Eliminating the A-Roo

[Balsy]

I figured I would just use Notre Dame (which is a pretty well known brand/logo ). I don't have time to post Oregon and Maryland and others….. I've made my point.

Oh, there is one other question I would like to ask…... The title of this thread is "ELIMINATING THE A-ROO". Where did you hear it was being ELIMINATED???

That's an example of ADDING logos, not eliminating them.

And to answer your question: From the Athletic Director himself! Go back to post #1. I flat out asked our AD in an email, pointing out that the A-ROO appears to be used less and less. I asked verbatum: "Is there a move to eliminate the "A-Roo"? Is there a marketing focus to move from the "A-Roo" logo to the "Z" logo? Pretty open and closed case.

I got the response that is posted on #1.

[a-zip]

One take away I have from this exchange.

Either Balsy or ZIP_ME87 are my ex-wife…….

[a-zip]

That's an example of ADDING logos, not eliminating them.

And to answer your question: From the Athletic Director himself! Go back to post #1. I flat out asked our AD in an email, pointing out that the A-ROO appears to be used less and less. I asked verbatum: "Is there a move to eliminate the "A-Roo"? Is there a marketing focus to move from the "A-Roo" logo to the "Z" logo? Pretty open and closed case.

I got the response that is posted on #1.

And his response was…."you are correct, we are moving towards the “Z” logo." HE DOES NOT SAY WE ARE ELIMINATING YOUR BELOVED A-ROO. C'mom Man!!!

[skip-zip]

A couple of people have pointed out that the "Z" (as a stand-alone entity) has been around awhile. Maybe longer than I thought. I'll acknowledge that.

But, as the intended primary symbol of the AKRON Athletics? That's the major change. And the amount invested in that previously identity would, in a sense, be left behind. Just my opinion from my particular background.

Once again, I personally have taken a liking to it. I'm just pointing out the challenges from a business/marketing/sales standpoint.

Like I said....GOOD LUCK !!

[Balsy]

I guess here's my point: I actually do like the Z. I don't like that it's seemingly replacing the A-Roo. I don't believe for a nanosecond there will be any measurable impact from this, so why change? There's plenty of things to fix with Akron athletics, and logos are the LAST thing that the AD should be wasting time on. W/E, it's a done deal.

I'll still be sporting the A-Roo anytime I can.

Sidenote: If the Z is replacing the A-Roo, they better start getting Z branded gear NOW. The store has like 1 thing the last time I went, and it wasn't that great.

[a-zip]

I guess here's my point: I actually do like the Z. I don't like that it's seemingly replacing the A-Roo. I don't believe for a nanosecond there will be any measurable impact from this, so why change? There's plenty of things to fix with Akron athletics, and logos are the LAST thing that the AD should be wasting time on. W/E, it's a done deal.

I'll still be sporting the A-Roo anytime I can.

Sidenote: If the Z is replacing the A-Roo, they better start getting Z branded gear NOW. The store has like 1 thing the last time I went, and it wasn't that great.

I am sure we agree on one thing….If the teams are winning….they could be wearing pink and have pussycats on the uniforms….. ;-)

One thing to think about (I hate to stir the pot again)…..If we are moving away from The University of Akron Zips and ultimately become The Ohio Tech Zips……the A does not convey. This is a subtle transition that is happening to what is inevitable…….. OTZ baby I like it!!

[Balsy]

I am sure we agree on one thing….If the teams are winning….they could be wearing pink and have pussycats on the uniforms….. ;-)

One thing to think about (I hate to stir the pot again)…..If we are moving away from The University of Akron Zips and ultimately become The Ohio Tech Zips……the A does not convey. This is a subtle transition that is happening to what is inevitable…….. OTZ baby I like it!!

Lol Agreed on the first one.

Trust me, if Akron becomes Ohio Tech, I'm going to be involved with the ZIps or the university.

[Zip_ME87]

One take away I have from this exchange.

Either Balsy or ZIP_ME87 are my ex-wife…….

That's okay...I concluded that you are either TW's child or wife. The reason for my remark about his relatives or friends.

You lost all credibility with this one..." There are people a lot smarter than you and I collecting and analyzing data before making these MAJOR decisions." TW is brilliant.

Edit: What was CK's phrase, "Rob Ianello Pigskin Massacre" or some such thing?

[Zip_ME87]

I am sure we agree on one thing….If the teams are winning….they could be wearing pink and have pussycats on the uniforms….. ;-)

One thing to think about (I hate to stir the pot again)…..If we are moving away from The University of Akron Zips and ultimately become The Ohio Tech Zips……the A does not convey. This is a subtle transition that is happening to what is inevitable…….. OTZ baby I like it!!

How do you know it won't be "OH Poly", like Cal Poly as opposed to being like VA Tech.

[Dave in Green]

Let's see if I have this right. The A-Roo and the Z have both been used since about 2003 (12 years). In the past there was more emphasis on the A-Roo but in recent years the emphasis has shifted more to the Z. Some prefer one, some prefer the other and some have no preference. Is that about the extent of what we've learned on this edition of Zips Family Feud?

[a-zip]

How do you know it won't be "OH Poly", like Cal Poly as opposed to being like VA Tech.

I don't. I think the name will evolve base on what people embrace. What's your point?

[a-zip]

Let's see if I have this right. The A-Roo and the Z have both been used since about 2003 (12 years). In the past there was more emphasis on the A-Roo but in recent years the emphasis has shifted more to the Z. Some prefer one, some prefer the other and some have no preference. Is that about the extent of what we've learned on this edition of Zips Family Feud?

Yup. And that some people think this shift is going to destroy the mighty A-Roo Championship legacy/brand that is selling out across the country And that Dr. Scarborough and TW are conspiring to destroy our university. That decisions are being made with no thought, insight or research.

When I played, we had the BYU A and we won. When Faust came in, it was changed to the moving A. It was a bit sad but a little exciting we embraced it.

[Balsy]

That decisions are being made with no thought, insight or research.

That's because they are. What switching to the Z is suddenly going to "sell out" all over the country?

But I guess I can let it go. You're the TW cheerleader. I'm the Travon Chapman cheerleader.

[a-zip]

That's because they are. What switching to the Z is suddenly going to "sell out" all over the country?

But I guess I can let it go. You're the TW cheerleader. I'm the Travon Chapman cheerleader.

Again, if you think these decision are being made by throwing darts at a board YOU ARE INSANE!!

I never said the Z was going to sell out across the country (if we start winning, I think it is pretty cool and unique logo though)…..I am saying moving away from the A-Donkey was not selling out and is not associated to anything great so it is a logical time to make a rebranding shift NOT ELIMINATION. Seriously, Who gives a sh!t. I've had fun with you but this is ridiculous.

I am only a TW cheerleader and Scarborough cheerleader because they are people that are making important decisions to my alma mater so I am rooting for them. They are smart people, they were interviewed, questioned and asked for their vision by some other very smart people. What I take exception to is people that simply BITCH and complain about something without providing solutions or substance. I hate people that simply point fingers without the insight and knowledge that the decision makers have.

I am also a Travon Chapman cheerleader and Kyle Pohl cheerleader because they play for my alma mater. If either of them start and don't win, I am in favor of a rebrand….ooops…..change.

[LZIp]

Again, if you think these decision are being made by throwing darts at a board YOU ARE INSANE!!

I never said the Z was going to sell out across the country (if we start winning, I think it is pretty cool and unique logo though)…..I am saying moving away from the A-Donkey was not selling out and is not associated to anything great so it is a logical time to make a rebranding shift NOT ELIMINATION. Seriously, Who gives a sh!t. I've had fun with you but this is ridiculous.

I am only a TW cheerleader and Scarborough cheerleader because they are people that are making important decisions to my alma mater so I am rooting for them. They are smart people, they were interviewed, questioned and asked for their vision by some other very smart people. What I take exception to is people that simply BITCH and complain about something without providing solutions or substance. I hate people that simply point fingers without the insight and knowledge that the decision makers have.

I am also a Travon Chapman cheerleader and Kyle Pohl cheerleader because they play for my alma mater. If either of them start and don't win, I am in favor of a rebrand….ooops…..change.

It's too bad your degree from Hilltop High didn't teach you the ability to think critically, but instead be a blind follower.

[Balsy]

Seriously, Who gives a sh!t. I've had fun with you but this is ridiculous.

I am only a TW cheerleader and Scarborough cheerleader because they are people that are making important decisions to my alma mater so I am rooting for them. They are smart people, they were interviewed, questioned and asked for their vision by some other very smart people. What I take exception to is people that simply BITCH and complain about something without providing solutions or substance. I hate people that simply point fingers without the insight and knowledge that the decision makers have.

I am also a Travon Chapman cheerleader and Kyle Pohl cheerleader because they play for my alma mater. If either of them start and don't win, I am in favor of a rebrand….ooops…..change.

I give a shit, that's why I'm upset about it.

But LZip articulated it perfectly: critical thinking. How do you know Scarborough and and TW are smart? Holding a doctorate or a position of power does not make one smart. Intelligence is relative, and nearly impossible to quantify and qualify. But, even assuming we could quantify or qualify it, just because a "smart" person makes a claim or a project, doesn't make it a good one. Claims stand on their own merits, not on who suggested them or the qualifications of those who support them. A claim is only as good as the data, information and facts to support it. Just saying "don't doubt them...they're smart people" is an appeal to authority and an arguement out of ignorance. There are some very smart people on this forum, and in the public who are in opposition to Scarborough. Why don't you agree with them? That's the problem with appeals to authority and arguements out of ignorance, their inherently biased.

Nothing from Scarborugh and TW on the rebranding of UA has ANY facts to support it. Scarborough has certainly made a good rhetorical case that some, like you, would agree with. But when pressed for data, information and facts to back it up, he's backpeddled behind "proprietary knowledge".

I don't think anyone has pressed TW on the issue of changing to the Z, but what data, facts or information are there to support the move? The only thing we can find is ONE survey, that doesn't even pass academic credibility. I wouldn't let my high school students use that crap to draw conclussions, why should we let an athletic director of a D-I university do it?

The Chapman Cheerleader comment was just a joke, it's not like I don't support Kyle Pohl.

[a-zip]

Balsy, LZip, ME - My opinion is based on a lot of facts and a lot of research from people other than Dr. Scarborough. Studies from the US Department of Education, NY Times, Washington Post, Forbes, Bloomberg - people like Mark Cuban, Bill Gates, etc etc. It is based on my believing that the responses from the survey were taken in to consideration. It is also based on common sense and what the Internet has done to other industries. It has to do with the economy. It has to do with successful strategies companies like Apple have implemented against IBMs. All credible publications, very smart successful philanthropists, and a pretty successful company.

I have posted many of the links for you. None of you have a credible response to any of it other than to say they are ALL idiots, they all have hidden agendas, there is no problem, the survey is garbage. Your opinions are all simply emotional and naive - starting with the title of this entire thread "ELIMINATING THE A-Roo". Balsy, you even tried to bust my balls by referring back to TW's response to you and NOWHERE in his response did he say the A-Roo was being ELIMINATED. He said we were MOVING toward the "Z" (a logo that has existed for years) not ELIMINATING it. You can't even understand the meaning of a simple email so I wouldn't expect you to understand anything I have said. YOUR CRITICAL THINKING somehow allowed you to read that email and interpret it as the donkey is being eliminated.

[a-zip]

In honor of David Letterman, here are the top responses from Balsy, ME & LZIP. Hey guys, I want to clarify something for you……"critical thinking" does not mean you simply criticize.

ME

Like all Athletics Department decisions made under TW, I'm sure this one was well thought out with input from those in the know and studies identifying all of the great things to come with the "Z" logo.

Just because TW and his friends and relatives don't like the A-Roo, doesn't mean those of us who graduated from UA don't.

Sorry, but I've never been impressed by TW, and so far, I don't see the thoughtful decisions from President Scarborough.

The survey that the Athletic Department did that was mentioned...what does that data mean? Is it meaningful? What do they know about those who responded? What was the sampling size? Making decisions based on that data seems like more from the Athletic Department than the thoughtful decisions President Scarborough promised. I'm tired of new leadership coming into UA and changing things on their whims, IMHO. (actually, not so-humble)

That's okay...I concluded that you are either TW's child or wife. The reason for my remark about his relatives or friends.

Balsy

We better win a national championship with the Z...or another football MAC Championship...or it'll be useless.

Kep the A-Roo, stop trying to fix what isn't broken.

The arguement of rebranding athletics, just like the arguement for rebranding UA, falls flat on it's face.

I just think it's asinine to completely eliminate the A-Roo. My coffee cup in front of me as I type this, has a giant A-Roo on it. Half my gear has the A-Roo on it. Moving A was very obviously dated. It looked like it was from the 80's. The A-Roo doesn't look dated at all.

Athletics should be creative, not lazy. Changing from A-Roo to Z is lazy.

We're going to continue having fun having no identity. Good luck attracting any current students to support the team when you're changing logos everyother year!

Why get involved with something, and build an identity with something, when everything about it keeps changing. THAT's the problem. Changing a logo may seem insignificant...it's not. It's huge.

but I didn't think it'd be in the process of eliminating another logo

I've been saying for a long time we need to be encorporating ALL of our logos, because it is something that makes Akron unique. I thought they were finally doing it with the new football gear, encorporating the Roo and the Z....but I didn't think it'd be in the process of eliminating another logo.

Yeah, start a new championship culture with the Z...I sure do remember when drug-dealing-gets-his-ass-kicked-off-the-team Alex Abreu was a center piece in the Z advertising, that was amazingly good press! Yeah! Championship Culture! Let's wear the Z logo uniforms and go out and lose another game on national television by 40 points! That'd be amazing!

More school colors, encorporate ALL logos. Build some pride in EVERYTHING that we have, not eliminating things because a President and AD want to pad the resume a bit.

Yeah I sure remember when State Ohio University got rid of it's Block O logo and placed a a giant B in it's place in all athletics marketing! That sure brought out the fans to support the Buckeyes!

That's an example of ADDING logos, not eliminating them.

And to answer your question: From the Athletic Director himself! Go back to post #1. I flat out asked our AD in an email, pointing out that the A-ROO appears to be used less and less. I asked verbatum: "Is there a move to eliminate the "A-Roo"? Is there a marketing focus to move from the "A-Roo" logo to the "Z" logo? Pretty open and closed case.

But LZip articulated it perfectly: critical thinking. How do you know Scarborough and and TW are smart? Holding a doctorate or a position of power does not make one smart.

Just saying "don't doubt them...they're smart people" is an appeal to authority and an arguement out of ignorance. There are some very smart people on this forum, and in the public who are in opposition to Scarborough. Why don't you agree with them? That's the problem with appeals to authority and arguements out of ignorance, their inherently biased.

Nothing from Scarborugh and TW on the rebranding of UA has ANY facts to support it.

I don't think anyone has pressed TW on the issue of changing to the Z, but what data, facts or information are there to support the move? The only thing we can find is ONE survey, that doesn't even pass academic credibility. I wouldn't let my high school students use that crap to draw conclussions, why should we let an athletic director of a D-I university do it?

LZIP

It's too bad your degree from Hilltop High didn't teach you the ability to think critically, but instead be a blind follower.

[Dave in Green]

... "critical thinking" does not mean you simply criticize. ...

Words of wisdom that deserve to stand on their own.

[K92]

If there's so many of them...name them?

Yeah I sure remember when State Ohio University got rid of it's Block O logo and placed a a giant B in it's place in all athletics marketing! That sure brought out the fans to support the Buckeyes!

The Buckeyes might not utilize the B but the Browns do.

[GJGood]

I am against eliminating the A-Roo. If the 'Z', which represents the nickname more than the school in my mind, is what people want as the primary logo then so be it. Who am I to challenge the masses on that topic? That being said I see no reason why the A-Roo should be totally eliminated. It can be a secondary logo, can't it?

I keep hearing the "'Z' is unique" argument but Akron is one of only two schools in all of division 1 athletics that use a kangaroo as a mascot. Akron is certainly the only school that uses the letter 'A' and a kangaroo. That makes it every bit as unique as a letter 'Z'.

[a-zip]

I am against eliminating the A-Roo. If the 'Z', which represents the nickname more than the school in my mind, is what people want as the primary logo then so be it. Who am I to challenge the masses on that topic? That being said I see no reason why the A-Roo should be totally eliminated. It can be a secondary logo, can't it?

I keep hearing the "'Z' is unique" argument but Akron is one of only two schools in all of division 1 athletics that use a kangaroo as a mascot. Akron is certainly the only school that uses the letter 'A' and a kangaroo. That makes it every bit as unique as a letter 'Z'.

GJ - the A-Roo is NOT being eliminated.

[Zip_ME87]

Balsy, LZip, ME - My opinion is based on a lot of facts and a lot of research from people other than Dr. Scarborough. Studies from the US Department of Education, NY Times, Washington Post, Forbes, Bloomberg - people like Mark Cuban, Bill Gates, etc etc. It is based on my believing that the responses from the survey were taken in to consideration. It is also based on common sense and what the Internet has done to other industries. It has to do with the economy. It has to do with successful strategies companies like Apple have implemented against IBMs. All credible publications, very smart successful philanthropists, and a pretty successful company.

I have posted many of the links for you. None of you have a credible response to any of it other than to say they are ALL idiots, they all have hidden agendas, there is no problem, the survey is garbage. Your opinions are all simply emotional and naive - starting with the title of this entire thread "ELIMINATING THE A-Roo". Balsy, you even tried to bust my balls by referring back to TW's response to you and NOWHERE in his response did he say the A-Roo was being ELIMINATED. He said we were MOVING toward the "Z" (a logo that has existed for years) not ELIMINATING it. You can't even understand the meaning of a simple email so I wouldn't expect you to understand anything I have said. YOUR CRITICAL THINKING somehow allowed you to read that email and interpret it as the donkey is being eliminated.

a-Zip, no matter how great a critical thinker you believe you are, it is still one opinion vs another. Yes, I read the links as to why rebrand, etc, etc., but not one of them is a study that was done by or for the University of Akron. They simply explain why entities rebrand. I don't remember stating that I disagreed with any kind of rebranding. I also don't recall stating that I thought the A-Roo was being eliminated. I believe, if you read my posts, I responded that I like the A-Roo and dislike the Z. I also disagreed with your statement that you had never seen the A-Roo on the Soccer warmups, uniforms, or Cub Cadet Field when the Zips won the National Championship. Technically, you are correct. It definitely was not on the home or away uniforms as I recall (check). It was not on the warmups I remember the team wearing on the field. I'm referring to the gold warm up shirts as I remember them. As someone else posted, though, it was on their warmup jackets, as I recall. So, I'll say you were correct. And, it was never on the soccer pitch...not on Cub Cadet Field. (check) So, as I recall, your statements are technically correct. However, the A-Roo was the accepted Akron logo during that period of time, and you and I can't deny that Caleb Porter wore it at that time and it was used on the ESPN broadcasts. So, UoA has had success with the A-Roo.

The links you provided concerning 'worst' uniforms and 'worst' helmets, are again someone's opinion. Others, like myself, like the A-Roo. As far as the Athletics Department survey...I'm not denying they may be using data from it. But, what does that survey really tell them. If it was done in a way that they don't understand who is providing the input, then it's meaningless. It didn't seem "scientific" to me.

I know change is difficult, but I'm not totally against it. However, I'm not interested in change just for change's sake. There are many things that the University of Akron does well currently. Why would you change those? For example, from what I've seen my alma mater does a great job of helping many of its graduates find jobs through internships and cooperative education programs. These things work now. So, please understand any change you're proposing before you implement it.

I have yet to see you provide a link to an actual study and it's data that was done for or by the University of Akron. You can continue to do all of the hand waving and blindly following folks who have credentials they've earned and/or had bestowed upon them. That does not mean they know what they are doing. I know you're tired of hearing it, but Rob Ianello is a shining example. broken record, yada yada yada. Too bad. Those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it. I'll be happy to get onbaord with you when you show me the critical thinking that has been done to justify changes that Dr. Scarborough is proposing. Good change is directed at an issue's root cause, and I've seen nothing yet that convinces me that Dr. Scarborough or Tom Wistrcill are addressing root cause.

My opinion vs yours.

[Dave in Green]

One of the great things about forums is that everyone is free to express their own opinions. Discussions can be interesting when they bring out various points that others may not have thought of or otherwise be aware of. While some factual data is presented, opinions by definition are largely subjective, so discussions typically do not result in someone "proving" something beyond a reasonable doubt and everyone else changing their minds.

Again, we've had evidence presented here that UA adopted the A-Roo and Z branding at the same time around 2003 or earlier. For the past 12 or more years they've both been used in varying degrees, with the Z being used more frequently in recent years. Some prefer one over the other and some like them equally. Personally, I like the Z a little more because a single stylized letter is simpler and cleaner whereas the A-Roo is more cluttered. No one outside of Akron really knows what animal is represented without being told.

As long as Zippy is the team mascot, I don't think there's any danger of the A-Roo completely disappearing. But for the general public the clean and simple stylized Z will be more easily recognized by more people and associated with the University of Akron Zips. That's the way I see it. But I also appreciate that others see it differently and have different preferences, and I read every dissenting post looking for new data that might make me consider changing my opinion.

[Dr Z]

Z will be more easily recognized by more people and associated with the University of Akron Zips. That's the way I see it. But I also appreciate that others see it differently

If you want the see the Z differently, turn your head ninety degrees, now you see an N.