You Learn Something New Every Day

[GP1]

I was reading Rasor's blog this morning and one fan commented on his blog about the feel at basketball games. I was shocked to see the reason Huggins left was because of the size and shape of the JAR and not the better opportunity and money at Cincy. That damn JAR gets us everytime.

My thoughts on fans down low sitting on their hands while the Zips take a beat down from Can't are as follows. I don't blame them. Give them nothing to cheer for and they won't cheer. They are the people supporting the program by putting their money where their mouth is. If they want to take a crap on their seat after every game, the AD should say, "We'll get someone to clean that up right away."

[Zip_ME87]

I was reading Rasor's blog this morning and one fan commented on his blog about the feel at basketball games. I was shocked to see the reason Huggins left was because of the size and shape of the JAR and not the better opportunity and money at Cincy. That damn JAR gets us everytime.

My thoughts on fans down low sitting on their hands while the Zips take a beat down from Can't are as follows. I don't blame them. Give them nothing to cheer for and they won't cheer. They are the people supporting the program by putting their money where their mouth is. If they want to take a crap on their seat after every game, the AD should say, "We'll get someone to clean that up right away."

+1

The fans in the lower seating respond pretty well to the AK-Rowdies when there is something worth cheering about. Also, the fans in the lower seating stand for the Zips introduction and the first basket unlike many in the GA sections.

[GP1]

Also, the fans in the lower seating stand for the Zips introduction and the first basket unlike many in the GA sections.

I really don't blame the people in GA for not standing. It's hard to stand and cheer your team on when you have been painfully crippled by the "comfort level" of the GA benches.

[skip-zip]

I was reading Rasor's blog this morning and one fan commented on his blog about the feel at basketball games. I was shocked to see the reason Huggins left was because of the size and shape of the JAR and not the better opportunity and money at Cincy. That damn JAR gets us everytime.

My thoughts on fans down low sitting on their hands while the Zips take a beat down from Can't are as follows. I don't blame them. Give them nothing to cheer for and they won't cheer. They are the people supporting the program by putting their money where their mouth is. If they want to take a crap on their seat after every game, the AD should say, "We'll get someone to clean that up right away."

Although I often agree with most of the assessments about the JAR's deficiencies.....please....direct me to something that shows that the shape/size of the arena was THE reason Huggins left, and not the serious move upward that the Cincinnati job presented.

I was still a student when Bob was hired. The JAR was a brand new facility at the time, and an amazing upgrade from where we used to watch basketball games. If you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for some of the last coaches who preceded him, who had to run our program with Memorial Gym as their centerpiece.

[Dave in Green]

The JAR may have been on a list of things that contributed to Huggins to leaving UA. But I suspect it was near the bottom of the list.

[Big Zip]

Huggins watched a University build a high school gym for his up and coming basketball team -- he saw what Guzetta thought of college athletics (in particular men's basketball) and he say f-off. I don't blame him...the school then committed more to their football team by going out and hiring Faust and ditching a guy like Dennison and what was his choice. The school showed him that it didn't value basketball and would ditch anyone at the drop of a hat..

[GP1]

Huggins watched a University build a high school gym for his up and coming basketball team -- he saw what Guzetta thought of college athletics (in particular men's basketball) and he say f-off. I don't blame him...the school then committed more to their football team by going out and hiring Faust and ditching a guy like Dennison and what was his choice. The school showed him that it didn't value basketball and would ditch anyone at the drop of a hat..

Or, he saw more money and a team in a better conference at Cincy.

The departure of Huggins is looked at by Zips fans as a negative. It was completely positive and inevitable. Positive in that Huggins did all he could with the program. Coleman Crawford was the mistake, not the employment of Faust. Huggins was and still is the best BB coach in school history. If the football program doesn't hire Faust, they don't move to D-IA and Huggins is stuck in the OVC forever. I don't think that was the way he saw his career going. Huggins was/is a great coach and his leaving was going to happen whether or not Faust was hired.

IMNHO, the best discussion about Faust/Huggins is, What if Faust isn't hired? UofA never leaves the OVC and I-AA football. Huggins leaves maybe a year later. Either way, Huggins would not be at UofA today. Would the athletic department be better off today? We now have twenty years of evidence behind us. Let's face it, the MAC is a glorified I-AA conference. We would have the best facilities in I-AA and could be a national power. Instead, we have good facilities in a half ass conference....sorry, the worst DI-A football conference. The OVC is still a very good basketball conference. We would be better off right now in the OVC. Now, if the NCAA could just get around to realigning college football, everything would be in order for the Zips.

[Blue & Gold]

Huggins watched a University build a high school gym for his up and coming basketball team -- he saw what Guzetta thought of college athletics (in particular men's basketball) and he say f-off. I don't blame him...the school then committed more to their football team by going out and hiring Faust and ditching a guy like Dennison and what was his choice. The school showed him that it didn't value basketball and would ditch anyone at the drop of a hat..

Or, he saw more money and a team in a better conference at Cincy.

The departure of Huggins is looked at by Zips fans as a negative. It was completely positive and inevitable. Positive in that Huggins did all he could with the program. Coleman Crawford was the mistake, not the employment of Faust. Huggins was and still is the best BB coach in school history. If the football program doesn't hire Faust, they don't move to D-IA and Huggins is stuck in the OVC forever. I don't think that was the way he saw his career going. Huggins was/is a great coach and his leaving was going to happen whether or not Faust was hired.

IMNHO, the best discussion about Faust/Huggins is, What if Faust isn't hired? UofA never leaves the OVC and I-AA football. Huggins leaves maybe a year later. Either way, Huggins would not be at UofA today. Would the athletic department be better off today? We now have twenty years of evidence behind us. Let's face it, the MAC is a glorified I-AA conference. We would have the best facilities in I-AA and could be a national power. Instead, we have good facilities in a half ass conference....sorry, the worst DI-A football conference. The OVC is still a very good basketball conference. We would be better off right now in the OVC. Now, if the NCAA could just get around to realigning college football, everything would be in order for the Zips.

Eh, maybe, maybe not. We do now have excellent facilities. The best mid-major facilities in the country, and good for even for a BCS school. We're in the heart of a football-crazed region. I don't think a single Zips fans has delusions of gradeur such as beating Texas to win the national title. But I do think the Zips could be a regular Top 25 program. And I know that I'd much rather be a regular D-1 Top 25 (even if it's #25) than be D-1AA National Champs. I think that is the general consensus among Zips fans and the board of trustees.

I think your idea of a Top 40 super league, or something like that, is intriguing and has much merit. But I would always hope that such an alignment would be an open system, where worthy teams not in the initial Top 40 (Boise State, etc.) could replace unworthy Top 40 bottom dwellers. I think Euro-league soccer works on this premise. I'd always want to have the hope of competing @ the top level. A permanent move to 1AA would kill all hope of that. Besides, except for the perennial Top 15 programs in the country, I think the Zips have the potential to be competitive with anyone esle.

[Dave in Green]

..... The OVC is still a very good basketball conference. We would be better off right now in the OVC. .....

By what measure?

By conference RPI, the MAC ended up the season #16 and the OVC #20. Average team RPI in the MAC was 169, and in the OVC 205.

How would this be better for the Zips?

[GoZips]

Since I am and have been a personal friend of coach Huggins all these years I think I can reveal

the truth. Which, if you do not believe me, verify what I am writing with coach Peters who is also a

friend of mine and of coach Huggins.

There were several factors in Hug's decision to leave for Cincinnati. While Bob was not pleased with

the construction structural issues of the J.A.R. I seriously doubt that those issues had anything at all

with his decision.

Nor did his relationship with Gerry Faust and then AD Jim Dennison. Hugs did not like all the money

being spent on football. He believed that he could build a top echelon basketball program at Akron.

Which conference was not important. But, being in a conference was.

The university made an abortive attempt to join the Northeast conference to placate Huggins. When

he left the university they withdrew and forfeited their application fee ($40,000, I believe).

Huggins held the opinion that he could take the Zips to the Final Four. A lot of people, myself included,

believed that he could do just that.

Huggins offered to STAY as Akron's head coach if the University would match Cincinnati's offer which

was a paltry $75.000 (Hugs was being paid $47,000 at Akron). So far as I know, it was Jim Dennison

who refused to fight to keep Huggins. Bad decision, one that hastened his departure from the Zips

athletics world.

Huggins wanted Akron to join the then fledgling Big East conference. He had sufficient connections

to insure that Akron would be accepted. The Big East literally invited Akron to join. It was Jim

Dennison and some board members who put the ka-bosh on that idea.

For the eighth time let's debunk that old rubbish about Gerry Faust costing Jim Dennison his job.

Now, if, GP1, is half as smart has he likes to think he is; he will agree with me on this next

point. Jim Dennison lost his job as head football coach while Gerry Faust was still the head coach

at Notre Dame. Dennison lost his job because he could not win at the 1-A level. He had some

opportunities to step aside and take the AD job. But, bull headed Jim wanted to be the football

coach in an environment that was clearly beyond his abilities. Now, do not get me wrong, Jim was

and is sill a great football coach at the lower tier, not at 1-A. sorry. That is fact.

Gerry Faust was not even considered for the head coaching job until well after Dennison was fired.

[RootforRoo44]

..... The OVC is still a very good basketball conference. We would be better off right now in the OVC. .....

By what measure?

By conference RPI, the MAC ended up the season #16 and the OVC #20. Average team RPI in the MAC was 169, and in the OVC 205.

How would this be better for the Zips?

We would have been in the NCAA tournament

[Dave in Green]

..... The OVC is still a very good basketball conference. We would be better off right now in the OVC. .....

By what measure?

By conference RPI, the MAC ended up the season #16 and the OVC #20. Average team RPI in the MAC was 169, and in the OVC 205.

How would this be better for the Zips?

We would have been in the NCAA tournament

If the goal is to get into the weakest conference with an automatic NCAA tournament bid, why shoot so high as the OVC? There were 11 conferences with lower RPI's than the OVC that had automatic bids. How about the SWAC? Their average team RPI was 302. That would really be good for Zips recruiting, too.

[skip-zip]

Huggins watched a University build a high school gym for his up and coming basketball team -- he saw what Guzetta thought of college athletics (in particular men's basketball) and he say f-off. I don't blame him...the school then committed more to their football team by going out and hiring Faust and ditching a guy like Dennison and what was his choice. The school showed him that it didn't value basketball and would ditch anyone at the drop of a hat..

????

Just so nobody is misled by this....

Huggins did not even start coaching here until after the completion of the JAR.

And...Muse was Akron's president during the Huggins era.

[Hilltopper]

Huggins watched a University build a high school gym for his up and coming basketball team -- he saw what Guzetta thought of college athletics (in particular men's basketball) and he say f-off. I don't blame him...the school then committed more to their football team by going out and hiring Faust and ditching a guy like Dennison and what was his choice. The school showed him that it didn't value basketball and would ditch anyone at the drop of a hat..

????

Just so nobody is misled by this....

Huggins did not even start coaching here until after the completion of the JAR.

And...Muse was Akron's president during the Huggins era.

Bob Rupert was the head coach when the JAR opened.

[GP1]

Now, if, GP1, is half as smart has he likes to think he is; he will agree with me on this next

point. Jim Dennison lost his job as head football coach while Gerry Faust was still the head coach

at Notre Dame. Dennison lost his job because he could not win at the 1-A level. He had some

opportunities to step aside and take the AD job. But, bull headed Jim wanted to be the football

coach in an environment that was clearly beyond his abilities. Now, do not get me wrong, Jim was

and is sill a great football coach at the lower tier, not at 1-A. sorry. That is fact.

I'm probably much smarter than I think I am.

I agree that Dennison would not have won at the 1-A level. In the 1980s, Dennison's coaching ideas were already becoming ideas of the past. The guy ran the ball 52 times in a single game. That was thinking well in the past. Maybe that worked at the 1-AA level, but it wasn't going to work at 1-A. College football was changing rapidly and Dennison wasn't a change type of guy. Unfortunately, many on this board still think it would work.

The problem with Faust was his thinking wasn't far from Dennison's. Faust saw first hand how offenses like Miami's were deadly at the college level and he never made a move in that direction. Faust was laughed off the field his last game at ND against a deadly Miami offense. It should have turned some bulb on in his head, but it didn't. We ran a very unsophisticated offense Faust's first few years here that consisted of a split backfield, running off tackle and the most sophisticated passing play was a two man combination route to one side of the field....not exactly the pro style offenses many schools were moving toward. Faust tinkered around with some Mickey Mouse offenses later in his tenure, but he never embraced the pro style like the really successful programs were.

I'm not sure of the timeline between when Dennison was fired and when Faust was hired, but Faust's book paints a slightly different picture.

UofA made a lot of mistakes when it moved the football team to 1-A. In reality, nobody at the school really understood what it would take to make the transition other than Faust and Huggins. In many ways, we still suffer from that ignorance today. That ignorance alone would have driven Huggins away from UofA. He knew what to do and was the only one who did...frustration would have driven him away. Leaving UofA was the best thing Huggins could have ever done for his career.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

With all the talk of Huggins and his success, I'd like to know if anyone cares that he is and was a truly onerous human being as far as I've ever been able to tell. I ran track at UA when Huggins coached here and remember numerous training sessions running on that horrible so-called indoor track above the BB floor, you know, the one with 4 90-degree sharp turns.

I have strong memories of running up there, a fabric curtain shielding the BB floor while the team would be down below practicing. Huggins was unbelievably venomous toward the players, just ugly, and ran his practices through pure intimidation and fear. I also had the unhappy "luck" to be in the training room down below several times, or in hallways at the JAR, when Huggins was skulking around. The guy appeared to know nothing other than intimidation and aggression and it just hung around him like an aura whenever I was around him. He won games and in college sports nobody seems to care that such people are in charge when they win games.

I'd also like to point out that his teams, especially at Cinci, were extremely thuggish and he at one point led teams that graduated next to nobody. Are these good things? If Huggins is any sort of model for quality college basketball then count me out. I've felt for many years that men like Huggins should coach in the NBA where it is truly ONLY about winning, but then again his M.O. of using fear and aggression would surely backfire and he'd fail when the superstars would refuse to take his sh_t.

It was awesome to see his team destroyed yesterday.

[GoZips]

UofA made a lot of mistakes when it moved the football team to 1-A. In reality, nobody at the school really understood what it would take to make the transition other than Faust and Huggins. In many ways, we still suffer from that ignorance today. That ignorance alone would have driven Huggins away from UofA. He knew what to do and was the only one who did...frustration would have driven him away. Leaving UofA was the best thing Huggins could have ever done for his career.

Sounds like a more than a fair assessment.

An odd thing is that Huggins and Faust liked each other. I don't think either blames the other for

any of the missteps the university took.

Some one posted that the J.A.R. was built prior to Huggins arrival. This is correct. I attended the

first men's game played in the J.A.R. and Bob Ruppurt was the head coach at that time. And, Dr. Bill

Muse was the university president at the time.

[johnnyzip84]

UofA made a lot of mistakes when it moved the football team to 1-A. In reality, nobody at the school really understood what it would take to make the transition other than Faust and Huggins. In many ways, we still suffer from that ignorance today. That ignorance alone would have driven Huggins away from UofA. He knew what to do and was the only one who did...frustration would have driven him away. Leaving UofA was the best thing Huggins could have ever done for his career.

Sounds like a more than a fair assessment.

An odd thing is that Huggins and Faust liked each other. I don't think either blames the other for

any of the missteps the university took.

Some one posted that the J.A.R. was built prior to Huggins arrival. This is correct. I attended the

first men's game played in the J.A.R. and Bob Ruppurt was the head coach at that time. And, Dr. Bill

Muse was the university president at the time.

I was also there and the opponent was BG if I recall correctly. And BG won Rupert was a Canton McKinley legend who was in a little bit too deep at UA.

[Dave in Green]

I haven't been a big fan of some of Huggins' antics over the years. But I have to admit that I was touched by his reaction to his fallen star player in Saturday's Duke game.

cbssports.com link

[meatwad]

I was touched

cbssports.com link

His player was too.

[GP1]

Huggins was unbelievably venomous toward the players, just ugly, and ran his practices through pure intimidation and fear.

I'd also like to point out that his teams, especially at Cinci, were extremely thuggish and he at one point led teams that graduated next to nobody. Are these good things?

It depends on the definition of good.

There is no doubt you have accurately described Huggy's professional personality. I really don't know the guy personally so nobody should comment.

Here is the point. Most of us on this on this board have no idea how difficult it is to grow up in the type of situation many college basketball players grow up in. Most on this board would probably piss their pants daily in high school if you had to grow up in those circumstances. Many of those kids have a tough crust about them that we will never understand. The only thing many of them understand is intimidation and they don't respect anyone who they don't believe is as tough as they are.

Huggins was/is as tough as any kid he has ever coached. He has proven over the course of a very successful career, at schools that are not exactly in the top echilon, that kids respond to him being a hardass. Just like Bob Knight, kids know what they are getting into when they sign the offer letter. WVU never won the Big East until Huggins came along. UofA was a very good team and won the OVC with Huggins...a trip to the NIT as well. Cincy was a more than solid program under Huggins. None of these schools are exactly hotbeds of college basketball and Huggins has won at all three and took two to the Final Four. Once schools like UNC, Duke, UCONN, AZ, etc. get done picking the cream of the crop, guys like Huggins are left with what is remaining. Right or wrong, Huggins is a great coach.