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They shouldn't be able to get "jobs" because of the obvious benefits they could receive at the bigger schools, therefore creating an unfair advantage in terms of recruiting. And.....if these guys are so darn poor, and can't pay their bills, why do most of them look like they have thousands of dollars worth of tatoos on their body? Enough said.

I got a good laugh out of that as well. Last January, one would have thought tosu won the national championship when they beat a fifth place, middling SEC program in a meaningless bowl game. I keep making this point all the time. When you are the fan of a program that has won one national championship in the last 43 years, I guess you have nothing left but to claim greatness by bragging about things like beating Michigan and winning most of your games with a 60th ranked schedule. I read an article before the Sugar Bowl last year that talked about how, after 9 straight losses to the SEC, OSWho fans would be pounding their chests and claiming their greatness if they beat Arkansas. And as predicted, that's exactly what we saw.

Regardless of how close Can't is located, you don't attempt to attract more fans by bringing in the people from the heated rival of the local school that's right around the block. I think you alienate more people in the long run. BRILLIANT !!

I would say they have been ironing that out since the Quaker Square deal. They toured Toledo's arena (UA and the City, and rep's from First Energy and some other undisclosed individuals) over a year ago now. I don't think the stadiums push anything back. Donors and Cub Cadet paid for the soccer stadium improvements. The Info was a capital project and they still are getting donors to cover some of that. But that would be the same as saying "how much does all the new buildings push the stadium back". It really didn't. This whole thing started when the Info was built. As for improvements to the JAR, new court, chairback seats for the lower sections, score board, locker rooms. They have put probably $2 million in it to get it to where it is now. Probably as much or more renovation as the Rubber Bowl saw. Whoa!! I'm sure the officials at the U would be rejoicing if they had only put 2 million into the Rubber Bowl. We put that much into it to keep it operating over just those last several years alone. It cost millions every time we did nothing more than just replace the artificial turf. What's sad is that everything that was ever done to the Rubber Bowl in the 30 or so years that I've been going there was hardly noticable

Wow....a lot of good thoughts here. There's never a lack of interest in talking about this topic. Here's more.... g-mann...thanks for the data comparing the age of the JAR, and the age of Memorial when it was replaced. However, if you were on campus at that time, the condition of Memorial in the early 80s was light years away from the condition of the JAR right now. Don't ask me why. We always need to keep in mind that the Rubber Bowl vs. New Football Stadium choice became a much easier choice when it got to the point where it could be justified economically. And the Rubber Bowl went through plenty of renovations in the decades before that happened. Other than the chairback seats in the West upper level, and a new court, has anything significant ever been done to the inside of the playing area of the JAR? How much does the new football stadium and soccer field really push the new basketball arena even further into the future? It sure seems to make sense that a City/U of A joint venture could make it economically justifiable, but I am not sure how long it would take for the parties to get past all of the "who will pay for what" issues. I like Blue & Gold's point about chairback seating throughout the arena. I've been to other arenas that are completely chair back, like our West bleachers, across their entire upper level. But, how much would seating confort increase attendance? Could we expect at least a few hundred more people to suddenly take an interest in Zips Basketball simply because of a more comfortable seat? If so, it should have been done a long time ago. One of my biggest complaints about the JAR is that you enter the building at the BOTTOM of the arena instead of at mid-level. What were they thinking? Those folks that are going to be sitting in the top of the bleacher sections have one heck of a journey up to their seats. We could certainly push this issue along if we started packing the JAR. It's still a mystery to me why a D-1 basketball program with 6 straight 20+ win seasons, MAC titles, and NCAA tourney appearances draws only 2,000-something to many of its games, in a heavily populated area, even if they were playing in a total dungeon of a basketball arena.

I see alot of "can't" and "need" in here. We can whine all we want about not having the things we want, but replacing an arena right now that was built in the 80s is a long shot. Absolutely no comparison whatsoever to the Rubber Bowl situation.

Although I wasn't a math major, I think this one amounts to some easy addition. Renovations already being done to old classroom area PLUS seriously looking into more renovations EQUALS we're going to be playing in the JAR for quite a bit longer. Can I extend my orignial prediction that it will be at least 10 years before we see a new arena?

I agree with much of what you are saying here. Here's where I think this is going. 1) They WILL get slapped harder than USC, because it involved a lot of players, and a big coverup. 2) They've probably done enough to warrant the death penalty, but they won't get the SMU treatment because they are a far better money generator. When it comes out that players from basketball or other sports were involved, then you're talking about a Lack of Institutional Control penalty. Right now it's confined to football, although I find it very hard to believe that their men's basketball program is clean. The NCAA investigation will tell. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't it already been disclosed that there is a "repeated offender" inquiry going on here, and doesn't it include the things that happened under the previoius basketball coach?

I agree with much of what you are saying here. Here's where I think this is going. 1) They WILL get slapped harder than USC, because it involved a lot of players, and a big coverup. 2) They've probably done enough to warrant the death penalty, but they won't get the SMU treatment because they are a far better money generator.

With guys like Tressel running around, I think it makes people appreciate the character of a guy like Gerry even more these days. A guy that really practiced what he preached.

There is some argument as to which vest Tressel will be wearing to work this fall. all-time classic! +2 +3 That's a beauty.

It's common knowledge that their fans have always resorted to claims of "jealousy" and "hatred" towards negative comments about their program. But this time around, the facts are doing all the talking, and the fraud has finally been exposed in a major way. I'm only dissappointed that it took this long. Yet, the claims of "jealousy" and "hatred" still prevail. Way to stay on the company script, Buckeye fans!!! Anyone who designs robotics for a living would likely to be surprised to see the same sort of behavior exhibited by live humans.

I think that a lot of people look at tOSU fans in almost a sympathetic way...I don't, but some may. For ten years tOSU fans, when they weren't packing on a pound of fat a day, made fools of themselves telling everyone how great the program was because of the Big Ten Championships, beating Michigan and BCS appearances. As it turns out, all of those "accomplishments" are hollow. Accomplishments made meaningless because of a lying, cheating scumbag of a coach heading up a dirty football program in a dirty Athletic Department. Having been made a fool of can't sit well with tOSU fans. Having been made a fool of by a THUG con artist of a coach must be upsetting for the fans. Fans knowing that the tainted and hollow accomplishments of the past decade must be upsetting. Everything tOSU did over the past ten years should have the following symbol next to it..... *. Instead of a mascot wearing a nut on his head, he should have to wear a * on his head. It would be the most fitting symbol of the past ten years. How does it feel to be duped? I brought this up earlier. OSWho fans boast about wins against lowly Michigan, being good in the mediocre Big 10, and winning 11 games with a 60th-something ranked schedule because they can't talk about the big prize......NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. They have 1 title in their last 43 attempts, thanks only to a yellow flag that fortunately fell for them after the final whistle. And two attempts ended in lopsided blowouts. What else are they going to brag about? This is why I am enjoying this so much. I know OSWho fans who are throughly convinced that they're better than the SEC, despite their 1-9 record against them, and the SECs 5 straight national titles. I've had to listen to this pompous crap for way too much of my life. This is s achool that is spending more money than anyone else, cheating more than anyone else, and running a sham of an operation to try to achieve greatness. And they've finally been exposed. And what makes this all so hilarious to me is that they are doing all of these things and STILL are not winning the big prize.

This just gets better, and creates more laughter as the days go on As Zips fans, what more can we ask for? The biggest program in our state, that gets the best players, attracts the most fans, and spends the most money to try to "buy" championships (unsuccessfully, by the way) is going down faster than a balloon that just popped. And just think....this is only the beginning of a long, sad story Enjoy the rest of the chapters everyone

I'll never forget the Marshall punter fumbling a snap from center. It was exactly the kind of thing that normally happens to the Zips. I think this is a detail that a lot of people forget. All he had to do was put a foot on the ball, and the game was over !! But, I hope we got a little bit of payback for our bad luck with the ending of the MAC title game against NIU, and the final play of the Western Michigan road game a couple years later. I have to vote with Kangaroo Craig in the poll. JT indeed had the greatest total football career of any Zip ever. But, Charlie's list of accoplishments as a Zip are astounding.

Good post. In this case......maybe they didn't create the beast, but they were the ones who were feeding it.

Interesting thought ZW. I'd think Tournament MVP goes to the best player that weekend and normally to a guy on the winning team. If Miami doesn't make a miracle shot, we have another Tournament MVP, etc. The season MVP goes to a guy who displays excellence over an entire season. Of the three above, Marshall has the most potential to be the best all time. Next year needs to be the break-out year. He needs to average 15+ points per game and 8+ blocked shots per game the next two years to be considered one of the all time greats. I don't think it's asking too much for a high school all American, seven foot tall and a one day four year letterman to average 15+ points per game in the MAC in his junior and senior seasons. In fact, that production should be easy to get. Hmm. Maybe because the other two can't realize any more of their potential because they aren't playing anymore? I agree with you about Marshall. Just to compare Marshall and Boyce, Marcel was about a 17 pt. 9 reb. guy as an average, if I recall. As a skinny 6'-6" small forward. I'd be THRILLED if Zeke can pull those kinds of averages over the next two years. But really, after 2 years in the program, and with his superior physical advantage, I would have hoped he'd be there already, and be exceeding those numbers in his last two years. And maybe the most amazing thing about Boyce was that he was only in a D-1 program for 2 years.

Tournament MVP's may be more V? Boyce? Linhart Marshall I had to go look that one up. McLaughlin was actually the MVP of that 1986 OVC Tourney. And that was his freshman year. Amazing. And what an amazing weekend that was, for those of us old enough to have been there. And we got to experience that right in the JAR. Who would have known that it would be 23 years before we would experience something like that again. We have to remember something else too. There were several years where some great players didn't have a chance to be conference MVPs or conference tournament MVPs because we had no conference affiliation. In particular, this covered the last part of McLaughlin's career, and I believe all of Buford's career. And who would have been the tourney MVP in 2007 if that clock operator had not screwed up? Would Romeo have been a double winner that year?

To offer yet another prespective, if we look at individual accolades, I think the only Conference MVPs of the D-1 era are... Jakubick Boyce Travis

Yea... Winning lol The only reason he won a national championship is because he managed to keep Maurice Clarrett's problems under cover for a season. He kept going to the Rose Bowl with Troy Smith who was accepting cash. He won the Sugar Bowl because he knowingly played five ineligible players. If he ran a clean program, would he have still won? Would he be able to attract the talent that he used to get to the BCS consistently if they knew they wouldn't be getting under-the-table handouts? Would he win the Big Ten every year if all the players that were doing illegal things weren't allowed to play? Good. Very Good. The other things that cracks me up all the time is that OSWho fans think winning the mediocre Big 11 is a big deal. They make a big deal out of it because they aren't winning national championships. So, when the last 43 years of your "superior" football program produces only 1 title, to the credit of an after-the-final-whistle pass interference call, I guess you have to hang your hat on something to try to claim greatness. And all they have left is to say they are consistently good in a non-championship-producing conference.

seriously GP1? someone lost their job today and this is how you're gonna act about it? Yes, he made a mistake, but for the most part he was a stand up individual. Why don't you set your OSU jealousy aside for a little bit and show some class. This is one giant jealousy circus and you sir are the ring leader. A millionaire lost his job today. And you care? He's been doing this crap all the way back to his YSU days. wake up. As a Zips fan, we have to deal with enough competitive disadvantages with the bigger schools. Cheating and lying....repeatedly...certainly is deserving of the "scumbag" label for me too. I have no sympathy whatsoever today for him, his bosses, or the University. They have 100% created their own problem. I hope they get everything they deserve.

I've said all along that we were a better team on paper in 2010 than we will be in 2011. And I have no doubt that the rags probably see this in making their predictions. I just hope we can still find a way to win a lot more than 1 game.

I like all of these rule changes. Having an actual painted arc takes away power from the referees who were previously allowed to call charges under the basket however they saw fit. Not having two separate three-point lines on the court will make womens games less confusing for the fans, name changes to flagrant/intentional fouls also helps. If you recall, there were several instances last season where the type of foul called was in question, when the MAC officials decided that lifting Zeke's arms above his head was illegal. This is not going to change the inconsistency of the difference between a block and a charge, which is by far the biggest issue. By nature, it's a very difficult call to make. And with MAC refs, you tend to have more mistakes than usual. Now we're giving these incompetent refs one more thing (the arc) to focus on when trying to make an already difficult call correctly? And this is somehow taking authority out of the referees hands? I think you're being very optimistic.

Sadly, I have to say there's a lot of truth in what you're saying. If we had taken this approach, I think it's safe to say that the diehards would have paid for the seat license, but the potential fans out there on the fringes would have been pushed even further away. So, I think we're better off right where we are at. Remember something. With the UNCC situation, they're selling a brand new product in a major city. We're selling something that's been around a long time, and needs repairs. These two situations differ greatly in this respect.

It beats playing teams like South Carolina Upstate in some location close to the North Pole. I'd like to see that same phrase I've highlighted show up a lot more often in conversations on this board about the men's program.