Local interest and attendance

[ZachTheZip]

We saw last year how importance attendance is to our football program. The university had to make up numbers just so we could remain 1-A. I want to ask, what exactly needs to be done to get butts in seats? I know the AD is selling huge chunks of seats to local companies, which generate revenue, but those seats remain empty throughout the season. A full stadium, even once this season, would do wonders for the team's morale, for recruiting, and will cause the fans to get the idea that the community cares about it's football team. I've seen many suggestions on how to fix this problem. Some have been carried out by the athletic department and marketing, such as free giveaways and contests, but every school does that.What is the difference between us and other schools with better attendance? I believe it is a lack of local players on the team. Half our team is from the Pittsburgh area, and that city isn't exactly looked well upon around here.We need players who played high school football in the area, Players that local people are already familiar with. Just look at the basketball team for a good example. Last year we had Rome, Dru, Wood, and Goddard out there, and people had known about them since they were freshmen in high school. They are local heroes. We didn't have any of them on our football team last year. I hope this is starting to change. Fans want to cheer for people they are familiar with. It helps if players already have a reputation in the area, instead of having to prove their worth to a very cautiosly optimistic group of fans.P.S.:This isn't a knock on our current players' talent or home cities at all. It's just that your average joe has no clue who is on our team. Maybe he would pay more attention if there were players from his HS alma mater out there on the field.

[UA Fan]

If we have all local players and they can't win games, no one will come. If we have all out of state players and the team is ranked, people will come. What we need to improve attendance:1. outstanding players2. new stadium on campus3. win games4. outstanding marching band, promotions & marketing5. OSU not contending for nat'l champion

[Captain Kangaroo]

What is the difference between us and other schools with better attendance?  I believe it is a lack of local players on the team.  Half our team is from the Pittsburgh area, and that city isn't exactly looked well upon around here.

I disagree with that 100%.First of all, the local players need to want to come to U of A. And their coaches need to promote U of A as a solid option. That's not happening right now. The best local kids go elsewhere. And I don't want the local table scraps. If the best of the area don't want to play here, then we must look elsewhere.Look at Travis and Joyce - Undeniably two of the biggest "local" HS names of the past decade. They played before a 1/2 empty JAR for the better part of their careers. Why? Because they didn't win championships. When they finally won a championship (of sorts) the JAR was filled for the stretch run.To insinuate people don't follow the Zips because a percentage of kids are from western Pa is nuts. Does everyone dislike Jason Taylor because he's from Pittsburgh? No. Zips fans love the guy. Who wants David Harvey, right? He's from the hated Pittsburgh area! Ummmm...no, that's not the case. Once he puts his helmet on, he's a Zip and no one cares which piece of land he hails from. Harvey was, in fact, arguably the most popular Zips player in 2006.No one is excited to see Steve Sweich this upcoming basketball season, right? He's from the Pittsburgh area! Wrong...everyone here can't wait to see him play.Everyone loved Charlie Frye. Ask 100 Zips fans to find Willard Ohio on a blank state map and I bet 50% would miss it by 100 miles. His popularity came from being able to "ball." Not because he was perceived as local.Browns fans...typically also OSU fans...would hate Braylon Edwards even if he had 1,600 yard and 15 TDs becuase he's from Michigan, right? Come on...there'd be 10,000+ Edwards jerseys at every Browns home game and 8,000 of those would be on the backs of buckeye fans.People will follow a winner. It is as simple as that, and no different than in any other town. They'll still follow a non-winning team IF they are rebuilding from a winning season. People will not, en mass, support consistently bad or medioce teams. And they won't show up to see athletes simply because they're "local."If a local star wants to stay home, that's great. I know JD's staff had offers out to six Akron area HS Juniors as early as January 2007. If they don't want to attend U of A, there's noting we can do about it. Except recruit the best kids we can, and win games.

[GP1]

We saw last year how importance attendance is to our football program. The university had to make up numbers just so we could remain 1-A. I want to ask, what exactly needs to be done to get butts in seats? I know the AD is selling huge chunks of seats to local companies, which generate revenue, but those seats remain empty throughout the season.

Your first point ties in with the second point. The University did not make up numbers last year. Community minded companies bought the tickets and nobody went.As far as give away items, they should be kept to a minimum, as they cost money and we run at about a $7 million loss every year, unless they can PROVE that those items are bringing people to games (holy run on sentence Batman). People now go through the gates at sporting events with their hands out for something for free like homeless people at the St. Bernard food kitchen.I don't know if UofA has ever known for sure why people do or do not come to games. They need to find out and find out soon. Marketing and sales information is best collected through the field. The marketing staff needs to get out and sell to the community so they can find out if their marketing campaign is working or not. Throughout the history of UofA, the marketing staff has focused on billboard buying and general self promotion for their next job. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting the same results is the definition of insanity. Goinig out to the community and selling the program is different and should be attempted by more than just the ISP group.I think changing the culture around Akron to support the programs in a meaningful way is a Herculean task. Just winning championships will not solve this problem because it is too difficult to win year in and year out in a conference like the MAC. One year without a championship gives people the excuse not to support the University any longer if that is their motivation for buying. A person who is on the fence can talk themself out of all sorts of things. On the fence fan thinking: "How many championships are necessary for me to buy season tickets?...... They won one last year, but maybe I'll wait to see how they do this year and then decide the next year." This is a horrible fan to base our fan base on.The people around Akron need to feel a part of the program regardless of whether they attended UofA or not. This has never been attempted. I saw a pocket schedule for next year and I think they have done a good job of trying to make people feel a part of the program. It is based on the "Fear The Roo" idea we stole off of Maryland. Pocket schedules and fancy print outs are only good if someone goes out and delivers the message. Mack needs to go out and deliver the message.

[Zip_ME87]

What is the difference between us and other schools with better attendance?  I believe it is a lack of local players on the team.  Half our team is from the Pittsburgh area, and that city isn't exactly looked well upon around here.

I disagree with that 100%.First of all, the local players need to want to come to U of A. And their coaches need to promote U of A as a solid option. That's not happening right now. The best local kids go elsewhere. And I don't want the local table scraps. If the best of the area don't want to play here, then we must look elsewhere.Look at Travis and Joyce - Undeniably two of the biggest "local" HS names of the past decade. They played before a 1/2 empty JAR for the better part of their careers. Why? Because they didn't win championships. When they finally won a championship (of sorts) the JAR was filled for the stretch run.To insinuate people don't follow the Zips because a percentage of kids are from western Pa is nuts. Does everyone dislike Jason Taylor because he's from Pittsburgh? No. Zips fans love the guy. Who wants David Harvey, right? He's from the hated Pittsburgh area! Ummmm...no, that's not the case. Once he puts his helmet on, he's a Zip and no one cares which piece of land he hails from. Harvey was, in fact, arguably the most popular Zips player in 2007.No one is excited to see Steve Sweich this upcoming basketball season, right? He's from the Pittsburgh area! Wrong...everyone here can't wait to see him play.Everyone loved Charlie Frye. Ask 100 Zips fans to find Willard Ohio on a blank state map and I bet 50% would miss it by 100 miles. His popularity came from being able to "ball." Not because he was perceived as local.Browns fans...typically also OSU fans...would hate Braylon Edwards even if he had 1,600 yard and 15 TDs becuase he's from Michigan, right? Come on...there'd be 10,000+ Edwards jerseys at every Browns home game and 8,000 of those would be on the backs of buckeye fans.People will follow a winner. It is as simple as that, and no different than in any other town. They'll still follow a non-winning team IF they are rebuilding from a winning season. People will not, en mass, support consistently bad or medioce teams. And they won't show up to see athletes simply because they're "local."If a local star wants to stay home, that's great. I know JD's staff had offers out to six Akron area HS Juniors as early as January 2007. If they don't want to attend U of A, there's noting we can do about it. Except recruit the best kids we can, and win games.

I absolutely agree CK. I also think the new on-campus football stadium will be a huge help to the football program. Those living on or near campus will be able to access it easily; it will be new; and, for those of us driving in from places as far as 30 or more miles away, I'd much prefer to actually come to our beautiful renovated campus (Landscape for WINNING).

[Valpo Zip]

Just look at the basketball team for a good example. Last year we had Rome, Dru, Wood, and Goddard out there, and people had known about them since they were freshmen in high school. They are local heroes.

And what did that achieve ? an average of 3000 people/game ?!!!

[Zipsrifle]

1) We need to win. Things are much better now than they were in past, but we need to be at the top of the East year in and year out. Nobody likes a looser.2) Scheduling. Our scheduling sucks. I live out of state, and Akron makes it very, very difficult for me to make it to games. F the MAC, F ESPN. I'm sick and tired of Tues, Trs. night games. If we get a weekday game, there better be only 1 a year and it better be against Can't early in the year, or with something on the line late in the season. Can't State needs to be early in the season, PERIOD! That was a HUGE crowd a few years ago!3) Tradition. There is NO TRADITION for the students on campus. No rallies, jumping in the fountain, following the band through campus, etc. When my buddies first started at OSU, they were swept in by the whole follow the band through campus thing. Need to get something like this started for the Freshman. It will take a few years to catch on.4) New Stadium. I didn't even know where the stadium was when I started at Akron. I didn't even know they were D1-A. I didn't even know what confrence they were in. The RB is too far away. It is an afterthough. Prospective students need to be shown an impressive stadium and fieldhouse when they come to campus.5) OSU needs to suck! Lets face it, with OSU winning, nobody is going to pay attention to Akron, no matter how good we are. If Akron goes undefeated, and OSU wins the Big 10 in a Bad year, OSU will still get all the press. That is the hand we've been dealt, we can't do anything about this. At some point, as with most people/programs in the spotlight, somebody will slip-up and OSU will fall slightly out of favor. We need to be on top when that happens and capitalize.IMO, we need to get our students involved. The community has shown that they are not going to suddently follow Akron. We need to build the Alumni base to get this program where it deserves to be.

[gozips19]

akron had tons of local players when owens was the coach. but like many have already posted, they weren't the elite players. i love the fact that western pa has become a place for akron to recruit. not only do they get big time talent out of that area it also helps with enrollment was there are many students considering akron now. other than that i agree with many of the other posts on the board. this will take some time but the university is on the right track!

[skip-zip]

It's probably a little bit easier to talk about what has NOT worked, and go from there...Back in the 80's, when I was a student, we all thought that playing the Auburn's and Florida's of the world would generate interest, and attendance would skyrocket. It didn't happen. Then people thought that having a big-time team playing in Akron would bring a huge crowd. We played a home game against Virginia Tech in the mid-90's (can't remember the year) and the attendance was about 11,000. So, we found out that this was not true either. We've done giveaways, "Zips Fest", and all sorts of other promotions, with little success.One thing that DID work was the old Acme/Zip promotions. Getting a big corporate sponsor behind a game, and using their stores to sell tickets, was very very successful for years. However, I understand that it was a big money loser for the University because of all the discounted tickets. And, most of the those people would not come to another game the rest of the year. So, I think we're left with two possibilities that have not happened...1) A consistent string of winning records.2) A nice football stadium.When these two things occur, and we are still not getting good attendance, then I will have run out of possibilities to solve the attendance problem.

[Captain Kangaroo]

My two cents on your post (from another 80's Zips guy)

Back in the 80's, when I was a student, we all thought that playing the Auburn's and Florida's of the world would generate interest, and attendance would skyrocket. It didn't happen.

If we would have been even mildly competitive in those games, there would have been interest. The games against Auburn and Florida were played with a mish-mash of 1-AA and early 1-A players as the Zips made the transition to 1-A football. No one in their right mind should have thought we could generate interest in the Zips program by going down to SEC country and getting mauled.

Then people thought that having a big-time team playing in Akron would bring a huge crowd. We played a home game against Virginia Tech in the mid-90's (can't remember the year) and the attendance was about 11,000. So, we found out that this was not true either.

The Virginia Tech game is absolutely in no way shape or form a posterchild for why we shouldn't bring "name" teams to the Rubber Bowl.1.) Virginia Tech wasn't as "name" a program in 1996(?) as it is today. It was the early days of Beamer Ball, when they were just beginning to hang around the top 20. The Tech teams of the late 80's and early 90's were terrible.2.) The game was held during a hurricane (Hugo? I forget). Yes, the second half was sunny, but the first half was played in a constant downpour. People in Akron won't show up in a hurricane to see anyone.3.) The Zips were coming off a 2-9 season. It was the end of the Faust era and the very beginning of the Owens era. Community interest was at an all-time low.I don't think a game such as this, where the Zips were terrible...the opponent was marginally well known...and the weather was a legitimate hurricane...is a good example of why not to bring a "name" team to the Rubber Bowl. It is solely an example of what happens when your team is terrible.

We've done giveaways, "Zips Fest", and all sorts of other promotions, with little success.

Those promotions are "nice" but if anyone was banking on them to draw 30,000 people, they're nuts. "Zipsfest" and bobbleheads is good for a couple thousand people, at best.

One thing that DID work was the old Acme/Zip promotions. Getting a big corporate sponsor behind a game, and using their stores to sell tickets, was very very successful for years. However, I understand that it was a big money loser for the University because of all the discounted tickets. And, most of the those people would not come to another game the rest of the year.

True. But Acme had a lot of "pull" in the area 1990 and prior. It wouldn't work today. Acme is too small now-a-days to put up any reasonable money or promotions.

So, I think we're left with two possibilities that have not happened...1) A consistent string of winning records.2) A nice football stadium.When these two things occur, and we are still not getting good attendance, then I will have run out of possibilities to solve the attendance problem.

BINGO!!!You see a lot of stuff posted here regarding "How do we get people to the football games?" "Zipsfest," bobbleheads, more local recruits, promotions...all that adds up to about 20% of what needs to be done. Playing in a clean, first class, centrally located stadium in a collegiate environment is good for about another 30%. The remaining 50% is, as you stated, winning and winning consistently. You saw it at the Motor City Bowl and MAC Championships. People want to be part of a winner. If you lose for two consecutive decades, you can hand out all the bobbleheads you want and you'll still draw flies. I, by the way, qualify as a "fly" since I have sat through some God-awful stuff over the past 20 years.To me, the winning will come. And soon. "Why?" you might ask. We sucked last year, right?Yeah, we sucked last year. But for the first time we actually have the foundation to be successful. Unlike the Faust and Owens years, we have primo facilities. We will also have a state of the art stadium in two years. Those two things will allow us to consistently draw the top coaching and student athlete talent possible. The programs (other schools) that moved from 1-AA to 1-A after the Zips all had the foundation for success planned. With Akron, Must rolled out of bed one morning and said "I want to be 1-A," with zero planning or foundation to support it. And you see what we got. I always liked the quote: "Some people look at thinks the way they are and ask 'Why?' I prefer to look at the things that aren't and ask, 'Why not?'"There are a lot of people at The University over the past couple decades why sat with their thumbs up their asses and asked "Why?". The Mike Thomas/Proenza team was the first to look at the potential of our University and athletic programs and ask "Why not?"I said it before and I'll say it again. "F the past!" Forget it. It is over, and it is irrelevant to today's programs, facilities and leadership. You can look at the history of our last twenty year only as a reference for what should NOT be done to build a fan base, alumni following and student support. If you look at it as some sort of proof that success can't be had at the turnstiles or on the field at The University of Akron...to be polite...you and I disagree.Note: Although I kinda worked off your post, this isn't any disrespect to you, Skip. I'm speaking about the public in general.

[skip-zip]

Kangaroo. I always welcome the input of someone from my era, who has shared in my many year of frustration. I'm an '87 grad, so I've seen enough already. Let's hope we finally get the stadium, and get the winning tradition, and can finally say that we've found the formula for getting people to attend home games. I'm kind of getting tired of being able to walk over row after row of empty seats to get to my seats. And my seats are ON THE 45 YARD LINE !!

[ZachTheZip]

Oh man. I go away for one weekend and things go crazy around here. After reading your guy's posts, I can see that I was mis-interpreted a bit. When I started this topic, it was simply food for thought. UA has tried everything they realistically could to get people to the Rubber Bowl. I was simply putting up a suggestion. It would give the team better news coverage, which would possibly encourage a few extra thousand people to show up. I have come to the conclusion that absolutely nothing will cause us to fill up the Rubber Bowl, so lets hope the new stadium lives up to the hype. Do you honestly think that even if we were 11-1 last year that we would have a single sell-out crowd during next year's season? We wouldn't. No one wants to navigate that traffic nightmare around the Rubber Bowl. Even after we build the stadium, interest will wane after about two years unless we can string together back-to-back winning seasons, preferably with us going to some bowl games, all of which has to coincide with OSU having an off-year or two. I hope JD can stick around and take this program to the next level soon. The board is set, and the pieces are in motion... now lets go for the checkmate.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Even after we build the stadium, interest will wane after about two years unless we can string together back-to-back winning seasons, preferably with us going to some bowl games, all of which has to coincide with OSU having an off-year or two.

I don't believe OSU's success has anything to do with our attendance. It better not, or we should give up now and go home. OSU has over 100,000,000 reasons why there's no chance they're going to have a losing football season anytime soon. Plus when you've got that kind of budget and play a schedule filled with YSU, MAC schools, Minnesota, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue, etc. you've pretty much got 9-10 wins "locked" before the season begins. OSU is in a 2008 BCS bowl as of today.Yes, the Zips need to schedule with OSU in mind...ie. don't schedule the Akron/K.e.n.t game the same date OSU plays Michigan...at least if you want people to show up. But the Zips can carve their own 20k+ per Saturday niche if they take care of business on the field and Marketing-wise. YSU draws 20k for their 1-AA football when things are going well, regardless of OSU. It should happen in Akron too. Unless people are lazy and just want to use the OSU thing as an excuse.

[skip-zip]

Wow..this is good food for thought...I actually agree with uaakronkid that, to some extent, people will come during the first couple of years to enjoy the new stadium, and won't return. But if we're winning consistently by that point, I would hope that we can turn some of the curiosity-seekers into long-term fans. And concerning Ohio State. Kangaroo...remember that OSU was desperately close to having a losing record back in 2001. But, I don't think that it helped us increase our attendance, so I would have to agree that OSU's success (or lack of) doesn't have much bearing on our attendance figures.Please, just let me see some consistent winning sometime soon. Because, if that doesn't bring in the fans, I'm really at a loss for answers.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I actually agree with uaakronkid that, to some extent, people will come during the first couple of years to enjoy the new stadium, and won't return. But if we're winning consistently by that point, I would hope that we can turn some of the curiosity-seekers into long-term fans.

The new stadium will help attendance marginally if the team isn't any good. Right now I think we lose a few thousand in "family" attendance because no one wants to see their toddler get tetnus from rusty seat bolts or hates picking fiberglass out of their butt cheeks for a week after the game. I guarantee they'll spend a nice fall day at a first class stadium.

And concerning Ohio State. Kangaroo...remember that OSU was desperately close to having a losing record back in 2001.

The landscape of college football, and football at OSU has changed dramatically since 2001. I don't see OSU having a bad stretch in football for quite some time.

Please, just let me see some consistent winning sometime soon. Because, if that doesn't bring in the fans, I'm really at a loss for answers.

Don't worry. People show up for a winner. Unfortunately for the past two decades, other than the 15k we brought to Detroit, you can't see direct proof in Akron. But it is proven at just about every level, in every city in every major sport.When the Browns stink, there are thousands of empty seats. When they're good, they sell out. When the Indians stink, there are thousands of empty seats. When they're good they sell out. When YSU stinks, they have thousands of empty seats. When they're back in the playoffs, the city shows up. Akron's no different.

[eguins]

Schedule Youngstown State---You get a packed house.Attendance may have been down when we struggled from 2002-2005; but we still averaged 14,000 during those seasons. Next season's season ticket numbers are already up for Youngstown State; mainly due to a 7 game home tilt; and all season ticket holders get a ticket to the OSU game. If YSU continues to dominate at home, I bet we can expect 17,500-18,000 on average this year.I agree, we CAN ALL BENEFIT FROM OHIO STATE SUCKING!But in all seriousness, YSU wants to play you; most of you know playing YSU gets a huge crowd: LET'S DO IT!!!!! YSU will bring at least 8-10,000.

[timmyboy]

Schedule Youngstown State---You get a packed house.Attendance may have been down when we struggled from 2002-2005; but we still averaged 14,000 during those seasons. Next season's season ticket numbers are already up for Youngstown State; mainly due to a 7 game home tilt; and all season ticket holders get a ticket to the OSU game. If YSU continues to dominate at home, I bet we can expect 17,500-18,000 on average this year.I agree, we CAN ALL BENEFIT FROM OHIO STATE SUCKING!But in all seriousness, YSU wants to play you; most of you know playing YSU gets a huge crowd: LET'S DO IT!!!!! YSU will bring at least 8-10,000.

How is cotton looking for you guys? I dunno all the details as to why he left OSU but im sure it wasent for lack of playing time because i seen him playing a decent amount. Did he get into some type of trouble that kinda forced him to leave? I am with you. I would like to see us play you guys. I mean heck if it gets 10,000 like you say on top of the 10 thousand im sure we would have there it could be the nighest attendance turnout for Akron Since probably the Marshall game on national TV a few years back. Lets get on the athletic departments an get somthing done cuz i looked at the schedule and in 08, we still have an opening.

[74ZIP]

you wanna put a FEW more backsides in the BOWL? stop starting the season 0-4 or 1-3...look even when i was watching decent Akron teams in the 60's and 70's they didn't draw all that many except for the good old Acme Zip game when they always had 30,000+...i don't care how many times you play OSU,PSU,IU...etc,etc on the road and lose...except for us and a few others that only turns people off...always has around here because people don't see the ZIPS as consistently playing for anything meaningful...if you want to be 0-4 or 1-3 to start the season just to make money, go for it...but don't expect anyone around here to pay attention...they'll watch a high school game on Friday night, watch the Bucks on Saturday and the Browns on SUNDAY...its a shame but thats the way its always been in akron...no matter bring on ARMY!

[timmyboy]

you wanna put a FEW more backsides in the BOWL? stop starting the season 0-4 or 1-3...look even when i was watching decent Akron teams in the 60's and 70's they didn't draw all that many except for the good old Acme Zip game when they always had 30,000+...i don't care how many times you play OSU,PSU,IU...etc,etc on the road and lose...except for us and a few others that only turns people off...always has around here because people don't see the ZIPS as consistently playing for anything meaningful...if you want to be 0-4 or 1-3 to start the season just to make money, go for it...but don't expect anyone around here to pay attention...they'll watch a high school game on Friday night, watch the Bucks on Saturday and the Browns on SUNDAY...its a shame but thats the way its always been in akron...no matter bring on ARMY!

I only said play them because they are a power in the D1A. They made it pretty deep in the playoffs last year before losing to evenutal national champions app. st. It isnt like im saying to play tiffin, YSU has shown that they have some talent. Heck some of the kids that JD and Akron try to get end up signing with YSU.... so it isnt like they are skum.

[eguins]

Well as most of you probably know by now Sian Cotton, from Akron St. V's, transferred into Youngstown State this past fall... I believe it's due to academics. Heacock is very tough on those with bad grades, and I understand he working very hard to get them fixed.Lebron James was at the annual Red-White Spring Game a couple weeks back to check him out, Lebron reserved the entire east side of the stadium for him and his posse, which included Dru Joyce and Romeo Travis.He is going to be a force for the Penguins, the line play last year was outstanding for YSU.