Game 12—@Ohio Bobcats

[Zipgrad01]

2 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

4 out of Bowden's 5 seasons at Akron have ended with Akron having a losing record. I'd call that a trend. 

Please don't state facts 

[LZIp]

3 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

4 out of Bowden's 5 seasons at Akron have ended with Akron having a losing record. I'd call that a trend. 

He has trended up/has not regressed in every season before this one.

 

You're right. Fire him. That way we can keep trying over and over, year after year and will finally strike lightning in a bottle before we die and have that 1 magical season that in reality is meaningless because nothing that will be won will mean crap to anybody on a national scale and then our coach will leave and then we will be back to square 1 again. Just look at Kent St. Look at WMU next season. We're all just wasting our time because we root for a program that plays meaningless football. Nobody will give a damn about WMU football next season.

 

Our coaching blows but we've won a bowl game. Our recruiting sucks but we've set the record for most wins in school history. Hire Paul Winters right!! They guy who hasn't won more than 7 games in D2 since 2011!! You guys have it all figured out!

 

 

[K92]

17 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

4 out of Bowden's 5 seasons at Akron have ended with Akron having a losing record. I'd call that a trend. 

Not only that Kreed.  2 of those seasons started out at 4-2.  A 1-5 finish on a 4-2 start is called a disaster.  But let's not hold anybody accountable.  Let's make excuses.  Let's embrace mediocrity.

[K92]

4 minutes ago, LZIp said:

He has trended up/has not regressed in every season before this one.

 

You're right. Fire him. That way we can keep trying over and over, year after year and will finally strike lightning in a bottle before we die and have that 1 magical season that in reality is meaningless because nothing that will be won will mean crap to anybody on a national scale and then our coach will leave and then we will be back to square 1 again. Just look at Kent St. Look at WMU next season. We're all just wasting our time because we root for a program that plays meaningless football. Nobody will give a damn about WMU football next season.

 

Our coaching blows but we've won a bowl game. Our recruiting sucks but we've set the record for most wins in school history. Hire Paul Winters right!! They guy who hasn't won more than 7 games in D2 since 2011!! You guys have it all figured out!

 

 

Kent State's 1 year of success sure as Hell wasn't due to Darrell Hazel.  They had a pretty stout D and a game changer player on offense.

 

Bowden doesn't have to be fired.  Milwee needs to be, though. 

[kreed5120]

Just now, LZIp said:

He has trended up/has not regressed in every season before this one.

 

You're right. Fire him. That way we can keep trying over and over, year after year and will finally strike lightning in a bottle before we die and have that 1 magical season that in reality is meaningless because nothing that will be won will mean crap to anybody on a national scale and then our coach will leave and then we will be back to square 1 again. Just look at Kent St. Look at WMU next season. We're all just wasting our time because we root for a program that plays meaningless football. Nobody will give a damn about WMU football next season.

 

Our coaching blows but we've won a bowl game. Our recruiting sucks but we've set the record for most wins in school history. Hire Paul Winters right!! They guy who hasn't won more than 7 games in D2 since 2011!! You guys have it all figured out!

 

 

 

3 of his 5 seasons the Zips were 5-7. I'd say that's not much of a trend in either direction more so just hovering around mediocrity. I'm not saying fire him, but I do think he deserves to be on the hot seat. And I sure as hell don't think he is gods gift to Akron football as he really hasn't accomplished anything special in the larger grand scheme of things.

 

Great Akron set a program record for wins, but we still finished 7th in the MAC last year and got sent to the least desirable MAC bowl. The fact that it took only 8 wins to set the program record was more a testament to how bad Bowdens predecessors were more than anything else. App State achieved double figure wins its 2nd year in FBS. We have top notch facilities and play in fertile recruiting ground. There is no reason why we can't consistently be a top 3-4 team in the MAC. We've yet to reach that point under Bowden.

[LZIp]

8 minutes ago, K92 said:

Kent State's 1 year of success sure as Hell wasn't due to Darrell Hazel.  They had a pretty stout D and a game changer player on offense.

 

Bowden doesn't have to be fired.  Milwee needs to be, though. 

I'd personally take a look at the S&C coach before anybody. The large amount of injuries seemed to derailed the season more than any other factor. Not saying I don't have issues with Milwee. I have issues with everyone, but nobody was calling for his head when we dropped 65 on Marshall.

 

Had a long post typed up but I deleted because its not worth the time. Go Zips.

[LZIp]

13 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

3 of his 5 seasons the Zips were 5-7. I'd say that's not much of a trend in either direction more so just hovering around mediocrity. I'm not saying fire him, but I do think he deserves to be on the hot seat. And I sure as hell don't think he is gods gift to Akron football as he really hasn't accomplished anything special in the larger grand scheme of things.

 

Agree, but thats not what you said above.

Quote

Great Akron set a program record for wins, but we still finished 7th in the MAC last year and got sent to the least desirable MAC bowl. The fact that it took only 8 wins to set the program record was more a testament to how bad Bowdens predecessors were more than anything else.

Agree. However, the pathetic history of the program needs to be taken into account when evaluating. We've been the joke of D-1 football the majority of the time we've been here. Decades of suck doesn't change in a year or two. I've said it before, but its conveniently ignored....Bowden's first recruiting class is just now graduating. This is the recruiting class when he had a month to scrap together everybody else's leftovers. He didn't have much to sell the year after either coming off the 3rd straight 1-11 season. Some call it an excuse, I call it reality. These were the upper classman on our team this year.

Quote

App State achieved double figure wins its 2nd year in FBS. We have top notch facilities and play in fertile recruiting ground. There is no reason why we can't consistently be a top 3-4 team in the MAC. We've yet to reach that point under Bowden.

App State was a more decorated program than Akron probably ever will be while they were still in FCS. Not exactly comparing apples to apples. Agree about top 3-4 in the MAC. If its not there next year, it is probably time to move on. Coaches definitely hold some of the blame, but the cards were stacked against them this year. No excuses next season with what is returning.

[Balsy]

9 hours ago, K92 said:

Kent State's 1 year of success sure as Hell wasn't due to Darrell Hazel.

 

 

 

[skip-zip]

9 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

Great Akron set a program record for wins, but we still finished 7th in the MAC last year and got sent to the least desirable MAC bowl. 

 

That's the trademark fact from the Bowden era so far that can be looked at in two entirely different ways, based on however one decides to see things.  I don't know about any of you guys, but I can sometimes wake up on any given day and feel differently.  One day I might feel the excitement and relief of finally breaking past the dismal I-Coach years and getting to another FBS bowl game, and winning.  The next day, I might wake up thinking about how we still can't seem to break past the middle of the pack in the MAC, and wonder what changes can be made to get us out of the "mediocre" rut.  

 

But I will at least put this "win record" into perspective for a moment...

 

With the bowl game, we played 13 games last year.  And that 13th game was fortunately a Bowl Game against a 6-6 team.   Contrast that with the actual "best season" in our DI-A era when we only played 11 games and had a 7-3-1 record in 1992, which is a much better win percentage, in only our first year in the MAC, and only 5 years after moving up a division.

 

Some days, I actually want towhen I think that we've been unsuccessfully chasing that record from our infancy as a D-IA program for the last 24 years.    

 

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by skip-zip

[K92]

29 minutes ago, Balsy said:

 

 

 

Hazel fan, eh?

[LZIp]

Go Zips.

Edited November 26, 2016 by LZIp

[K92]

18 minutes ago, LZIp said:

PJ Fleck didn't recruit Terrell, Davis, Moton, or Thompson. Is the success not because of him? See how that works?

Huh?

[Balsy]

2 hours ago, K92 said:

Hazel fan, eh?

 

I just find it Ironic.  A team goes 5-7, it's only the coaches fault.  If a team goes 11-3, MAC Championship appearance GoDaddy.com Bowl appearance, 11-1 in the regular season...a win over a No. 15 ranked team (Rutgers)...and the coach has no impact on it.  What a double standard. 

 

In fact...Hazel meets all the criterion you want in your "why not us" scenario.  

[skip-zip]

7 minutes ago, Balsy said:

 

I just find it Ironic.  A team goes 5-7, it's only the coaches fault.  If a team goes 11-3, MAC Championship appearance GoDaddy.com Bowl appearance, 11-1 in the regular season...a win over a No. 15 ranked team (Rutgers)...and the coach has no impact on it.  What a double standard. 

 

This has always cracked me up.

 

I think the truth is that coaches get way too much credit for wins, and way too much blame for losses.  The players on the field are the ones that have to block, tackle, complete passes, etc., or your team won't win.  The coaches can't do that for them.  

[Lee Adams]

7 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

This has always cracked me up.

 

I think the truth is that coaches get way too much credit for wins, and way too much blame for losses.  The players on the field are the ones that have to block, tackle, complete passes, etc., or your team won't win.  The coaches can't do that for them.  

JD won a MAC championship in 2005 with some REALLY good players from the Lee Owens era and by adding some of his own talented recruits. We all know the names. Was that all JD? Was it all the players or a combo of coaching and the talent coming together. Hard to tell if he was able to put them in a better position to succeed than Owens did or if it was serendipity.

[K92]

10 minutes ago, Balsy said:

 

I just find it Ironic.  A team goes 5-7, it's only the coaches fault.  If a team goes 11-3, MAC Championship appearance GoDaddy.com Bowl appearance, 11-1 in the regular season...a win over a No. 15 ranked team (Rutgers)...and the coach has no impact on it.  What a double standard. 

 

In fact...Hazel meets all the criterion you want in your "why not us" scenario.  

DH was at Kent for 2 years.  Not a great sample size.  2012 was a great season, no doubt.  I was not overly impressed with Kent or DH.  A 1-11 Zips team certainly had a chance to beat them at their place.  They sure had a dynamic playmaker on offense in Dri Archer who paired nicely with the lardass running back.  Can't remember his name.  QB was a stiff.

 

Defense lived off of turnovers.

 

DH cashed in and worked his magic at Purdue.  He now is on the short list to replace Charlie Strong at Texas.

 

You are right he is awesome.  If for nothing else, he is awesome for those sweet helmets they wore in the bowl game.

 

 

I'm biased.  Forgive me.  I hate Kent.

[Balsy]

3 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

This has always cracked me up.

 

I think the truth is that coaches get way too much credit for wins, and way too much blame for losses.  The players on the field are the ones that have to block, tackle, complete passes, etc., or your team won't win.  The coaches can't do that for them.  

 

100% agree.  They'd always counter with "it was the coach who put the players on the field..."  or "it's the scheme the coach came up with"  etc...
 

I think the stakes of national championship competitive programs and NFL programs make it so that coaches have to win now.  I honestly think this is a terrible direction for terrible teams, because you end up like the Browns...or Purdue.  Always flip flopping on coaches and never have any stability to do anything.

[Balsy]

7 minutes ago, K92 said:

DH was at Kent for 2 years.  Not a great sample size.  2012 was a great season, no doubt.  I was not overly impressed with Kent or DH.  A 1-11 Zips team certainly had a chance to beat them at their place.  They sure had a dynamic playmaker on offense in Dri Archer who paired nicely with the lardass running back.  Can't remember his name.  QB was a stiff.

 

Defense lived off of turnovers.

 

DH cashed in and worked his magic at Purdue.  He now is on the short list to replace Charlie Strong at Texas.

 

You are right he is awesome.  If for nothing else, he is awesome for those sweet helmets they wore in the bowl game.

 

 

I'm biased.  Forgive me.  I hate Kent.

 

Fair enough, and I don't disagree with you.  But I'm just pointing out how that logic works, and that not getting enough of a sample size is what's important.  Has there been enough of a sample size on Bowden.  I don't think there has been.  If 2017 is a repeat of 2016, I'd start to agree with you.  If 2017 is like 2015, then I think the jury is still out.  I don't agree with the 1-2 season assessment of a coach.  I think it takes many years, as tough as it is for us as fans.  Do we want a program, or a Darrell Hazel.  That's where I stand on it

[K92]

21 minutes ago, Balsy said:

 

Fair enough, and I don't disagree with you.  But I'm just pointing out how that logic works, and that not getting enough of a sample size is what's important.  Has there been enough of a sample size on Bowden.  I don't think there has been.  If 2017 is a repeat of 2016, I'd start to agree with you.  If 2017 is like 2015, then I think the jury is still out.  I don't agree with the 1-2 season assessment of a coach.  I think it takes many years, as tough as it is for us as fans.  Do we want a program, or a Darrell Hazel.  That's where I stand on it

I hear what you're saying.  I just never got the feeling watching Kent that Darrell Hazell was the main impetus for their success.  I looked at them as being extremely fortunate in many instances that year when the ball bounced their way.  But then again, I'm biased.  I don't want to give them credit for anything.  What Darrell accomplished at Purdue affirmed in my mind my preconceived notion of him.  It's not impossible to win at Purdue.  Joe Tiller did it.

 

Anyhow.

 

A coach is ultimately graded on wins and losses, but a lot goes into that final record.  There are many roles and responsibilities of a coaching staff: recruiting, discipline, scheme, gameplanning, motivation, etc.  Feel free to add in any other aspect you like.  I would be curious what you and others think is most important.

[LZIp]

2 hours ago, K92 said:

Huh?

Years mixed up. Forgot about Fleck's 1-11 year (crazy that such a good coach had a 1-11 season right?). Good thing WMU stuck with him. Ianello only had two years and was stuck with JD's recruits. Should he have been given more time? What about Herman, he won with mostly upper classman that he didn't recruit. Does he not get credit? Texas thinks he deserves plenty.

Edited November 26, 2016 by LZIp

[K92]

22 minutes ago, LZIp said:

Years mixed up. Forgot about Fleck's 1-11 year (crazy that such a good coach had a 1-11 season right?). Good thing WMU stuck with him. Ianello only had two years and was stuck with JD's recruits. Should he have been given more time? What about Herman, he won with mostly upper classman that he didn't recruit. Does he not get credit? Texas thinks he deserves plenty.

I didn't forget about Fleck's 1-11 season.

 

1-11/8-5/8-5/12-0

 

That's called turning a program around.

 

No.  Ianello shouldn't have had more time.  It wasn't just the 1-11 record, it was the complete and total ineptitude that was displayed getting there.  Bowden was 1-11 his first year but the team was head and shoulders better than the 2 previous years.  He received full credit for achieving that on this forum.

 

I am not a huge fan of Tom Herman.  We will see what he can do at Texas if he gets that job.

 

Anything else?

[LZIp]

Herman's resume blows Fleck's out of the water and its not even close. Not sure how credit can be given to the latter but not the former. That isn't a knock on Fleck as I've tooted his horn on this board well before most. Not sure how one can not be impressed with him unless they have a preconceived bias because of where he came from.

[K92]

3 minutes ago, LZIp said:

Herman's resume blows Fleck's out of the water and its not even close. Not sure how credit can be given to the latter but not the former. That isn't a knock on Fleck as I've tooted his horn on this board well before most. Not sure how one can not be impressed with him unless they have a preconceived bias because of where he came from.

I don't think he's a bad coach.  He's done a nice job.  It's only been 2 years, though.  Not a real good sample size.  I wish him luck.  I'm no hater.

 

On the other hand, Houston has been good in the past.  They have a great fertile recruiting ground.  Western has gone to a place they've never been before.

 

On top of this, and perhaps most importantly, I could give 2 squirts about Houston.  I am green with envy over Western.  Just to be real honest.

[Balsy]

2 hours ago, K92 said:

I hear what you're saying.  I just never got the feeling watching Kent that Darrell Hazell was the main impetus for their success.  I looked at them as being extremely fortunate in many instances that year when the ball bounced their way.  But then again, I'm biased.  I don't want to give them credit for anything.  What Darrell accomplished at Purdue affirmed in my mind my preconceived notion of him.  It's not impossible to win at Purdue.  Joe Tiller did it.

 

Anyhow.

 

A coach is ultimately graded on wins and losses, but a lot goes into that final record.  There are many roles and responsibilities of a coaching staff: recruiting, discipline, scheme, gameplanning, motivation, etc.  Feel free to add in any other aspect you like.  I would be curious what you and others think is most important.

 

I agree with each of those, but each of those may vary from year to year, from program to program, on what is the most important.  Wins And losses are important, but you can have a down year (like this year) and be making progress in other aspects (recruiting).  

 

I don't think it's fair to compare the Zips to WMU.  It's more fair to compare us to Kent (on what could be, and you don't want to have happen).  It's not like WMU was a bottom dweller in the MAC and then Fleck came to save the day.  Between '05 (the last time we had any success) and Fleck's tenure:  they went 51-46, 5 winning seasons, 3 bowl appearances.  That's a far cry from our 1 bowl appearance and 1 winning season.  To act as if WMU and Akron are in the same boat in what could have been is ridiculous.

 

Now Kent State's history is almost IDENTICAL to ours:  From '05 to 2012 when they went 11-3...they were 28-54.  From '05-'12 they were 39-55.  They caught lightning in a bottle, for a year and then returned to mediocrity:  12-35.  

 

Again, I will take stability over gambling for lightning in a bottle any day of the week.  I personally would rather have an Ohio University like team that can pull out 7 or 8 wins a year, go bowling with a chance at the MAC C, than catching lightning in the bottle.  That's the reality of the MAC.  And, despite looking absolutely terrible most of the season, Ohio is doing just that...8 wins, and MACC appearance.  THAT is what the Zips should shoot to be.  They've achieved that by stability in coaching staff.  Solich has been there since '05.  They've gone 88-65.  After their first bowl appearance with Solich they went 6-6, 4-8.  Had they pulled the trigger on getting rid of him after those two years; would they had gone 9-5, 8-5, 10-4, 9-4, 7-6 with 2 MACC and 5 bowl appearances?

 

THAT is what I want for Akron, and I'm being realistic.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Balsy

[K92]

You think Bowden can get the Zips record to 88-65?  Right now he's 24-37.  64-28 going forward?