skip-zip

As I've said before, I admire your passion for your sport. And regardless of my opinions about the number of soccer fans in NE Ohio, the number of soccer fans at our games, and the popularity of the sport in general......I am a Zips soccer "fan" myself, and I enjoyed watching the World Cup..when the USA was playing. I'd love to see more scoring, but that's the nature of the game. But.....please....I hope you are not trying to make some kind of point here by pointing out that 400 tickets have sold. And yes, I know it's an increase. But, how could such a number answer any questions?

What would you do with the extra 2.5 minutes? Oh my. You guys crack me up sometimes. I say we get rid of the horse emoticon all together. It seems like someone always feels inclined to put that thing up there when a popular topic is discussed. People want to talk about it, so it's a popular topic. So be it. Isn't that why were all here?

Skip-Zip, I've been reading your comments, and trying hard not to get drawn into what to me sounds like trolling, but I would really like to understand your logic. I don't personally think Ohio is a very good market for sports in general --with obvious exceptions like Bucknutz FB and BB, which gets tons of free publicity and the belief that failing to support it is "unpatriotic". However the statement about how many attendees at a game are "soccer fans" mystifies me. Are you trying to say that the sport can only draw if it is successful? Well, duh! Maybe UA could average around 20,000 in their new football stadium, if they were MAC champions or contenders. Does that mean most of those wouldn't be "real football fans", just bandwagon joiners? I'll try to keep as objective a perspective on this discussion as I can, considering I have pretty much given up on any football game that isn't The Beautiful Game. Sorry about that. Maybe if alma mater becomes a force worth paying attention to, I'll come back. No, not "successful". i'm not sure how long you've been around, but our soccer program has already been "successful" for decades. But last year, we had the ultimate honor of being undefeated and ranked #1 in the nation. If you go back, you'll see that I participated in this thread to dispute the point that NE Ohio is full of soccer fans just "waiting for a team to get behind". And I don't see that. I see the spike in attendance last year being mostly attributed to people just wanting to be a part of a possible national championship run by a Zips athletic team. Don't worry about putting off old Z.I.P. I've been listening to people who don't "get" soccer (including my own family) for as long as I've been watching the game -- near 40 years now. And I've been listening also to folks who just can't "get" those who don't get the game. That's the amazing thing -- it's like they live in parallel universes -- across the street from one another. One thing that soccer non-fans don't realize, that I've found (this is part of my response to what Dave from Green said in another thread in response to my statement that soccer is "more than just a game" or words to that effect), most soccer fans I know ONLY or just about exclusively follow that sport, and don't have time to be spectators of other sports. That may not be the experience of others, but it's the case where I live. I have been around club soccer for about twenty years, and can only think of a couple of top boys players who played other games. They and their families are completely devoted to the sport. Now in girl's youth soccer, I can think of more girl players who play other games -- mostly basketball, but the top players, when they're ID's as future stars -- ODP level players for example, they concentrate on soccer as #1. Now back to the earlier matter: Skip you wrote -- "I see the spike in attendance last year being mostly attributed to people just wanting to be a part of a possible national championship run by a Zips athletic team." Now how does that differ from fans "Just waiting for a team to get behind"? That's what I don't get. I'm just waiting for a Akron football team to get behind. But if I watch them, I still won't pay much attention to other college games, let alone the pros. But then again, my mirth for pro football is no different from other pro sports -- I only watch MLS (and overseas leagues) and when possible, NHL. And I'd probably prefer for things to stay the way they are. If soccer became as "mainstream" as the other sports, it would have to become a tool of TV and merchandising like those other games. We have enought "Becks" in American soccer, without a "Decision" Hour for Landon Donovan. You omitted an important part....SOCCER fans waiting for a team to get behind. I guess you can answer your own question. Do you think that the spike in attendance was due to soccer fans coming out to support a soccer team? Or...Zips sports fans, and sports fans in general wanting to see an athletic squad on their way to a possible national championship? My opinion is that it was predominantly the latter. I don't think that it had much to do with some sudden outpouring of local soccer fans just chomping at the bit for a soccer team to support. I personally have been to many of our games over the years, and have a pretty decent knowledge of the sport....and you might be surprised at the number of people sitting around me at our games who have absolutely no idea what is going on. They didn't understand the sport, might nat not want to understand the sport. They were there for the experience of being a part of a nationally top-ranked athletic team.

I'm sure this will be helpful to those of us fans who might be out of the Akron area during a game. But, I see this picking up maybe about 8 new listeners...tops.

Even though he's not on the mainland, you'd be hard pressed to name a board member who is more informed about the UA's soccer program, past and present, than Z.I.P. I don't think it's clearcut whether or not soccer could ever truly thrive in our area. But those of you who give it no chance to ever happen, I believe, are skewed by either their lack of involvement in the game, or their disdain for the game, or both. Does it surprise anyone here that the Seattle Sounders, with one of the worst records in MLS, still are able to draw over 30,000 fans for each home game? Some of you will cite the eccentric nature of those who live in the Pacific Northwest as the reason for this apparent anomaly. But that's a convenient conclusion to draw for someone who has already made their mind up on the issue. I believe the MLS, while not without it's problems (especially DC United), will experience significant attendance increases with the expansion into Vancouver, Portland, and Montreal over the next two years. As the health of MLS improves, the chances for new successful franchises to be established anywhere in the US will no doubt improve as well. Of course, the expected nasty labor relations foreseen in the "big" pro sports leagues in the coming years wouldn't hurt MLS either. Please don't misinterpret my post. It had nothing to do with whether this gentleman is "knowledgable about UA soccer'. I actually admire his passion for the sport. Secondly, I was simply being informative about our soccer program's success in past decades, not knowing whether he is old enough to have been around when we had all of our other good teams going back 20-30 years.

Skip-Zip, I've been reading your comments, and trying hard not to get drawn into what to me sounds like trolling, but I would really like to understand your logic. I don't personally think Ohio is a very good market for sports in general --with obvious exceptions like Bucknutz FB and BB, which gets tons of free publicity and the belief that failing to support it is "unpatriotic". However the statement about how many attendees at a game are "soccer fans" mystifies me. Are you trying to say that the sport can only draw if it is successful? Well, duh! Maybe UA could average around 20,000 in their new football stadium, if they were MAC champions or contenders. Does that mean most of those wouldn't be "real football fans", just bandwagon joiners? I'll try to keep as objective a perspective on this discussion as I can, considering I have pretty much given up on any football game that isn't The Beautiful Game. Sorry about that. Maybe if alma mater becomes a force worth paying attention to, I'll come back. No, not "successful". i'm not sure how long you've been around, but our soccer program has already been "successful" for decades. But last year, we had the ultimate honor of being undefeated and ranked #1 in the nation. If you go back, you'll see that I participated in this thread to dispute the point that NE Ohio is full of soccer fans just "waiting for a team to get behind". And I don't see that. I see the spike in attendance last year being mostly attributed to people just wanting to be a part of a possible national championship run by a Zips athletic team.

I'm sorry, but that might be one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. By letting every team in, you destroy the 4-month regular season in favor a couple week tournament. If the regular season wasn't meaningless enough, you want to reward bad teams with home court advantage? That certainly doesn't make any sense. Although, as an Akron fan, I love GoZips idea, the highlighted area above is the reason why it would never, ever, never happen. Not only does it reward bad teams, it also removes any incentive to be a higher seed.

Keep in mind the Caps were a minor league soccer team (semipro) with a minor league marketing budget. It did make the sports page, and a spot on WKNR when it was first announced. It never got the publicity the City Stars did later. But soccer fans found it. In record numbers. It's like when the Aeros broke attendance records. We're not talking New York Yankee attendance numbers, nor a NY Yankee marketing budget. But comparing apples to apples, the Aeros are/were one of the top five minor league draws, even though they are third tier. The games sold out five days before the game. You can't just look at who was there and say "Man, this is all we can draw" when a majority of the fans were unable to get tickets. Let alone the big walk-up crowd. When the news says the game is sold out, you're not going to show up and stand in line to get tickets. Well, I hope you don't You can ignore the Force if you want, or make excuses why they were popular, doesn't change the fact they existed, or that there are a L O T of soccer fans in Northeast Ohio. Something that nobody has shown one bit of a reason to prove there isn't. Just a bunch of myopic opinions. I'm not trying to discredit your feelings as a soccer fan. But again, put all of this into perspective. You again should ask yourself, were those Force game attendees "soccer fans just dying for a team to support"? Or, sports fans jumping on the opportunity to be a part of the only Cleveland professional team at the time with a chance to win a national title? If you're being honest with yourself, I think you'd find most of them to be the latter. If anyone really thought that the current NE Ohio fan base contained all of these so-called "soccer fans", who were just yearning to have a team to support, and would show up as 20,000 strong, every game.....don't you think there's would have been another pro soccer team in this area a long time ago? It sounds like a no-brainer of an investment by a team owner to me. Since high school sports are so popular in this area, use that as a guage. If these "soccer fans" are out there, they'd probably find a good high school game to be appealing, and I don't hear about them flooding into the area high school soccer games. As far as Zips soccer goes, I know all about them having to stop the sale of tickets several days in advance for a few of our games last year. But, they were limiting the sales to about 3,000, and a little more during the tournament games with the temporary bleachers. And in a couple of cases, they let that stretch another day or two, and let a couple hundred more tickets sell. But, if your projection of 10,000 were true, you'd have to assume about 7,000 or so people got turned away. It didn't happen. And just for the sake of your point, lets assume that 10,000 people did show up. Would you assume that they were "soccer fans"?

I'd sure like to know more. Those are two big players gone Especially Baumgartner, who looked to have potentially a great career ahead of her here. What happened?

You'd enjoy 2 hours of bad football a lot more if you combined it with 4 additional hours of good tailgating

There were a lot of bandwagon jumpers there, for sure. Just looking for a winner. But judging by what a lot of fans were wearing to the games, what they were talking about there, their demographic, I have to disagree. I was there (a common theme when we talk about soccer here, if you haven't figured out yet). The Caps (short for Whitecaps) were owned by retired pro player Mike Sweeney. They played in 1997 and 98 in what was then "D3", now the USL's Second Division. In 1997 they played at Byers Field. The led D3 in attendance, breaking single game and season attendance records. They played an exhibition against the Columbus Crew and packed the place. I had season tickets. (See, there it is again). In 1998 the league threw down a rule that teams could not play on artificial turf. Mike tried to find a natural turf stadium to play in, the team bounced around the county, and attendance plummeted. Unable to secure a suitable venue for 1999, Mike decided not to field a team. This was the first D3 team in Cleveland the league screwed up. So if the soccer program wasn't limited in the number of tickets it sold last year, you don't think they could have gotten 10,000 people for the NCAA Tournament and outdrew the E Mich game? The Force use to draw 20,000 for INDOOR soccer. They drew that many to the RB for an EXHIBITION game. Been there, saw that, still got the T-shirt. I've been watching soccer for 30 years, at the local level and world wide. You better bring more than chest pounding to get something like that past me... I do remember Mike Sweeney. I just never heard of the Whitecaps, or ever heard anyone talk about them, so thanks for hte info. You say that they broke attendance records. But seriously, how many fans were they drawing? The Cleveland Force was definitely a rarity that I don't think anyone can explain, other than the fact that every other Cleveland sports team stunk at the time, and they were winning. And there sure is a lot more action in indoor soccer, which could have been what attracted people. I disagree that the Zips could have drawn 10,000 for a soccer game. And I was at some of those highly-attended games last year myself. If thousands of people were standing at the gate getting turned away, I missed it.

Not to belittle our soccer program in any way, but please put all of this into perspective. Think about how many people were at our soccer games last year because they wanted to see an undefeated, nationally-ranked Zips athletic squad on their way to possibly winning a national championship? I think you would be way off the mark to conclude that they were just "soccer fans waiting for a team to get behind". What attendance record did the Cleveland Caps break? What was their attendance? I have to be honest. I have never heard of the Cleveland Caps.

That pretty much sums it up. And an emphasis on the word "small". Sorry, but that's just the way it is. And I don't see that ever changing. You guys are getting way off base with the football vs. soccer question. The REAL question is will the people in and around Akron support local COLLEGE ATHLETICS? Skip must have missed the REAL question in the opening post, but he did address one of the main questions in the opening post, AND he didn't use a baseball-related phrase to make a comment about the football/soccer issue like you did. Scott, If I go back to the original question from mes102, I see that the question seems to be whether the soccer/basketball combination will be more of an attraction than the football/basketball combination. And the answer would be a resounding NO !! In regards to other sports, lets take a look at some of them: Unless women's basketball somehow gains some national attention, I think their attendance will always be in the hundreds. Women's soccer?...forget about it. Men's soccer?...if they maintain high national ranking, they could continue to compete with men's basketball for game-to-game attendance. But, if they were to drop to a point where they were not wearing that "national powerhouse" label anymore, I'm afraid to say that you'd be counting their attendance in the hundreds once again. If were talking about the potential for "thousands" of new local people jumping on board to support an Akron Zips sport, it's only ever going to happen with football and men's basketball.

I'm in favor of anything that gives Akron a better chance of getting into the tournament. Now, that's how it looks in theory. We'll have to see how it actually plays out. If it's just an opportunity for them get a few more bad teams from power conferences into the tournament, then I can get angry.

It would be foolish to think otherwise. When you are Akron, you have to use EVERYTHING you have.

That pretty much sums it up. And an emphasis on the word "small". Sorry, but that's just the way it is. And I don't see that ever changing.

The staring lineup will be Steve M., Darryl, Nik, Zeke, and Brett. And isn't the "McNees can't play point" really a futile comment at this point? His floor leadership got us one MAC championship, and nearly single-handedly willed us to another. Would you really expect our coach to suddenly change his mind about him during his senior year?

Yes, I can honestly say that Lebron has NOT helped us land any recruits. He has never recruited any one, to say that a kid decides to attend the University of Akron because Lebron grew up in Akron is complete stretch and nowhere close to reality. Kids choose Akron over other MAC schools because we have been one of the top teams in the MAC. and getting LBJ's gear a chance to meet the guy have him come to your games and play under one of his coaches wouldn't help at all? I'm not saying it was a huge swing but I could see it being the final little push for a kid on the fence I want kids to come to UofA because they want to help the program carry on a winning tradition, not to wear LBJ stuff. Sure. Lets just forget about using every little advantage we might have to recruit kids. Especially when it involves a connection to a celebrity, or in this case, a two time NBA MVP. We don't need to do that. We're Akron. Kids are dying to play here for a lot of other different reasons.

Bingo!! Those of you posting as if you are a part of this "everyone in NE Ohio hates LeBron" mentality are badly off the mark. Diehard Cavs fans...maybe so. But among Zips fans and others in the area, I'm not seeing it. LeBron chose to give his services to another employer. It happens all the time. If you are a big Cavs fan, I feel your pain. You just lost your best player. I get it. But, do yourself a favor and stop trying to ease your pain by convincing yourself that everyone now hates this guy. I'm really upset that some Zips fans and Akronites have allowed themselves to get consumed in the immature name-calling and bashing. I read that hundreds of cars passed LeBron's house honking their horn and yelling obscenities? What is this going to accomplish?? Come on folks!! Talk about negative publicity!!! This is our chance to separate ourselves from the "mistake on the lake". If we continue to do things like this, call LeBron names, and applaud the irrational and unprofessional comments of their owner, we will continue to be considered a part of that loser city. Is that what we want?

Just what I expected, a few more childish and immature posts. By the way, after reading the Beacon today, I would like to commend Coach Joyce, Coach Dambrot, and the mayor for their professional remarks concerning LeBron's choice to play for another team, and their appreciation for what he has done for Akron and the U of A. I can only wish that the Cavs owner had reacted in even a remotely similar fashion.

I was thinking these same two EXACT things last night. Great post.

What free agents?! Because of LBJ's ego, all of the top free agents are with other teams! LeBron screwed us like no other. I LOVE Dan Gilbert. He's my hero right now. He called out LeBron for HOW he left, not that he left. He also called him out for quitting in the playoffs. What a man. lilroodude...this is the statement I don't understand today. He had always said that he was keeping his options open, and met with all of those teams, and made his decision during the first week of the opening of the free agency period. I'm sorry. I don't get this "we got blindsided", or "he took forever to make a decision" point of view.

As I continue to read some of these posts, you would think that this is the first time that a player entered free agency and decided to play for another team. Or, that an employee has never left his job to work for another company in the same line of work. I understand being upset today if you are a big Cavs fan. I completely sympathize with you. A player on your favorite team decided to play for somebody else. Why?...we might never know. Could have been 100 different possible reasons. But for whatever reason, he decided to offer his services to somebody else. It happens all the time in the real world. You go find some other players/employees, and you move on.

Thanks. That was great seeing those old pictures. I was fortunate enough to be in college just before the transition to JAR. I guess to some of the younger fans, it's probably difficult to image Rhodes Arena being considered a "major upgrade" in facilities. But, it sure was.

The only way? So, if LeBron decides for any reason that Miami is a nicer place to live on a permanent basis, it would be Akronites' fault for not giving him enough unconditional worship to keep him here? That's a pretty heavy guilt trip to try to lay on the people of Akron, and I doubt that many will buy into it. Let's be honest here. None of us really knows what's going to happen next. LeBron could remain loyal to Akron until the day he dies, or he could discover that Miami is his true hometown and ditch Akron completely, or anything in between. But it's all up to LeBron, not to us. He's no longer a physically precocious kid. He's an adult who is responsible for his own actions, good, bad or indifferent. Exactly. Who really knows the future. We can only go by what's happened in the past. And if LeBron stays true to what he's done in the past, he's not dissing Akron. Heck, he really only lives here for 3 months out of the year anyhow. The rest of the year he's in hotel rooms. Precedent dictates he's staying in Akron. Of course, tomorrow he may decide to build a lunar module and orbit the planet in the off season. Who really knows for sure? Nobody. But that's precisely why we've got to base most of our assumptions on past experience. We know his money situation is not an issue, but I still doubt that he would have built his mega-mansion in Bath if he did not intended on spending a good amount of time in Akron, whenever possible, in the future. We've all said it. We don't really know what he's going to do. But, unlike many athletes, he's shown a continued effort to give back to Akron, and has publicized Akron on countless occassions. I think that's a great sign if you care about Akron, value his contributions to our city, and feel optimistic about what he'll do for Akron in the future.