnout for game.the downstairs is a cluster f at half time.

you have the bathrooms,people getting gear,or food.the feeling I have is like having

100 people in my small apartment.my dad actually coach evans dad in 7th grade football.

he was a great qb.my dad say's he is getting old when kids he coached kids are

playing at akron u.maybe he will get to see akron win a ncaa tourney game before he passes away.

l.o.l he is 74 and still works in the summer at a golf course.he has more energy than I do.l.o.l

go zips!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[zippyball]

the university of Michigan did a complete renovation of crisler arena which seats 13000 a couple of years ago for 52 million and it turned out extremely well as crisler was a dump. I think 38 million to redo the 5000 seat Jar could turn out extremely well. I would like to see more details and artist drawing released.

[skip-zip]

It's interesting to look at how general trends in college basketball attendance and local interest in specific college programs affect arena sizing. From the modest research I've done, there was an era when many facilities that were originally built too small were expanded followed by the more recent era of downsizing facilities to match generally falling attendance. Of course there are exceptions within the general trends with programs on the rise drawing more attendance even in times of generally falling attendance and programs on the decline drawing less attendance even in times of generally rising attendance.

Western Kentucky's E. A. Diddle Arena is a random example of the boom and bust of college basketball arena sizing as its capacity has greatly increased and decreased over the years with various redesigns for various reasons:

1963 - 8,500

1965 - 12,500

1970 - 13,508

1979 - 13,164

1980 - 12,370

1991 - 11,300

2002 - 7,381

2003 - 7,368

2005 - 7,326

The point here is that we're speculating on the optimum size for a Zips arena without really knowing what the situation will be 5 or 10 years from now. Aim too high and money is wasted on seating that will go unused. Aim too low and many fans will be shut out from being able to attend big games for lack of adequate capacity. Even if you size it just right for today, how will that work in a few years? Ultimately UA has to consider all the points being made here and more, including their vision for the future of the university as a whole. There's no easy solution due to all the variables.

Dave, All I can say is that I hope we see the potential to eventually increase our footprint in this populous section of Ohio as much more realistic than WKU would ever be able to siphon out of Bowling Green Kentucky, which also happens to be within hours of two of the most prestigious college basketball programs in the country.

[taxpayer]

What a depressing thread about a needed improvement. I've submitted ideas in the past to try to improve the fan experience without breaking the bank in past years.

UA did improve the JAR lighting a few years ago which was a good start. The lobby renovation still looks like a basement work in process area in my opinion. So as not to pile on with more negatives addressed at a program I care about:

Sit down with KD and see if it's possible to trade 2 guaranteed win home games for "get paid" games at top 20 basketball powers. Give KD money made for this exchange so he can charter 2 or 3 selected away games so the Zips have a chance to show up rested compared with the plane & ridiculous bus ride to State College where the Zips blew the game due to road wear in my humble opinion.

I like the idea of minimal improvements while planning a new on campus facility directly next to the JAR. If a design could incorporate the new team suite and weight training rooms into the new design so that money isn't wasted than so much the better.

Currently, most UA students and Mr. Joe Akron don't care much for the Zips. Roll the dice, go get paid to be a patsy a couple of times and maybe surprise a couple of teams. I believe UA is closer than commonly believed. It's time to drop the 20 game wins mantra and go with we'll play anyone, anywhere. Especially, those with $$$

To those of you who want to change conferences.....what are you thinking? Attendance in the two revenue sports is pathetic. In the RED financially. What makes UA such an attractive partner....other some easy wins in sports not named soccer/basketball and rifle, sniper, hunting??

[tomzip]

Point was the 3x bump; not the actual numbers.

Taking a crap team from a crap conference to a better conference is still crap. It might be even worse, like in the Crawford and Hipsher years, if the Zips can't even compete for the conference championship.

Nobody gives a s%&t because the Zips haven't accomplished anything in football or basketball. In football, we went to one Bowl game, built a new stadium, and hired a know-nothing as head coach. Nice way to build excitement about your new facility...have absolutely the worst product possible on the field during its early seasons. TB really has his work cut out for him digging out of that hole. Getting blown out by 46 points by VCU in the NCAA Tourney last time we were there was a huge setback for basketball. Most fans only pay attention to March Madness. They don't give a s%&t about remember the teams you defeat in the regular season or the NIT. VCU had 50 points at the half. They could have scored ZERO (0) points in the 2nd half and still won. People, including alumni and students, are supposed to get excited just because the Zips were there. HaHaHa. Fat chance. A poopy post-season team in the MAC still stinks in a better conference; perhaps worse if that poopy team can never get an NCAA bid.

As far as Can't State and blOU drawing bigger crowds for basketball than the Zips, look no further than their student sections proximity to the court and the fact that they have both made runs in the NCAA Tourney (the part of the season about which fans do give a s%&t). You don't have to be a genius to get it.

Right on...Can we maybe start talking about another conference when we maybe win a bowl game or win an NCAA game? just once in my life, that's not asking much is it?

[Spin]

Several of us on this forum have said we would attend a lot more games if we had a comfortable place to go. Just like when the Lil Indians moved from Thurmon Munson Rec League Softball Field to Canal Park. I'm still waiting for someone to explain how that wouldn't work here.

A few months back a couple of us brought up that the athletic department would be further ahead playing at a different level. Everyone else went bat shit crazy that we have to be big time, Division I, Bowl Championship freakin' Series or bust baby!!! Yet you're satisfied with a gym smaller and less accessible/comfortable/useable than a modern high school gymnasium.

[ZippyRulz]

Frenchy brought it up with KD in the pregame interview. KD was, not surprisingly, in favor of renovating.

[Spin]

I am too. If nobody's going to look for ways to get a new arena, might as well polish the turd some more.

[a-zip]

2937 attendance for the Marshall game

[skip-zip]

2937 attendance for the Marshall game

You know, I have just as many dreams as anyone else about Akron getting to a higher level. But, I have always said that we're not doing anything collectively as fans at this point to push the "we need a larger arena" issue. It appears that attendance has even dropped a bit in recent years.

Without looking, if we examined attendance at each game for the past 5 years or so, can we find any time other than maybe a few OU or Ken+ games where we truly exceeded 4,500 people actually in the arena? For now, if a new arena is really not on the near horizon, I think we can sacrifice a little size for a few more amenities. We might be a few seats short a time or two, but for those of us who frequent the JAR, I think we'll be a much happier group. And even those people who would make up the 3,000 to 4,500 numbers at some games (the infrequent attendees) would have an improved experience too.

If we stick basically to improvements that would have needed to be made, regardless of whether a new arena is built, there might not be any negatives to making these improvements to the JAR.

[Balsy]

The attendance for this game is no surprise. Don't schedule "Big-Name" opponents over winter break...or weekdays. You'll get a couple of 100 more people in there. But attendance isn't going to change much.

[Zipgrad01]

Being on break is no excuse for poor attendance. The vast majority of the student population lives within an hour of campus. Plus, being on break doesn't change the amount of alumni and general population that could attend games. The real reason people don't come to games is because they don't care. They are OSU fans and they couldn't care less about UA. There is no reason to try to blame the attendance on arenas and winter break, etc..

The only way this ever changes is if we say to hell with the 20 game a year win streak and start going after some of the big dogs. Get some big wins, get to the tourney and make some noise. Repeat for several years. We need to be relevant to more than the MAC for people to think that the program is worth their time and money.

[ROCK1]

Bowling Green built a new arena that seats about 4,400 for $30 million. It's not super fancy, and maybe too small, but it's been done in the MAC.

[skip-zip]

Bowling Green built a new arena that seats about 4,400 for $30 million. It's not super fancy, and maybe too small, but it's been done in the MAC.

My guess is, the only reason you build a NEW 4,400 seat arena is if it works for the kind of crowd size history you need, and you have no aspirations to get to a bigger league. I know someone who's very involved in BG athletics, and he claims it works well for them. So be it. And they are getting some conveniences that they never had before.

[Balsy]

Being on break is no excuse for poor attendance. The vast majority of the student population lives within an hour of campus. Plus, being on break doesn't change the amount of alumni and general population that could attend games. The real reason people don't come to games is because they don't care. They are OSU fans and they couldn't care less about UA. There is no reason to try to blame the attendance on arenas and winter break, etc..

The only way this ever changes is if we say to hell with the 20 game a year win streak and start going after some of the big dogs. Get some big wins, get to the tourney and make some noise. Repeat for several years. We need to be relevant to more than the MAC for people to think that the program is worth their time and money.

This is easily refuted because all you have to do is look at the stands. Students (though already few in regular games) is double, even triple when school is in session. And yes it is a good reason because a lot of students travel over the break, a lot of them don't know the schedule off the top of their head (neither do students at big schools like State Ohio)...they show up because they saw there was a "game tonight" when they were on campus and decided to go. The attendance last night was almost identical to any other night. The normal alumni and members of the community who are always there, were there. So I don't get what you're going for here.

I do agree that the vast majority of Alumni don't care...but why should they? We play in a HS arena. Anyone from my HS would think Akron's small time, because we do our graduation ceremonies in the JAR. You absolutely can blame attendance on an arena. Why should students give a damn about the team while they're in college, when they play in the dump that is the JAR? It's not that enjoyable of an experience, especially when it makes you feel like you're in HS again.

I do agree that we need to start making some noise. Every time we have the chance to, we fall short.

[skip-zip]

I do agree that the vast majority of Alumni don't care...but why should they? We play in a HS arena.

Just hypothetical, but imagine if Akron was the #20 ranked team in the country right now. And a couple thousand more people were flocking to the JAR for a basketball game. Rightfully assuming that it would be because we are a "national power", and they are college basketball fans, do you really believe that the style of the gym would keep them away?

When thousands more people were attending UA soccer games a few years ago, when we were nationally ranked...and the new complex was not yet constructed, do you really think any of them were saying "this is an old complex....I don't want to go anymore"?

People aren't going because we aren't doing anything significant enough to get them interested. If we were, there's plenty of people who would sit in the top corner of the bleachers to be a part of it.

[Staton14]

This is easily refuted because all you have to do is look at the stands. Students (though already few in regular games) is double, even triple when school is in session. And yes it is a good reason because a lot of students travel over the break, a lot of them don't know the schedule off the top of their head (neither do students at big schools like State Ohio)...they show up because they saw there was a "game tonight" when they were on campus and decided to go. The attendance last night was almost identical to any other night. The normal alumni and members of the community who are always there, were there. So I don't get what you're going for here.

I do agree that the vast majority of Alumni don't care...but why should they? We play in a HS arena. Anyone from my HS would think Akron's small time, because we do our graduation ceremonies in the JAR. You absolutely can blame attendance on an arena. Why should students give a damn about the team while they're in college, when they play in the dump that is the JAR? It's not that enjoyable of an experience, especially when it makes you feel like you're in HS again.

I do agree that we need to start making some noise. Every time we have the chance to, we fall short.

I thought graduations were in EJ Thomas. Even the local high school ones.

[Staton14]

Just hypothetical, but imagine if Akron was the #20 ranked team in the country right now. And a couple thousand more people were flocking to the JAR for a basketball game. Rightfully assuming that it would be because we are a "national power", and they are college basketball fans, do you really believe that the style of the gym would keep them away?

When thousands more people were attending UA soccer games a few years ago, when we were nationally ranked...and the new complex was not yet constructed, do you really think any of them were saying "this is an old complex....I don't want to go anymore"?

People aren't going because we aren't doing anything significant enough to get them interested. If we were, there's plenty of people who would sit in the top corner of the bleachers to be a part of it.

It may not be keeping many away, but its certainly not attracting anyone.

[Dave in Green]

The 4,400-seat Stroh Center replaced the old (1960) 4,700-seat Anderson Arena, so BG gave up only 300 seats in exchange for a much nicer facility with all chairback seating for a total cost of $30 million. It makes an interesting recent case study of the attendance bump of a new arena with an Ohio-based MAC team that's had a fairly flat won-lost record before and after the transition.

Average home game attendance went from about 1,550 the last 5 seasons in Anderson Arena to about 1,950 the first 3 seasons in the Stroh Center for an average improvement of about 400 more per home game, which equates to a 25% increase.

The Zips have averaged about 3,300 per home game over the past 5 seasons, or more than double what BG averaged in the 5 seasons before their new arena opened. If the Zips could generate the same 25% attendance increase with a new arena that BG did, that would produce an average home game attendance increase of about 825 to about 4,125 per game, assuming the team's won-lost record remained as flat as BG's has been.

Here's the old/new arena attendance for BG:

1,403 -- 2006-2007 (13-18)

1,352 -- 2007-2008 (13-17)

1,729 -- 2008-2009 (19-14)

1,709 -- 2009-2010 (14-16)

1,574 -- 2010-2011 (14-19)

------------------------------------

2,157 -- 2011-2012 (16-16)

1,992 -- 2012-2013 (13-19)

1,759 -- 2013-2014 (12-20)

[Blue & Gold]

Slightly off topic, but within the general topic of overall attendance issues, I'm now in the camp which believes we need to cease with prioritizing keeping the 20-win/season streak alive, and start going into the lion's den a couple of times a year. We need to shake things up a little.

Going into traditional Top 25 venues twice per year gives us two money games and the chance for some big time wins. We need to show the community that we are nationally relevant, like the soccer team has done.

Scheduling the same way year-after-year has become a bit wearisome.

(Top 25 and/or upper-echelon B10 schools. Name opponents. Not Northwestern. Bring on Michigan, Michigan State, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio State. I feel USC was a big win, even though basketball people know USC sucks. None-the-less, USC is a name opponent. Same goes for Penn State.)

[Blue & Gold]

Another issue that is out of our control, and this is a chicken-egg argument, is the lack of media coverage. The Cleveland televised media pretends we don't exist and always has. After a few generations of this it really is in the zeitgeist of the community that UA athletics is irrelevant. Did the Beacon do a pregame story the day of the game. I don't believe so. The only way the community knows what's going on at UA is through the UA marketing department, and we've had some rather depressing and lengthy discussions about them as well.