Elton Alexander says...

[Captain Kangaroo]

It's time the Zips recruited an "at risk" player?Funny that he mentions Bosley, Tarver and Hollingsworthless. How many championships, NIT wins and NCAA appearances did those guys garner? Z-E-R-O.

[Quickzips]

I'm not sure what he's getting at here. He says we should look at a JUCO or an at-risk high schooler to supplement Zeke in this class. Does he not realize that we have only one scholarship to give (presuming that all of the indications are correct that Conyers will get another year)? That part of the article just doesn't make sense. I hope KD doesn't go down that road. It's a great way to build short term success but eventually it will bite you in the ass. Exhibit A: The 2008-09 Can't State Golden flushes.

[zipsbandman]

I can see where Elton is getting at here. We have the best coaching staff in this conference but it takes players to win too. The zips need to find a way to get over the hump and do something. I really think our athleticism has limited us from winning championships. It's how we lost to Dayton. We only have one scholarship to give and that goes to Zeke but when he is here, why not go for one or two talented JUCO's in classes after and really try to build a formidable team around him that can get to the NCAA tourney and win games? I like humpty but we need more players like him that can bring some offense and create something. Look at Ham n' cheese at Can't (probably the most talent in the conference last year). The guy plays two years there and helps them to another championship. We need a win now philosophy during Zeke's time here because a player of his caliber does not come around very often.

[ZachTheZip]

I don't think Elton did his homework on this one.1. We can't recruit another player for 2009. Even if Conyers is denied another year, his scholarship will likely go to a deserving Darryl Roberts.2. We've done just fine without recruiting ANY at-risk kids or JUCOs for five years straight. Why mess with a formula that is proven to work by throwing instability into the mix?

[RowdyZip]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe he's hinting at the Zips needing to get an experienced talented wing to be a "wingman" for Zeke in his SOPHOMORE season...that way the Zips are better able to pair up a solid inside-outside threat without spending another year to develop the talent. I'm not sure I agree with that sentiment...

[Captain Kangaroo]

2. We've done just fine without recruiting ANY at-risk kids or JUCOs for five years straight. Why mess with a formula that is proven to work by throwing instability into the mix?

Compare K.e.n.t.s' success over the past 5 years with the Zips. If you like championships, you'd go with K.e.n.t.

[Zip Watcher]

A fair comparison is to look at Can't State in the first 5 years of Waters and compare that to KD.

[ZipAlumn]

I don't think Elton did his homework on this one.1. We can't recruit another player for 2009. Even if Conyers is denied another year, his scholarship will likely go to a deserving Darryl Roberts.2. We've done just fine without recruiting ANY at-risk kids or JUCOs for five years straight. Why mess with a formula that is proven to work by throwing instability into the mix?

I fully agree. More often than not when you go with JUCO players you get problems. Not always but often enough to avoid the possibility to begin with.

[Dave in Green]

I'd give KD credit for being able to sort the solid jucos from the questionable ones, if he is so inclined, and focus in only on those who would be a credit to the University.

[Valpo Zip]

If KD wanted to go down that road, this current year would have been the right time to do it because we are very young and we had a ton of scholarships. But next year, when Ronnie, Humpty, and Nik all have a year under their belt and Conyers, the McKnights, Roberts, and Bardo are all seasonned players why exactly would we need a JUCO transfer? let alone the fact that no scholarship is available. I think it is just another lazy journalist who wanted to write story without much effort.

[skip-zip]

I guess you have to look at each situation, and evaluate.I totally agree with Captain that I would sure trade our accomplishments for Can't's MAC titles, NCAA tournament appearances, and NCAA tournament successes over the last decade. They obviously have found a way to make the JUCO system work. Remember....the last time we appeared in the NCAA tournament....our team was carried by a JUCO transfer.

[Captain Kangaroo]

A fair comparison is to look at Can't State in the first 5 years of Waters and compare that to KD.

Gary Waters' @ K.e.n.tIn his 5 years @ K.e.n.t. - 2 NCAA appearances (1 win) and an NIT Quarterfinal appearance. In basketball poker, that beats 2 NIT's. And the K.e.n.t. Elite 8 team of the "6th" season was entirely his. Like KD, he's responsible for making basketball relevant at a school where it was forgotten for over a decade. Hell - he's taken CSU to the NIT, and they'd been dormant since Reagan's second term.Believe me, I dig Dambrot as much as anyone. The the future looks even better for KD's 2nd five years than the 1st five. But -- It still remains to be proven that KD can get over the hump and:1.) Win a MAC championship2.) Win a "marquee" OOC game (defined as a regular season win(s) that give the Zips justification to get an at-large NCAA tourney bid)K.e.n.t. is our biggest rival, and they have championship banners out the ying yang. I'm 42 years old and I haven't seen a UA NCAA tourney appearance since I was 19. That's a long time.Sticking to the point of the thread - Alexander MAY be correct that bringing in an upper-tier talent with mid-tier "baggage" may be what's necessary for the Zips to get over the hump. Alexander MAY be wrong, because there are a slew of mid-major teams that have had recent success in the NCAA tourney with cohesive teams of 4th and 5th year seniors. The Horizon League and Missouri Valley are great examples. I've read worse from Alexander. IMO however, although K.e.n.t. has been successful with transfers (please, not Tarver, Hollingsworthless or Bosley), there's more than one way to skin a cat.

[zippyrifle32]

Believe me, I dig Dambrot as much as anyone. The the future looks even better for KD's 2nd five years than the 1st five. But -- It still remains to be proven that KD can get over the hump and:1.) Win a MAC championship2.) Win a "marquee" OOC game (defined as a regular season win(s) that give the Zips justification to get an at-large NCAA tourney bid)

you're right... let's just fire him along with jd.

[Quickzips]

If IF I were going to take a chance on a JUCO. The one that comes to mind is Ray Chambers. He's an athletic, skilled PF who has a good raport with our starting PG. The only question would be whether or not he's got his grades in line at the JUCO level to where he would make it to campus for us. As far as the Can't/Akron discussion goes, I see it as rather worthless. Can't lives life on the edge. They bring in JUCO's and transfers and character risks all over the place and for a while now it has worked for them. Akron is building a program with quality high school recruits. It might not provide the immediate results that you see at Can't, but we don't have to rebuild our roster every 2 years and we don't have to constantly worry about team chemistry falling apart due to bad attitudes. I've got quite a bit of faith in KD that his model is going to get us there in the next couple of years.

[skip-zip]

I'm still puzzled why people try to make the argument that our formula is better than Can't's. Can't has won with transfers. It's hard to argue. I've heard this, "well...it's going to backfire on them" argument before....for many, many years. But in the meantime, they just keep winning titles, and making postseason appearances. Where did this mindset come from that JC transfers are in some way a "no no"? Many, many schools go to the JC ranks for help. I'm never going to say that we should, or should not go after these guys. But, if a situation presents itself that can help the team, why shouldn't we at least be taking a look at it?

[zipsbandman]

Can't's formula is better. They have the rings to prove it. There is no such thing as a rebuilding year over there btw. They just bring in more talent.

[Quickzips]

I think some over at the Can't board would beg to differ that there isn't such a thing as a "rebuilding year." Many of them are looking at this year and even next year as a rebuilding year. Look, I'm not saying Can't's formula can't be successful long term. Yes, they have had the success and they have sustained it for a few years now. But there is no doubt that they do it on a dangerous road. When you have a group of guys (like this years freshman class) that will be together for 4-5 years at a time you build a lot of team chemistry and guys work better and better together. When you have a group of guys that will only be together 2 years, maximum you are constantly in a struggle to get teams to work together. Some years it works out for you, some years it doesn't. On top of that, there is a reason that these kids are going to JUCO's in the first place. I'm not saying they are bad kids or anything. Some of them are, other go the JUCO route simply b/c their grades aren't on par w/ what they need to play D-I hoops. So you have to ask yourself when you bring in one of these JUCO kids. Has he grown up after 2 years at a JUCO? Are his grades going to be better? Or is this something that is constantly going to loom over this kid? Look, I understand the desire by everyone to press the panic button just because our team hasn't looked as good this year as it has in past years. I get it. But if you go take a look at the Can't boards right now. With all of their JUCO's and transfers and high risk guys. You will find a pretty significant group of fans that are pressing the panic button there as well. Rethinking their strategy and wondering if they shouldn't be relying less on JUCO's and transfers and more on guys they can recruit right out of high school. This street runs both ways. Just think about that before you get too far down KD's throat.

[GoZips]

Can't's formula is better. They have the rings to prove it. There is no such thing as a rebuilding year over there btw. They just bring in more talent.

Two things need to be said. First, in addition to bringing in a lot of JUCO and high school talent, previous Can't coaches routinely ran off kids when they could replace them with better talent. There is no guarantee at Can't that you will be on the team later this year let alone next season.Second, while KD has a solid plan for upgrading and improving the Zips, the rub is that KD could begone at the end of any season. Big bucks talk loud. A few of you are old enough to rememberwhat happened when Bob Huggins left forCincinnati. Eight sorry years under Coleman Crawford followed by eight more sorry years under Dan Hipsher.Either method works. The athletic administration has to follow coach A with an equally good coach B. Hiring a Crawford or a Hipsher guarantees a return to the pits.I want a coach who has a fire in his belly to win. A coach that hates losing is the best. When theAD hires a women's coach who detests losing, then and only then will that program turn around.Nice guys, and nice gals, finish last.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Second, while KD has a solid plan for upgrading and improving the Zips, the rub is that KD could begone at the end of any season. Big bucks talk loud.

So he's going to leave Humpty, Nik, Zeke...all that he's built over the last few years to take a job for $110,000 more at another slightly-better-paying mid-major? Or is UCLA going to open it's wallet for a guy who's never been to the Big Dance? It doesn't work that way.A thread involving Keith Dambrot leaving UA anytime in the near future is groundless. The Huggins analogy holds absolutely no water. The only way Dambrot leaves is if some Athletic Department clown makes a bigger f-up than telling the NCAA that the soccer fields will be unplayable a week down the road. Then again...maybe it is possible...

[Captain Kangaroo]

Look, I understand the desire by everyone to press the panic button just because our team hasn't looked as good this year as it has in past years.

No one is pushing a panic button. Simple fact are being stated - The Zips haven't won a MAC championship in basketball. K.e.n.t. has a sack full over the past decade. If you want to debate that fact, have at it.The Zips have not won and OOC basketball games that capture the NCAA selection committees fancy, nor "Joe Akron's" fancy. If you want to debate that fact, have at it.That is all that's been said. It strikes me as odd that Coach Dambrot can come out after a game and say (after the Pitt game) "Anyone who's happy with a 20-point loss is a loser." But if a Zips fan says "Man, that 20-point loss sucked." That guy -1.) Wants the coach fired2.) Doesn't appreciate what we have as a basketball program3.) <insert irrelevant Zips football analogy here>Just stop it with all the hyper-sensitivity over the minorest critique of anything Dambrot does. Everyone loves the guy and he's doing a great job. But if K.e.n.t. goes to the NCAA's again this season, and we sit at home, Zips fans have a right to be disappointed. It isn't wrong for fans to want, or expect the same things the Zips coaching staff does.

[GP1]

Just stop it with all the hyper-sensitivity over the minorest critique of anything Dambrot does. Everyone loves the guy and he's doing a great job. But if K.e.n.t. goes to the NCAA's again this season, and we sit at home, Zips fans have a right to be disappointed. It isn't wrong for fans to want, or expect the same things the Zips coaching staff does.

Excellent post CK. Especially this last part. I was winding up to something similar myself. Thanks for saving me the time. I'm sure there are others that feel the same way.

[Quickzips]

CK I guess we just disagree as far as pressing the panic button. Personally, I see people look at the early disappointments of this team and the response by some people that we should make a fundamental change to our recruiting startegy and I see that as pressing the panic button. I've been as disappointed as anyone watching Penno's miracle and the throttling we got from Can't last season. And I certainly don't think KD's strategies are untouchable. There are quite a few things I would like to see improved on or done differently (free throw shooting, playing time for Swiech, more emphasis on our post game). Our recruiting strategy just isn't one of them.

[CraftyMFer]

It's time the Zips recruited an "at risk" player?Funny that he mentions Bosley, Tarver and Hollingsworthless. How many championships, NIT wins and NCAA appearances did those guys garner? Z-E-R-O.

I guess you are not counting the banner at JAR that says 1998 MAC East Champions

[GoZips88]

It's time the Zips recruited an "at risk" player?Funny that he mentions Bosley, Tarver and Hollingsworthless. How many championships, NIT wins and NCAA appearances did those guys garner? Z-E-R-O.

I guess you are not counting the banner at JAR that says 1998 MAC East Champions

I'm not a fan of the JUCO route. Have my fingers crossed that we can develop the right mix of character, talent, and experience going the 4-year route. That being said, our banners are too far and few in between.

[ZachTheZip]

Personally, I'm glad the Zips aren't a team with more arrests than rebounds. How can anyone honestly say that they prefer to cheer for a college team where more media coverage comes from the crime watch than the sports section?