Announcement Coming!!!

[Z.I.P.]

Pardon me, but things are gettin' pretty bright around here!

Within the next few weeks, the university will announce their plans to begin planning and design of a new basketball and events arena to replace the aging, undersized home they've had for the past twenty-some odd years. No word yet on where it might be built. The timing of the project will be such that construction will not begin until after the completion of the football stadium, whose construction could begin as soon as early 2006. Look for finalization of those plans to come out this Summer.

Thanks for the news, Mr Insider

[Big Zip]

Great news -- how are they going to fun it? I know years ago one of the plans they looked at for the Jar was actually going to take a side of the building off and reconstruct the building from there -- round out the corners on the top. I really hope the deal is deal with the city of akron, but i doubt that will happen. Nonetheless I'll be watching for the news - thanks for the heads up.

[Guest rtn]

great news. The JAR is an embarrassment.

[Akron Hooper]

Why would it be a good idea to build something with the City? Seems to me all that would do is cut down on the Akron U feel to the arena and take the building off-campus. That is already a problem with the Rubber Bowl - why make the same mistake twice.

[Zip Watcher]

Not that I really have one, but my vote would be for an agressive renovation job on the JAR. We don't need to neccesarily build a 10k arena from scratch. Let's get rid of the track upstairs and build a new permanent upper level that comes up right behind the lower bowl. Making a new concourse behind & under the upper deck, with concessions / restrooms and tunnels to get in. It will tighten up the arena, and with a creative solution to eliminate the corner poles, we could add another 1500 to 2000 seats upstairs. 8k would be a real nice size and if you move the upper seats closer, it would be a louder, more intimate setting.

The end seating, I'd like to see them re configured something like the Beeghly Center @ YSU. Just make it one straight shot of seats all the way up without a break (requires a modification of Porky's and the concessions underneath)..

I'm interested to what they have to show us .. but I think it would be cool to upgrade the JAR now that it's not needed as a multipurpose facility due to the new center across the street.

I'd rather have a jammed 8k seat gym than building something like CSU or OU and only fill it 2 or 3 times a season.

[Guest ***GUEST_Z.I.P.***]

I have to assume from what I've heard that the intent is for a complete new facility to be built on another site. No idea what will become of the JAR -- though the offices are needed close to the new indoor facilities across the street.

I also like the idea of a major re-build on the JAR itself. And, I have a question -- that I may have asked previously without receiving a response:

Why did the capacity of the JAR decrease by nearly 2000 a few years after its opening? Look at the attendance stats and records for the arena, and you see that on its opening and for several games after that in the early years of Bob Huggins' regime that the place often drew more than 7k for big games. I was there for the BG game, I believe the first one played there (Oh - my goodness what a disastrous defeat as BG came back from a 9-point deficit in the last 55 seconds!), when just over 7000 were in attendance.

I believe from my sole return to the building in the 2002-03 season, that they may have removed most or all of the upper end-zone seating that used to get filled with many students and loud boosters. Did the Fire Marshalls require the removal of seats for safety reasons, or what?

[UA Fan]

great news.  The JAR is an embarrassment.

Its kinda hard to believe the JAR is over 20 years old already. When I started at Akron there was a small fire station on that site. They wanted to build something a little bigger and nicer at the time but didn't have the funds, however, playing in Memorial Hall in the (early) 80's was the true embarrassment...its not even nice for a high school gym. Somewhere I read that Memorial and Carroll Halls are slated for replacement but that probably wouldn't be the right spot for an arena.

I know they have wanted a facility big enough for commencement exercises. Figure a few thousand grads in the spring, times 3-4 guests per grad and you're at 10-12K seats, probably like a CSU Convocation Center. We really need the new football stadium first though.

[Hilltopper]

I have it from a very good source that an announcement about a new FOOTBALL stadium is not too far off. Dr. Proenza has a person scouring the books for the money to make it happen. He believes that AU must have an on campus football stadium to compete for todays student. Its all part of his plan to take AU from a "commuter" type school to a more traditional "residence" school. It has been proven that once Dr. P wants something he gets it!

[Captain Kangaroo]

And, I have a question -- that I may have asked previously without receiving a response:

Why did the capacity of the JAR decrease by nearly 2000 a few years after its opening?

The local Fire Marshall limited the seating. I was at the 1986 CSU/Akron game...7,700 @ the JAR. People were sitting in the aisles...stairways...it was insane...you could barely move.

The Fire Marshall thought it was insane too, and limited the capacity soon afterwards.

[Zip Watcher]

Wasn't that also accomplished by adding additional chairback seats upstairs? Was that upper side always chair backs? I thought maybe they added the chair backs a few seasons later to limit the capacity that way also.

I'll never forget how hot the JAR was against MTSU in the OVC tourney final. I need to get a press guide or something to take a look at that box score to see announced numbers .. had to have been one of the largest crowd in the building's history.

I've scoured the web a few times, but haven't been able to find a box score .. anyone have it?

[Z.I.P.]

Reading glasses.

ZW: Had to search thru my stash of old media guides, and found it in the classic 1991-92 guide from the year of The Great Hawaii Trip with the Alberts family, Cheerleaders and Zippy's Tail (don't ask about that one!).

The attendance given for the 1986 OVC Tournament game vs Middle Tenn St (3-8-86) is 6,701. The record attendance is 8,168 for that Cleveland State game (not 7700 Cap'n) on 12-9-86. Next highest was 7,131 on 2-22-86 vs the Racers of Murray State. The opening night attendance for Bowling Green was 5,864 -- less than a sellout at the time. And I can vouch that they did indeed have backs on those chairs. I had to slouch back after BeeGee came back from down 9 in the final 55 seconds -- Akron didn't get off another shot. And the section I was in seemed to be the BG section -- aaargghhh!

Zip in Paradise

[UA Fan]

Wasn't that also accomplished by adding additional chairback seats upstairs?  Was that upper side always chair backs?  I thought maybe they added the chair backs a few seasons later to limit the capacity that way also.

I'll never forget how hot the JAR was against MTSU in the OVC tourney final.  I need to get a press guide or something to take a look at that box score to see announced numbers .. had to have been one of the largest crowd in the building's history.

I've scoured the web a few times, but haven't been able to find a box score .. anyone have it?

There were upper chairback seats added some years ago, I don't remember exactly when but they weren't all there from the beginning. It probably reduced capacity a little. The JAR has also been packed for King James and HS tourney games and we hosted the girls state finals (mighta been Regionals but I think it was State, mid-90's?). Honestly, the JAR is not even big enough for big H.S. games...building something bigger helps pay for itself by hosting more big events & concerts.

[Zip Watcher]

Anyone here ever been to Conte Forum @ BC? It occured to me that maybe costs could be spread around by combining the facilities (FBall & Hoops).

NOT in a Bobinski type dome or something .. more from a structural and physical plant perspective.

Conte Forum @ BC is sort of like that. The Forum is the Basketball / Hockey arena on BC's campus. Nothing too spectacular about the arena itself, but it is a nice facility.

What makes it unique is that it sits behind one of the sidelines of the House that Flutie Built. On top of the Forum is an upper deck to the football stadium that was built well after the stadium opened.

The kicker is that there is a row of suites / lux boxes that look into both the football and basketball venues. They look in along the baseline (above one of the student section ends) of the Arena, and are centered at the 50 yardline of the Football stadium. I'm not sure how the access works .. clearly there must be a hallway or something ..

But it's an interesting thought when you think about space limitations on campus and the desire to keep the facilities centrally located with respect to the rest of the athletic sites. Some concessions / facilities could be shared .. sell a few boxes to the big companies / booster groups (makes for a cool Tommy Evans / Varsity A combination).

I'm thinking something in the neighborhood of 8-10k seats max for hoops, sort of configured in an Anderson Arena "band box" setup .. only modernized.

I've got tons of thoughts about JAR upgrades also .. very interested to see what transpires on the facilities side once we start running out of room in the rafters.

[Zipsrifle]

Good discussion. I really am not much of a BB fan, but I am kind of amazed that they want a new BB Arena. Unless something has drastically changed in the last say, 5 years, I thought the JAR was in great shape. Just like any other sport at UA, a new facility will help recruiting. But I would be in favor of revamping the JAR and not building an entire new facility. I think the track and the collapsible seating is no longer needed since the fieldhouse now has ample room for activities that used to take place there.

IF, on the other hand, a study shows that the U may be able to make a significant profit over time due to the construction of a new facility.....go for it. I would, though, find this hard to believe. With the CSU Convocation center just 30 min up the road, in a much larger market, I don't think UA can construct something that would turn a significant profit. So IMO, I hope a rennovation is in order. Up to this point I can see a clear need for the construction of new facilities. A new BB arena would appear to be more of a want, and not as easy to justify as the other facilities. I would like to see the money spent in other areas of the University.

On the topic of collaboration with the City......I dug something up some time ago about about how ambitious Dr. Proenza has been with the concept of "Polymer Valley". I believe it was a concept that was first tried back in the early 90's to help spur the development of high tech polymer jobs in the city of Akron. From the article, I think about the only success story was Advanced Elastomer Systems. Since Dr. Proenza has come into office, he has been much more aggressive in working to establish Akron as "Polymer Valley" I'll do some digging to see if I can find the article again.

Right now I think UA is the greatest asset that the City has. I see UA as in the drivers seat in this relationship. Not only does it pump a lot of money into the city, it has revamped 1/2 of the core of the city. There would be nothing in the city as far as Sports or Performing Arts if it weren't for UA. (I believe they helped to get some funding for Canal Park). I wouldn't doubt that there has been significant discussion between City Hall and Buchtel Hall on the placement of the new football stadium. This is a lackluster area of the city near a major freeway. A new stadium with a winning team would help this area tremendously. I would imagine any new arena would go in the same area to help keep buisnesses booming year round. I think that UA has already gone through any options presented by the City and has the final word on what will or won't happen.

OK, I could go on, but I'm sure I've put everyone to sleep

[Z.I.P.]

Rifler, you are not just right on, but most prescient!

Now that you've looked up that word I can tell you the latest rumor I get is that what the admin wants is not a new building (sorry if I steered this thread there), but a very heavy-duty rebuild to the current arena. It would include an upgrade to the court-front lower seating to make a more attractive section for the big-hitters (i.e, LeBron & Co.), with the lower seats placed slightly higher and apart from the court. Then the biggest change would be a complete re-do to the upper seating with all chair-backs put in, and the running track/practice areas removed, and a couple thousand new seats added to bring the capacity to about 8,000. Finally, the biggest change in appearance -- a third tier of seats added higher up, closer to the ceiling where it's believed space is lost.

If anyone has better rumors, let them be known.

[Zip Watcher]

I concur Z.I.P.! You and I think alike.

I can picture an upgraded bandbox JAR that could be tough as hell to play in as a road team. The team on the court is doing its part .. now the community & campus will follow suit.

[GP1]

Now that you've looked up that word I can tell you the latest rumor I get is that what the admin wants is not a new building (sorry if I steered this thread there), but a very heavy-duty rebuild to the current arena. It would include an upgrade to the court-front lower seating to make a more attractive section for the big-hitters (i.e, LeBron & Co.), with the lower seats placed slightly higher and apart from the court. Then the biggest change would be a complete re-do to the upper seating with all chair-backs put in, and the running track/practice areas removed, and a couple thousand new seats added to bring the capacity to about 8,000. Finally, the biggest change in appearance -- a third tier of seats added higher up, closer to the ceiling where it's believed space is lost.

If anyone has better rumors, let them be known.

This is a good idea, but no small undertaking. One basketball season would be impacted by the change. Where would the team play......Gund Arena, CSU, Can't State, Canton Civic Center or a little at all of the above like WVU did when they worked on their basketball arena?

How about a couple of old school games? Bring in some temporary seats and play at Memorial Hall.

[Zip Watcher]

I've never been in the building, but is the Knight Center big enough to make a bushleague little gym out of it for a season? If you ever went to the MAC tourney at the Seagate center when it was there, it was nothing more than an open room with some retractable seats. You don't need too big of a room to have 5000 temporary seats.

Again, I haven't been in the Knight Center, but I imagine it must have a big common convention floor that might do the trick. I'll have to look into it.

I like the idea of having some old school games at Memorial .. what did that hold anyway? We could schedule the biggest games there so that there would be people on top of the court .. and nary an empty seat!

[Zip Watcher]

It might be tight, but maybe this would work. I did some digging and found a couple of links.

First, the Seagate center, where the MAC tourney was held. It's a 75000 seat room when all the Halls are used, as they were then. The seating was temporary & the court was arranged horizontally on the floorplan shown. My recollection was that there were large unused areas behind both endzone sections. It sat somewhere in the neighborhood of 9000 for the basketball games I think. Here's a Link:

Former home of the MAC Tourney

Second, the John S. Knight center in Akron. I found this on their webpage (& I dare you to find that page on google), and here's a verbal description of the exhibit hall, quoting from their site:

The upper level 30,000 square - foot exhibition hall has ceilings 30 feet to the trusses and 48 feet to the decking.

And an image of the floorplans is located on this page:

Click Here if you don't feel like working!

There aren't real dimensions indicated, but from some scaling in an image program, I'd estimate that the space is about 164' X 182' .. with 30' ceilings as said above (more on that later).

So if a court is 94' by 50' and you assume an 8' buffer around the court for benches & scoring tables .. etc, you're left with a space of 110' by 66' that is used up by the court. I would arrange the court across the room as shown on the image, so that more rows could be fit along the sidelines. So what does that leave us?

On the sidelines there would be 58' on each side for retractable bleachers. By my rough estimate a row of bleachers is about 3' front to back and 1' high (totally guessing here). This would fit about 20 rows per side for 40 sideline rows. The sideline rows would extend beyond the court limits laterally, but leave about 15' at each end for exits & traffic .. this gives a row width of 130' Subtract about 12' for aisle space (3 aisle per side) and we're left with 118' of width for asses and 40 total rows.

On the ends, there would be 27' on each end, leaving room for about 9 rows in each endzone. The width of the end seating would be the same as the court - 50' and there would be one center aisle, so we're left with 44' of ass space and 18 rows.

So the total amount of ass space in the place would be approximately: 118*40 + 44*18 = 5512' of sitting space

So now you ask: "ZW how wide is an ass? How does that relate to people?" My guess is that bleechers are generally sized at about 18" per seat. So that would leave a seating capacity of 3674 in the JSK Center for basketball.

- There is also the issue of celing height. And while the bleachers would clear things pretty easily, I wonder what the minimum height needs to be to play basketball. 30' ? IS that enough? The track at the JAR is 22 cinderblocks above the court level (don't ask why I counted them last night) That would be about 22' above the court. Is the bottom of the scoreboard more than 8' above the track? Is it 30' off the court? Not sure here.

Seems like it would be a band box, but how many games have we had more than 3500 at the JAR in the past few seasons. I think something like this would be manageable for part of one season. Could the job on the JAR be completed in 10 months? Perhaps start it on March 3rd and wrap it up by the end of the calendar year, leaving most of the MAC season to be played in the renovated gym? Seems like a reach to me .. might need more time.

As I finish this drain on my work productivity, I find myselve thinking .. why not just put a temporary setup in the new Athletics complex. Again try to minimize it's requirements to a handful of games or half a season, but there's tons of room in there & if you could work around the track & football schedules, maybe it could be done?? That's probably the largest inside space anywhere around.

[Guest Cantonese]

Play in the Canton Fieldhouse - now that would be a wild house for MAC hoops and it is easy to get to from Akron with lots of parking. Playing down south would also expose Akron hoops to a whole new fan base.