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City of Akron Arena?


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  RowdyZip said:
That building is one block south of the proposed site on Main St. I watch them renovating every day as I park at the lot at Buchtel and Main. The proposed arena site is on the NORTH side of Buchtel, this is to the south of it.
from what I recall, the one plan actually called for the arena to sit in the area from E state to E Exchange, which includes this building.This news, in essence, kills the idea of the arena in that area. In fact, this really kills the idea of a new arena for the forseeable future. Theres nowhere else that would work that i can see.
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  UAzipsMan said:
  RowdyZip said:
That building is one block south of the proposed site on Main St. I watch them renovating every day as I park at the lot at Buchtel and Main. The proposed arena site is on the NORTH side of Buchtel, this is to the south of it.
from what I recall, the one plan actually called for the arena to sit in the area from E state to E Exchange, which includes this building.This news, in essence, kills the idea of the arena in that area. In fact, this really kills the idea of a new arena for the forseeable future. Theres nowhere else that would work that i can see.
that hasn't stopped us before ;)
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Well, I happened to walk through the JAR today and the supposed renovations still haven't started.As for the arena, there are plenty of other places to build. I consider all of UA's campus to be in the Downtown area. Why put an arena in the core of downtown on top of existing structures instead of more towards the fringes to help expand the economic area of downtown?

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North of Quaker Square across Mill Street on the corner of Mill and Summit could work. I believe UA owns that parking lot which is just a bit smaller than the old proposed area on Main Street. Right across the tracks is another good-sized area where a UA administration building sits, but I don't think it is being used in a major capacity any more. If you really wanted to, you could build right over top of the tracks and combine the two. One area can be the arena and the other can be a parking deck, connected by a walkway. You have the benefit of it being located right behind the renovated post office and other nice buildings on E. Market street and it's technically still on campus so no expensive purchasing of downtown property.You could also put one somewhere near Luigi's. That area seems to be rapidly developing with the apartment/veggie restaurant and new housing.

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  uakronkid said:
North of Quaker Square across Mill Street on the corner of Mill and Summit could work. I believe UA owns that parking lot which is just a bit smaller than the old proposed area on Main Street. Right across the tracks is another good-sized area where a UA administration building sits, but I don't think it is being used in a major capacity any more. If you really wanted to, you could build right over top of the tracks and combine the two. One area can be the arena and the other can be a parking deck, connected by a walkway. You have the benefit of it being located right behind the renovated post office and other nice buildings on E. Market street and it's technically still on campus so no expensive purchasing of downtown property.You could also put one somewhere near Luigi's. That area seems to be rapidly developing with the apartment/veggie restaurant and new housing.
i was looking at that exact same place. probably the next best place that isn't off-campus
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  UAzipsMan said:
  uakronkid said:
North of Quaker Square across Mill Street on the corner of Mill and Summit could work. I believe UA owns that parking lot which is just a bit smaller than the old proposed area on Main Street. Right across the tracks is another good-sized area where a UA administration building sits, but I don't think it is being used in a major capacity any more. If you really wanted to, you could build right over top of the tracks and combine the two. One area can be the arena and the other can be a parking deck, connected by a walkway. You have the benefit of it being located right behind the renovated post office and other nice buildings on E. Market street and it's technically still on campus so no expensive purchasing of downtown property.You could also put one somewhere near Luigi's. That area seems to be rapidly developing with the apartment/veggie restaurant and new housing.
i was looking at that exact same place. probably the next best place that isn't off-campus
I just don't know how much they use the admin building since they put up Simmons Hall.One other spot is the incredibly empty square of land just south of Perkins as soon as you get off Route 8.Arenaspots.jpgThe one you were looking at is in Blue. The one by Perkins in in Red. Both areas could use a little rejuvenation. The Perkins spot is just a huge empty grass field in downtown. It's an eyesore and I'm amazed that nobody has put anything at all there.
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  uakronkid said:
  UAzipsMan said:
  uakronkid said:
North of Quaker Square across Mill Street on the corner of Mill and Summit could work. I believe UA owns that parking lot which is just a bit smaller than the old proposed area on Main Street. Right across the tracks is another good-sized area where a UA administration building sits, but I don't think it is being used in a major capacity any more. If you really wanted to, you could build right over top of the tracks and combine the two. One area can be the arena and the other can be a parking deck, connected by a walkway. You have the benefit of it being located right behind the renovated post office and other nice buildings on E. Market street and it's technically still on campus so no expensive purchasing of downtown property.You could also put one somewhere near Luigi's. That area seems to be rapidly developing with the apartment/veggie restaurant and new housing.
i was looking at that exact same place. probably the next best place that isn't off-campus
I just don't know how much they use the admin building since they put up Simmons Hall.One other spot is the incredibly empty square of land just south of Perkins as soon as you get off Route 8.Arenaspots.jpgThe one you were looking at is in Blue. The one by Perkins in in Red. Both areas could use a little rejuvenation. The Perkins spot is just a huge empty grass field in downtown. It's an eyesore and I'm amazed that nobody has put anything at all there.
The city bought up all the old, decrepit houses in that area and demolished them a few years ago. More of their land bank for future development. Seems to be a pretty prime spot if the right developer comes along. Not sure if it is still zoned residential of if it has been changed.I think I'd favor putting it where Central Hower is.
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The Perkins St area was something I thought the University could use for further expansion. Primarily medical research. But the city had bought up all that land for Fred Martin Chevy, so the chances of that...who knows with the current state of GM whether Fred Marting will need to expand or not now.Part of the Mill St lot is promised to the city (part of the Quaker deal).The Central Hower lot will not be availabe anytime soon. As much as the APS needs money, they are still considering it as a possible site for a STEM high school. It is based off of how the STEM middle school does. If I ran the school board, East would have been closed and combined with North, a new school would have been built over the football field, baseball field, and track. Central would have been sold off to the University. East and Goodyear would have been put on the auction block for developers. Now you wiped a ton operations costs off your budget. Plus income of several million dollars for the property you sold. They are being stupid by keeping open schools that they closed for other programs. "Gee I don't know why we have to lay off more teachers" probably because you spent 3 times the salary of 40 teachers operating buildings you don't need.Just because the Kaiser building is being renovated doesn't mean the area between it and the Mayflower isn't usable. The fact is, there is plenty of land between those two areas to build an arena.

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b-mann: I agree with eveyrthing you said about APS. However, they cannot and could not have sold Central-Hower simply because it is being used a swing school while other high schools are be renovated. Don't expect that site ti be available for another 9-10 yrs.

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  Captain Kangaroo said:
Dambrot mentioned a downtown arena at this summer's golf outing. He said "I don't want to discuss it. We need to fill up the JAR. Next question."His reply led me to believe the downtown arena ain't no where near a reality. The improvements coming to the JAR will be in the locker rooms and the coaches offices. Other things, such as seating, will be improved too. But it will take time.I look for a new arena in 5-8 years. No sooner.
Rhodes has taken the job with UH. If UA wants to keep Dambrot, perhaps it should rethink the location of a new arena and put it on the UA campus where it belongs.Real universities construct their arenas on campus. Faux universities allow themselves to be contaminated by downtown politicians and build their arenas off campus as a sacrifice to the explosive volcano gods known as downtown politicians. Which is it going to be UA? On-campus stadium = 2 steps forward. Off-campus arena = 5 steps backward to the days of HILLTOP HIGH again. Which is it going to be UA? UA is already doing a wonderful job of promoting the city's and region's infrastructure. In fact it is saving Akron from itself through Info-Cision Stadium, University Park Alliance, saving Quaker Square and running a hotel for the city, the Biomedical Corridor, BioInnovation Institute of Akron, saving Hower House, providing the community with a performing arts hall complete with programming, taking part in the Inventors Hall of Fame School, helping to save the Civic Theater (managed it for several years so far free of cost), saving the Polsky Building and being the encouraging force behind private downtown development.An on-campus arena will serve the city just as well as a downtown arena plus provide the added perks of sprucing up the UA campus even more making it more desirable to student recruits in athletics and enrollment in general. A downtown arena will water down student enthusiasm and do virtually nothing for increased enrollment. It will make UA look like a cheesy community college. We need an on-campus arena for the same reasons we are getting an on-campus stadium. It's a no-brainer. Universities logically build on campus, especially a large people attracting facility like an arena. It further legitimizes the campus and allows non-campus people to get a good visual taste of the advantages of choosing UA for sports and in general.What's it going to be UA?
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  akronad said:
b-mann: I agree with eveyrthing you said about APS. However, they cannot and could not have sold Central-Hower simply because it is being used a swing school while other high schools are be renovated. Don't expect that site ti be available for another 9-10 yrs.
They don't really need it. They want it. Akron's school system is shrinking and only these incompetent stooges can justify 7 high schools in a city with declining students and population. Central-Hower should be sold to UA and East HS should merge with North and Ellet. That leaves East open as a swing high school. Akron ideally would have only four high schools and maybe then could compete for state championships. It would save money for the taxpayers as well. B)
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Again, I agree with your thinking. However, construction for East has already begun and will be ready for students in12 months. Ideally, East should have never been rebuilt. Unfortuantely, we ahve to get past that.I happened to drive past that Perkins st. sire this morning and that might just be a good location for a new arena. Finding an excellent location near the heart of the University is going to be tough.

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I'm pretty certain they could still fit an arena into the original spot. They would perhaps have to design it around Troppe's new property, but that may actually add some character. When I look @ the block across from Canal Park, I think they could/should leave the Mayflower standing (dorm space) as well as Troppe's building and the Main St./Exchange-corner building and still have more-than-sufficient room for a b-ball arena. I still think that is the optimal sight, with UA now having a presence on Main Street. That sight is within the campus footprint.If not there, then perhaps we could somehow encorporate a new arena in with the John S. Knight Convention Center?

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  Blue & Gold said:
I'm pretty certain they could still fit an arena into the original spot. They would perhaps have to design it around Troppe's new property, but that may actually add some character. When I look @ the block across from Canal Park, I think they could/should leave the Mayflower standing (dorm space) as well as Troppe's building and the Main St./Exchange-corner building and still have more-than-sufficient room for a b-ball arena. I still think that is the optimal sight, with UA now having a presence on Main Street. That sight is within the campus footprint.If not there, then perhaps we could somehow encorporate a new arena in with the John S. Knight Convention Center?
UA does not have real presence on Main Street. The site you mention as being in the foot print of campus is not in the foot print of the UA campus. Polsky building is just that, the old polsky building remuddled and doesn't come close to looking like a university facility and certainly not on campus. UA is not downtown. Nor should it be. The arena like the stadium needs to be a drawing card for the UA campus. Let downtown be downtown and UA be UA. Universities with integrity, class and prestige practice this philosophy even in so-called college towns/cities. Rhodes is going to a university that is inner city and yet still respects the autonomy and integrity of its campus. It's basketball arena (pavillion) is on the corner of Cullen Blvd and Holman Street, which is in the heart of the UH campus. Get a clue and advocate: BUILD THE UA ARENA ON CAMPUS AND NOT DOWNTOWN!
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  Jake said:
  Captain Kangaroo said:
Dambrot mentioned a downtown arena at this summer's golf outing. He said "I don't want to discuss it. We need to fill up the JAR. Next question."His reply led me to believe the downtown arena ain't no where near a reality. The improvements coming to the JAR will be in the locker rooms and the coaches offices. Other things, such as seating, will be improved too. But it will take time.I look for a new arena in 5-8 years. No sooner.
Rhodes has taken the job with UH. If UA wants to keep Dambrot, perhaps it should rethink the location of a new arena and put it on the UA campus where it belongs.Real universities construct their arenas on campus. Faux universities allow themselves to be contaminated by downtown politicians and build their arenas off campus as a sacrifice to the explosive volcano gods known as downtown politicians. Which is it going to be UA? On-campus stadium = 2 steps forward. Off-campus arena = 5 steps backward to the days of HILLTOP HIGH again. Which is it going to be UA? UA is already doing a wonderful job of promoting the city's and region's infrastructure. In fact it is saving Akron from itself through Info-Cision Stadium, University Park Alliance, saving Quaker Square and running a hotel for the city, the Biomedical Corridor, BioInnovation Institute of Akron, saving Hower House, providing the community with a performing arts hall complete with programming, taking part in the Inventors Hall of Fame School, helping to save the Civic Theater (managed it for several years so far free of cost), saving the Polsky Building and being the encouraging force behind private downtown development.An on-campus arena will serve the city just as well as a downtown arena plus provide the added perks of sprucing up the UA campus even more making it more desirable to student recruits in athletics and enrollment in general. A downtown arena will water down student enthusiasm and do virtually nothing for increased enrollment. It will make UA look like a cheesy community college. We need an on-campus arena for the same reasons we are getting an on-campus stadium. It's a no-brainer. Universities logically build on campus, especially a large people attracting facility like an arena. It further legitimizes the campus and allows non-campus people to get a good visual taste of the advantages of choosing UA for sports and in general.What's it going to be UA?
Bilbo, it's good to see you've joined the good side. B) I figured you'd eventually get tired of the Ohio.com trolls.
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  Can said:
  Jake said:
  Captain Kangaroo said:
Dambrot mentioned a downtown arena at this summer's golf outing. He said "I don't want to discuss it. We need to fill up the JAR. Next question."His reply led me to believe the downtown arena ain't no where near a reality. The improvements coming to the JAR will be in the locker rooms and the coaches offices. Other things, such as seating, will be improved too. But it will take time.I look for a new arena in 5-8 years. No sooner.
Rhodes has taken the job with UH. If UA wants to keep Dambrot, perhaps it should rethink the location of a new arena and put it on the UA campus where it belongs.Real universities construct their arenas on campus. Faux universities allow themselves to be contaminated by downtown politicians and build their arenas off campus as a sacrifice to the explosive volcano gods known as downtown politicians. Which is it going to be UA? On-campus stadium = 2 steps forward. Off-campus arena = 5 steps backward to the days of HILLTOP HIGH again. Which is it going to be UA? UA is already doing a wonderful job of promoting the city's and region's infrastructure. In fact it is saving Akron from itself through Info-Cision Stadium, University Park Alliance, saving Quaker Square and running a hotel for the city, the Biomedical Corridor, BioInnovation Institute of Akron, saving Hower House, providing the community with a performing arts hall complete with programming, taking part in the Inventors Hall of Fame School, helping to save the Civic Theater (managed it for several years so far free of cost), saving the Polsky Building and being the encouraging force behind private downtown development.An on-campus arena will serve the city just as well as a downtown arena plus provide the added perks of sprucing up the UA campus even more making it more desirable to student recruits in athletics and enrollment in general. A downtown arena will water down student enthusiasm and do virtually nothing for increased enrollment. It will make UA look like a cheesy community college. We need an on-campus arena for the same reasons we are getting an on-campus stadium. It's a no-brainer. Universities logically build on campus, especially a large people attracting facility like an arena. It further legitimizes the campus and allows non-campus people to get a good visual taste of the advantages of choosing UA for sports and in general.What's it going to be UA?
Bilbo, it's good to see you've joined the good side. B) I figured you'd eventually get tired of the Ohio.com trolls.
I thought his style seemed familiar. Welcome. :wave: I look forward to arguing with you in a civilized manner soon.
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  Jake said:
Rhodes has taken the job with UH. If UA wants to keep Dambrot, perhaps it should rethink the location of a new arena and put it on the UA campus where it belongs.Real universities construct their arenas on campus. Faux universities allow themselves to be contaminated by downtown politicians and build their arenas off campus as a sacrifice to the explosive volcano gods known as downtown politicians. Which is it going to be UA? On-campus stadium = 2 steps forward. Off-campus arena = 5 steps backward to the days of HILLTOP HIGH again. Which is it going to be UA? UA is already doing a wonderful job of promoting the city's and region's infrastructure. In fact it is saving Akron from itself through Info-Cision Stadium, University Park Alliance, saving Quaker Square and running a hotel for the city, the Biomedical Corridor, BioInnovation Institute of Akron, saving Hower House, providing the community with a performing arts hall complete with programming, taking part in the Inventors Hall of Fame School, helping to save the Civic Theater (managed it for several years so far free of cost), saving the Polsky Building and being the encouraging force behind private downtown development.An on-campus arena will serve the city just as well as a downtown arena plus provide the added perks of sprucing up the UA campus even more making it more desirable to student recruits in athletics and enrollment in general. A downtown arena will water down student enthusiasm and do virtually nothing for increased enrollment. It will make UA look like a cheesy community college. We need an on-campus arena for the same reasons we are getting an on-campus stadium. It's a no-brainer. Universities logically build on campus, especially a large people attracting facility like an arena. It further legitimizes the campus and allows non-campus people to get a good visual taste of the advantages of choosing UA for sports and in general.What's it going to be UA?
I agree... but at the same time, an arena in downtown Akron isn't as "off-campus" one might think. With the Polsky building and West Campus parking deck in downtown Akron along with a decent chunk of students living in the new 22 Exchange apartments, the University is as much a part of downtown as the city is. Heres my thinking with "off-campus": If I can walk to the arena from the middle of campus in less than 10 minutes, it's not Off-campus. Any more than that and UA would be doing the exact opposite that ICS is doing.Could we build a new arena in the footprint of the JAR? Sure... but space would be EXTREMELY limited. Aside from the space on E Mill & Summit St, there's no other location other than where the JAR is that the University could even build a suitable arena and still be within an easy walk from campus. However, I agree with Dambrot. Let's sell out the JAR before we think about a new arena.
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  UAzipsMan said:
  RowdyZip said:
That building is one block south of the proposed site on Main St. I watch them renovating every day as I park at the lot at Buchtel and Main. The proposed arena site is on the NORTH side of Buchtel, this is to the south of it.
from what I recall, the one plan actually called for the arena to sit in the area from E state to E Exchange, which includes this building.This news, in essence, kills the idea of the arena in that area. In fact, this really kills the idea of a new arena for the forseeable future. Theres nowhere else that would work that i can see.
Ther are plenty of possible locations for a new arena smack dab on The University of Akron campus. Afterall, that's where it should be anyway, if UA wants to be taken more seriously. Let's stop thinking "downtown" and start thinking "on-campus" UA already owns two fingers of land in the neighborhoods on the south side of East Exchange and they are in the process of owning more. They have plans to make an expansion of the campus there with more green space and tennis courts. This would be one viable option for the location of the arena. And, there are other locations on campus that could be used as well. I remember when people would say, "on-campus stadium? ...don't be silly, where will UA put an on-campus stadium? Let's get over the "we are not worthy" mentality and think like a real university should think. Put the arena on campus and leave the city out of the deal. Where there is a will, there is a way and UA can afford to handle the project on its own. UA needs to continue its autonomy while serving the entire community at the same time. Build it on campus and they will not only come, they will also enroll and increase the UA student population.
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  UAzipsMan said:
  Jake said:
Rhodes has taken the job with UH. If UA wants to keep Dambrot, perhaps it should rethink the location of a new arena and put it on the UA campus where it belongs.Real universities construct their arenas on campus. Faux universities allow themselves to be contaminated by downtown politicians and build their arenas off campus as a sacrifice to the explosive volcano gods known as downtown politicians. Which is it going to be UA? On-campus stadium = 2 steps forward. Off-campus arena = 5 steps backward to the days of HILLTOP HIGH again. Which is it going to be UA? UA is already doing a wonderful job of promoting the city's and region's infrastructure. In fact it is saving Akron from itself through Info-Cision Stadium, University Park Alliance, saving Quaker Square and running a hotel for the city, the Biomedical Corridor, BioInnovation Institute of Akron, saving Hower House, providing the community with a performing arts hall complete with programming, taking part in the Inventors Hall of Fame School, helping to save the Civic Theater (managed it for several years so far free of cost), saving the Polsky Building and being the encouraging force behind private downtown development.An on-campus arena will serve the city just as well as a downtown arena plus provide the added perks of sprucing up the UA campus even more making it more desirable to student recruits in athletics and enrollment in general. A downtown arena will water down student enthusiasm and do virtually nothing for increased enrollment. It will make UA look like a cheesy community college. We need an on-campus arena for the same reasons we are getting an on-campus stadium. It's a no-brainer. Universities logically build on campus, especially a large people attracting facility like an arena. It further legitimizes the campus and allows non-campus people to get a good visual taste of the advantages of choosing UA for sports and in general.What's it going to be UA?
I agree... but at the same time, an arena in downtown Akron isn't as "off-campus" one might think. With the Polsky building and West Campus parking deck in downtown Akron along with a decent chunk of students living in the new 22 Exchange apartments, the University is as much a part of downtown as the city is. Heres my thinking with "off-campus": If I can walk to the arena from the middle of campus in less than 10 minutes, it's not Off-campus. Any more than that and UA would be doing the exact opposite that ICS is doing.Could we build a new arena in the footprint of the JAR? Sure... but space would be EXTREMELY limited. Aside from the space on E Mill & Summit St, there's no other location other than where the JAR is that the University could even build a suitable arena and still be within an easy walk from campus. However, I agree with Dambrot. Let's sell out the JAR before we think about a new arena.
Downtown is not on campus. A refubished department store and parking deck do not a campus make. Pretend you are a recruit with your parents coming to view the UA campus. Everything looks great until you are paraded downtown. Do you realy think that area looks like part of the campus? The anser is no. Campus is what campus looks. That is exactly why UA enhanced its campus and built an on-campus stadium. Owning the Polsky building makes that area no more on campus than owning the Rubber Bowl makes that area on campus. being able to walk somewhere within 10 minutes from the middle of campus does not make one's destiny on campus. here is my thinking about "on-campus". If it doesn't look on campus, it's not. being on-campus as a tecnicality will not win recruits and acolades for UA. Like it or not UA is seriously thinking about a new arena as we type and it won't be long before they get more specific. There are plenty of areas on campus and areas that will soon be campus fit for an on-campus arena
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  UAzipsMan said:
  Jake said:
Rhodes has taken the job with UH. If UA wants to keep Dambrot, perhaps it should rethink the location of a new arena and put it on the UA campus where it belongs.Real universities construct their arenas on campus. Faux universities allow themselves to be contaminated by downtown politicians and build their arenas off campus as a sacrifice to the explosive volcano gods known as downtown politicians. Which is it going to be UA? On-campus stadium = 2 steps forward. Off-campus arena = 5 steps backward to the days of HILLTOP HIGH again. Which is it going to be UA? UA is already doing a wonderful job of promoting the city's and region's infrastructure. In fact it is saving Akron from itself through Info-Cision Stadium, University Park Alliance, saving Quaker Square and running a hotel for the city, the Biomedical Corridor, BioInnovation Institute of Akron, saving Hower House, providing the community with a performing arts hall complete with programming, taking part in the Inventors Hall of Fame School, helping to save the Civic Theater (managed it for several years so far free of cost), saving the Polsky Building and being the encouraging force behind private downtown development.An on-campus arena will serve the city just as well as a downtown arena plus provide the added perks of sprucing up the UA campus even more making it more desirable to student recruits in athletics and enrollment in general. A downtown arena will water down student enthusiasm and do virtually nothing for increased enrollment. It will make UA look like a cheesy community college. We need an on-campus arena for the same reasons we are getting an on-campus stadium. It's a no-brainer. Universities logically build on campus, especially a large people attracting facility like an arena. It further legitimizes the campus and allows non-campus people to get a good visual taste of the advantages of choosing UA for sports and in general.What's it going to be UA?
I agree... but at the same time, an arena in downtown Akron isn't as "off-campus" one might think. With the Polsky building and West Campus parking deck in downtown Akron along with a decent chunk of students living in the new 22 Exchange apartments, the University is as much a part of downtown as the city is. Heres my thinking with "off-campus": If I can walk to the arena from the middle of campus in less than 10 minutes, it's not Off-campus. Any more than that and UA would be doing the exact opposite that ICS is doing.Could we build a new arena in the footprint of the JAR? Sure... but space would be EXTREMELY limited. Aside from the space on E Mill & Summit St, there's no other location other than where the JAR is that the University could even build a suitable arena and still be within an easy walk from campus. However, I agree with Dambrot. Let's sell out the JAR before we think about a new arena.
I forgot to mention that 22 Exchange needs to be kept in perpective. When complete, it will house 200 - 300 students at most. Let's not forget the 3500 to 4000 students that will soon be living on the real UA campus in addition to the majority of UA students who commute. Let's get over the, "we're not worthy" mentality. We are a real university. Let's act like one and expect to have a true (not technical) on-campus stadium. Putting an arean in the heart of the UA campus will not be that tough.
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If UA can make a good business case to build a first class basketball arena near the center of the campus, who would not be for it?If they can't, then the next best option is to partner up on a multipurpose facility with excellent basketball sight lines in a prime location right on the edge of the campus that maintains the look and feel of the campus. But this would require a partner that makes a good business case that a multipurpose entertainment facility can be financially successful in downtown Akron immediately adjacent to the UA campus.In either case, the facility needs to be attractive, friendly and convenient for recruits, players and fans, both students and non-students.Anything less than one of the top two options would be increasingly disappointing, depending on decreasing quality of the facility and/or increasing distance from campus.

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