More Expansion Talk

[GP1]

ESPN just reported that Nebraska to the Big Ten is official.

This makes sense. If Nebraska goes to the PAC-10, the are middle to low level team. If they go to the Big Ten, they will compete for the conference championship next year.

[Dr Z]

I hope doubt the MAC ever takes Marshall back.

I would love to have Marshall back in the MAC. Some of the best Akron football games I have been to. Fans travel well also.

[GP1]

Rather than talk about moving to a bigger conference, I think we should work to regain the reputation on the MAC. If that means putting some on probation or dropping some, so be it. In the long run, it may be easier to fix the MAC that for Akron to wedge it's way into one of the emerging Mega conferences.

This ship has sailed. The reputation of the MAC is going to be even worse after realignment unless it becomes part of a lower division. No self-respecting conference would invite a MAC school to join.

[eguins]

Rather than talk about moving to a bigger conference, I think we should work to regain the reputation on the MAC. If that means putting some on probation or dropping some, so be it. In the long run, it may be easier to fix the MAC that for Akron to wedge it's way into one of the emerging Mega conferences.

This ship has sailed. The reputation of the MAC is going to be even worse after realignment unless it becomes part of a lower division. No self-respecting conference would invite a MAC school to join.

With all the talk of these mega-conferences, some in the FCS are community are wondering if there is a possibility for a 3rd division to be created. Something along the lines of this:

1. BCS - Mega Conferences battle it out in a playoff for the BCS National Title

2. I-A - Non BCS conferences would compete at this level, perhaps add Colonial Athletic Association and Missouri Valley Conference to this level due to stadium size and overall competitiveness of each league.

3. I-AA - Leave the rest of the I-AA conferences for the FCS National Title.

Link: http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/for...tart=25#p302637

[Z.I.P.]

ESPN just reported that Nebraska to the Big Ten is official.

This makes sense. If Nebraska goes to the PAC-10, the are middle to low level team. If they go to the Big Ten, they will compete for the conference championship next year.

GP1! ??? Did you mistakenly flip your conferences above? Nebraska might be a once-in-a-while contender in the Big-10, as they were in Big-12. In the Pac-10, they are a constant threat to win it all (even if SC were allowed to compete). We are talking about American football, aren't we? Nebraska is like the Boise State of the Great Plains. Except their WBB team was awesome last year, and VB ain't bad -- that's it. I'm sure our Great One follows the LadyHuskers fortunes.

[GP1]

ESPN just reported that Nebraska to the Big Ten is official.

This makes sense. If Nebraska goes to the PAC-10, the are middle to low level team. If they go to the Big Ten, they will compete for the conference championship next year.

GP1! ??? Did you mistakenly flip your conferences above? Nebraska might be a once-in-a-while contender in the Big-10, as they were in Big-12. In the Pac-10, they are a constant threat to win it all (even if SC were allowed to compete). We are talking about American football, aren't we? Nebraska is like the Boise State of the Great Plains. Except their WBB team was awesome last year, and VB ain't bad -- that's it. I'm sure our Great One follows the LadyHuskers fortunes.

IMHHO, Nebraska would not be able to put up enough points in the PAC10 to compete. They have more of a midwest style of play.....low scoring and a defense that can hold off average offenses. They will finish in the top two or three in the Big Ten their first year.....maybe even win it all.

[ZippyTuba11]

I still don't see the conferences going super-sized yet. One important thing is standing in the way of that and that is the Big East. The mega-conferences won't work if the Big East doesn't break up. While it make make sense for most of football, the Big East is arguably the best basketball conference currently. If the Big East falls apart, a lot of schools will be homeless in what used to be a conference that could compete for the national title.

With that in mind, what happens to Kansas and Kansas St will probably be the biggest sign of what will be to come. None of the remaining 'power' conferences want Kansas St which is 'tied at the hip' to Kansas. There is only one power conference in a position to take both, and that is the Big East. It isn't a major move for football, but for basketball that really puts a lot of power in the Big East.

I see Texas going to the SEC over the PAC. Texas will fit in with those programs better. Football is just bigger in the south. And of course where Texas goes, so too will Texas A&M.

The only real question mark left is Oklahoma. The PAC needs another school to balance out. Probably not the ideal spot for either the conference or OK but it will do until the next shake up happens.

I don't think the PAC will invite OK St, and they will move to the Mountain West, which is making a real claim for a BCS deal.

The rest of the former Big 12 will probably end up in CUSA. This is where I see the MAC being affected. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Marshall is the odd man out and ends up looking to the MAC again. They haven't done well since the move, and the MAC needs another team to balance Temple. And say what you want about Temple, they are committing to building a good program there, and will likely be MAC title contenders soon and it is always good to have a winning program in the conference. It would be great to see their basketball program here too, but the MAC needs major improvements in basketball before it can pull Temple away from the A-10.

My wild card is Notre Dame. My guess is that they still play independent, and wait for the next big move before landing a conference.

ACC

1. Clemson

2. Boston College

3. Florida State

4. Wake Forest

5. North Carolina

6. Maryland

--

7. Georgia Tech

8. Virginia Tech

9. Miami

10. North Carolina

11. Duke

12. Virginia

Big East

1. Cincinnati

2. Pittsburgh

3. West Virginia

4. Rutgers

5. Connecticut

6. Louisville

7. Syracuse

8. South Florida

9. Kansas

10. Kansas St

Big Ten

1. Ohio State

2. Iowa

3. Penn St

4. Northwestern

5. Wisconsin

6. Michigan

7. Michigan St

8. Purdue

9. Minnesota

10. Illinois

11. Indiana

12. Nebraska

Con USA

1. East Carolina

2. UCF

3. Southern Miss

4. UAB

5. Memphis

6. Houston

7. Southern Methodist

--

8. Tulsa

9. UTEP

10. Rice

11. Tulane

12. Texas Tech

13. Baylor

14. Missouri

PAC

1. Oregon

2. Arizona

3. Oregon St

4. Stanford

5. USC

6. Cal

7. Washington

8. UCLA

9. Arizona St

10. Washington St

11. Colorado

12. Oklahoma

Mountain West

1. TCU

2. Brigham Young

3. Air Force

4. Wyoming

5. UNLV

6. San Diego St

7. New Mexico

8. Colorado St

9. Utah

10. Oklahoma St

SEC

1. Florida

2. Georgia

3. Tennessee

4. Kentucky

5. South Carolina

6. Vanderbilt

7. Alabama

--

8. LSU

9. Mississippi

10. Arkansas

11. Auburn

12. Mississippi St

13. Texas

14. Texas A&M

Sun Belt

1. Troy

2. Middle Tennessee

3. Louisiana-Monroe

4. Louisiana-Lafayette

5. Arkansas St

6. FIU

7. North Texas

8. Western Kentucky

WAC

1. Boise St

2. Nevada

3. Fresno St

4. Idaho

5. Hawaii

6. Louisiana Tech

7. Utah St

8. New Mexico St

9. San Jose St

10. Iowa St

MAC

1. Akron

2. Can't St

3. Marshall

4. Ohio

5. Miami

6. Buffalo

7. Temple

--

8. Central Michigan

9. Western Michigan

10. Eastern Michigan

11. Northern Illinois

12. Ball St

13. Toledo

14. Bowling Green

[Blue & Gold]

Good post, ZippyTuba11.

Does anyone else think the ACC may once again threaten the Big East if they would go ahead and expand to 16 teams by adding UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers & West Virginia? I think that's a real possibility. The schools are geographic fits and would enable the ACC to own the coveted NY/New England media markets.

New ACC:

ACC North:

1. Boston College

2. UConn

3. Syracuse

4. Rutgers

5. West Virginia

6. Virginia

7. Virginia Tech

8. Maryland

ACC South:

1. North Carolina

2. NC State

3. Wake Forest

4. Duke

5. Clemson

6. Georgia Tech

7. Florida State

8. Miami

[Zipmeister]

The big question in all this is will Iowa State be willing to give up BCS status and join the MAC.

[Ryno aka Menace]

Iowa St wasn't going bowling staying in the Big12, last year was one of the better years. Side note LOL I know Turner Gill is probably thinking Damnit I move to a BCS school, and now the school may move out of the BCS. *speculating Kansas goes to the Mountain West*

[Zip Watcher]

My guess is that they may not have to give up BCS. If the Big 12 implodes, with 4 or 5 teams left over, they can merge with the upper crust of the MWC & Boise State to create a league that is still a BCS league.

The key is probably Missouri. If Missouri doesn't get or take the Big 10 invite, the league will have a constant membership of 5 members, which means it can poach members of the MWC & Boise to get up to 10 or 12, keep its certification of continual existence intact and move forward as a BCS league .. won't be any weaker than the Big East in FB.

Now if Missouri goes to the Big 10 .. that could leave only 4 Big 12 schools in the lurch. They'd likely be forced to go the other way & seek membership in the MWC or C-USA. MWC is on the doorstep of BCS-dom anyway .. so it likely won't leave these 4 or 5 teams in a much different situation than they're in now as far as the BSC goes. Now TV revenue is another story.

Even if they lose continuity on the conference and have to patch a new one together, the only real penalty is the lack of automatic bids to NCAA championships. Doubt Kansas is worried about that for one year.

My vote is that the remaining 4 or 5 reach out to Boise, Utah, BYU, Texas Western, TCU, Houston, Rice & Memphis .. some combination of the MWC & Western C-USA teams to keep a 12 team league in that area of the country. It could trim the western half of C-USA down .. and force C-USA to do something. Boom goes the dynamite!

[UA Fan]

I just can't see Kansas & k-state in the Big East. Except for each other, every conference game would be a 1000-1500 mile trip. Times how many sports? That's hard on the students and the budget.

[Zip Watcher]

Since it's all the rage & I really need to waste some time at work, I present Zip Watcher's Optimal Scenario for Conference Realignment or ZWOSRC.

Pac-10 has moved first, pillaging the Big-12:

PAC-16:

Coastal:

Washington

Washington St.

Oregon

Oregon St.

Cal

Stanford

USC

UCLA

Southwest:

Az

AZ St.

Texas

Texas Tech

Texas A&M

Oklahoma

OK St.

Big-10 Moves next, beginning today & goes to 14:

East:

Penn St.

Ohio St.

Michigan

Michigan St.

Rutgers

Maryland

Northwestern (I know, but to preserve rivalries)

West:

Nebraska

Minnesota

Iowa

Wisconsin

Purdue

Indiana

Illinois

Big East continues to sit on their hands and fret. So the Big 12 resuscitates itself:

Medium 12:

Kansas

Kansas St.

Missouri

Iowa State

Baylor

Houston

TCU

Utah

BYU

Arkansas

SMU

Memphis

SEC Realizes they don't need Arkansas, but ought to join the party & grows to 16:

West:

LSU

Miss.

Miss. St

Alabama

Auburn

Vandy

Tennessee

Kentucky

East:

Florida

Georgia

Gerogia Tech

South Carolina

Clemson

Cincinnati

Louisville

West Virginia

ACC is stunned that Maryland, Tech and Clemson would leave & sharpens its pencil to stay @ 12:

North:

BC

UConn

Syracuse

Pitt

Virgina Tech

Virginia

South:

Dook

UNC

NC St.

Wake Forest

Florida St.

Miami

POOF goes the Big East FB conference. The remaining schools gather together at the Grottos @ ND and stick together with a few additions to maintain a monster hoops conference with the Pope on their side and no FB (previously discussed as the meTro conference, I think @ CBS):

meTro (12, non-FBS):

Georgetown

Villanova

St. Johns

Providence

Seton Hall

Notre Dame

Marquette

DePaul

Dayton

Xavier

Saint Louis

St. Joes (Philly)

Now, C-USA starts to stagger:

ECU jumps into the Atlantic and disappears.

Rice, Tulsa & UTEP go to the MWC for more $$$ and less travel.

Which leaves the following in the wind:

South Florida (Briefly BE)

UCF

Marshall

Tulane

UAB

Southern Miss

Alright, ECU

With 6 teams intact, C-USA can maintain continuity of existence. It's lost the Liberty Bowl, but still has some marketablility in football hungry towns. But they seriously need 5 teams to get to the magic 12 for a title game. Where do they look? There's only 2 places, MAC & Sun Belt. Both conferences have a few teams who would jump given the chance. They round up 2 from the Sun Belt, and Voila! Conference Its-A-New-Day needs 3 more FBS teams for a title game .. so 3 spots open up for the MAC. Temple is the first, leaving 2 to fight for:

New Conference USA:

Central

MAC1 - Temple

MAC2 - UA

MAC3 - UT

ECU

Western Kentucky

Middle Tennessee

South

Marshall

UAB

South Florida

Central Florida

Tulane

Southern Miss

At the end of the day, I really think the 4 teacher schools in Ohio aren't splitting up: OU, BG, Miami & Can't. CMU, WMU & EMU I think would stay in the MAC. Northern's an outlier geographically from some of this, and they also have a long history with the MAC.

UA & UT are pouring money into athletics & facilites. They're similar schools in setting and academics. I think UT & UA stick together to form a new heated rivalry and roll the dice on the new Conference USA.

This leaves a 10 team MAC, single division league, enabling a full 9+3 FB schedule & 18 game round robin in hoops:

U@B

Miami

OU

Can't

BG

WMU

CMU

EMU

Ball St.

NIU

I do think that if the MAC is touched it will be in a minor fashion like this. At its core I think the main 8 or 9 aren't going to move. Despite discussion of OU, something tells me they're not motivated to leave the comfort of Miami and the MAC.

Go Zips!!

[Wally B]

Entertaining and as accurate a guess as any! like your pairing/comparisson of UA/UT.......

Big ? is how is soccer in CUSA? As i see a gradual improvement in MAC soccer in the past few years i fear that will be lost in realignment! If it is CUSA lets hope it's one more geographically favorable to both UA/UT!

[mes102]

Boise State is going to announce today that they will be moving to the Mountain West Conference...

[johnnyzip84]

Boise State is going to announce today that they will be moving to the Mountain West Conference...

ESPN Link

The timing on this is interesting. The MWC must have been hoping for Colorado to team with CSU, but when the Buffs joined the PAC-whatever it was time to get Boise signed, sealed and delivered before someone else came calling.

[xu9697]

MAC (16)

EAST

Akron

Miami

Can't State

Ohio University

Buffalo

Marshall

Army

Navy

WEST

Bowling Green

Toledo

Ball State

Northern Illinois

Eastern Michigan

Central Michigan

Western Michigan

Western Kentucky

I think it would it would work. But what about Temple. I don't like that they are Football only.

It used to be that the MAC gave out 10 less scholarships that the big boys. The idea was that they were a "academic" conference first and did not want any ideas of challenging for a national championship. That changed in the 70s (I think) when they added 5 more scholarships. Does anyone know where the MAC stands today in regards to the # of scholarships it can gave out for football?? Is it still 5 less than the maximum for D1??

Rather than talk about moving to a bigger conference, I think we should work to regain the reputation on the MAC. If that means putting some on probation or dropping some, so be it. In the long run, it may be easier to fix the MAC that for Akron to wedge it's way into one of the emerging Mega conferences.

Temple, IMHO, is gone to Big East (if exists), CUSA or ACC if this seismic shift of 16 team conferences occurs. Sorry, should have made that more obvious. Their location in Philly and their basketball program, plus the fact they play in a large stadium make them, like it or not, more attractive than many other programs in MAC or other.

[ksu sucks]

This leaves a 10 team MAC, single division league, enabling a full 9+3 FB schedule & 18 game round robin in hoops:

I do think that if the MAC is touched it will be in a minor fashion like this. At its core I think the main 8 or 9 aren't going to move. Despite discussion of OU, something tells me they're not motivated to leave the comfort of Miami and the MAC.

Sounds good to me. Due to facilities, location(rural/suburban vs urban), and academics(undergrad focus vs grad/research) I can only think of three MAC schools with an outside shot of going anywhere:

1.Buffalo

2.Akron(t)

2.Toledo(t)

And you're right, it's unlikely that Ohio will leave. The good 'ol four corners schools will be the very last to ditch the MAC(read: they will never leave).

Big ? is how is soccer in CUSA? As i see a gradual improvement in MAC soccer in the past few years i fear that will be lost in realignment! If it is CUSA lets hope it's one more geographically favorable to both UA/UT!

Actually, C-USA soccer is somewhat better than the MAC. Tulsa finished #7 in the country last season. Akron would obviously still dominate, but the annual conference championships that we have become accustomed to in the MAC wouldn't be a sure thing. I don't see that as a negative.

[ZippyTuba11]

I just can't see Kansas & k-state in the Big East. Except for each other, every conference game would be a 1000-1500 mile trip. Times how many sports? That's hard on the students and the budget.

Actually both schools are about 300 miles closer to places like cincinnati, pitt, and west virginia than current member South Florida. For some of the more northerly members of the big east they are comparable and also provide better competition than south florida.

[ZippyTuba11]

Hmm Boise's move throws a wrench into my predictions. MWC is trying to make their conference more BCS worthy. Adding Boise and sniping a few decent schools from the former Big 12 will really strengthen their chances.

WAC won't be picking anybody up. They have already stated that they are looking at several FCS members to add.

I still would rather see Texas in the SEC than the PAC, but they have been making more and more hints that the PAC is their ideal conference. A&M on the other hand could be the deciding factor. They are still leaning towards the SEC.

The Big Ten appears to have decided to stop its expansion with Nebraska. I saw on ESPN recently that they notified the Big 12 commissioner about the Nebraska move and also told him that they would not be taking Missouri nor any other Big 12 team.

I think in the back of my mind I'm hoping that none of these conferences go 'mega' just yet. A few more years will give a school like Akron to make a few more adjustments yet in the hopes of getting absorbed into one of the bigger mergers. Right now, we don't have a chance.

[Spin]

When the trickle down gets to the MAC, and the C-USA's look to the MAC to replace schools taken up to second tier conferences, what are the chances of the MAC going after Cleveland State and Youngstown State or other Horizon League programs?

The MAC is the bottom of the FBS food chain, and if "higher" conferences are looking to FCS, will the MAC have to?

[GJGood]

I wouldn't be stunned if Temple was courted by the Big Ten. On the surface I know that brings a big question mark but when you think about it that would open up the Philadelphia TV market, create a natural rival for Penn State, and add a very solid basketball program to the "we're not football only" Big Ten mix.

Also, if West Virginia was to move then why the SEC? That seems like a better Big Ten fit as well.

The interesting "trickle down" in all of this to me is what happens to the Big East. In order to remain on par with the other BCS conferences they will need a championship game and hence 12 teams. They are already short of that and if anyone defects they would have even more work to do. They may be forced to look in the direction of the MAC and C-USA.

[ksu sucks]

I wouldn't be stunned if Temple was courted by the Big Ten. On the surface I know that brings a big question mark but when you think about it that would open up the Philadelphia TV market, create a natural rival for Penn State, and add a very solid basketball program to the "we're not football only" Big Ten mix.

I suppose anything is possible. But that seems pretty outlandish at this point.

Also, if West Virginia was to move then why the SEC? That seems like a better Big Ten fit as well.

Big 10 presidents were pissed after they added Nebraska. They felt their academics were too weak. Sorry, but WVU doesn't bring the academics to the table.

[UA Fan]

I just can't see Kansas & k-state in the Big East. Except for each other, every conference game would be a 1000-1500 mile trip. Times how many sports? That's hard on the students and the budget.

Actually both schools are about 300 miles closer to places like cincinnati, pitt, and west virginia than current member South Florida. For some of the more northerly members of the big east they are comparable and also provide better competition than south florida.

USF fans can't even pile in the car for a 1-1.5 day conference road game trip and I doubt if the teams can bus/van very often. I'm sure USF would jump at the chance to join the ACC to be in a closer league. If the remaining B12 merges w/the BE at least they could form a western division among themselves along w/Cinci & Louisville which would "only" be about 650 miles distant.

What's kind of funny is most of the BCS conferences screwed themselves name-wise by including the area or number of members. CUSA got it right...maximum flexibility! New conferences would be wise to learn the lesson.

[Zip Watcher]

By virtue of Penn State being in the Big Ten, the BTN is already on most TV's in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. To me, that means both Temple and Pitt are unlikely fits for the Big Ten's expansion strategy. They bring zero new TV sets to the table.