non conference schedule...Elton's take...

[mivid12]

"... they will play SIX teams ranked 250 or worse with four of them being 300 or worse including Malone, a non Division I team."i agree, Malone shouldn't even be a scrimmage...can'ts schedule by contrast is gutsy...pains me to say thathttp://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/in...hedule_lac.html

[Quickzips]

Not much information in there that hasn't been hashed out on here already. I'm as big a Dambrot fan as anyone, but at some point in time this program has to go out and prove that we are for real. Obviously it won't be this year. I just hope the excuses end next year.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Compare the Zips' Schedule to Fellow NE Ohio-based 2009 NCAA Tourney Participant CSU

[ZachTheZip]

If your RPI and SOS is high, they'll tell you your record isn't good enough. If you win 26 games, they'll tell you you didn't play enough top opponents. That's what being a mid-major is about. Your entire conference is a slate of cupcakes, which kills your SOS like it did to Miami, and you don't have enough non-conference games to schedule lots of top teams without sacrificing home games and wins.All Akron can do is win the MAC. Only a fool believes that any team playing in such a crappy league as the MAC can get an at-large bid.

[Quickzips]

If your RPI and SOS is high, they'll tell you your record isn't good enough. If you win 26 games, they'll tell you you didn't play enough top opponents. That's what being a mid-major is about. Your entire conference is a slate of cupcakes, which kills your SOS like it did to Miami, and you don't have enough non-conference games to schedule lots of top teams without sacrificing home games and wins.All Akron can do is win the MAC. Only a fool believes that any team playing in such a crappy league as the MAC can get an at-large bid.

I absolutely disagree. Plenty of mid-major programs are able to put together schedules that allow them to obtain a high enough RPI, SOS and overall record to be in the at-large consideration. Miami is a piss poor example IMO. They don't have nearly the kind of talent on that team to take them out on the road and play that many tough games and expect to win. They try to rely on their slow down style of play to keep things close, but against the big boys it doesn't really work. Plenty of teams (Xavier, Gonzaga, Butler, Memphis) are able to put together a talented enough team that they can go out and compete with the big boys on their own terms. Akron may or may not have that kind of talent yet, but we're at least close enough that we should be giving it a try. Maybe not throwing down a gauntlet of a schedule, but something better than Malone, North Carolina A&M and The University of Phoenix Online. This continued poor scheduling is the one major blemish on an otherwise solid program. It doesn't HAVE to be all about winning the MAC.

[ZachTheZip]

The number of Mid-major at-large bids this since 2004:2004: 122005: 92006: 82007: 62008: 62009: 4This pattern isn't going to end any time soon. The time of mid-major at-large bids is ending.

[Captain Kangaroo]

The number of Mid-major at-large bids this since 2004:2004: 122005: 92006: 82007: 62008: 62009: 4This pattern isn't going to end any time soon. The time of mid-major at-large bids is ending.

So Rosa Parks should have sat at the back of the bus and kept her mouth shut? Sure...why fight an injustice...just roll with it. The only way to reverse that trend is to fight it. To schedule each season with the goal of getting an at-large if you slip up in the MAC tourney. If you schedule weak, and subsequently resign yourself to winning the MAC tourney as your sole NCAA bid hope, then you have no reason to ever complain regarding your chances of getting an at-large. It isn't the NCAA keeping you out, it is your own scheduling policy.CSU has placed themselves in a position to merit an at-large. I don't expect CSU to win the games necessary to receive such a bid, but they have a shot. With Gary Waters...a better shot than most.We have two mid-major scheduling examples to follow this upcoming basketball season. CSU's and UA's. Bookmark this thread and re-visit in in mid-March 2010. That's when you'll see which was best.

[ZachTheZip]

CSU plays in a better league. They only had 4 conference games against 200+ RPI teams last year. They also play Butler three times.Akron doesn't have a Butler to play twice or thrice a year, and we had 6 conference games against 200+ RPI teams. Therefor, to schedule on the level of CSU, we need to play three more top 25 teams to simulate playing a Butler, and then two more on top of that to cancel out playing against EMU and NIU, which are worse than any team in the Horizon League. That's 5 top-25 teams, likely all on the road, replacing our 5 worst non-conference opponents just to keep up with CSU playing in the Horizon instead of the MAC. And then on top of that, if you want to schedule your non-conference games like they do to give yourself a shot at a non-existant at-large spot, you need to schedule four MORE top-25 teams. That's 9 top-25 teams to keep up with CSU. Maybe one of them is actually at home if we're lucky. That only leaves 5 non-conference games left to play with and a road BracketBuster. And then you have to win at least half of those games and win at least 13 MAC games to get to 20 wins. And then you have to make it to the conference tournament finals because if you don't, they will tell you that you're not good enough in a tournament setting to be worthy of an at-large bid. And even then, with 22 wins your record isn't good enough for a mid-major and you had a losing record against top-25 teams so you're on the outside of the bubble looking in and you'll have to hope that Can't State's Athletic Director will make an arguement for his hated rival to get national attention and a spot in the NCAA tournament.That is what it takes to schedule like CSU will this season. And even then you're not guaranteed anything.

[MDZip]

If you're in a potential one-bid league and you believe you have the talent to compete you owe it to your team to at least let them take a shot at it. I'm not sure about the down-side, maybe if you lose all your OOC games, perhaps your team loses heart and takes their league shot down with it, but hopefully you're a good enough coach to overcome that (or maybe your team really isn't good enough). But the upside and notoriety (and possible confidence boost) of knocking off even one of the big boys might be worth it. As an example, look at Coppin State's, a tiny MEAC school (which is definitely a one bid league), OOC schedule from last year:at No. 10 Purdue L 66-46 1-1 at No. 23 Kansas L 85-53 1-2 at Richmond L 78-67 1-3 at Dayton L 73-56 1-6 at Wisconsin L 57-46 1-7 at No. 14 Syracuse L 82-71 1-8 vs. Colorado* L 80-63 1-9 vs. Pepperdine* L 58-56 1-10 vs. George Washington* W 59-53 2-10 at No. 4 Oklahoma L 93-62 2-11 at Missouri L 88-55 2-12 I took out a few of their lesser opponents and they lost every one of these games but one, but you know what? When it came to the conference race they were right in the thick of it (and you may remember them as one of the 15 seeds that knocked out a #2 - Iowa State - several years ago). They didn't win it this year but they are always competitive in conference and they schedule this way every year. They truly are an anyone, anywhere type of a team. Now I am not suggesting that the Zips adopt this particular model or schedule but a few more high profile teams wouldn't be a bad thing (even if we have to go there). I trust Keith and his philosophies on scheduling but I also think we might have an at-large shot over the next few years but not without a challenging schedule. Even with the MAC bringing down the SOS you can get an at-large with the right OOC schedule (and wins). Ask Butler, the Horizon isn't much different than the MAC and the more notoriety Butler gets, the more better players get interested and enroll. I thin Akron has a golden opportunity to build on last year here. I'd hate to see it go to waste.

[Z.I.P.]

CSU plays in a better league. They only had 4 conference games against 200+ RPI teams last year. They also play Butler three times.Akron doesn't have a Butler to play twice or thrice a year, and we had 6 conference games against 200+ RPI teams. Therefor, to schedule on the level of CSU, we need to play three more top 25 teams to simulate playing a Butler, and then two more on top of that to cancel out playing against EMU and NIU, which are worse than any team in the Horizon League. That's 5 top-25 teams, likely all on the road, replacing our 5 worst non-conference opponents just to keep up with CSU playing in the Horizon instead of the MAC. And then on top of that, if you want to schedule your non-conference games like they do to give yourself a shot at a non-existant at-large spot, you need to schedule four MORE top-25 teams. That's 9 top-25 teams to keep up with CSU. Maybe one of them is actually at home if we're lucky. That only leaves 5 non-conference games left to play with and a road BracketBuster. And then you have to win at least half of those games and win at least 13 MAC games to get to 20 wins. And then you have to make it to the conference tournament finals because if you don't, they will tell you that you're not good enough in a tournament setting to be worthy of an at-large bid. And even then, with 22 wins your record isn't good enough for a mid-major and you had a losing record against top-25 teams so you're on the outside of the bubble looking in and you'll have to hope that Can't State's Athletic Director will make an arguement for his hated rival to get national attention and a spot in the NCAA tournament.That is what it takes to schedule like CSU will this season. And even then you're not guaranteed anything.

Between those last two opinions, I'm going with Cap'n Kangaroo's two cents. It seems that an exaggerated sense of hopelessness can lead to throwing in the towel a bit too early. Even if our chances are slim, there are still some mid-major teams getting at-large bids, and making it into the top-25 every year. We may in fact, HAVE to be a top-25 team to get an at-large, so let's make that our goal, regardless of how we do between January and March. Frankly -- this is one of the reasons why I dislike conference basketball games in comparison to the non-conference (please don't call it the "pre-season"). They sometimes seem anti-climactic.

[Quickzips]

CSU plays in a better league. They only had 4 conference games against 200+ RPI teams last year. They also play Butler three times.Akron doesn't have a Butler to play twice or thrice a year, and we had 6 conference games against 200+ RPI teams. Therefor, to schedule on the level of CSU, we need to play three more top 25 teams to simulate playing a Butler, and then two more on top of that to cancel out playing against EMU and NIU, which are worse than any team in the Horizon League. That's 5 top-25 teams, likely all on the road, replacing our 5 worst non-conference opponents just to keep up with CSU playing in the Horizon instead of the MAC. And then on top of that, if you want to schedule your non-conference games like they do to give yourself a shot at a non-existant at-large spot, you need to schedule four MORE top-25 teams. That's 9 top-25 teams to keep up with CSU. Maybe one of them is actually at home if we're lucky. That only leaves 5 non-conference games left to play with and a road BracketBuster. And then you have to win at least half of those games and win at least 13 MAC games to get to 20 wins. And then you have to make it to the conference tournament finals because if you don't, they will tell you that you're not good enough in a tournament setting to be worthy of an at-large bid. And even then, with 22 wins your record isn't good enough for a mid-major and you had a losing record against top-25 teams so you're on the outside of the bubble looking in and you'll have to hope that Can't State's Athletic Director will make an arguement for his hated rival to get national attention and a spot in the NCAA tournament.That is what it takes to schedule like CSU will this season. And even then you're not guaranteed anything.

I don't follow this logic either. So because we don't play in a top mid-major league we shouldn't worry about scheduling a challenging, tournament building out of conference schedule? If anything I would think the lack of quality in our league would be MORE of an incentive to go out there and schedule some good, quality programs in our OOC schedule. If you know you're going to take a hit in the RPI and SOS when your conference schedule rolls around you should do everything you possibly can to mitigate that problem with as high an RPI and SOS as you possibly can in your OOC schedule.I'm not saying that the overall craptasticness of the MAC schedule (praticularly the MAC West) isn't a problem, but you don't just give up, throw your hands in the air and say "ohh well" just because of that.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Alexander Compares UA, K.e.n.t. and CSU (novel idea)

[ZachTheZip]

I don't follow this logic either. So because we don't play in a top mid-major league we shouldn't worry about scheduling a challenging, tournament building out of conference schedule? If anything I would think the lack of quality in our league would be MORE of an incentive to go out there and schedule some good, quality programs in our OOC schedule. If you know you're going to take a hit in the RPI and SOS when your conference schedule rolls around you should do everything you possibly can to mitigate that problem with as high an RPI and SOS as you possibly can in your OOC schedule.I'm not saying that the overall craptasticness of the MAC schedule (praticularly the MAC West) isn't a problem, but you don't just give up, throw your hands in the air and say "ohh well" just because of that.

If your plan is to put yourself in the position for an at-large bid, that is how you need to schedule. Anything less than that and it's not enough to impress the committee. If that's the type of schedule you want to play, fine. I believe that the odds are too stacked against us to make something like that feasible. It sacrifices most of the home games, and it doesn't prepare the team to win the MAC tournament (there's a much better chance to get into the tournament here than by hoping for an at-large bid) than playing as many teams that play the same style as the MAC teams as possible.The logic behind our schedule is that since an at-large bid is so difficult to get, we're better off creating a great record over a span of a few years while dominating the MAC, and then moving on from there. It's a slow process, but it's how those top mid-major teams got to where they are, and it's how Akron will get there. The fans are way too impatient.

[Quickzips]

If your plan is to put yourself in the position for an at-large bid, that is how you need to schedule. Anything less than that and it's not enough to impress the committee. If that's the type of schedule you want to play, fine. I believe that the odds are too stacked against us to make something like that feasible.

Again, I disagree here. The odds may be stacked against us. They probably are. But to say that this means you shouldn't at least give it your best try is ridiculous.

It sacrifices most of the home games

The home games against Malone, North Carolina A&T and St. Francis that noone really cares to attend. Yep, those are a real big program builder.

and it doesn't prepare the team to win the MAC tournament (there's a much better chance to get into the tournament here than by hoping for an at-large bid) than playing as many teams that play the same style as the MAC teams as possible.

We can debate round and round about whether there is a better chance of getting an at-large bid than there is winning the MAC Tourney. I fail to see how teams like Malone, North Carolina A&T and St. Francis "play the same style as the MAC teams." The fact is their style is to try to keep it close early, start laying down in the middle of the first half and roll over completely in the 2nd. Now I realize that describes a few of the MAC West teams, but really, if our goal is simply to win the MAC tourney how is that getting us prepared in any way shape or form???

The logic behind our schedule is that since an at-large bid is so difficult to get, we're better off creating a great record over a span of a few years while dominating the MAC, and then moving on from there. It's a slow process, but it's how those top mid-major teams got to where they are, and it's how Akron will get there. The fans are way too impatient.

Absolutely false. Teams like Gonzaga, Butler, Memphis, Xavier have gotten to where they are by challenging themselves. By going on the road and taking on the big boys. They know they won't win every game, but they give themselves a chance and if/when they do win a big game it garners a lot of attention for their program. The elite mid-majors didn't get where they are by continuously scheduling crappy OOC games just to boost their win totals. They got there by making the calculated decision to take their talented teams out against more highly talented teams and get better. I used to be able to buy into the "slow process" mumbo-jumbo. Especially last year when we had such a young team, but I just don't anymore.

[Captain Kangaroo]

The PD's Bill Livingston wrote a column today describing an excerpt from LeBron's new book. In it James admits to smoking some pot in HS (not the purpose of this post, so please refrain from any related commentary or start a different LeBron thread elsewhere).The column itself has nothing to do with this thread, but how Livingston closes it is very applicable to the Zips basketball scheduling.Livingston writes: "As a boy, he [LeBron] was always disappointed when Akron's name was almost never on maps of the USA in his geography book. He set out to make the city proud. He did just that, and also changed the landscape of possibility here."Like his former player, Keith Dambrot has the ability to change the "landscape of possibility." In his case, it is for his mid-major's ability to earn an at-large bid. To do so he needs to schedule tougher. Otherwise, complaints regarding the NCAA's at-large selections ring hollow.

The logic behind our schedule is that since an at-large bid is so difficult to get, we're better off creating a great record over a span of a few years while dominating the MAC, and then moving on from there...The fans are way too impatient.

A "few" seasons? This is KD's 6th season, not his 3rd. He's reeled off 4 consecutive 20-win seasons. He's brought in a Top 50 player in Zeke. How long do fans wait for a top-flight schedule before they can officially become impatient? 7 years? 10 years? The Mountain West Conference (football) is challenging the BCS. Not by complaints, but by action. If they continue with an indomitable purpose, they will ultimately succeed. It can be done. I'd love to see UA attempt to reverse the NCAA at-large selection trend. Keith Dambrot is a gifted coach...one of only a few who could pull it off. Another one is Gary Waters....and he has a head start.

[zippyman23]

The thing that disappoints me the most is that the schedule is a significant downgrade from last year's schedule.Even if an at-large bid is long-shot, a better schedule puts us in a better position to get a better seed than a #13, which greatly increases the chances of winning a tournament game.

[mivid12]

The thing that disappoints me the most is that the schedule is a significant downgrade from last year's schedule.Even if an at-large bid is long-shot, a better schedule puts us in a better position to get a better seed than a #13, which greatly increases the chances of winning a tournament game.

it's my opine the non conf schedule is boredline gutless

[Zipsrifle]

Wow, refreshing to see a thread with many good thoughts and not much name calling. Put me in the camp of "I wish we had a harder schedule, but not too much harder". Why? Well, after getting totally screwed a few years ago with 26 wins I honestly feel that our only ticket is to win the MAC. On the other hand, I don't want to go to the JAR to watch Malone, are you kidding me? How are our guys supposed to get better if we are playing schools of that caliber? I also don't want to play MSU away and get our doors blown off for the first game either. Can we get an at large bid and get in if we play a tough schedule? Absolutely. I just think we would have to pull off quite a few big upsets that get national attention. If we pull off one big upset and lose the rest we probably will still get passed over for some rediculous reason and nobody outside of Akron will care. Deep down, I just believe that money talks and BS walks, and we don't make anyone money right now. I'm not saying that we can't pull off a bunch of major upsets....just the odds are against it. I think we have the caliber of players and a team attitude that will allow us to knock off some stiff competition in the non-conference part of the schedule. We beat FSU in the NIT two years ago, we almost knocked off Dayton and had Gonzaga on the ropes for a while. KD and the guys know what it takes, now lets challenge them with the ability to pull off a few moderately big wins. They probably won't be enough to get us an at large bid, but I think it will substantially improve our ability to win the MAC and make it into the Tourney. Keeping up this slow progression and keeping 20 wins might be the trick. All I know is that we have Zeke now and some good experience for the rest of the team. I expect next years schedule to be a doozie as that will be our shot to take down some of the big boys.

[GJGood]

The thing that disappoints me the most is that the schedule is a significant downgrade from last year's schedule.Even if an at-large bid is long-shot, a better schedule puts us in a better position to get a better seed than a #13, which greatly increases the chances of winning a tournament game.

While I'm hoping to see better, or at least tougher, non-conference schedules in the future as the program continues to improve, I certainly don't think that this years schedule is a downgrade from last years. Playing in the Glenn Wilkes tournament was a good move and they are playing Drake and NC State, plus this team scheduled Texas A&M and Wyoming. Last year it was Pitt, Niagara, and Winthrop. It amy not be a significant upgrade this year but I don't think its a significant downgrade either.Plus, I have a hunch that Valpo is going to be greatly improved this year as well as Rhode Island not being too shabby either. Also, with a good season the BracketBusters opponent could be an RPI boost as well if we can pull off a tough road win.

[akzips10]

The issue that I think we may be overlooking is the fact that it is hard to schedule tough games for a school like the zips. For example scheduling someone like Ohio State, seems attractive, in state rivalry, travel distance minimal. But what does a top conference school like Ohio State or Pitt or Insert Big Name here, have to gain by playing a team like Akron. Of course everyone is thinking well they have to play someone. If you are part of a big conference team you gain nothing by beating a mid major, so why play one of the toughest. Im sure our reputation of being pretty tough at home as well as able to play with almost anyone is out, so we are going to be a tough sell for a schedule filler. Who is going to want to come in the jar, nobody big. Why, because its a lose lose situation for the big teams. Ohio state would get just as much out of beating YSU than Akron when it came to selection Sunday for the most part. If they win nothing is noted, but if they lose Akron goes right into that key losses column. Im not saying its right or fair its just common sense, if we would have beat Pitt last year how many times do you think they would have heard about that when they were bidding for a 1 seed. I think we have to give away the farm to schedule a lot of teams by traveling all over and getting not much in return. Im not saying we should shy away from trying, I just think we should understand the difficulties involved in scheduling a top mid-major team we have become.

[zippyman23]

The thing that disappoints me the most is that the schedule is a significant downgrade from last year's schedule.Even if an at-large bid is long-shot, a better schedule puts us in a better position to get a better seed than a #13, which greatly increases the chances of winning a tournament game.

While I'm hoping to see better, or at least tougher, non-conference schedules in the future as the program continues to improve, I certainly don't think that this years schedule is a downgrade from last years. Playing in the Glenn Wilkes tournament was a good move and they are playing Drake and NC State, plus this team scheduled Texas A&M and Wyoming. Last year it was Pitt, Niagara, and Winthrop. It amy not be a significant upgrade this year but I don't think its a significant downgrade either.Plus, I have a hunch that Valpo is going to be greatly improved this year as well as Rhode Island not being too shabby either. Also, with a good season the BracketBusters opponent could be an RPI boost as well if we can pull off a tough road win.

We lose three Top 50 RPI teams from last schedulePitt - 2Dayton - 27VCU - 50The top three teams added to the schedule for this year to replace them.Texas A&M - 36Wyoming - 100NC State - 111That is a pretty obvious downgrade in my eyes.

[Quickzips]

The issue that I think we may be overlooking is the fact that it is hard to schedule tough games for a school like the zips. For example scheduling someone like Ohio State, seems attractive, in state rivalry, travel distance minimal. But what does a top conference school like Ohio State or Pitt or Insert Big Name here, have to gain by playing a team like Akron. Of course everyone is thinking well they have to play someone. If you are part of a big conference team you gain nothing by beating a mid major, so why play one of the toughest. Im sure our reputation of being pretty tough at home as well as able to play with almost anyone is out, so we are going to be a tough sell for a schedule filler. Who is going to want to come in the jar, nobody big. Why, because its a lose lose situation for the big teams. Ohio state would get just as much out of beating YSU than Akron when it came to selection Sunday for the most part. If they win nothing is noted, but if they lose Akron goes right into that key losses column. Im not saying its right or fair its just common sense, if we would have beat Pitt last year how many times do you think they would have heard about that when they were bidding for a 1 seed. I think we have to give away the farm to schedule a lot of teams by traveling all over and getting not much in return. Im not saying we should shy away from trying, I just think we should understand the difficulties involved in scheduling a top mid-major team we have become.

Again, I have to disagree. We don't really have the reputaion of being "able to play with almost anyone." We haven't really PLAYED anyone to get that kind of a reputation. We don't have anything that even remotely looks like a signature win. Close games against Gonzaga and Nevada don't really count. I don't think it is at all that teams are afraid to play us. It is a matter of KD trying to stand on principal and not play teams who won't come back to the JAR. Standing on principal is all fine and dandy, but at a certain point you have to do what is best for the program. We're getting closer and closer to the point where this type of scheduling is actually a hinderance to the program. If we aren't there already.

[Zip Watcher]

The conference has had 4 at large bids in the last 30 years, maybe longer or ever.Scheduling for at-large consideration in the current conference is not going to guarantee anything. The schedule should prepare the team to do what it did last year: Win the MAC Tournament and move on to the NCAA. It should also help the team peak at the right time to compete at a high level once there.Last year Miami put a scare into UCLA @ Pawlie Pavilion & played 4 or 5 other top 30 teams. What did it get them exactly? I'm not sure, but I do remember seeing them get pounded in the second half of the MAC Quarters @ the Q and sent home by Your 2009 MAC Tournament Champion Akron Zips.In 2001-02 Ball State went out to Hawaii and played an incredible weekend, BEATING 2 top 10 (Kansas & UCLA) teams and playing close with a 3rd (Duke). The next week, they entered the rankings at 10 or 11 .. later on in March, were they in the NCAA tournament? By at-large? No. Automatic Birth, No. They went 7-9 in conference and ended up way under .500 for the year. They did get an NIT birth and add victories over St. Joes & LSU before getting waxed by South Carolina.My point? I think the schedule is ok. We get lots of home games, which means some $$$ for the program. We aren't going to take a complete pounding in multiple places without hope of a return game. We have some nice neutral court games against NCST & Drake, and a roadie to College Station. Projecting the RPI of these things now is a complete waste of time. A couple of years ago, Wyoming was supposed to compete in the MWC, came into the JAR, left with a 30+ point beatdown, and ended up in the cellar of the conference.KD needs to schedule to grow the program. The trend has been great so far. 5 seasons, 3 post-season births, a MAC Tourney Title, and 1 NCAA appearance. As a Zips Hoops fan above all other teams, I trust KD because I see the results. The Zips are defending MAC Champs, have all but one (albeit significant) player returning, and add a top-50 recruit & 7' center. I refuse to diminish how great March was by searching for something to complain about in July.Go Zips! B) B)

[Blue & Gold]

Btw, I just want to say that, personally, I like playing Malone. For the sheer novelty of it, I enjoy playing one of our backyard little brothers - be it Malone, Walsh or Mount Union - once a year. It gives us a break, it's a thrill for them, and, I think, can foster a lot of greater-Akron community support. Those guys will remember playing Akron for the rest of their lives, and, if we treat them with respect, we may just win some additional Zip fans from those respective schools.

[GP1]

I like the way the Zips schedule. The Zips are in a perfect situation. They are about to become the best team in a bad conference. Winning lots of games, winning the conference and going to the NCAAs with a win every now and then spells a fantastic program and enjoyment for the fans. I don't know how getting smashed a couple of times a season will make the program better. In fact, it could prove the program is done growing and maybe not the stud many like to believe it is. It is a stud for a MAC program, but it ends about there. I think we worry to much about this scheduling issue. Just enjoy the winning.