Talented players

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

As the JDB era has come to a close, I have noticed several posters who repeatedly insist that this is a talented group. Some believe that this group of players is talented enough to win right away with the right coaching. While I'm not a talent evaluator, like most of us, I'm a little more skeptical that we have that much talent on the roster. So, I'd like to see a discussion with some specifics about where this group is talented and where we have needs. I'll start by taking away the obvious ones, the guys who have received strong praise here all year, Wagner and Nicely. Wagner is a ball hawk and appears to be in on every play. It's almost as if by magic to see how often he's in the scrum. Nicely looks pretty good too, especially for a true freshman who JD clearly wanted NOT to see the field this year. Now, where are the rest of the talented players we expect to spark UA's resurgence next year? Until I see some discussion of the talent on this roster, generic assertions that this is a very talented roster mean nothing to me.

[RootforRoo44]

As much as i love Zips football.....who cares?It's so depressing, does anyone even want to talk about this mess that is our football program when we have so much good to talk about in terms of basketball and futbol?

[GP1]

As the JDB era has come to a close, I have noticed several posters who repeatedly insist that this is a talented group. Some believe that this group of players is talented enough to win right away with the right coaching. While I'm not a talent evaluator, like most of us, I'm a little more skeptical that we have that much talent on the roster. So, I'd like to see a discussion with some specifics about where this group is talented and where we have needs. I'll start by taking away the obvious ones, the guys who have received strong praise here all year, Wagner and Nicely. Wagner is a ball hawk and appears to be in on every play. It's almost as if by magic to see how often he's in the scrum. Nicely looks pretty good too, especially for a true freshman who JD clearly wanted NOT to see the field this year. Now, where are the rest of the talented players we expect to spark UA's resurgence next year? Until I see some discussion of the talent on this roster, generic assertions that this is a very talented roster mean nothing to me.

All of them.The overall athletic talent on this team is good enough to win in this sorry league if it wasn't for the mismanagement of the coach. The problem is the talent was used in the wrong way because JD's strategies were destined for failure. Using different schemes will bring out the talent in the team. It happens frequently. A good swift kick in the ass from the new coach will do wonders for the kids as well.When Owens was fired, my biggest concern was the lack of talent on the team (Owens would have had one more 6-5 year under his belt and then the wheels would have fallen off). JD had to come in and clean house. Most were so bad they couldn't even make Ashland win their conference after transferring there. The new guy won't have to do that. JD left enough talent behind to win in the MAC....the next guy needs to win sooner rather than later.

[Zipsrifle]

As the JDB era has come to a close, I have noticed several posters who repeatedly insist that this is a talented group. Some believe that this group of players is talented enough to win right away with the right coaching. While I'm not a talent evaluator, like most of us, I'm a little more skeptical that we have that much talent on the roster. So, I'd like to see a discussion with some specifics about where this group is talented and where we have needs. I'll start by taking away the obvious ones, the guys who have received strong praise here all year, Wagner and Nicely. Wagner is a ball hawk and appears to be in on every play. It's almost as if by magic to see how often he's in the scrum. Nicely looks pretty good too, especially for a true freshman who JD clearly wanted NOT to see the field this year. Now, where are the rest of the talented players we expect to spark UA's resurgence next year? Until I see some discussion of the talent on this roster, generic assertions that this is a very talented roster mean nothing to me.

All of them.The overall athletic talent on this team is good enough to win in this sorry league if it wasn't for the mismanagement of the coach. The problem is the talent was used in the wrong way because JD's strategies were destined for failure. Using different schemes will bring out the talent in the team. It happens frequently. A good swift kick in the ass from the new coach will do wonders for the kids as well.When Owens was fired, my biggest concern was the lack of talent on the team (Owens would have had one more 6-5 year under his belt and then the wheels would have fallen off). JD had to come in and clean house. Most were so bad they couldn't even make Ashland win their conference after transferring there. The new guy won't have to do that. JD left enough talent behind to win in the MAC....the next guy needs to win sooner rather than later.

I hope you're right. It makes me wonder why JD did better with LO guys than his own?

[Zipmeister]

As much as i love Zips football.....who cares?It's so depressing, does anyone even want to talk about this mess that is our football program when we have so much good to talk about in terms of basketball and futbol?

I have to go with Root on this one. Our time may be better spent talking about the talent on the rifle team and club baseball.

[zipseuph]

As much as i love Zips football.....who cares?It's so depressing, does anyone even want to talk about this mess that is our football program when we have so much good to talk about in terms of basketball and futbol?

I have to go with Root on this one. Our time may be better spent talking about the talent on the rifle team and club baseball.

if you wanna talk football go ahead and talk football. if not then go ahead and don't read this. seems kinda easy to me

[Dr Z]

Why would you come into the football forum if you didn't want to talk football?

[scottditzen]

I'm certainly no talent evaluator. I can't say whether our players are better than anyone else in the leage. And this is a league I cannot figure out.....by most accounts it is not a good one. I haven't been amazed by anyone's offense this year. Every team in the MAC looks undersized on defense. I will say, however, that I've absolutely hated the offensive scheme since Getsy left. I remember the blue/gold scrimmage in the new fieldhouse and thinking it looked very high schoolish. And I've hated the defense even more, who hasn't...so inconsistent. Yeah I'd rather be enjoying the soccer team, they're awesome. But I desperately want our football team to find an identity under some new coaching. In all my years of watching the Zips, it would be truly amazing to have a team with both a prolific offense and a consistent, tough defense. Great offense...solid defense.....has that ever happened here?

[RACER]

torrence was wasted on the bench this year.every rb we have fumbled numerous times,but he was in jd doghouse for some reason.i think having new coach gives each player a new start to impress the coaches.we should be ok at rb,and qb next year.not great ,but good enough to win mac games.the biggest question mark is the o-line.the did a great job of run blocking when kennedy,johnson,allen played the previous season.maybe teams were stacking the box this year, but still no excuse for the way the o-line played.we still need to find 1-2 wr for next year.their are a few guys on defense that played great,but we need help at the db postion.we need some db's to step up next year.we are so small at the db/ lb positions.we have never been able to put a pass rush on teams even when we blitzed.i think part of the dl problem is bad coaching.guys have no idea how rush the passer.

[goodthts]

I'm certainly no talent evaluator. I can't say whether our players are better than anyone else in the leage. And this is a league I cannot figure out.....by most accounts it is not a good one. I haven't been amazed by anyone's offense this year. Every team in the MAC looks undersized on defense. I will say, however, that I've absolutely hated the offensive scheme since Getsy left. I remember the blue/gold scrimmage in the new fieldhouse and thinking it looked very high schoolish. And I've hated the defense even more, who hasn't...so inconsistent. Yeah I'd rather be enjoying the soccer team, they're awesome. But I desperately want our football team to find an identity under some new coaching. In all my years of watching the Zips, it would be truly amazing to have a team with both a prolific offense and a consistent, tough defense. Great offense...solid defense.....has that ever happened here?

Many posters on here make a point that JD failed because of all the injuries and bad breaks. THIS YEAR, you could argue that point. The previous three years this point is not valid. His record never improved from 2005. That is four years of mediocre, at best, football. You could argue his previous 3 recruiting classes were poor due to the Rubber Bowl looming over the football landscape. That may also be true, but still not an excuse. The coaches from Ohio U, Central Mich and Bowling Green had to recruit from the same players' pool with equal or sub-par facilities as backdrops. Yet those 3 programs have succeeded beyond expectations. Therefore, what is the "X-factor" between being a winning program and a consistently poor program. I agree with scottditzen that JD's teams never seemed to acquire an identity. I think our coach never stressed any over-riding focus on identity. The teams was a pass-happy team one game, then a run-focused team another.The next coach needs to create a team we can consistently identify with every year. I want to know our offense will use not only RB's, but also Fullbacks as runners. I want to see passes to TE's, WR's and RB's. Why cant the team have an offense that doesnt look always confused!I want to again see our defense have shut-down Cornerbacks/Safeties (i.e. Hixon). We need more players like Brian Wagners and Amondo Sewells. Slow players with heart should be passed over. Transfers from Ohio State and Iowa should be passed by. I am so sick of having other teams' throwaways.Our football players currently here deserve to win. The fans of this college desereve to see an entertaining product. What type of football would you like to see next year?PS....go Zips soccer, rifle, volleyball, track, basketball, baseball and softball!!!

[GP1]

As the JDB era has come to a close, I have noticed several posters who repeatedly insist that this is a talented group. Some believe that this group of players is talented enough to win right away with the right coaching. While I'm not a talent evaluator, like most of us, I'm a little more skeptical that we have that much talent on the roster. So, I'd like to see a discussion with some specifics about where this group is talented and where we have needs. I'll start by taking away the obvious ones, the guys who have received strong praise here all year, Wagner and Nicely. Wagner is a ball hawk and appears to be in on every play. It's almost as if by magic to see how often he's in the scrum. Nicely looks pretty good too, especially for a true freshman who JD clearly wanted NOT to see the field this year. Now, where are the rest of the talented players we expect to spark UA's resurgence next year? Until I see some discussion of the talent on this roster, generic assertions that this is a very talented roster mean nothing to me.

All of them.The overall athletic talent on this team is good enough to win in this sorry league if it wasn't for the mismanagement of the coach. The problem is the talent was used in the wrong way because JD's strategies were destined for failure. Using different schemes will bring out the talent in the team. It happens frequently. A good swift kick in the ass from the new coach will do wonders for the kids as well.When Owens was fired, my biggest concern was the lack of talent on the team (Owens would have had one more 6-5 year under his belt and then the wheels would have fallen off). JD had to come in and clean house. Most were so bad they couldn't even make Ashland win their conference after transferring there. The new guy won't have to do that. JD left enough talent behind to win in the MAC....the next guy needs to win sooner rather than later.

I hope you're right. It makes me wonder why JD did better with LO guys than his own?

Biggs, Alleman, Kemme, Getsy and pulling Hixon from defense to offense. Four of those five were JD's guys. Hixon my as well have been since JD saved his career. The myth is JD won with LO's guys. The reality is his guys took the Zips from a second place team to MAC Champions.One other thing everyone seems to forget is JD lost some key assistant coaches in the first couple of years. Arron Alford is doing well at Utah and the LB coach is doing well at Air Force. I think these guys were key losses to the program.

[Hilltopper]

As the JDB era has come to a close, I have noticed several posters who repeatedly insist that this is a talented group. Some believe that this group of players is talented enough to win right away with the right coaching. While I'm not a talent evaluator, like most of us, I'm a little more skeptical that we have that much talent on the roster. So, I'd like to see a discussion with some specifics about where this group is talented and where we have needs. I'll start by taking away the obvious ones, the guys who have received strong praise here all year, Wagner and Nicely. Wagner is a ball hawk and appears to be in on every play. It's almost as if by magic to see how often he's in the scrum. Nicely looks pretty good too, especially for a true freshman who JD clearly wanted NOT to see the field this year. Now, where are the rest of the talented players we expect to spark UA's resurgence next year? Until I see some discussion of the talent on this roster, generic assertions that this is a very talented roster mean nothing to me.

All of them.The overall athletic talent on this team is good enough to win in this sorry league if it wasn't for the mismanagement of the coach. The problem is the talent was used in the wrong way because JD's strategies were destined for failure. Using different schemes will bring out the talent in the team. It happens frequently. A good swift kick in the ass from the new coach will do wonders for the kids as well.When Owens was fired, my biggest concern was the lack of talent on the team (Owens would have had one more 6-5 year under his belt and then the wheels would have fallen off). JD had to come in and clean house. Most were so bad they couldn't even make Ashland win their conference after transferring there. The new guy won't have to do that. JD left enough talent behind to win in the MAC....the next guy needs to win sooner rather than later.

I hope you're right. It makes me wonder why JD did better with LO guys than his own?

Biggs, Alleman, Kemme, Getsy and pulling Hixon from defense to offense. Four of those five were JD's guys. Hixon my as well have been since JD saved his career. The myth is JD won with LO's guys. The reality is his guys took the Zips from a second place team to MAC Champions.One other thing everyone seems to forget is JD lost some key assistant coaches in the first couple of years. Arron Alford is doing well at Utah and the LB coach is doing well at Air Force. I think these guys were key losses to the program.

I agree that those guys were "His Guys", but why wasn't he able to attract anymore of those types of players after that initial wave?

[Spin]

Losing the starting QB to cleptomania, losing the backup to injury, not to mention the top reciever, it would be tough for any program to do well with a fourth string freshman redshirted quarterback.That said, I sincerely hope I NEVER EVER see the spread and the 3-3-5 as Akron's base offense and defense again. EVER. They make good situational formations, but are not base. You'll never recruit a QB with the slightest thought of sniffing the NFL with that gimmick O. And I can scheme against the 3-3-5, and I never coached above youth league.Great guy, built a team without the riff raff, great with the kids, but NO imagination.

[GP1]

As the JDB era has come to a close, I have noticed several posters who repeatedly insist that this is a talented group. Some believe that this group of players is talented enough to win right away with the right coaching. While I'm not a talent evaluator, like most of us, I'm a little more skeptical that we have that much talent on the roster. So, I'd like to see a discussion with some specifics about where this group is talented and where we have needs. I'll start by taking away the obvious ones, the guys who have received strong praise here all year, Wagner and Nicely. Wagner is a ball hawk and appears to be in on every play. It's almost as if by magic to see how often he's in the scrum. Nicely looks pretty good too, especially for a true freshman who JD clearly wanted NOT to see the field this year. Now, where are the rest of the talented players we expect to spark UA's resurgence next year? Until I see some discussion of the talent on this roster, generic assertions that this is a very talented roster mean nothing to me.

All of them.The overall athletic talent on this team is good enough to win in this sorry league if it wasn't for the mismanagement of the coach. The problem is the talent was used in the wrong way because JD's strategies were destined for failure. Using different schemes will bring out the talent in the team. It happens frequently. A good swift kick in the ass from the new coach will do wonders for the kids as well.When Owens was fired, my biggest concern was the lack of talent on the team (Owens would have had one more 6-5 year under his belt and then the wheels would have fallen off). JD had to come in and clean house. Most were so bad they couldn't even make Ashland win their conference after transferring there. The new guy won't have to do that. JD left enough talent behind to win in the MAC....the next guy needs to win sooner rather than later.

I hope you're right. It makes me wonder why JD did better with LO guys than his own?

Biggs, Alleman, Kemme, Getsy and pulling Hixon from defense to offense. Four of those five were JD's guys. Hixon my as well have been since JD saved his career. The myth is JD won with LO's guys. The reality is his guys took the Zips from a second place team to MAC Champions.One other thing everyone seems to forget is JD lost some key assistant coaches in the first couple of years. Arron Alford is doing well at Utah and the LB coach is doing well at Air Force. I think these guys were key losses to the program.

I agree that those guys were "His Guys", but why wasn't he able to attract anymore of those types of players after that initial wave?

I respectfully disagree. Nicely is a potential future NFL player if his accuracy can improve. Wagner is a solid player. We have a very good group of young RBs. Harvey was a future NFL player if he wasn't so stupid. We have talented kids on defense who have been put in a hopeless positioin. The talent was/is there. The coaching did not put the talent the team had in a position to win.

[Z.I.P.]

You know I feel like the proverbial since I've complained about the offensive line play since 2005, but why not one more time. Most of the O-linemen JD recruited were the reason his recruiting classes were ranked as high in the MAC as they were. On the field however -- the performance was the opposite. This is one specific point I will be looking at closely in 2010. If their play doesn't improve, there will be little chance for overall improvement in wins-losses. I'd consider 5-6 wins in 2010 to be a success.