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After reading this thread, I'm beating my head against the wall too.....thinking about how we let two guys be at the forefront of our football program for several years who have done nothing more than coach at the D-II level ever since. That's all the affirmation I need.

I thought the original post was funny also. But the responses have me

The PD article says he's a senior. The 6-3 senior completed 28 of 44 passes for 469 yards and three touchdowns, and had 84 yards rushing with two TDs rushing. Let's hope SMU and Hawaii don't find him first. Nope. He's only a Junior.

Wow. How can this offense grow when an already-inexperienced group is missing so many pieces?

I should have beat you to this one, but didn't know that anyone was paying attention to this kid's numbers up at Mentor. I hung out with Dave (the father) quite a bit when he was at school at Akron. And I have an older brother who is still good friends with him today. So obviously I took a great interest in this story. Not only is Dave a UA alum, but he was a standout QB himself at Perry High School. I like your assessment of his Intramural ability. A lot of people were trying to convince him to try to walk on to the Akron roster. The next time I see Dave, I plan to try to get a guage of where his son's interest are at, but I am already being told that he is a solid kid besides his ability to play football. But, putting up those kinds of numbers at a big high schools would seem to put us way out of consideration, despite the UA connection with his father.

In more ways than one! But, if he is allowed to coach in the NCAA again, you know that some school out there, with absolutely no regard for how they get things done, will give him a shot. I really thought it was funny yesterday when OSWho announced more player suspensions (including more time for other violations from 2 of the SAME GUYS involved in Tattoo Gate) that they convenientlly place blamed on Tressel. If anyone can damage Tressel right out of any future employment, it's those guys in his old athletic dept., who will likely slam him every chance they get in an attempt to save their own hides.

Just think, a few short years ago, anyone except maybe the top few teams in the SunBelt were beatable. And none of them were world beaters. Today, we're a 20 point underdog at HOME to a Sun Belt team that may not even be the best team in the conference. The GREAT news. Saturday is looking to be a fantastic day to sit outside all day, drink and eat, and watch a football game.

Why is that a shocker? VMI (terrible 1-AA team) running backs averaged 5 yard/carry against us. Ohio State's 4th and 5th stringers were pushing 100 yards against the Zips. Temple and Cincinnati's RB's were in sweat pants in the second half of our games. Our run defense is terrible. I'm not shocked at all that people are running all over us. That pattern has been repeating itself for years. I just think the problem becomes even more alarming when it comes from one of the worst teams in the league while using their #3 running back. Unfortunately, the ability to run-tackle can't correct itself overnight. The " we need to get better at it" speech from the coach won't solve anything until we get some guys in here that can tackle.

I know this has come up often. And I have never coached football, so I am no expert here. But, isn't a pro style offense really dependent upon beating defenses straight up, with one on one matchups? If so, we don't have the horses to do that, and may not have them for several more years, IF we start recruiting some studs, which isn't likely. Oh Boy.

The recruitment of Chisholm last year has given me a glint of hope. Unfortunately, one outstanding player per class isn't going to cut it. I hope you're right about Chisholm. He's a guy who could possibly be a difference maker. Wagner is already one of those kinds of players. But here's the problem, as you point out. A couple of guys like that isn't enough. What do you need to be successful? Maybe a minimum of 6-8 guys like that? Maybe 10 or more? It's obvious that we are lacking talent. My fear is that, even if RI can get that kind of talent in the coming years, how long will it take before we have enough to be competitive? It's simply not looking like it's possible that it can happen soon enough to make me happy. The only hope we have right now is that the core players are young. But, we still need at least a handful of those guys to emerge as difference makers if we have any hope of winning even a fair amount of games in the next couple of years.

Exactly. Although we're all frustrated, and want to vent to our fellow fans, we are likely wasting our time with discussions about his dismissal. I'm guessing that we could probably put that part of the discussion on hold until at least the end of the 2012 season. STRONGLY DISAGREE. We need to keep this on the front burner putting a lot of heat on Porenza and Wistrcill. Complaciancy is our worst enemy. The message needs to be loud and often. Tom Wistrcill needs to feel the heat. So long as his job is secure he wont act. This must be fixed immediately if not sooner. Kick Ianello to the curb. GoZips, I know. I know. Every great rebellious movement started with just a few people. Even if there is enough fan outcry for his firing, what are the chances TW gives up on his own decision that quickly? And to a much, much greater extent, as UAzipsMan suggests, what are the chances that the board would support his decision, and pay out a million dollars of public money to complete his contract while hiring another coach at a similar salary? It's understandable that any Zips fan would have reasons to support his immediate dismissal. But, what are the chances right now that a couple dozen of us would persuade any action? It might have a minimal impact in a couple of years, but the likelihood of TW and the board coming together on this kind of action anytime soon is pretty remote.

Exactly. Although we're all frustrated, and want to vent to our fellow fans, we are likely wasting our time with discussions about his dismissal. I'm guessing that we could probably put that part of the discussion on hold until at least the end of the 2012 season.

I couldn't ignore this fact while reading the game story in the paper yesterday, and can't believe nobody else caught this....... If the information is correct, it looks like the RB that was running all over us was their THIRD STRING running back. Their first 2 guys were out. OUCH I've thought that we've been a very poor tackling team for several years, but if EMU has a 3rd string RB that can pile up those kind of numbers, it might be a pretty bad sign for the kind of point totals we are going to need to pile up in order to win any more games this year. And whenever someone is running like that against you, it also limits your possessions, with an offense that's clearly struggling to make plays consistently enough to sustain drives.

Good point. I do recall someone implying that maybe schools choose which allowable method they want to use. No they don't. They chose the one that allows their numbers to be the highest, and I can't think that any method comes out higher than tickets sold. That goes for football, soccer, or basketball.

I haven't been a TW or RI "basher", but I disagree that TWs body of work somehow paints a success story despite a deteriorating football program. Football is the most high profile sport at most schools, and it's hurting how we're viewed as a college sports prgram, tremendously. In soccer, he simply retained a coach in a program that was already a national power long before he got here. In basketball, we're probably OK, no matter who is AD, as long as Keith sticks around. But, I sure hope you're right about the football ship turning around.

Bobby, First, I want to again tell you that I commend you for your avid suport of our soccer program. But, regardless of what you said in one of your previous comments about getting very few "no shows" in soccer, I want to share both my observations, and some things that I know to be true. We're you at both the Cleveland State (5,300 tickets "sold") and Ohio State (5,800 tickets "sold") soccer games? I was at both games. The first game was in perfect weather. The second one was cooler and rainy. At the first game, I couldn't move while trying to find a place to stand in the East corners. At the 2nd game, I had plenty of room to move around and found plenty of room to sit in those areas at breaks. So, why was the "announced" attendance higher in the second game? Because we surely counted tickets "sold", same as we do with football. I, alone, personally have knowledge of more than a dozen tickets that weren't used on Wednesday night. One friend could not use one of his two reserved tickets because his spouse had a work obligation. Another friend had a decent block of tickets, and could not give most of them away, despite sending out e-mails to everyone he knows on Monday and Tuesday. My neighbor has 2 season GA tickets, and did not go because of the threat of rain. And I had purchased 4 tickets, and only used 2 of them. There's plenty of no-shows that do not subtract from the attendance that can be announced, in both sports. Sure, this is certainly a much more obvious problem in football, partially because you are dealing with a much higher amount of ticket sales, and partially because the problem appears to be bigger in that sport. But, to point out that soccer has few no-shows would not be true, especially as the weather continues to deteriorate. I think I mentioned before that I agree with you but think that soccer probably gets 90% or more of tickets sold to be used while football right now is probably less than 45%. I've been to every men's soccer game this year. I honestly think the OSU game was a lot more crowded than the first game. I've never seen the grass section as packed as it was. I took videos of the crowd for both games and can upload them if you want to compare them. The fact that this topic is being debated so much is a sign that the University has a poor way of calculating attendance. It would be much easier if they went by actual attendance and there would be no debate here. If they have to come up with a clever but legit way to increase the number to save face, then I will look the other way. You previously said, "at least 96%" in this thread, and I was trying not to call you out on that. But, I think you are at least getting closer to reality now. Your new 90% estimate would put Wednesday night at around 500-600 no shows, which seems like a fair estimate, based on my observations, and the amount of unused tickets that existed among people I know. That will probably increase as the weather continues to deteriorate, and the local schools are no longer on our soccer schedule. Which also makes it so sad to think that the football issue with no shows will likely increase as well. How embarrasing.

Bobby, First, I want to again tell you that I commend you for your avid suport of our soccer program. But, regardless of what you said in one of your previous comments about getting very few "no shows" in soccer, I want to share both my observations, and some things that I know to be true. We're you at both the Cleveland State (5,300 tickets "sold") and Ohio State (5,800 tickets "sold") soccer games? I was at both games. The first game was in perfect weather. The second one was cooler and rainy. At the first game, I couldn't move while trying to find a place to stand in the East corners. At the 2nd game, I had plenty of room to move around and found plenty of room to sit in those areas at breaks. So, why was the "announced" attendance higher in the second game? Because we surely counted tickets "sold", same as we do with football. I, alone, personally have knowledge of more than a dozen tickets that weren't used on Wednesday night. One friend could not use one of his two reserved tickets because his spouse had a work obligation. Another friend had a decent block of tickets, and could not give most of them away, despite sending out e-mails to everyone he knows on Monday and Tuesday. My neighbor has 2 season GA tickets, and did not go because of the threat of rain. And I had purchased 4 tickets, and only used 2 of them. There's plenty of no-shows that do not subtract from the attendance that can be announced, in both sports. Sure, this is certainly a much more obvious problem in football, partially because you are dealing with a much higher amount of ticket sales, and partially because the problem appears to be bigger in that sport. But, to point out that soccer has few no-shows would not be true, especially as the weather continues to deteriorate.

I gotta agree with Zach. TW's body of work is good and getting better. Every program is on the rise or about to be made-over to get it there. Good grief. Can anyone other than me look at the state of college athletics and realize TW has horribly missed at hiring a new football coach...the most important sport in college athletics. Am I the only one with a television? He just didn't swing and miss, he was standing in the batters box and swung at a pitch thrown into right field. At the very least, I think we could possibly be confirming that the shortfallls we immediately saw in his background may actually be the kinds of things that would put you at a disadvantage as a head coach. In particular, Its becoming more and more obvious that he looks like he's struggling to outduel the guy on the other sideline with decisions he's making during the game. At this point, I guess we need to start asking, "what will it take for the remainder of the season to show that we're improving"? First, let me repeat something I said last season. ON paper, we were NOT going to be as talented of a team. I still believe that's true. At least in terms of experience. But, that doesn't mean that I don't expect THIS YEAR'S TEAM to show progress through the course of THIS season. For me, I'd like to see us beat at least one beatable team, such as Buffalo or Ken+. AND...show one performance that exceeds expectations by beating a team that we should not have beaten. If that happens, I'll have some hope.

He's a horrible coach. The guy is clueless. Waiting all of these years for his "big break" at his alma mater might have been the biggest mistake of his career. He's 2 months away from being unemployed. I'm guessing that the Week 2 near-loss to Toledo had already put him on shaky ground, and the Miami and Michigan State games have put the nail in the coffin.

A few plays were crucial. 1) Fumble on the 4 yard line....ouch. 2) Delay of Game on a field goal attempt? 3) EMU ripping off that long run right before halftime to get that field goal. Looks like we should have been running out the clock at the end, and not scrambling to try to catch up.

Maybe it's a sign of just how talented some players have been that were only here a short time. But. I'm just amazed that someone would put a guy on this list who has only played 1/2 of a game in his Akron history.

That's the burning question. I'm torn. I want to believe, but I can't convince myself that beating the opponent we beat last week makes us consistently better-prepared to face MAC teams. And we're probably not ready for two good performances back-to-back. On the other hand, this shouldn't be a very good MAC team that we are facing.

Feel free to insert some of their other sports teams in place of the word "Soccer", and the sentence could still hold true.

Hey Dorfman, I thought it was fat and stupid? LOL! I think the line from Animal house was fat, dumb, and stupid. Can't Dorfman - Hey, are you guys playing cards? That movie was a classic! So close................. Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. ding ding....that is correct !! I just remember that I was getting ready to think about college when that movie came out. And I really wanted to believe that college was like that !! I guess at times college can be like that movie, but overall, college was absolutely boring compared to what those guys did.

I saw many red shirts piled up on a table. I asked what they were going to do with them and they said they planned to donate them. Not sure how this helps lessen the red plague in NE Ohio. They should count them, donate an equivalent # of Zips shirts, and then burn them.