The Acme Zip Game

[Captain Kangaroo]

I didn’t grow up in the Akron area - I was born in Youngstown. Thus I was a relative late-comer to the “Acme Zip” hoopla in August 1984 when I toted my life’s possessions into Bulger Hall. While I missed Wallenda tight roping across the field, I did see the 30k crowds and game day festivities that pretty much embodied the start of fall, and football season in Summit county, pre-2000. Like locusts, the students and community came out and supported the Zips…once per year. Students snuck kegs of beer into the stadium. It was a hell of a party. Yes, once per year 30k really happened. I saw it. And in the games following the Acme Zip event, 3k (or less) happened. While some people point to the game’s erosion as a poster child for the bungling UA Athletic’s administrations of the 1980’s, 90’s and even early 2000’s, the Acme Zip game’s demise was hardly UA’s fault. And if you pine for the game’s return, at least in the form it embodied at its merciful conclusion, you really don’t know what you’re asking for.From 1900 through about 1987 Acme was the premiere grocery store in the area. And Acme would pay for big time game day entertainment. Companies like Finast, Apples and Giant Eagle were just then beginning to enter Acme’s territory and erode its market share. Fast forward to 2001. Acme’s investment level (in the Acme Zip game) started to drop significantly once Fred Albrecht stepped away from the day to day operations of Acme. The last Acme Zip game featured fireworks some two weeks after 9/11, which actually cost UA more than double the sponsorship payment. Tack on the game’s hospitality costs (hospitality for Acme and their guests exceeded $7,000) and UA was stuck with a deficit of $12,000 before Zac Derr ever kicked off!When Acme’s contract with UA expired, they were paying the Zips approximately $5,000 in cash towards the game. That’s it…one check for $5,000. For that, beyond $7k in hospitality, Acme mandated UA give them category exclusivity for grocery stores – meaning that UA could not engage any other stores for sponsorship. That’s a pretty sweet deal for $5,000!The final nail in the coffin of the Acme Zip tradition was Acme’s 2002 directive that the Acme Zip game be the Akron/Can't State football game every year. Get this -- they would give the $5k to Akron one year, and Can't State the next. Now, instead of $5,000/yr….we were down to $2,500/yr! And still, no other grocery stores would be permitted to sponsor UA athletics!Do you like the tradition of the Wagon Wheel? Acme wanted UA/Can't State to do away with it, replacing it with … the BRONZE BAG – a square, bronze grocery bag. If you dig through the bowels Buchtel Fieldhouse, somewhere between the leftover “Click it for Cricket’ clickers and “Frye for Heisman” signs you can still probably locate it. Note to UA officials – I will increase my donation to the Z-Fund by $150 if I can have this bronze piece of Zips memorabilia.Acme also slashed their media support by 50% heading into the 2001 game, which greatly affected the already heavily-discounted ticket sales. Acme also stipulated that 40% of the ticket revenue must go back to Acme to help “cover their investment.”Selling $1 tickets is not sports marketing. Running deep deficits in premier sponsorship categories is not sound business. And most of all, having a partner that takes 40% of the gate up front to cover their costs, and potentially makes money on the deal, is pretty much the sucker business deal of the century. The Albrecht’s are decent people and great benefactors of the community, but they wanted a sports marketing partnership with UA and Can't that was a flat-out bad business deal. Can't eventually signed on with Giant Eagle as well, as they could not walk away from dollars. When Giant Eagle signed the first three-year contract starting with the 2002-03 academic year, it was for a total of $165,000, NET, over three years. That’s more than the Acme Zip game had generated, net, in the previous 11 years combined!College sports is a business, and it takes real dollars to pay for the scholarships and all of the other expenses…in excess of $15 million dollars/year even at UA. That’s why $1 tickets are a thing of the past, and why we’ll likely continue to play a BCS school on the road @ $700k+ every football season for the foreseeable future. That income is critical.The Acme Zip Game was a great thing…in its day. But like a 59 year old stripper, it wasn’t a pretty sight at the end. Its time had past.

[ziptrumpet87]

WOW Talk about an eye opener! Thanks for filling us all in, CK! I knew there was a bronze grocery bag trophy in there somewhere.

[tbozeglav]

Its sad that the game had to come to an end, but considering the circumstances around the entire game, perhaps its demise worked out to be a blessing for the University. Yes, filling the stadium with 30k is really nice to do, but when UA can't come away with a profit and all other home games have attendances of nearly 1/6th of that number, it's just not worth it. Then take into consideration how they wanted to replace the wagon wheel with a stupid paper bag, and now you have an outrageous move by a business who has no interest in the tradition of a great rivalry and is only out to rip two universities off. I will much rather take consistent crowds without all the "hoopla"

[akronad]

I attended the Acme-Zip games from 1960 to its demise. Like the Rubber Bowl, an excellent thing at the time. However, time has caught up with both. The Acme-Zip game was great when we played in the Ohio Conference and later DII. Now, when we are playing with other D1 schools the game is not the same. I would guess that if we were still a DII program, this kind of thing would still work. Also, remember, when the Acme-Zip game was first started, the Unviersity was a city college and was supported locally. Unfotunately or fortunate;y, the times have changed. We as a community need to accept those changes and support the University in the new direction it is headed. If half of the people I know that have asked me about Infocision Stadium actually make it to just one game, then the Zips and the community will be succcessful.

[UA1987]

we’ll likely continue to play a BCS school on the road @ $700k+ every football season for the foreseeable future. That income is critical.

Quote from Eastern Michigan's head coach - MACREPORTONLINE.com; Around the MAC; Scheduling Model'Eastern Michigan head coach Jeff Genyk acknowledged during his weekly press conference Monday that he would have been surprised at the start of the season if he had been told that the Cardinals would be the first ranked opponent the Eagles would be facing this season but believes the Cardinals' scheduling model this season is both one that has benefited Ball State's surge in the rankings and is one that other MAC schools should try to emulate in the future. Any time that our conference administration or university administration can schedule to have a chance to go undefeated brings tremendous notoriety to the university and the whole conference, said Genyk in discussing Ball State's non-conference schedule. It's hard to put a dollar amount on playing the big guarantee game - going out and playing an Oklahoma. Granted, you make $600-700-800,000, but if you have a chance to go undefeated for the first seven games now you have a sold-out stadium and increased support from alumni. So how does that parallel from a financial standpoint? I think it's (the notoriety and the national ranking) great for the MAC and shows every institution that if you get it rolling a bit, amazing things can happen.'It seems the idea of playing a guarantee payday game (away only contract) is not everyone's idea of an ideal scheduling model. We should all wake up and realize the name of the game in college football scheduling is schedule to win not schedule to make money in order to fund non-revenue sports at the University. Yes, we need to play two OOC top 50 teams every year for fan interest, but only if they would play here at least once as part of the contract (won't play here, then, bye bye as home field is a great advantage)... We've been over this before in previous topics on this forum. Money will follow the wins, especially in Northeast Ohio. Winning tradition 1st, then money from the fans will follow, then recruiting rises... the program is elevated, and big revenue and big time games where we would have a very good chance of winning would then be a long term reality. We have the Info on it's way, I'm trying to see that we don't build our forward schedule like we are still playing in the Rubber Bowl.

[Captain Kangaroo]

1.) If Ball State would have played most other D1-A teams, they'd still be undefeated. They are a legit Top 20 team. THAT is what UA should strive for. Not an undefeated schedule based upon 12 cupcakes.2.) This is 2008 and the Zips haven't won more than 7 games in two decades. Scheduling based upon the hopes of an undefeated season is like planning your retirement based on lottery winnings.3.) EMU is a horrible, horrible program. It has been for a decade. Genyk is correct - EMU DOES need to play 12 terrible teams. They need to get some sort of a winning tradition back. UA's football program is in MUCH better shape. We don't need Hampton or Liberty on our schedule to pad our coach's record. 4.) The MAC East is the sorriest conference in D1 football. It is the easiest of all possible routs to a championship game and a bowl bid. To further dumb-down what is already one of the easiest D1 football schedules year-in-year-out is reaching for the lowest of the low-hanging fruit.5.) The Zips have been competitive with every "BCS" school we've played for several years now. We've won twice. And when those two "wins" were put on our schedule several years ago, they appeared to be blow-out losses in favor of the BCS team. There is no "guaranteed loss" for the Zips anymore. 6.) Ask Toledo what they'd trade for their win @ Michigan a couple weeks ago. Or their Penn State win. Would they trade a home game against Youngstown State for it? My friend went to Toledo -- he got 36 text messages within an hour of the Michigan win. Conversely - I received Zero after we beat EMU.7.) Today, we need $700,000. Bad. Maybe in 5 years we don't. But we do today.That's all I have to say on the topic. If you want to continue a discussion on scheduling, please start a new topic. This topic is reserved for the Acme Zip game.Thank you.

[g-mann17]

we’ll likely continue to play a BCS school on the road @ $700k+ every football season for the foreseeable future. That income is critical.

Quote from Eastern Michigan's head coach - MACREPORTONLINE.com; Around the MAC; Scheduling Model'Eastern Michigan head coach Jeff Genyk acknowledged during his weekly press conference Monday that he would have been surprised at the start of the season if he had been told that the Cardinals would be the first ranked opponent the Eagles would be facing this season but believes the Cardinals' scheduling model this season is both one that has benefited Ball State's surge in the rankings and is one that other MAC schools should try to emulate in the future. Any time that our conference administration or university administration can schedule to have a chance to go undefeated brings tremendous notoriety to the university and the whole conference, said Genyk in discussing Ball State's non-conference schedule. It's hard to put a dollar amount on playing the big guarantee game - going out and playing an Oklahoma. Granted, you make $600-700-800,000, but if you have a chance to go undefeated for the first seven games now you have a sold-out stadium and increased support from alumni. So how does that parallel from a financial standpoint? I think it's (the notoriety and the national ranking) great for the MAC and shows every institution that if you get it rolling a bit, amazing things can happen.'It seems the idea of playing a guarantee payday game (away only contract) is not everyone's idea of an ideal scheduling model. We should all wake up and realize the name of the game in college football scheduling is schedule to win not schedule to make money in order to fund non-revenue sports at the University. Yes, we need to play two OOC top 50 teams every year for fan interest, but only if they would play here at least once as part of the contract (won't play here, then, bye bye as home field is a great advantage)... We've been over this before in previous topics on this forum. Money will follow the wins, especially in Northeast Ohio. Winning tradition 1st, then money from the fans will follow, then recruiting rises... the program is elevated, and big revenue and big time games where we would have a very good chance of winning would then be a long term reality. We have the Info on it's way, I'm trying to see that we don't build our forward schedule like we are still playing in the Rubber Bowl.

I'm not trying to be too cynical with this but...Ask Toledo how going undefeated has worked out for them? They are a historic MAC success like Miami, but that is about it.Ask Marshal how being a ranked MAC team is paying out in the long run? They used it to move to a more "prestigious" conference where they have been nothing more then a failure.There are several factors, and several ways to get noticed. Ball State has benefitted from a good schedule and a lot of Top 25 turmoil. That and they have a number of NFL caliber athletes. That is what factors into the ranking. Whether it propels them or not? Who knows. It depends on the depth of the program, the chances of their coach sticking around (a lot of teams are looking for a coach). I would rather see wins but 6 sell out games of 31,000 times 20 dollars a ticket plus MAC championship money and bowl money is $4,720,000. While 6 sell out games, a MAC championship, and bowl money, plus a money game is $5,520,000.The point is, it's more money and similar notoriety. And until you can guarantee that we will win 12 in a row (and Ball State hasn't even accomplished that yet) it's not even beneficial.On a final note. Ball State being 12-0 and being in the MAC Championship and being number 20 or whatever they make it up to. Is not going to be anymore note worthy than Marshall, Toledo, or BGSU who has done it before them. Would I like to say that we have done that? Hell yes, but is it that big of deal on a national scale? Hell no. I will go out on a limb and say that Ball State won't finish undefeated though. So the point is moot.

[johnnyzip84]

I will go out on a limb and say that Ball State won't finish undefeated though. So the point is moot.

First of all, Cap'n, nice job on the Acme-Zip story. I believe we're clearly better off without it or some half-hearted attempt to revive it or something similar. Why would we discount ANYTHING or rely on gimmicks with our brand spanking new facility awaiting?Now I will go a little farther out on the limb regarding Ball St. IF NIU gets past BG's road warriors this weekend, the Huskies will not only ruin the Cards undefeated season (in Muncie no less), but THEY will win out and capture the MAC West crown in stunning fashion. Their defense is head and shoulders the best in this crazy league.

[ZippyRulz]

I attended the Acme-Zip games from 1960 to its demise. Like the Rubber Bowl, an excellent thing at the time. However, time has caught up with both. The Acme-Zip game was great when we played in the Ohio Conference and later DII. Now, when we are playing with other D1 schools the game is not the same. I would guess that if we were still a DII program, this kind of thing would still work. Also, remember, when the Acme-Zip game was first started, the Unviersity was a city college and was supported locally. Unfotunately or fortunate;y, the times have changed. We as a community need to accept those changes and support the University in the new direction it is headed. If half of the people I know that have asked me about Infocision Stadium actually make it to just one game, then the Zips and the community will be succcessful.

Good points. We need large crowds at each home game because of the university and team's success, not just because of a grocer (with all due appreciation for their support). Having one sellout because of a well-sponsored community event, followed by poor attendance at the other games is not a good model for the future. Ideally though, every game should be well promoted and offer some type of extras for the kids, wives, grandparents etc. that are not strictly football diehards. Every game day should be a true festival and now that it will be on campus they could open up some of the other facilities like the student union and rec center for families to take advantage of before or after the game. I'm trying to imagine morning tailgating for a 1pm soccer match, followed by more tailgating for a 6pm football kickoff...it will be Acme-Zip times 3 !

[UA1987]

That's all I have to say on the topic. If you want to continue a discussion on scheduling, please start a new topic. This topic is reserved for the Acme Zip game.Thank you.

So you can say something on a post and then you think you just end the discussion. I don't think so.Moderator entry:I do think so.

[ZipAlumn]

I attended many Acme-Zip games from the early 60's through the 70's. While I was saddened at the end of this tradition ... I really didn't miss them. For my money the entire promotional idea of the game had run it's course and lost it's appeal. I may be wrong but towards the end was the soccer match before the football game dropped? I know that I am not wrong is saying that in the later years this was no longer a family event, but an excuse for the kids to show up in groups and turn into hooligans. The last couple of games I attended unsupervised young kids bombarded those of us in the seats with cups of cokes or anythings else that came to hand. When they tossed those mini footballs into the stands that was an invitation to start a fight nt he stands. Mom and Dad no longer brought their family but gangs of kids showed up to run wild in the stands. At least that was the way I saw it and why I quit attending the Acme-Zip game even though I had season tickets to for rest of the home games.

[akronad]

There were 2 reasons why the soccer game was dropped from the Acme-Zip game amd both of those had to do with the Bowl. First, was artificial turf. The soccer ball bounced higher and and ball would never slow down like it does no a natural surface. Secondly, a football field is crowned. So with the combination of a crown field and a artificial surface, it became very difficult to play a game at the bowl.

[RootforRoo44]

I attended the Acme-Zip games from 1960 to its demise. Like the Rubber Bowl, an excellent thing at the time. However, time has caught up with both. The Acme-Zip game was great when we played in the Ohio Conference and later DII. Now, when we are playing with other D1 schools the game is not the same. I would guess that if we were still a DII program, this kind of thing would still work. Also, remember, when the Acme-Zip game was first started, the Unviersity was a city college and was supported locally. Unfotunately or fortunate;y, the times have changed. We as a community need to accept those changes and support the University in the new direction it is headed. If half of the people I know that have asked me about Infocision Stadium actually make it to just one game, then the Zips and the community will be succcessful.

Good points. We need large crowds at each home game because of the university and team's success, not just because of a grocer (with all due appreciation for their support). Having one sellout because of a well-sponsored community event, followed by poor attendance at the other games is not a good model for the future. Ideally though, every game should be well promoted and offer some type of extras for the kids, wives, grandparents etc. that are not strictly football diehards. Every game day should be a true festival and now that it will be on campus they could open up some of the other facilities like the student union and rec center for families to take advantage of before or after the game. I'm trying to imagine morning tailgating for a 1pm soccer match, followed by more tailgating for a 6pm football kickoff...it will be Acme-Zip times 3 !

Oh man, that statement has got me more excited about the stadium than anything yet so far.

[GP1]

1.) If Ball State would have played most other D1-A teams, they'd still be undefeated. They are a legit Top 20 team. THAT is what UA should strive for. Not an undefeated schedule based upon 12 cupcakes.

I'll take the bait. Here is the current Top 20 ranking. Who would Ball State beat in this list based upon the fact that their schedule is full of teams that are a combined 11-29 against DI-A teams? The two best teams are Akron and Navy. I would dare say that neither of these schools are in the Top 75.After watching them get beat 52-30 by an unmotivated Rutgers team in a bowl last year, I need more than just someone saying to me they are a Top 20 team to believe they are a Top 20 team. I'll buy BSU when they show they can beat a team with a pulse. In the mean time, BSU may be in the top half of college football, but my guess is they are closer to #60 than #20 or higher.One last thing Captain Kangaroo. I just learned on this board that you are indeed not an electrical engineer, but a sanitation engineer. Is it hard keeping up with Zips sports and monitoring a web page from the back of a garbage truck or have modern hydraulics trucks made it more easy? The things I learn on this board............

[johnnyzip84]

Hmmm........Youngstown?.......Sanitation Engineer?...........known associates such as Z-P?The good Capo.....errrrr..... I mean Cap'n need not worry about ME failing to fall in line from now on

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

I mean, really, is cleaning up peoples' poop really all that different from what Electrical Engineers do? GO ZIPS!SeeTeeZip

[MDZip]

Hmmm........Youngstown?.......Sanitation Engineer?...........known associates such as Z-P?The good Capo.....errrrr..... I mean Cap'n need not worry about ME failing to fall in line from now on

Could Tom Hagen possibly be the Captain's alter ego? (Address to send horse's head to to be supplied later ... )

[Captain Kangaroo]

So you can say something on a post and then you think you just end the discussion. I don't think so.

UA1987 - Here is my quote:"If you want to continue a discussion on scheduling, please start a new topic. This topic is reserved for the Acme Zip game."Pretty clear. I simply asked you to move the discussion and create a new thread.Since you elected to not start a new topic, but to divert this thread, and because you seem to like attacking me, your post was deleted. This year I personally paid $400.00 in 2008 to upgrade this board and keep it running smoothly. I did so to promote discussion regarding Zips Athletics, and I'm happy to do it. I did not do it to give people a forum to toss around 3rd grade-level insults. Other boards may encourage that stuff, but not this one. If that's a tough rule for anyone to follow, those people are encouraged to participate elsewhere.Thanks,CK

[Captain Kangaroo]

1.) If Ball State would have played most other D1-A teams, they'd still be undefeated. They are a legit Top 20 team. THAT is what UA should strive for. Not an undefeated schedule based upon 12 cupcakes.

I'll take the bait. Here is the current Top 20 ranking. Who would Ball State beat in this list based upon the fact that their schedule is full of teams that are a combined 11-29 against DI-A teams? The two best teams are Akron and Navy. I would dare say that neither of these schools are in the Top 75.After watching them get beat 52-30 by an unmotivated Rutgers team in a bowl last year, I need more than just someone saying to me they are a Top 20 team to believe they are a Top 20 team. I'll buy BSU when they show they can beat a team with a pulse. In the mean time, BSU may be in the top half of college football, but my guess is they are closer to #60 than #20 or higher.One last thing Captain Kangaroo. I just learned on this board that you are indeed not an electrical engineer, but a sanitation engineer. Is it hard keeping up with Zips sports and monitoring a web page from the back of a garbage truck or have modern hydraulics trucks made it more easy? The things I learn on this board............

GP1:Who would Ball State beat in the Top 20?Complete Standings AP Top 25 1. Texas (65) BSU loss 2. Alabama BSU loss 3. Penn State 8-0 BSU loss 4. Oklahoma 6-1 BSU loss 5. Florida 5-1 BSU loss 6. USC 5-1 BSU loss 7. Oklahoma State 7-0 Competitive loss 8. Texas Tech 7-0 Competitive loss 9. Georgia 6-1 Competitive loss 10. Ohio State 7-1 Competitive loss 11. LSU 5-1 Loss 12. Utah 8-0 Toss up13. Boise State 6-0 Toss up14. South Florida 6-1 Toss up 15. TCU 7-1 Toss up16. Missouri 5-2 Loss17. Pittsburgh 5-1 Win 18. Brigham Young 6-1 Toss up 19. Kansas 5-2 Win20. Ball State 7-0 Tie 21. Georgia Tech 6-1 Win22. Tulsa 7-0 Toss up 23. Boston College 5-1 Win24. Florida State 5-1 Win 25. Minnesota 6-1 WinThis year's Ball State team is much better than last year's edition. They aren't Top 10. Probably not Top 15. But they can play with anyone in the 15-25 range. BSU's schedule is weak, but they're manhandling everyone. Similar to Penn State.BSU goes 12-0 in regular season play. I already owe you a 6 of Yuengling...double or nothing?

[UA1987]

So you can say something on a post and then you think you just end the discussion. I don't think so.

Since you elected to not start a new topic, but to divert this thread, and because you seem to like attacking me, your post was deleted.

Censorship to promote your ego agenda, not for me. I have done all I can here, time to move on.

[GP1]

1.) If Ball State would have played most other D1-A teams, they'd still be undefeated. They are a legit Top 20 team. THAT is what UA should strive for. Not an undefeated schedule based upon 12 cupcakes.

I'll take the bait. Here is the current Top 20 ranking. Who would Ball State beat in this list based upon the fact that their schedule is full of teams that are a combined 11-29 against DI-A teams? The two best teams are Akron and Navy. I would dare say that neither of these schools are in the Top 75.After watching them get beat 52-30 by an unmotivated Rutgers team in a bowl last year, I need more than just someone saying to me they are a Top 20 team to believe they are a Top 20 team. I'll buy BSU when they show they can beat a team with a pulse. In the mean time, BSU may be in the top half of college football, but my guess is they are closer to #60 than #20 or higher.One last thing Captain Kangaroo. I just learned on this board that you are indeed not an electrical engineer, but a sanitation engineer. Is it hard keeping up with Zips sports and monitoring a web page from the back of a garbage truck or have modern hydraulics trucks made it more easy? The things I learn on this board............

GP1:Who would Ball State beat in the Top 20?Complete Standings AP Top 25 1. Texas (65) BSU loss 2. Alabama BSU loss 3. Penn State 8-0 BSU loss 4. Oklahoma 6-1 BSU loss 5. Florida 5-1 BSU loss 6. USC 5-1 BSU loss 7. Oklahoma State 7-0 Competitive loss 8. Texas Tech 7-0 Competitive loss 9. Georgia 6-1 Competitive loss 10. Ohio State 7-1 Competitive loss 11. LSU 5-1 Loss 12. Utah 8-0 Toss up13. Boise State 6-0 Toss up14. South Florida 6-1 Toss up 15. TCU 7-1 Toss up16. Missouri 5-2 Loss17. Pittsburgh 5-1 Win 18. Brigham Young 6-1 Toss up 19. Kansas 5-2 Win20. Ball State 7-0 Tie 21. Georgia Tech 6-1 Win22. Tulsa 7-0 Toss up 23. Boston College 5-1 Win24. Florida State 5-1 Win 25. Minnesota 6-1 WinThis year's Ball State team is much better than last year's edition. They aren't Top 10. Probably not Top 15. But they can play with anyone in the 15-25 range. BSU's schedule is weak, but they're manhandling everyone. Similar to Penn State.BSU goes 12-0 in regular season play. I already owe you a 6 of Yuengling...double or nothing?

When they beat someone good, I'll believe like you believe. Until then, they would not beat a team in the Top 20. Double or nothing it is......

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

So you can say something on a post and then you think you just end the discussion. I don't think so.

UA1987 - Here is my quote:"If you want to continue a discussion on scheduling, please start a new topic. This topic is reserved for the Acme Zip game."Pretty clear. I simply asked you to move the discussion and create a new thread.Since you elected to not start a new topic, but to divert this thread, and because you seem to like attacking me, your post was deleted. This year I personally paid $400.00 in 2008 to upgrade this board and keep it running smoothly. I did so to promote discussion regarding Zips Athletics, and I'm happy to do it. I did not do it to give people a forum to toss around 3rd grade-level insults. Other boards may encourage that stuff, but not this one. If that's a tough rule for anyone to follow, those people are encouraged to participate elsewhere.Thanks,CK

Cap'n, all joking aside, it's clear to most here that you put a lot of effort into these boards, and we appreciate having this place to get together. We all owe you a beer, and then some.GO ZIPS!SeeTeeZip

[Lee Adams]

how long has it taken Brady Hoke to dig arguably the worst MAC program out of the toilet? how long did it take Kelly to get Central to being one of the best in the MAC..my point?...duh

[johnnyzip84]

how long has it taken Brady Hoke to dig arguably the worst MAC program out of the toilet? how long did it take Kelly to get Central to being one of the best in the MAC..my point?...duh

I made this point in an earlier thread, but I copied and pasted here (below) for convenience.As you can see, only 4 (MAC) teams were ABOVE 0.500 over that period (JD's tenure). Here's another interesting note. It's Ball St.'s records under Brady Hoke.2003 4-82004 2-92005 4-72006 5-72007 7-62008 7-0If you look at the 1st five years, he's well under 0.500. What would have happened if Ball St. decided to give up on him after last season? I think if JD can finish 6-6 this year (much like Brady's 7-6 last year), he has to be given a chance to open the Info. Kelly's job at CMU was a pretty quick fix. I think he only has one losing season before getting the Chips going. I do agree with one thing you said though......DUH is just about right!

[GP1]

how long has it taken Brady Hoke to dig arguably the worst MAC program out of the toilet? how long did it take Kelly to get Central to being one of the best in the MAC..my point?...duh

If you weren't caught up in your JD is the problem all the time rant, you would notice that the only difference between these two programs and the Zips is the QB. Kelly is a genious because he got a good QB who continues to be good even though he is no longer there. If Kelly was the reason CMU was good, wouldn't his leaving make them bad now. The guy at Ball State gets one good QB and he is a genious....my point?.....duh.In two years, Kelly won the MAC with his QB. In two years, JD won the MAC with Getsy. The guy at Ball State hasn't won anything yet with Davis. You're really not as smart as you think Lee. Leave the thinking to those who are not simple public servants. The reason everyone has tuned you out is you say nothing original.