Dave in Green

Look, if Tree is found guilty of the worst, we will be unanimous in wanting to show him the door. If after a thorough investigation things turn out to be not as bad as initial reports make it look, there may be some disagreement on the best way to deal with it. But the best way to deal with it right now is for everyone to avoid rushing to conclusions based on imagined assumptions in the absence of all the facts. Let's all support Tree's right to a fair hearing and hope for the best for all parties involved.

Calm down, akronzips71. The police report clearly states "Investigation Pending." Whether or not police file charges after their investigation is completed, a violation of the student conduct code may still have been committed. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. But this appears to be a serious charge not to be taken lightly. I expect a thorough investigation by both the police and UA, with both parties and witnesses given opportunities to present their sides. We have so little actual information available to us that none of us can come to any intelligent conclusions. Speculation is counterproductive when it just ends up with two sides each trying to throw the worst possible scenario at the other.

Everyone be sure to take a look at the number of guests reading this thread. Many could be media or fans of other schools looking for dirt. Everything that every Zips fan says here is a reflection on Zips fans and UA in general. If anyone has anything stupid to say, go post it on a Can't forum.

Great. We need more people on this forum who really know basketball. I welcome any insight you can add to this forum. I agree with you that Pat has good agility for a 6-11 player, and I've said so on this forum in the past. He proved this in his senior year of HS when he went from an unknown backup to an all-star who received offers from several high majors and was signed by West Virginia. He had a 2011 RSCI ranking out of HS of #137 in the country, just behind #133 Spencer Dinwiddie who is already playing in the NBA after a short college career. NBA scouts do pay attention to 6-11 players who are ranked among the top centers in the country out of HS. Pat had a choice of where to go when he elected to leave WVU and Coach Huggins to be closer to his legally blind father in NEO. Certainly he must have done his homework and had good reason for selecting UA and Coach Dambrot over other options in this general area. For example, he could have chosen to go to Cleveland State and be coached by Gary Waters. One of our regular forum members had a chance to ask Coach Huggins how he thought Pat would do at UA. Coach Huggins responded that he thought Pat would "do OK," but didn't think he would do great because he was unimpressed with Pat's work ethic. So when trying to blame Coach Dambrot for Pat's lack of development, it should be kept in mind that coaches can't develop players who don't put in the extra work necessary to develop their games from OK to great.

These types of incidents seem to run in streaks, similar to injuries. I remember some seasons ago Hilltopper and I were talking about how fortunate the Zips were to be so relatively injury-free. Then we ran into a period where a number of players were either slowed or on the sidelines with a variety of injuries and minor surgeries. The odds eventually catch up with you. For the most part the players who've gotten into trouble are the ones you'd guess would be most at risk. We've discussed in the past the advantages and disadvantages of having intense, emotional players who are motivated to elevate their games and make spectacular plays on the court. Unfortunately that's the type of personality that's also capable of taking things too far, crossing a line and doing something stupid that violates rules and laws. Looking at the remaining roster, the potential for emotional blowups and bad judgment appears to be less than it has been the last few years. I especially like the cool, calm efficiency with which Noah runs the team and hope it's a stabilizing influence for all the players. Going forward this team should be more like traditional Coach Dambrot teams with players more under control both on and off the court.

Of course everyone is concerned about the number of incidents over the last few years. How UA has dealt with the incidents is a separate issue. There have been no stories about how UA has covered up student-athlete incidents or let players off with a slap on the wrist because UA deals with these situations firmly and appropriately when they occur.

Dre22Era, I've been known to misspell on occasion. But the important point here is that we read almost daily about college athletes committing all manner of mayhem and getting away with a slap on the wrist, yet we see Zips players consistently being hammered for similar or lesser offenses. I've seen no evidence that UA has low standards in that regard.

It's always good to have another family member/close friend of a Zips player on the forums. Welcome to ZN.o.

I agree that "disciplining are players" is a good example of poor APR & GSR.

I just posted a link in OT to the most recent ESPN story about how transgressions by FSU football players are handled. Here's a link to the original New York Times story, which is even more detailed. Be sure to read the whole story, including the part about how the Tallahassee Police Department's public online database didn't show records of a hit-and-run by an FSU player because of a "technical glitch." Fortunately we don't see coverups like this at UA.

ABJ link

Rather than dwelling on the loss of Tree, I think it's better to be like the coaching staff and players who are now focused on how to best cover for his loss. The most obvious problem is finding a way to compensate for the loss of all the rebounds Tree could be relied on to snag. I don't even know the answer to the question of who's the second best rebounder on the team. I suppose the most likely candidate is Big Dog, so hopefully he returns quickly. Pat is just an average rebounder. Kwan finally showed a little promise in the last game. But the rest of the players have pretty much deferred to Tree to snag rebounds, and now they all have to refocus and understand they no longer have that rebounding crutch to lean on. Offensively, Tree was the team's leading scorer, which has caused defenses to double- and triple-team him. With Tree out of the lineup, will someone else step up their shooting game and become the new focus of opposing defenses, or will all the players step up and have such balanced scoring that defenses can't focus on any one Zips player? Maybe the most important question is how this will affect the Zips team chemistry. Going from a team with a clear #1 star to a team of many near equals is a big change. Even though Noah is a true freshman, he's essentially the team's QB by virtue of playing the point. His maturity and confidence beyond his years may give him the ability to step up and be the kind of leader he was on a loaded HS team.

UA made a rare Sunday news release.

This is a really good point, and something I think a lot of us are concerned about. Last season the Zips had the one-two punch of Tree and Q. It was hoped for that when Tree was double- and triple-teamed that he'd kick the ball out and Q would end up making the defense pay. Unfortunately, that didn't happen often enough. This season Tree is the clear #1 for the Zips, with Jake seen by many as the closest to a #2. The hope is that Tree and the coaching staff learned enough last season to find a solution this season. Since I missed seeing last night's game, I can only go by the stats. The box score shows that Tree had 2 turnovers and 3 assists. It didn't strike me that 2 turnovers was a terrible number for a team's #1 offensive threat who handles the ball a lot in the paint. So I went back and checked last season's stats and found that Tree on the season averaged 2.5 turnovers and 1.9 assists per game. That means that his performance in those categories against UMBC was a little above average compared with last season. Digging a little deeper, I decided to compare that against the power forward who beat out Tree for MAC POY, Javon McCrea. Since they both played the same position and both handled the ball a lot in the paint on offense, I thought McCrea's turnover to assist ratio would make a fair comparison. In his junior season, McCrea averaged 2.9 turnovers and 2.0 assists per game, slightly worse on turnovers and slightly better on assists than Tree's junior season. In his senior season, when he won MAC POY, McCrea improved his turnover average to 2.5 per game and his assists to 2.2. So I'd say if Tree can keep his turnover per game average close to 2 that it would be hard to criticize his performance. Hopefully as the season goes on and he becomes more familiar with all of his teammates, they'll develop the chemistry to make the defense pay when they double- and triple-team him.

The enthusiasm from Skip, JZ84 and others is nice to see. The way the Zips are playing as a team so early in the season with inexperienced players, they deserve it. One thing I'd been concerned about was the ability of the true freshmen to play long minutes. I think that Noah is exceeding most everyone's performance expectations, including energy and endurance. He played 31 minutes in the exhibition game, and then 30 minutes against UMBC -- most of anyone on the team including Tree (28 minutes). While both Antino and Nyles can handle backup PG minutes, the key to this season may be having Noah running the point for 30+ minutes per game. So far he appears to be up to the challenge. The back-to-back games in Charleston will be the next test. BJ (8 minutes) and Aaron (4 minutes) certainly didn't get a lot of PT. In part this may be due to the unexpectedly solid performance from Kwan, who had the third most PT (26 minutes). One thing to consider about BJ is that he's the consummate team player who often defers to his teammates instead of trying to be a star. When he transferred in his senior year of HS, the team he went to had five returning starters. The HS coach recognized BJ's talent, but didn't want to break up his starting five. He met with BJ to discuss, and BJ volunteered that he would have no problem being the sixth man, and the team went on to win the state championship. I expect BJ to do the same with the Zips. He will slowly and methodically work himself into the role where the Zips most need him. Watch him closely and you'll likely see him doing a lot of things that don't necessarily show up in the stats, similar to Jake. BJ took only one shot last night, but it was a drive to the basket for a layup. The Zips have lots of 3-point shooters and really need someone who can consistently drive the lane and finish at the rim, as Skip previously pointed out. It's interesting to add up the Zips minutes played by class, noting that Big Dog (sophomore) was the only one who didn't play: 45 = seniors (Tree, Deji, Nyles) 57 = juniors (Pat, Jake, Reggie) 26 = sophomore (Kwan) 55 = freshmen (Noah, Antino, BJ, Aaron)

I hate to further burst your bubble after the Steelers have already done so by falling behind the Browns. But the NFL is not always relevant to what works in college football. That stupid play works pretty well for Oregon and other college teams that have the personnel and coaching expertise to properly execute it. We'd all be ecstatic if the Zips ran the Ducks' plays and got similar results.

One thing we got sensitized to last season was the poor team assist to turnover ratio. The Zips averaged just 11 assists per game last season to 13 turnovers. In the first game last season against Coastal Carolina, the Zips had 10 assists and 17 turnovers. Against UMBC tonight the Zips had 17 assists and 12 turnovers. So the impression of those who attended Zips practices this year and thought the players showed better team chemistry than last season so far appears to be pretty accurate. My concerns about having two true freshmen at PG are starting to fade a little. The USC game will give us a better idea of how well this season's team can share and protect the ball.

Zips run the lead up to 30 points and then coast to a 17-point win, 74-57. Just looking at the raw stats, the most positive sign to me is that the two true freshman PGs in their first D-I college game combined for 6 steals and 7 assists with just 4 turnovers. Noah had a good shooting night while Antino missed a lot. Rounding out the freshmen, Aaron and BJ played minor roles with neither lighting things up. On the sophomore side, Kwan had another solid game with 9 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists and 4 blocks while backing up Pat, who fouled out. Jake and Reggie took 10 shots (all 3-pointers) and made 6. Tree got his usual double-double (10 points, 13 rebounds), but continues to struggle at the free throw line (2-6). He's now a frighteningly bad 4-16 for the season. Looking foward to hearing from those who saw the game.

Sorry I had to miss this game due to a family obligation. Just got home and was shocked to see no thread yet started on the first real game of the season. Zips up by 25 points with 9 minutes left in the game.

And yet another FSU coverup: Report: FSU players in hit-and-run

Thanks for sharing that primer, GP1. Assuming you have all the right players with the physical skills who are properly coached to do it right, it all comes down to the QB making the proper bubble zone read and then everyone properly executing. The Zips are lacking in one or more elements of the required chain -- player abilities, coaching, QB able to consistently make the proper read and execution. I suspect it's probably at least some of each.

What I really find is that quality whole foods taste good without having to load them up with spices as they do with processed junk foods, and putting a lot of spice on crap doesn't turn it into good food.

Lee, I really appreciate reading your calm, reasoned critiques. Keep them coming.

I'm sorry to have to admit that I missed this in reading the box score. Not only did Kwan have the second most rebounds to Tree of any Zips player, he did it in just 13 minutes on the floor. That means Kwan had more rebounds per minute played than any Zips player including Tree. That was an impressive performance as the backup center to Pat with Big Dog still recuperating from his broken wrist. I think that Kwan will have a major impact on the team's performance, if not this season certainly next season and beyond.

You need to get rid of the shills who post here about Zips basketball practices and assign more qualified reporters.