Zips SOS

[Dave in Green]

Zips fans have varying opinions about the team's SOS. Some think it's OK having a weak schedule, others think it should be at least a little stronger and some think it ought to be a lot stronger.An interesting insight into how much difference a single game can make is that the Zips SOS for this season took a 35-position climb, from 209 to 174 out of 347 D1 teams, with the simple addition of VCU and its high RPI for the BracketBuster game. Similarly, Cleveland State took a 31-position drop in SOS when they drew Toledo in the BracketBuster.Zips are listed as one of the top SOS gainers at the top of the page in the following link:NCAA SOS

[GJGood]

Zips fans have varying opinions about the team's SOS. Some think it's OK having a weak schedule, others think it should be at least a little stronger and some think it ought to be a lot stronger.An interesting insight into how much difference a single game can make is that the Zips SOS for this season took a 35-position climb, from 209 to 174 out of 347 D1 teams, with the simple addition of VCU and its high RPI for the BracketBuster game. Similarly, Cleveland State took a 31-position drop in SOS when they drew Toledo in the BracketBuster.Zips are listed as one of the top SOS gainers at the top of the page in the following link:NCAA SOS

Can't argue with what the statistics say I guess. Its just too bad that they are so important to selection committees and those who do the seeding in postseason tournaments.The fact that those numbers can change so much with just one game is exactly why I say the Zips need to schedule a little differently out of conference. I don't think they need more big name schools necessarily though. They just got to keep the bad teams from lesser leagues off the schedule. How big an impact would it have had on our SOS if we took the four worst teams off of our non-conference slate and just replaced them with teams in the middle of the pack in those same conferences? I don't think we need to change who we schedule from the marquee names down but rather from the bottom up.

[Dave in Green]

Well, statistics don't always tell the whole story. But the only means of evaluating relative team strength other than numbers is human interpretation or opinion, and the only reliable thing about opinions is that they lead to endless internet forum debates. So we have to take those two imperfect measurements -- numbers and human interpretation -- shake well, pour, and hope it comes out reasonably close to a perfect cocktail.

[mivid12]

Well, statistics don't always tell the whole story. But the only means of evaluating relative team strength other than numbers is human interpretation or opinion, and the only reliable thing about opinions is that they lead to endless internet forum debates. So we have to take those two imperfect measurements -- numbers and human interpretation -- shake well, pour, and hope it comes out reasonably close to a perfect cocktail.

the zips play a gutless OCC sked....they should emulate Can't State's OCC sked...and it pains me to say that, but would it matter?they'd just embarass themselvs like saturday...which btw, i've about had it with dambrots manic sub patterns....no group gets to develop any chemistryi'd start humpty, both mcknights, JC & zeke

[MDZip]

Interesting little tidbit on conference RPI's and SOS on Seth Davis's SI.com column.I was looking at conference rankings based on RPI numbers and was shocked to see the Big Ten at number four. With four legitimate top-20 teams (Purdue, Michigan State, Wisconsin, and Ohio State) out of 11, how can the Big Ten be behind the ACC (which they beat in the challenge for a change) and the SEC?-- Jeff DeMars, Arlington, Va.Actually, the Big Ten is ranked fifth in the conference RPI, not fourth. I'm no math geek, but my understanding is the conference RPI rankings are mostly a reflection of the middle and bottom teams in the leagues. The Big Ten is strong at the top, but it also has four teams with horrible RPI rankings: Michigan (141), Iowa (190), Penn State (197) and Indiana (214). That will drag a league down far more than good teams like Purdue (7), Wisconsin (19) and Michigan State (28) will prop it up. The SEC, by contrast, has only one team ranked below 140, and that's No. 219 LSU.Incidentally, the same principle applies to strength of schedule. If a team has played a bunch of teams with really low RPI rankings, that will hurt its SOS more than playing strong teams will help. That's why many conference commissioners are taking a firmer, more broad-based approach to scheduling by demanding that the middle and bottom teams in the league stay away from teams ranked below 200. Former Atlantic 10 commissioner Linda Bruno started doing that several years ago in her league, and that is a big reason why the Atlantic 10 has such a strong RPI profile -- which, naturally, will result in more NCAA bids.http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ...c#ixzz0gTxlHY5u

[ziptrumpet87]

Interesting little tidbit on conference RPI's and SOS on Seth Davis's SI.com column.I was looking at conference rankings based on RPI numbers and was shocked to see the Big Ten at number four. With four legitimate top-20 teams (Purdue, Michigan State, Wisconsin, and Ohio State) out of 11, how can the Big Ten be behind the ACC (which they beat in the challenge for a change) and the SEC?-- Jeff DeMars, Arlington, Va.Actually, the Big Ten is ranked fifth in the conference RPI, not fourth. I'm no math geek, but my understanding is the conference RPI rankings are mostly a reflection of the middle and bottom teams in the leagues. The Big Ten is strong at the top, but it also has four teams with horrible RPI rankings: Michigan (141), Iowa (190), Penn State (197) and Indiana (214). That will drag a league down far more than good teams like Purdue (7), Wisconsin (19) and Michigan State (28) will prop it up. The SEC, by contrast, has only one team ranked below 140, and that's No. 219 LSU.Incidentally, the same principle applies to strength of schedule. If a team has played a bunch of teams with really low RPI rankings, that will hurt its SOS more than playing strong teams will help. That's why many conference commissioners are taking a firmer, more broad-based approach to scheduling by demanding that the middle and bottom teams in the league stay away from teams ranked below 200. Former Atlantic 10 commissioner Linda Bruno started doing that several years ago in her league, and that is a big reason why the Atlantic 10 has such a strong RPI profile -- which, naturally, will result in more NCAA bids.http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ...c#ixzz0gTxlHY5u

I'd gladly substitute LSU, Penn State, Iowa, or Indiana for Malone in our schedule, not that they would ever agree to a 1-for-1.

[Dave in Green]

Here's another interesting data point on SOS. As of this moment:Buffalo has an SOS of 116 and the Zips have an SOS of 170.Buffalo has a record of 17-10 and the Zips have a record of 22-8.Buffalo has the 92nd best RPI and the Zips have the 93rd best RPI.Draw your own conclusions.

[GJGood]

Buffalo plays more of the kind of non-conference schedule I'd like to see the Zips play. I'm not for loading up on schools in or near the Top 25 although having one or two is a nice measuring stick.I just think if we are going to play teams from conferences that are lower profile leagues than the MAC that we should play teams that perform fairly well within that conference and not teams at the bottom of those standings. I am all for playing teams like Niagara, Austin Peay, and Wyoming. I just think it would be nice, if instead of teams like St. Francis we were getting at least somebody like a Bucknell, Morgan State, Arkansas State, or even Air Force. Those teams are at least going to get a good number of wins over the course of a season and you may even be able to secure home-and-home scenarios with them.

[goodthts]

Buffalo plays more of the kind of non-conference schedule I'd like to see the Zips play. I'm not for loading up on schools in or near the Top 25 although having one or two is a nice measuring stick.I just think if we are going to play teams from conferences that are lower profile leagues than the MAC that we should play teams that perform fairly well within that conference and not teams at the bottom of those standings. I am all for playing teams like Niagara, Austin Peay, and Wyoming. I just think it would be nice, if instead of teams like St. Francis we were getting at least somebody like a Bucknell, Morgan State, Arkansas State, or even Air Force. Those teams are at least going to get a good number of wins over the course of a season and you may even be able to secure home-and-home scenarios with them.

+1Would be much more inclined to goto Home games early in season if Zips played teams with a little more prestige and notoriety than St Francis and Malone college. Here are the NCAA BB 2010 Standings from cbs.sportsline: http://tinyurl.com/ybelakgZips should not schedule cupcakes anymore except exhibitionsZips should schedule teams such as: Robert Morris 15-3 20-11Vermont 12-4 22-9 Maine 11-5 19-10 Boston U. 11-5 17-12Providence 4-12 12-16 Marshall 10-5 22-8 Tulsa 10-5 21-9 Southern Miss 7-8 17-12 Houston 7-8 15-14 SMU 7-8 14-15 Cleveland St. 10-8 16-16 Iona 12-6 21-9 Niagara 9-9 17-14 I want to see teams that might have the ability to be in the tournament AND are beatable teams.Doing so would easier market these teams to casual fans or fans like myself who cannot normally make it to weeknight games in Nov and Dec.

[Dave in Green]

Buffalo's OOC conference doesn't look terribly tougher than the Zips' OOC schedule, though Buffalo had four fewer OOC games and the balance of home and away games is dramatically different (note that each of the last OOC games are BracketBusters not scheduled by each school):Buffalo (11 OOC Games; 4 Home, 7 Away 7-4 Record;)Vermont Lost 57-58@Navy Won 63-53@Towson Won 78-69Canisius Lost 71-73Army Won 74-67@Purdue Lost 65-101 @Niagara Won 86-80@Green Bay Won 71-65 @Jacksonville Lost 73-83 Liberty Won 81-64@ St. Peter's Won 77-75Zips (15 OOC Games; 10 Home, 5 Away; 10-5 Record)Austin Peay Lost 77-80 @N.C. State Lost 45-66 @Drake Won 63-59 Howard Won 69-52 Ark.-Pine Bluff Won 68-65 Niagara Won 80-68 @Texas A&M Lost 62-74 Malone University Won 62-30 UNC-Greensboro Won 83-59 St. Francis (Pa.) Won 80-51Ill.-Chicago Won 77-65 Valparaiso Won 77-57 @Wyoming Won 85-76 Rhode Island Lost 63-68@ VCU Lost 53-70By the way, both team's RPIs went up overnight due to results of other teams' games, with Buffalo moving up to 88 and the Zips to 91.

[RowdyZip]

It is easy to put up a list of who we should play based on this year's records. VERY few "mid" and "low" majors are consistently competitive. UNCG was good a couple years back...

[goodthts]

It is easy to put up a list of who we should play based on this year's records. VERY few "mid" and "low" majors are consistently competitive. UNCG was good a couple years back...

Ok, thats valid...however the teams i listed do have more consistent winning seasons and at times do make the tournamentOur current mostly weak OOC schdl consisted of 14 games. Of those, maybe 4 or 5 teams can be considered consistent winners. The Zips lost 4 of those games to teams who have winning seasons regularily. So playing 10 games against inferior opponents is nice to "pad" the won/loss record, but damn those games are BORING and generate ZERO interest with many fans. Howard....really?!AR Pine Bluff...lower conf foe, zero regional interest generated...BORINGMalone...should not schld ever again except in exhibitionSt. Francis (PA)...rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/teams/sbo "...totaling 16 league victories over the last four seasons." BAD team!Ill. Chicago & Valparaiso are 2nd tier Horizon League teams...again who cares about these teams? I know my points are way over analyzed. Just want to have a reason to make the drive down I-77 in Mid-Nov more often. The teams listed above are not good teams and therefore do not generate buzz/interest/attendence. Now a Youngstown State & CLE State game set would be great for fan support and interest.-end of rant-

[ZachTheZip]

YSU is worse than half the teams you listed. CSU is just average. Are they really an upgrade?

[xu9697]

YSU is worse than half the teams you listed. CSU is just average. Are they really an upgrade?

16-16 for CSU would, I guess, be the epitome of "average" if we looked at only a team's record. But, let's remember..included in those 16 losses are loses to Kansas State, Ohio State, Kentucky, Butler (2) and West Virginia.Not to mention..CSU makes sense regionally. So does YSU, so does Duquesne, St. Bonaventure, Detroit, Wright State, Niagara, etc.For me, if you are looking at scheduling mid-major teams...keep it regional (with 3 to 5 hours) as best as possible.Really, in the end, 90% of us are talking about the same things= get rid of Malone and St. Francis, add Duquesne and Cleveland State (as regional, mid-major examples) and the schedule begins to feel a lot better.

[ZachTheZip]

Playing Malone didn't hurt the strength of schedule. SOS is only calculated against Division I teams.What really hurt the SOS was playing so many of the teams at home. I don't think that will be as much of a problem next season.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Playing Malone didn't hurt the strength of schedule. SOS is only calculated against Division I teams.What really hurt the SOS was playing so many of the teams at home. I don't think that will be as much of a problem next season.

So we should play St Francis on the road? Problem solved.Our SOS was weak for one reason - Our schedule was weak. Funny how that works out.

[GP1]

Our SOS was weak for one reason - Our schedule was weak. Funny how that works out.

Would you also agree that water is hot when it is boiling?

[Captain Kangaroo]

Our SOS was weak for one reason - Our schedule was weak. Funny how that works out.

Would you also agree that water is hot when it is boiling?

It depends upon the atmospheric pressure:

[MDZip]

Our SOS was weak for one reason - Our schedule was weak. Funny how that works out.

Would you also agree that water is hot when it is boiling?

It depends upon the atmospheric pressure:

Classic, have any triple point graphs to go with it? (Maybe like for Singletary so we know how much pressure to put on him to make him exceed hs boiling point?).

[GP1]

Our SOS was weak for one reason - Our schedule was weak. Funny how that works out.

Would you also agree that water is hot when it is boiling?

It depends upon the atmospheric pressure:

Water isn't hot when it is boiling?

[Quickzips]

Playing Malone didn't hurt the strength of schedule. SOS is only calculated against Division I teams.What really hurt the SOS was playing so many of the teams at home. I don't think that will be as much of a problem next season.

I will say it again. Malone might not have hurt our SOS from the perspective of they don't count towards it, but they also didn't help our SOS. When you factor in that we could have used that available game to put someone on the schedule who is a top 50-100 RPI team that maybe we would have had a chance of beating and hence helping our SOS and RPI....