Second round of conference expansion is beginning.

[Dave in Green]

I think the potential merger of what's left of the Big East and the Big 12 has already been mentioned somewhere on ZN.O.But the really interesting new twist is the reported merger talk between Conference USA and Mountain West to create a 22- to 24-team conference. Where will this all end, and is it really good for college football or just for ESPN?MWC, CUSA discuss first super, duper conference

[GP1]

Where will this all end, and is it really good for college football or just for ESPN?

It will be good for both with a few exceptions such as WVU and TCU not getting in a Super Duper Conference (SDC). You're too smart of a guy DiG not to realize it never ends. It will just become something else and then the "else" will change.

[UAZipster0305]

I think the potential merger of what's left of the Big East and the Big 12 has already been mentioned somewhere on ZN.O.But the really interesting new twist is the reported merger talk between Conference USA and Mountain West to create a 22- to 24-team conference. Where will this all end, and is it really good for college football or just for ESPN?MWC, CUSA discuss first super, duper conference

I brought it up earlier in this thread where I forecast how all this might shake out.

[Dave in Green]

Sorry I missed your earlier reference, trimmy10. And, yes, GP1, I know there's no end. Somebody, somewhere is probably already brainstorming the next phase.

[johnnyzip84]

Hold everything. The PAC-12 decides that Texas and its Longhorn Network are too much trouble.So maybe TCU goes to the Big 12 (10)? Will the ACC stop at 14? There are still a lot of TBDs.

[K92]

The PAC-12 had an opportunity to (arguably) create a conference to challenge SEC supremacy. They could have been the first conference to 16. They could have created the best divisions in CFB, with the old PAC-8 on one side (Cal, USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon, OSU, Washington, WSU) and all the "expansion teams" on the other (Arizona, ASU, Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma, OSU, Texas, TTU). The potential battles to win the divisions would be fantastic and the championship game matchups could be monumental.However when the PAC powers that be sat down and laid it all out on the table, all the positives could not overcome the one snag in the deal...putting up with Texas' arrogance and bullshit.

[Dave in Green]

It's going to be especially entertaining to watch where Texas ends up in all of this. All of the other schools have agreed to split their TV revenue equally throughout their conferences. But Texas thinks they're above all that. They've got the biggest single school TV deal with their Longhorn Network, and the greed behind refusing to share any of that money is a powerful motivator.When you see a college football power as big as Oklahoma refusing to remain in a conference with Texas unless Texas agrees to share their TV revenue, it makes you wonder if all the other major football powers are going to come to the same conclusion and play ditch Texas. If Texas doesn't agree to fold the Longhorn Network into someone's conference, they could end up as an independent or in a lesser conference with lesser schools that didn't make it into one of the elite conferences.I have to admit that whether or not all of this is good for the overall health of college football, watching the ruthless maneuvering of greedy people from a distance can be entertaining, like watching J.R. Ewing and associates in the old Dallas TV series.

[Zip Watcher]

Hold everything. The PAC-12 decides that Texas and its Longhorn Network are too much trouble.So maybe TCU goes to the Big 12 (10)? Will the ACC stop at 14? There are still a lot of TBDs.

*$*%^!@#! :wall:

[zippy5]

It's going to be especially entertaining to watch where Texas ends up in all of this. All of the other schools have agreed to split their TV revenue equally throughout their conferences. But Texas thinks they're above all that. They've got the biggest single school TV deal with their Longhorn Network, and the greed behind refusing to share any of that money is a powerful motivator.When you see a college football power as big as Oklahoma refusing to remain in a conference with Texas unless Texas agrees to share their TV revenue, it makes you wonder if all the other major football powers are going to come to the same conclusion and play ditch Texas. If Texas doesn't agree to fold the Longhorn Network into someone's conference, they could end up as an independent or in a lesser conference with lesser schools that didn't make it into one of the elite conferences.I have to admit that whether or not all of this is good for the overall health of college football, watching the ruthless maneuvering of greedy people from a distance can be entertaining, like watching J.R. Ewing and associates in the old Dallas TV series.

same as ND. They'll eventually get what they want.Though I would love to see both left out in the cold.

[Spin]

I've been thinking more about this C-USA MW merger. Why not include the MAC and the WAC, and just create a superconference that is itself a midmajor sublevel of football?Have an 4 team playoff with the three games each a contracted bowl game?You still get the bowl money, FWIW. You still get on TV. You still get to go to your annual beat-down-for-cash with the BCS schools.Each conference can maintain independance in basketball and other sports, and keep their automatic bids. But football is tied together.And everyone who wants a true playoff system in college football has a higher level of national championship game to watch.And those teams playing at a high level can spotlight for a chance at a BCS conference slot, or a bigger $$ bowl game.Then, you sell out to an up-and-coming network like "NBC Sports" (formerly Versus). Get in now while the gettin's good.Might be the best choice for those left behind...

[GP1]

Looks like Oklahoma and Texas are backing off. Either waiting to see if the Big 12 can regroup or holding out to see what kind of offer they can get. Actually, this may make those two the big fishes in a small pond.Seems like the frenzy is slowing.

[xu9697]

The greed of Texas is just outrageous. The reason that the Big 12 is not moving back to 12 schools is 99% about Texas and Texas vs. Oklahoma as the yearly defacto championship game.Even if Missouri leaves, Big 12 could EASILY go and get 4 other schools that would at least bring SOMETHING back to the conference as a whole...but no way is Texas allowing that.WHAT SHOULD happen is Big 12 should get the next best group of programs out there in the general area (BYU, TCU, Boise and either Houston or SMU) and the Big East should grab the next 6 best football options (after losing TCU, Pitt and SU) to add to the 6 remaining schools (WVU, Lville, Cinci, Rutgers, UConn and South Florida). UCF, ECU, Southern Miss, Temple would be the starting points. If Navy and Army agree (football only), there you go= 12 football schools, 18 basketball schools.Even though it is NO LONGER about regions...a combo of BE and leftover Big 12 still basically becomes 2 conferences in one. So if Texas would just limit the greed a bit and allow that conference to grow to 12, this whole thing would settle down a bit more.

[johnnyzip84]

One guy's tongue-in-cheek view of college football in 2020.Check the Big 10 expansion teams

[GP1]

TCU tells Big East, "Just kidding". Looks like they will go to the Big 12. Developing.....

A while back, I used to tell everyone the MAC would be better off if it reduced the number of teams in the league to around 10. Is the Big 12 going to be better or worse losing Colorado and TX A&M and replacing only one school with TCU? I say yes...a smaller, more competitive league is always better than a big non-competitive league.

Let's be honest, these moves are being made for football, so let me ask the following. How is the competition in the SEC better with TX A&M? How is the Pac Whatever better with Colorado? How is the ACC better with Pitt and Syracuse? I'm not saying they are worse, they just aren't more competitive. The Big 12 is the only conference that got smaller AND better/more competitive by adding TCU. They may have just positioned themselves to be the winner in this game of musical chairs.

I still don't understand why the MAC isn't trying to get smaller. My only concern is if football is driving college athletics, we might be one of the schools on the outside looking in.

We all understand these moves are not about creating better competition; if they were, the leagues would be looking to get smaller. They are about creating more games which creates more television money.

[Zip Watcher]

Seems to me the best way this can help the Zips would be if the Catholics decide to take their BB and go away from the BE FB side.

If those 8 teams were to stick together and add 2 or 4 more, they could have a 10/12 team league that still demands 6+ bids to the NCAA tournament every year, and has the networks falling all over themselves to get a Weekend National TV contract in place.

Most likely 2 to take would have to be Dayton & Xavier. Next 2 in line maybe St. Louis & Duquesne .. or they could reach over to Creighton. Duquesne brings a good TV market.

Losing Dayton and Xavier might gut the A10 enough to push Temple & UMass to consider the MAC for everything. This presumes that there is no BE FB left with defections to the ACC (UConn & Rutgers, maybe SFla to replace FSU), SEC (WVU) and Big12 (UC & Louisville). IF the BE isn't around to be grabbing ECU, UCF & Temple .. what reasonable option do they have.

That's about the best way this chaos can benefit the Zips. Moves MAC hoops upstream slightly.

[johnnyzip84]

TCU tells Big East, "Just kidding". Looks like they will go to the Big 12. Developing.....

A while back, I used to tell everyone the MAC would be better off if it reduced the number of teams in the league to around 10. Is the Big 12 going to be better or worse losing Colorado and TX A&M and replacing only one school with TCU? I say yes...a smaller, more competitive league is always better than a big non-competitive league.

Let's be honest, these moves are being made for football, so let me ask the following. How is the competition in the SEC better with TX A&M? How is the Pac Whatever better with Colorado? How is the ACC better with Pitt and Syracuse? I'm not saying they are worse, they just aren't more competitive. The Big 12 is the only conference that got smaller AND better/more competitive by adding TCU. They may have just positioned themselves to be the winner in this game of musical chairs.

I still don't understand why the MAC isn't trying to get smaller. My only concern is if football is driving college athletics, we might be one of the schools on the outside looking in.

We all understand these moves are not about creating better competition; if they were, the leagues would be looking to get smaller. They are about creating more games which creates more television money.

CNNSI Story

I think this highlights just how difficult it's going to be for 40, 56, 64, or whatever number of teams to effectively break away from the pack and form another division or organization. Five years ago, would you have put TCU in the "super-conference"? I'm starting to think that the whole super-conference thing has been overhyped, and the college football landscape, while certainly different, will nonetheless avoid undergoing a major, structural change.

[GP1]

I think this highlights just how difficult it's going to be for 40, 56, 64, or whatever number of teams to effectively break away from the pack and form another division or organization.

The BCS conferences could leave the Big East behind tomorrow and start their own division. The quality of competition would be increased by not allowing those schools to have 2 rent a win games a year. Better competition would create more viewers. More viewers creates more ad money, which is why these schools are doing what they are doing. Waiting for the next TCU to come along is a waste of time for them.

TCU lived through a period where they had lightning in a bottle. Now that that gingerhead QB is gone, they won't be as good. They have already lost to Baylor and SMU....SMU. They may have had their day. It's one thing to play New Mexico, BYU, CO State and UNLV every week. It's another thing to play Oklahoma, Texas, they already lost to Baylor and the rest of the Big 12 every week. They will be a middle of he road Big 12 team.

[Zip Watcher]

I think this highlights just how difficult it's going to be for 40, 56, 64, or whatever number of teams to effectively break away from the pack and form another division or organization.

The BCS conferences could leave the Big East behind tomorrow and start their own division. The quality of competition would be increased by not allowing those schools to have 2 rent a win games a year. Better competition would create more viewers. More viewers creates more ad money, which is why these schools are doing what they are doing. Waiting for the next TCU to come along is a waste of time for them.

TCU lived through a period where they had lightning in a bottle. Now that that gingerhead QB is gone, they won't be as good. They have already lost to Baylor and SMU....SMU. They may have had their day. It's one thing to play New Mexico, BYU, CO State and UNLV every week. It's another thing to play Oklahoma, Texas, they already lost to Baylor and the rest of the Big 12 every week. They will be a middle of he road Big 12 team.

They've got some more work to do .. but the foundations are there. There was a good interview I read this morning with the TCU coach. His take was essentially that: "Our top line guys can play at this level right now, we've seen that in the bowl games, winning at Oklahoma .. etc. What we need to do now, and what this affiliation will help with, is getting more depth. Now we can recruit more depth .. and as we do that over the next couple of years, we hope to move upward." Paraphrasing entirely.

I'm interested in how this works out for TCU. They were left behind when the Big 12 was formed because their commitment / facilities / competitiveness in the Southwest Conference weren't at the level of Texas and .. ugh .. Baylor (?). Now they've had 10 years of infrastructure and success on the field. It'll be interesting to see how it goes the second time around.

Mack Rhoades probably isn't ecstatic today. I have to believe that the Big 12 will limit itself to 4 Texas members. Sort of figured that UH would be called up to the Big Leagues first, given the absence of the Houston area in the Big 12 .. but with UT, it probably doesn't matter.

Go Zips!

[Zipmeister]

Seems to me the best way this can help the Zips would be if the Catholics decide to take their BB and go away from the BE FB side.

If those 8 teams were to stick together and add 2 or 4 more, they could have a 10/12 team league that still demands 6+ bids to the NCAA tournament every year, and has the networks falling all over themselves to get a Weekend National TV contract in place.

Most likely 2 to take would have to be Dayton & Xavier. Next 2 in line maybe St. Louis & Duquesne .. or they could reach over to Creighton. Duquesne brings a good TV market.

Losing Dayton and Xavier might gut the A10 enough to push Temple & UMass to consider the MAC for everything. This presumes that there is no BE FB left with defections to the ACC (UConn & Rutgers, maybe SFla to replace FSU), SEC (WVU) and Big12 (UC & Louisville). IF the BE isn't around to be grabbing ECU, UCF & Temple .. what reasonable option do they have.

That's about the best way this chaos can benefit the Zips. Moves MAC hoops upstream slightly.

The catholic conference idea is tremendous. I think they should call the new league the Great Midwest Conference.

Re the A10...

Would it really GUT a 16 team conference to lose 2 teams?

[Zip Watcher]

The idea was first proposed by a guy @ CBS .. don't have the link anymore, but it was about 2 years ago. Called it the meTro.

Not just any 2 teams, but losing Xavier & Dayton would be a big hit to that league. Xavier is a high major program in the A10, much the way Temple used to be under Cheney.

It'd lessen the luster of the A10 slightly I think.

This isn't to presume a breakup of the A10 would ensue .. I'm merely musing that perhaps with the Big East dissolved, and no other real FBS options available, Temple and UMass might be more motivated to go all in with the MAC with Xavier gone from the A10.

After the Zips make the first of three consecutive Final Four appearances this spring, things will look even better to Temple and UMass.

Go Zips!

[GP1]

Mack Rhoades probably isn't ecstatic today.

Schedule and Results

Mack's got himself a nice season going on with his football program. Very favorable schedule, which is a sign of a good AD. Undefeated with a win over UCLA (not that beating UCLA is that hard). Two wins were very close, but they pulled them out. Next three games look favorable as they are at home....I saw ECU play and they have loses to USCarolina, UNC and VA Tech....in the game in all three. If Houston can win this game, the schedule gets easier and they may crack the Top 25. If they go on a nice run, we may see Mack at another school in the future depending on what opens up. This is just speculation, but Mack is a clean cut guy and there is a HUGE school in Ohio that needs to clean up its athletic department by getting rid of the AD....Hmmmmm. Actually, if Mike Thomas would have just waited one more year, he could have fallen into that job easily.

[Dave in Green]

Now this is an ugly charge that should create a buzz:

Did ESPN fuel Big East's demise? You can bet Big East thinks so

[johnnyzip84]

Now this is an ugly charge that should create a buzz:

Did ESPN fuel Big East's demise? You can bet Big East thinks so

Wow, that's definitely an interesting read. It's certainly plausible that ESPN not only inserted the knife into the back of the Big East, but also gave it a nice twist or two. If true, this is one of those "truth is stranger than fiction" moments. For old farts like me, Big East hoops and an infant ESPN basically grew up together in as symbiotic of a relationship as TV sports fans had witnessed up until that time (early to mid 80's). To think one of them may have dealt the death knell to the other is a little unsettling, but completely believable.

[ZachTheZip]

TCU is now officially in the Big 12. They accepted the invite and will play there starting next season.

Also of interest is that the Big East's presidents had a conference call today and passed a resolution to invite six more schools in order to get to 12 and hold a conference championship game. It's likely that more than a few will be football-only. If Villanova is one, that helps keep the basketball side from getting too gigantic. Rumored to be on the short list are ECU, UCF, Temple, and all three Service Academies.

[GP1]

For old farts like me, Big East hoops and an infant ESPN basically grew up together in as symbiotic of a relationship as TV sports fans had witnessed up until that time (early to mid 80's).

Nice trip down memory lane. I fondly remember those days when there was only on ESPN and to play on Monday night was huge deal. Now, playing on ESPN is just another TV game.