Perfect arena for the Zips

[Dr Z]

It's sickening how the soccer team gets so much respect from the fans but the basketball team gets none.

I think it is disappointing to see the current student turnout for the basketball games, but comparing them to soccer is insane. Soccer deserves all the student support in the world. They are proven winners. They are ranked #1 in the NATION. They play a tough schedule. They bring in top 20 teams to Akron. When the basketball team starts going deep in the tournament bracket and brings in top 20 teams, I GUARANTEE you will see tons of student support.

[GP1]

If the basketball team was in private business, would they get money for a new manufacturing facility?

The answer to this question is no. Their existing factory is enough to support their manufacturing needs. When they prove they can sell out the JAR on a regular basis, they can have a new factory with more and better seats. Until then, enjoy the back pains that come with the JAR. In a sane and adult world, this is how it should be treated.

If they Zips go off and sell out the JAR over and over again, by all means they should get a new arena.

At the end of the day, I don't think TW has clue one as to how to start moving the ball forward on a new arena even if the Zips were selling out every game.

[Roo]

It's sickening how the soccer team gets so much respect from the fans but the basketball team gets none.

I think it is disappointing to see the current student turnout for the basketball games, but comparing them to soccer is insane. Soccer deserves all the student support in the world. They are proven winners. They are ranked #1 in the NATION. They play a tough schedule. They bring in top 20 teams to Akron. When the basketball team starts going deep in the tournament bracket and brings in top 20 teams, I GUARANTEE you will see tons of student support.

It's not a knock on the soccer team, I love soccer, played it, hell I just got back from a FC Barcelona match in Spain a couple weeks back.

The point is, they make a niche there but there isn't one for the basketball team.

And to the above, it's juvenile to base your crowd support on calling players thugs or looking up personal things about them. How about the traditional chanting or making noise? Take a cue from Duke, they never shut up or sit down. I am sure police and what not would not have an issue with that.

[UA Fan]

If the basketball team was in private business, would they get money for a new manufacturing facility?

The answer to this question is no. Their existing factory is enough to support their manufacturing needs. When they prove they can sell out the JAR on a regular basis, they can have a new factory with more and better seats. Until then, enjoy the back pains that come with the JAR. In a sane and adult world, this is how it should be treated.

If they Zips go off and sell out the JAR over and over again, by all means they should get a new arena.

At the end of the day, I don't think TW has clue one as to how to start moving the ball forward on a new arena even if the Zips were selling out every game.

I would say the JAR is not manufacturing enough attendance and therefore an upgrade is needed. It could only help with recruiting as well. When we will have the money is another issue, but I see the JAR as a 30-year arena, not a 50-year+ arena. It could have been more if it hadn't been scaled back during the severe early 80's recession. NIU and Toledo have recently upgraded, as is BGSU...I don't know that they were consistently selling out their old places. With Infocision and the soccer stadium done, what's next on the facilities plate?

[Quickzips]

If the basketball team was in private business, would they get money for a new manufacturing facility?

The answer to this question is no. Their existing factory is enough to support their manufacturing needs. When they prove they can sell out the JAR on a regular basis, they can have a new factory with more and better seats. Until then, enjoy the back pains that come with the JAR. In a sane and adult world, this is how it should be treated.

If they Zips go off and sell out the JAR over and over again, by all means they should get a new arena.

At the end of the day, I don't think TW has clue one as to how to start moving the ball forward on a new arena even if the Zips were selling out every game.

I would say the JAR is not manufacturing enough attendance and therefore an upgrade is needed. It could only help with recruiting as well. When we will have the money is another issue, but I see the JAR as a 30-year arena, not a 50-year+ arena. It could have been more if it hadn't been scaled back during the severe early 80's recession. NIU and Toledo have recently upgraded, as is BGSU...I don't know that they were consistently selling out their old places. With Infocision and the soccer stadium done, what's next on the facilities plate?

It's kind of an interesting "chicken or the egg" question. Or maybe it would be better characterized as "if you build it WILL they come?" I dunno, but I tend to side with GP1 a little on this one. Until we start regularly filling what we have, significant upgrades/building new doesn't seem to be a very wise idea. I don't buy the overwhelming need for chairbacks all the way around. I don't think that is at all what is keeping students and the community away. Students are packing the soccer stadium to stand the entire game, and the community has come out to support that team on metal bleachers in an outdoor venue. I don't think the wooden bleachers are exactly the problem. The bottom line is that the team needs to start beating some bigger name programs to start getting the attention of the community. Wins over Arkansas-Pine Bluff, Valparaiso and most of this watered down conference we find ourselves in just doesn't excite anyone. We need to start beating some bigger programs. Even wins this year over teams like Dayton, Temple, Minnesota and Miami(FL) would be a big help. If we start getting wins like that (and I do believe we are plenty capable of it), then you will start to see student and community support grow. At that time we can re-visit the idea of renovating the JAR or expanding to a new facility.

[Dave in Green]

The soccer team is great, and many people would come to watch them play in a cornfield.

The football team is awful, and fewer and fewer people are coming to watch them play in a nice, new, on-campus stadium.

The basketball team is neither great nor awful. But they're certainly an above average team drawing below average crowds to a below average facility.

New basketball facilities alone might help draw a few additional fans, but likely not a major increase. They might also help a little on recruiting, where the quality of the facilities might make the difference to talented recruits between choosing to sign with the Zips or similar programs at other schools with much nicer facilities. Attracting another top recruit or two might make the basketball program a little stronger and produce more wins, which in turn might be expected to draw more fans.

Regularly winning big games in nice facilities in front of sell-out crowds is everyone's dream for any sports program. These factors are all interdependent to some degree. The question is, what's the best path to achieving critical mass?

UA was forced to build a new football stadium. The Rubber Bowl was crumbling and repairs would have been prohibitively costly. The alternative would have been to drop football entirely. So we know that UA is committed to maintaining a football program in the coming years, though we don't yet know at what level.

UA did not have to build new soccer facilities. But having the best college soccer program in the country with sell-out crowds merited new facilities. Fortunately, soccer facilities are relatively inexpensive compared with football and basketball. Having climbed all the way to the top of the sport of soccer, it would have been ludicrous for UA not to make the modest investment required to help retain the top coach, top recruits and top ranking.

We know that some schools with modest or no football programs have invested heavily in basketball and become national powers (Gonzaga, Butler, etc.). But there are no guarantees. It's possible to blow a lot of money on sports facilities and not get the rest of the equation right to become a national power.

We don't really know where UA stands on this. If the longterm commitment is to maintain the basketball program at its current level, then just keep re-signing KD and make some modest improvements to the JAR before it falls to the level of the Rubber Bowl and scares lots of fans and recruits away. If the longterm commitment is to grow the basketball program to a high level, new facilities have to be somewhere in the picture.

It's not only fair to discuss what the new facilities should be like and how soon they should be built, it's mandatory as part of any plan to grow the program.

[Quickzips]

The soccer team is great, and many people would come to watch them play in a cornfield.

The football team is awful, and fewer and fewer people are coming to watch them play in a nice, new, on-campus stadium.

The basketball team is neither great nor awful. But they're certainly an above average team drawing below average crowds to a below average facility.

New basketball facilities alone might help draw a few additional fans, but likely not a major increase. They might also help a little on recruiting, where the quality of the facilities might make the difference to talented recruits between choosing to sign with the Zips or similar programs at other schools with much nicer facilities. Attracting another top recruit or two might make the basketball program a little stronger and produce more wins, which in turn might be expected to draw more fans.

Regularly winning big games in nice facilities in front of sell-out crowds is everyone's dream for any sports program. These factors are all interdependent to some degree. The question is, what's the best path to achieving critical mass?

UA was forced to build a new football stadium. The Rubber Bowl was crumbling and repairs would have been prohibitively costly. The alternative would have been to drop football entirely. So we know that UA is committed to maintaining a football program in the coming years, though we don't yet know at what level.

UA did not have to build new soccer facilities. But having the best college soccer program in the country with sell-out crowds merited new facilities. Fortunately, soccer facilities are relatively inexpensive compared with football and basketball. Having climbed all the way to the top of the sport of soccer, it would have been ludicrous for UA not to make the modest investment required to help retain the top coach, top recruits and top ranking.

We know that some schools with modest or no football programs have invested heavily in basketball and become national powers (Gonzaga, Butler, etc.). But there are no guarantees. It's possible to blow a lot of money on sports facilities and not get the rest of the equation right to become a national power.

We don't really know where UA stands on this. If the longterm commitment is to maintain the basketball program at its current level, then just keep re-signing KD and make some modest improvements to the JAR before it falls to the level of the Rubber Bowl and scares lots of fans and recruits away. If the longterm commitment is to grow the basketball program to a high level, new facilities have to be somewhere in the picture.

It's not only fair to discuss what the new facilities should be like and how soon they should be built, it's mandatory as part of any plan to grow the program.

The basketball program really is stuck in some weird sort of limbo between where the soccer team is (sustained success at the very top of the sport) and where the football team is (terrible with no real end in sight). The basketball team has managed to sustain a level of moderate success well above what the football program has even imagined, but they are not even really in the same zip code as the soccer program. That said, the reason for new facilities for the soccer and football programs don't really apply to the basketball program. The JAR, for all it's faults, is still a structurally sound, on-campus facility (unlike the Rubber Bowl) and the demand to see the team is not high enough to warrant it (unlike the soccer program). In the end, the basketball program is going to have to take the soccer-style approach of winning at a higher level in order to warrant new facilities. The University doesn't have the funds to justify a brand new arena for a program that isn't filling the JAR simply on the hopes that we will see a "few additional fans" and get a "little help in recruiting." Especially where the JAR is a structurally sound facility located on-campus.

[ZachTheZip]

Upgrading the JAR affects more than just men's basketball. It also helps women's basketball and volleyball. Just like the soccer stadium also helps women's soccer.

Think of it as a three-sport investment. Both women's basketball and volleyball are on the rise, and all three sports using the JAR are what the MAC has identified as "cornerstone" sports, the other being football. Upgrading the JAR means investing into 3 out of 4 of the most important sports in the MAC, and maybe giving them the boost they need to push things up a level.

The JAR isn't terrible as is, but an upgrade can be done relatively cheap; the design allows for lots of potential improvements. It's not unworkable like the rubber Bowl was and it gets much more use by the athletes.

[Quickzips]

Upgrading the JAR affects more than just men's basketball. It also helps women's basketball and volleyball. Just like the soccer stadium also helps women's soccer.

Think of it as a three-sport investment. Both women's basketball and volleyball are on the rise, and all three sports using the JAR are what the MAC has identified as "cornerstone" sports, the other being football. Upgrading the JAR means investing into 3 out of 4 of the most important sports in the MAC, and maybe giving them the boost they need to push things up a level.

The JAR isn't terrible as is, but an upgrade can be done relatively cheap; the design allows for lots of potential improvements. It's not unworkable like the rubber Bowl was and it gets much more use by the athletes.

Let's make one thing clear. If the JAR is ever upgraded, or a new arena is ever built, it will be primarily for the purposes of furthering the men's basketball program. Unless you are having the kind of success in women's basketball or volleyball that our men's soccer program is having, you simply don't make significant facilities upgrades for those programs. I don't care what this half-assed joke of a conference calls them. It would be like refurbishing your garage so that you can better protect your 1995 Honda Civic. Now the Civic may be a fine car, and it has gotten you down the road safely and effectively for years, but you don't need a brand new, climate-controlled garage with a high tech security system, custom treated floors and all the bells and whistles to house the thing. If, on the other hand, you have a 1967 Corvette in mint condition that regularly takes first prize in local car shows and is the envy of your neighborhood, but the '95 Civic is your every-day, drive around town car, then you go ahead and make the big improvements to your garage in order to house the '67 Vette while the '95 Civic gets to reap the benefits as well. For purposes of this example, men's hoops is (hopefully one day) the '67 Vette, Women's Hoops and Volleyball are the '95 Civic. Currently however, the men's hoops program is more like that '89 Mustang you got on your 18th birthday. Nice car, with a lot of sentimental value for you, and definitly worth protecting, but the garage you have now serves the purposes just fine.

[ZachTheZip]

Of course the main reason would be for men's basketball. I just wanted to point out that there are other things in consideration as well. It becomes easier to justify an expense or to gather donations when you say it will benefit more than one sport. It also keeps the Title IX zealots off your back.

[Dr Z]

Let's make one thing clear. If the JAR is ever upgraded, or a new arena is ever built, it will be primarily for the purposes of furthering the men's basketball program

I actually chuckled when I read that. Volleyball.

[Quickzips]

Of course the main reason would be for men's basketball. I just wanted to point out that there are other things in consideration as well. It becomes easier to justify an expense or to gather donations when you say it will benefit more than one sport. It also keeps the Title IX zealots off your back.

Bring-Bring:

President of Company: Hello?

Tom Wistricill: Hi, this is University of Akron Athletics Director Tom Wistricill.

Pres.: Ohh, hi, how are you?

TW: Very well thank you, yourself?

Pres.: Doing alright, I suppose, can I help you with something?

TW: Well, we are looking to build a new arena on campus to house some of our fall and winter sports, and we are wondering if you would be interested in buying the naming rights to this arena?

Pres.: What kind of sports?

TW: Well, the women's volleyball and basketball team for starters.

Pres.: Uhh-huh.......well, how much would this cost?

TW: Naming rights for the new arena would cost in the area of $10 million to have your name on the facilities for eight years (just pulling numbers out of thin air here)

Pres.: Not interested.

TW: Wait, wait, did I forget to mention that the arena will house our men's basketball program as well?

Pres.: I believe you did.

TW: Yeah, well, as you might know, we have a pretty successful men's basketball program around here, next year we will be playing six games on the ESPN family of networks and eight more on Fox Sports Net and Sportstime Ohio (just pulling numbers out of thin air again here guys). We also regularly draw 6,000 people to our existing facility after our big wins back in the 2010-11 season.

Pres.: Hmmm....now that I might be interested in.

Seriously though, I understand your point, but I really doubt that volleyball and women's hoops will be more than an incidental beneficiary if this ever gets off the ground.

[akzipper]

People don't realize a new arena could be used for more than Zips sports. High schools and obviously the cavs, Lebron's crap, concerts, and other events and shows. It's not just 3 sports. Why do you think Summa and Infocision payed millions? for a stadium that houses a team that won't win a game this year? No. Infocision stadium is the largest and nicest stadium in this area, an arena could have the same effect. It would be "the place" to have BIG events.

[Quickzips]

People don't realize a new arena could be used for more than Zips sports. High schools and obviously the cavs, Lebron's crap, concerts, and other events and shows. It's not just 3 sports. Why do you think Summa and Infocision payed millions? for a stadium that houses a team that won't win a game this year? No. Infocision stadium is the largest and nicest stadium in this area, an arena could have the same effect. It would be "the place" to have BIG events.

I'm going to extend my garage analogy out to the nearly absurd here, but...you also don't build the nice new fancy garage so that you son's garage band can practice in it and you so you can host back-yard barbeques.

[Dr Z]

I'm going to extend my garage analogy out to the nearly absurd here, but...you also don't build the nice new fancy garage so that you son's garage band can practice in it and you so you can host back-yard barbeques.

I saw Nirvana on Halloween back in 93 at the JAR.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I'm going to extend my garage analogy out to the nearly absurd here, but...you also don't build the nice new fancy garage so that you son's garage band can practice in it and you so you can host back-yard barbeques.

I saw Nirvana on Halloween back in 93 at the JAR.

I saw Ozzy @ the JAR back in 1990.

[akzipper]

People don't realize a new arena could be used for more than Zips sports. High schools and obviously the cavs, Lebron's crap, concerts, and other events and shows. It's not just 3 sports. Why do you think Summa and Infocision payed millions? for a stadium that houses a team that won't win a game this year? No. Infocision stadium is the largest and nicest stadium in this area, an arena could have the same effect. It would be "the place" to have BIG events.

I'm going to extend my garage analogy out to the nearly absurd here, but...you also don't build the nice new fancy garage so that you son's garage band can practice in it and you so you can host back-yard barbeques.

Look at some of the musicians CSU hosted up there....off the top of my head I remember hearing about Jay-Z and Carrie Underwood. There's no reason why that can't be us...

[Dr Z]

...hearing about Jay-Z and Carrie Underwood.

Randy Rhodes and Kurt Cobain just rolled over in their graves being likened to a Karaoke winner.

[akzipper]

...hearing about Jay-Z and Carrie Underwood.

Randy Rhodes and Kurt Cobain just rolled over in their graves being likened to a Karaoke winner.

nirvana?

[Bubba4three]

The arena shown has seats too far from the court. Circular only works if you can keep fans close to the court.

[Z.I.P.]

The arena shown has seats too far from the court. Circular only works if you can keep fans close to the court.

Welcome aboard the Zipsnation, B43. Interesting handle.

[Wally B]

Let me toss in a few quick and several big fixes for the jar.

Few Quickies

- Follow Duke and put student bleacher seats (plastic lumber molded to your posterior) behind the team benches.

- Chairbacks (reserved) around the rest of the lower bowl and replace gym doors on corners with 8' wide tunnels ramped down from appx 3rd row..

- Move all upper level seating forward eliminating track, thus moving all traffic under seating or to hallways and allowing several more rows if they fit under the roof. (Think WitchitaSt) You could even leave/lower the railing to divide upper/lower bowls (ala Duke)!!

- Make atleast all non-endzone upper level seating chairbacks.

Several bigs

- remove upstairs lounge and replace with atrium, escalators and additional elevators if needed/required!

- Replace upper level pullouts with permanent seating, creating more concession and restroom facilities and a new concourse!

- HUGE - this one will cost ya! Rework the supports for the roof and remove the corner stairwell towers Stairs remain as part of new upper level concourse, seating added to complete upper bowl!

You end up with a great/tight venue that is highly functional with additional seating!

could someone make this happen on photoshop???