More "No Love" for Charley

[johnnyzip84]

LinkNot to pile on, but here is Peter King's NFL QB rankings.

[UA Fan]

Worthless rankings. No consideration given to the team they play on, receivers, OL, running game, etc. Take it for what it's worth...nothing. SI is a joke for sponsoring this tripe.As for how I arrived at my picks, other than with a divining rod, I used a few measuring sticks. I value wins from my quarterback, and that helped Manning and Brady, the leaders in victories over the last two years. I value postseason success, and their seven combined wins over the past two years is significant. Completion percentage and yards-per-attempt are the two passing stats I value the most because they tell you how often a quarterback succeeds in efficiently moving the chains through the air. Finally, intangibles. Brady led all passers with a 10 on a 10-point scale, because he's a coach, an offseason facilitator, a free-agent recruiter -- and he does it while retaining respect from the guys he often has to lean on hard.

[sgm405]

Worthless rankings. No consideration given to the team they play on, receivers, OL, running game, etc. Take it for what it's worth...nothing. SI is a joke for sponsoring this tripe.As for how I arrived at my picks, other than with a divining rod, I used a few measuring sticks. I value wins from my quarterback, and that helped Manning and Brady, the leaders in victories over the last two years. I value postseason success, and their seven combined wins over the past two years is significant. Completion percentage and yards-per-attempt are the two passing stats I value the most because they tell you how often a quarterback succeeds in efficiently moving the chains through the air. Finally, intangibles. Brady led all passers with a 10 on a 10-point scale, because he's a coach, an offseason facilitator, a free-agent recruiter -- and he does it while retaining respect from the guys he often has to lean on hard.

What arguments do you have for him to be any higher?

[Hilltopper]

LinkNot to pile on, but here is Peter King's NFL QB rankings.

Troll

[sgm405]

LinkNot to pile on, but here is Peter King's NFL QB rankings.

Troll

Why is he a troll?

[Zipgrad1990]

I'm a big Charlie fan, but even I couldn't rank him much differently based on his play so far. I don't know how much higher you can rank him based on the bad team he had around him. The only way to know for sure would be to take the top ranked qb and play him on the Browns last season to see what it does to that qb's rating. Since this is impossible, Charlie may deserve being a couple of spots higher due to the state of his team last year. But I don't see moving him up more than 2-3 spots. Besides if you do this for all the qbs, maybe Charlie would end up back at number 31 anyway.This is the year for Charlie to proof himself. Either he improves or his career as a starter is over. I think he can hang around as a backup somewhere, even here in Cleveland if he wants.

[UA Fan]

Worthless rankings.  No consideration given to the team they play on, receivers, OL, running game, etc.  Take it for what it's worth...nothing.  SI is a joke for sponsoring this tripe.As for how I arrived at my picks, other than with a divining rod, I used a few measuring sticks. I value wins from my quarterback, and that helped Manning and Brady, the leaders in victories over the last two years. I value postseason success, and their seven combined wins over the past two years is significant. Completion percentage and yards-per-attempt are the two passing stats I value the most because they tell you how often a quarterback succeeds in efficiently moving the chains through the air. Finally, intangibles. Brady led all passers with a 10 on a 10-point scale, because he's a coach, an offseason facilitator, a free-agent recruiter -- and he does it while retaining respect from the guys he often has to lean on hard.

What arguments do you have for him to be any higher?

If Frye played for the Colts, he would have better passing stats, more wins, and get to the playoffs more often so by SI's criteria that means he'd be ranked at least near the middle of the pack. If Manning played for the Browns, he would have worse stats and fewer wins so that means he's a mediocre QB, right? These are team rankings more so than individual QB rankings.

[johnnyzip84]

Why is he a troll? 

Yeah, what HE said! Actually, I only out this up to show that at least Peter King thinks Frye will be the starter anyway. I'm in the camp that believes that we don't really know how good of an NFL QB Charley can be or not just yet. I hope he takes advantage of the limited opportunity he get this year. Obviously it's key that he gets out of the blocks well. Maybe he'll play with a "nothing to lose" mentality, which I think would serve him well.I disagree with the poster who maligned Charley's UA career by focusing on the team's record during his tenure. His teams moved the ball well, even against the better competition. The DEE almost always let them down.

[GP1]

I disagree with the poster who maligned Charley's UA career by focusing on the team's record during his tenure. His teams moved the ball well, even against the better competition. The DEE almost always let them down.

He did just enough to lose.

[Dr Z]

Consider the source...Peter King (blow hard know nothing).Shouldn't he have made a list of the top 32 places to get a cup of coffee?Or maybe the top 10 Springsteen songs?

[skip-zip]

GP1...I know you like to bash Charlie. But you're going to extremes when you say that he did "just enough for us to lose" when he was our quarterback. I would have hated to see just how bad some of those seasons would have been if Charlie was not here. He was the best player on a team that had no defense, got blitzed repeatedly, and often played hurt.As far as his pro career goes, we don't know what's going to happen. All we know at this point is how he compares to other NFL starters in their first 16 games as a starter. And with those numbers, and taking into consideration the team he play on, he compares quite favorably.As for the future? Who know.

[Hilltopper]

I disagree with the poster who maligned Charley's UA career by focusing on the team's record during his tenure.  His teams moved the ball well, even against the better competition.  The DEE almost always let them down.

He did just enough to lose.

My point is how many threads do we need that take potshots at one of our former players? There was already a thread talking about how Frye is "washed up" on the board. All this new thread is doing is getting the Frye supporters riled up. If you were a potential recruit and looked at this site how would you feel about one of the Zips former players get raked over the coals on a regular basis?GP1, I ask again, what has Frye done to you that you despise him so much?

[Big Zip]

It's simple he plays for the enemy as far as GP1 is concerned he plays for the Browns. That is what he did to GP1 -- he was drafted by the Browns.GP1 is simply a Browns hater. I've mentioned it before, a person with absolute hatred for team has credibility problems when trying to discuss objectively. On the other hand those that root for that team have the same problem. My guess is the answer regarding Charlie's ability lies some where in the middle -- closer to the his career is in his own hands and we'll see what he's made of this year. This can be a make or break year for Charlie. It will go a long way to determining if he starts in this league or is a career back-up.To your point though -- I think it would be helpful to discontinue the Charlie stories until after this year. We can then surmise about him. I don't think there is any reason to bash him in any regard. Especially to the extent GP1 does relative to his play at Akron. That I thought was something beyond question, but maybe his black and gold colored lenses have poisoned him retroactively.

[sgm405]

1) With Charlie's individual statistics, team success, lack of improvement in his time in the league, and general lack of top-flight raw abilty, how could anyone rank him higher? I have yet to hear an argument for Charlie being ranked higher, or for Charlie being considered a good quarterback. I hear that he has nothing around him, that the coaches are bad, that all QB's start out bad, etc etc etc. Doesn't he have to take some ownership for his play? And can anyone...ANYONE...present an argument that shows why Charlie should be ranked higher than the bottom of the barrel at this point and time?2) Just because a person doesn't like Frye as an NFL QB doesn't mean they are "bashing" or "hating". Let's face it, he's done little to prove otherwise. And that's their opinion. I can't stand Brady Quinn, but I think he has the skills necessary to become a very good NFL QB. It's nothing personal against Charlie, I think we all wish him the best. But at the same point, when did ZN become a cheerleading site? Why is someone attacked for saying what most say outside of Akron - that Frye is mediocre at best...??? I thought ZN was made up of fans who liked and presented good, honest analysis. Maybe I'm wrong...you know...I don't want to "disrespect" Zips fans again.

[Hilltopper]

Your beating a dead horse SGM405. We all know you think Frye can't play. Let it go, you'll feel better in the long run.

[Dr Z]

More from Adam ScheinHe forgot more about football just today than PK knows.

[GoZips]

Dr. Z, sadly I have to disagree about Adam Schein. While he may know more aboutfootball than Peter King (that does not take much), Schein's analysis of the Brownsis way off base.Crennel IS on the hot seat along with gutless Phil Savage. Basically, they are in thisfor the paychecks while they update their resumes. Nothing short of a winning recordcan save their jobs.Lerner calls the shots and he knows less about football than SGM, GP1 and Peter King.Old coot owners wanting a Super Bowl ring before they croak are the worst possibleowners. To them, its win now. Now is all they ever have.I stated this once before; Crennel could not rein in two rambunctious kids. What makesanyone believe that Romeo can handle a rich thug like Eric Wright? Wright will NOT getthrough the season without a major fracas with John Law. Wright is bum. He willprove this to one and all. Remind me at the end of the season if I am wrong. I wont be. He is a bum.The new talent both from free agency and the draft will help some. I think the Brownswill not finish last in their division. But, they wont be in the playoffs or have a winningrecord. Perhaps I should say, I hope the Browns do not finish last in their division.Most of it rests on solidifying the offensive line. The O-line has to get better. It mustget better or it will be a repeat of last season.The running game depends on a line that can open holes. Jamal Lewis still has a bit oflife in his legs. Then to, so did Droughns. And where is Reuben? Like Frye he was blamed for not producing yardage and scores.Its the line, stupid. Its the line. It all begins and ends with the line.No matter how much anyone likes, loves and/or slobbers over Brady Quinn, he is simply not a factor in this year's team. Personally, I want Lerner to demand they play Quinn from day one. That will shut up a lot of stupid people in a hurry. He's not ready.The Browns management lacks an intelligent plan to improve the team. Actually,I think Phil Savage had an intelligent plan. But, as I stated, he is gutless. WhenLerner phoned in to go after Quinn after they elected to pass on him. Savage failed tostand up to old man Lerner and say "NO". The Browns do not need Quinn. They needed an older veteran QB to tutor Frye. Theproblem is not at QB. Its the O-line, stupid. They invested two years in Frye. TheBrowns saw continual improvement in Charley on the field. He proved his mettlein the last game of the season where he executed well and played smart. He hasearned his job. Unknowledgeable sports writers and lame sports talk show hostsjust love to stir up controversy when ever they can.If the O-line produces the team keeps possession, scores, reduces the time the defense is on the field, etc.Schein bought into the dribble about Derek Anderson. That tells me that he does not have a real grasp on the situation in Cleveland. Anderson will only start at QB if Fryeis injured or traded. And since the Browns wont trade Frye that means the stupid people's other darling, DA, will chart for Frye.Frye is your quarterback, like it or not. And for all you jackasses that think Charleycan not play and never did play you best get your heads out of your biased azzes.

[Zippysgotagun]

GoZips, I'll agree with almost everything you said. The only disagreement I have is about Eric Wright. In my opinion, I think he'll be ok. He knows (whether he admits it or not) he made mistakes at USC, but if you can live in Las Vegas for as long as he did and stay out of trouble, I think you can keep in line anywhere you go.EDIT: Look what pac-man did in only a weekend in Vegas...

[GoZips]

ZIPPY, I pray you are right. Its just that every human being has weaknesses. Thedevil always tempts us where we are the weakest. Eric Wright has often shown thathe cannot keep himself under control. Now he has pockets stuffed full of cash. He has free time. He will be surrounded byleaches. He will face many temptations. Sooner or later he succumbs. He is, afterall, just human. He will make a prophet out of me.I want Eric to succeed. He appears to be an outstanding cornerback. And the Brownsneed him.

[sgm405]

Browns saw continual improvement in Charley on the field. He proved his mettlein the last game of the season where he executed well and played smart. He hasearned his job. Unknowledgeable sports writers and lame sports talk show hostsjust love to stir up controversy when ever they can.If the O-line produces the team keeps possession, scores, reduces the time the defense is on the field, etc.Schein bought into the dribble about Derek Anderson. That tells me that he does not have a real grasp on the situation in Cleveland. Anderson will only start at QB if Fryeis injured or traded. And since the Browns wont trade Frye that means the stupid people's other darling, DA, will chart for Frye.Frye is your quarterback, like it or not. And for all you jackasses that think Charleycan not play and never did play you best get your heads out of your biased azzes.

OK, I'll ask again. What has Charlie done to make you think he is a good NFL QB? So far, here is what I have heard:1) He is tough and gritty (although, in all honesty, most NFL players are)2) (Insert name here) wasn't that good at first either. 3) He is bad because else around him is bad.Seriously...what strengths does he have as an NFL QB? I'm not trying to be an ass...I really just don't see whatever it is and would love to find out what - aside from him being an Akron alum - people like about him as a player...???

[ZachTheZip]

I've stayed out of this meaningless thread for a while. I'll bit this time though, but don't expect me to reply again to this thread.First of all, I agree with Hilltopper's second to last post. Why do we feel the need to take potshots at former UA athletes? Especially ones that did so much for the athletic program? This is an Akron Zips fan website. Frye is a former Akron player. Why shouldn't we support him here, of all places?

Seriously...what strengths does he have as an NFL QB? I'm not trying to be an ass...I really just don't see whatever it is and would love to find out what - aside from him being an Akron alum - people like about him as a player...???

Well, the first thing that comes to mind for me is his leadership. He is the unquestioned leader of the offense out there on the field, even though a few other players have tried to steal the spotlight. He has great scrambling skills for an NFL QB, which I feel are underutilised. Hopefully the new OC will take advantage of his strengths and not rely on the same ineffective crap the Browns have been doing the last few seasons. The players all seem to love him as a QB. He has good chemistry with his teammates. He has a better arm than people give him credit for. He obviously isn't perfect, and is definetly not a top 10 QB, but he is not the worst in the league.If you want to bash him and pull up stats reflecting on the O-line more than what he brings to the table as a QB, then go do it on a website that isn't so closely affiliated with him. Complaining about him here is like if someone insulted a close friend of yours to your face. We know he's not perfect, but we still like him.You can't win here.

[sgm405]

I've stayed out of this meaningless thread for a while. I'll bit this time though, but don't expect me to reply again to this thread.First of all, I agree with Hilltopper's second to last post. Why do we feel the need to take potshots at former UA athletes? Especially ones that did so much for the athletic program? This is an Akron Zips fan website. Frye is a former Akron player. Why shouldn't we support him here, of all places?

Seriously...what strengths does he have as an NFL QB? I'm not trying to be an ass...I really just don't see whatever it is and would love to find out what - aside from him being an Akron alum - people like about him as a player...???

Well, the first thing that comes to mind for me is his leadership. He is the unquestioned leader of the offense out there on the field, even though a few other players have tried to steal the spotlight. He has great scrambling skills for an NFL QB, which I feel are underutilised. Hopefully the new OC will take advantage of his strengths and not rely on the same ineffective crap the Browns have been doing the last few seasons. The players all seem to love him as a QB. He has good chemistry with his teammates. He has a better arm than people give him credit for. He obviously isn't perfect, and is definetly not a top 10 QB, but he is not the worst in the league.If you want to bash him and pull up stats reflecting on the O-line more than what he brings to the table as a QB, then go do it on a website that isn't so closely affiliated with him. Complaining about him here is like if someone insulted a close friend of yours to your face. We know he's not perfect, but we still like him.You can't win here.

Some responses...- Why is an honest personal assessment of the guy as an NFL player a "potshot" or "bash" or whatever else? And how does my assessment reflect on my support for the guy? Hell, I'd love to see him succeed. It'd help the Browns win and it'd be great for Akron. I just don't think he's a very good NFL QB. I don't come here to be an Internet cheerleader...I come here to share my honest opinions on topics discussed on this forum. - So here is the opinion on Charlie (according to your post) - the guys like him and follow him, he can scramble, his arm isn't that bad, and the OC hasn't used him right. I'd agree with the first one, I guess I'll give you the second one...the third one I disagree with (his arm is weak) and the fourth I disagree with as well...there's only so much you can do when your QB makes bad decisions and can't throw the ball down the field.

[Dr Z]

Peter King, just not a fan of Charlie's team

[mrelegazna]

I've stayed out of this meaningless thread for a while. I'll bit this time though, but don't expect me to reply again to this thread.First of all, I agree with Hilltopper's second to last post. Why do we feel the need to take potshots at former UA athletes? Especially ones that did so much for the athletic program? This is an Akron Zips fan website. Frye is a former Akron player. Why shouldn't we support him here, of all places?

Seriously...what strengths does he have as an NFL QB? I'm not trying to be an ass...I really just don't see whatever it is and would love to find out what - aside from him being an Akron alum - people like about him as a player...???

Well, the first thing that comes to mind for me is his leadership. He is the unquestioned leader of the offense out there on the field, even though a few other players have tried to steal the spotlight. He has great scrambling skills for an NFL QB, which I feel are underutilised. Hopefully the new OC will take advantage of his strengths and not rely on the same ineffective crap the Browns have been doing the last few seasons. The players all seem to love him as a QB. He has good chemistry with his teammates. He has a better arm than people give him credit for. He obviously isn't perfect, and is definetly not a top 10 QB, but he is not the worst in the league.If you want to bash him and pull up stats reflecting on the O-line more than what he brings to the table as a QB, then go do it on a website that isn't so closely affiliated with him. Complaining about him here is like if someone insulted a close friend of yours to your face. We know he's not perfect, but we still like him.You can't win here.

This sounds dangerously close to "we shouldn't criticize Zips and former Zips here."Except for the occasional Can't, Y-town, and future opponent interloper, it goes without saying that we all want the Zips to kick ass, and all of their former players to kick ass too.But if we decide that criticizing certain players is out-of-bounds here, then you've taken away what makes this and any good message board great: objective analysis and uncensored opinions.

[g-mann17]

I thought ZN was made up of fans who liked and presented good, honest analysis. Maybe I'm wrong...you know...I don't want to "disrespect" Zips fans again.

Peyton Manning was the first draft pick of the 1998 NFL Draft, selected by Indianapolis, and started immediately for the team. Manning passed for 3,739 with 26 touchdowns and 28 interceptions. He set five different NFL rookie records, including most touchdown passes in a season and was named to the NFL All-Rookie First Team. The Colts finished 3-13. Frye in 20 starts has 3454 yd 14 TD to 23 Int. and 275 yds rushing and 4 rushing TD (voted Pepsi Rookie of the week twice during the 2005 season) the Browns were a combined 10-22 over the 2 years and Frye was responsible for 5 of those wins (that throwing the haters the bone for the KC game that Frye technically one and Anderson lucked into). Winslow and Edwards were MIA during the end of the 2005 season when Frye began playing. So you tell me why Frye shouldn't be rated higher?And there you go a good "honest" comparison. Unlike the "Johnny Come Lately, What Have You Done For Me Today?" analysis that the bashers have been doing.