Elbow - Intentional Fouls

[zippyfan34]

This is ridiculous. Zeke got called for it once against OU and again vs. Buffallo today. A Buffallo player also got whistled for one. These players aren't swinging their elbows or anything. They get the ball, pivot, and pass the ball to the other side and the defenders are up in their face and the elbow accidently hits them. I would call the foul on the defender most times because usually they are grabbing the arms. I know the officials are supposed to be emphazing this but I just don't understand. I'm done with my rant.

[RowdyZip]

This is ridiculous. Zeke got called for it once against OU and again vs. Buffallo today. A Buffallo player also got whistled for one. These players aren't swinging their elbows or anything. They get the ball, pivot, and pass the ball to the other side and the defenders are up in their face and the elbow accidently hits them. I would call the foul on the defender most times because usually they are grabbing the arms. I know the officials are supposed to be emphazing this but I just don't understand. I'm done with my rant.

Both of those calls were ridiculous. If you want to make a case for a personal foul, maybe. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY either of those should've been whistled as a flagrant/intentional foul. It's going to be a long season if Zeke gets one of those every game, plus it'll retard his development as Reghi and company said, "How can he be aggressive if he gets an intentional foul just from pivoting at the top of the key?"

[RowdyZip]

Oh. And can I add that this is a ridiculously poorly produced show. I love being able to watch an away MAC game on TV, but come on. The only thing missing from the young lady doing the halftime show was a round of, "And boom goes the dynamite!" Nothing like other game highlights delivered with such stunning description of, " And he drove the lane for the easy two. Then he passed out side and he hit the long range three!" Who would've guessed there were so many D1 players with the last name "He." Ad to that several poor cuts, including one at halftime to ANOTHER GAME rather than the empty court at Buffalo. Ugh. MAC=CRAP.

[RootforRoo44]

Is it me or did a few posts disappear from this thread?

[RootforRoo44]

I'm beginning to really think the MAC is against us. This is unbelievable. First the elbow BS and now this.

[RowdyZip]

I'm beginning to really think the MAC is against us. This is unbelievable. First the elbow BS and now this.

What were you referring to?

However, a BS around the rim and in three...

[cjapsu]

I'm beginning to really think the MAC is against us. This is unbelievable. First the elbow BS and now this.

What were you referring to?

However, a BS around the rim and in three...

Yeah, the basketball gods are against us today - we have no hope if the ball continues to bounce nowhere but Buffalo's way. Retarded 3s bouncing forty times and then going in and missed free throws that are bouncing directly into Buffalo's hands.

[RootforRoo44]

I'm beginning to really think the MAC is against us. This is unbelievable. First the elbow BS and now this.

What were you referring to?

However, a BS around the rim and in three...

I was referring to that trip on Abreu, it was a ridiculously obvious foul.

But overall, yes everything is against us, nothing is working.

[zipsfan13]

Why has Zeke been out of the game? It seems like it would have been helpful to have him in during the last few minutes.

[RootforRoo44]

Why has Zeke been out of the game? It seems like it would have been helpful to have him in during the last few minutes.

More importantly, why was McKnight out of the game at the end when we needed a big shot? The guy has been hot from three and is generally pretty clutch. Overall, yeah some bad luck today, but we were outcoached for the second consecutive game.

[zipsfan13]

Why has Zeke been out of the game? It seems like it would have been helpful to have him in during the last few minutes.

More importantly, why was McKnight out of the game at the end when we needed a big shot? The guy has been hot from three and is generally pretty clutch. Overall, yeah some bad luck today, but we were outcoached for the second consecutive game.

+1

[zipsfan13]

I hate to say it, but I've found myself doubting KD a lot lately.

[RowdyZip]

I hate to say it, but I've found myself doubting KD a lot lately.

You guys are ridiculous.

[zipsfan13]

I hate to say it, but I've found myself doubting KD a lot lately.

You guys are ridiculous.

I'm not ridiculous. I'm entitled to my own opinion. There have been many times that I have wondered why he put a certain lineup on the court. I'm definitely not saying he should be fired, though, so don't take it that way.

[GP1]

I know the officials are supposed to be emphazing this but I just don't understand. I'm done with my rant.

This is why it is being called. I saw something on TV about the crackdown of elbows. If I remember right, the elbow can not be above the shoulder or something like that.

[RootforRoo44]

I know the officials are supposed to be emphazing this but I just don't understand. I'm done with my rant.

This is why it is being called. I saw something on TV about the crackdown of elbows. If I remember right, the elbow can not be above the shoulder or something like that.

Well Zeke's was certainly not. His elbows naturally are at the face of everyone else because they are so much shorter than him. He just puts his out to his side, hits someone in the face, and it's an automatic intentional foul...that's ridiculous.

[Dave in Green]

We Zips basketball fans begin every season filled with hope for great things, and slowly watch the hope eroded as the season wears on. At some point in each season we have to reevaluate and come to a realistic assessment of where the team actually stands.

This season the Zips failed to win one of their tough OOC games, and had some close wins over some of the weaker teams. The biggest win so far this season was against Can't. They were without Guyton, and the Zips only beat them by 3 at home. That was good for the win column and satisfying for everyone who dislikes the Flushes. But the margin at home against a team missing one of its best players was not so good.

Then the Zips fall at home to OU and now on the road to an inexperienced Buffalo. Since I didn't get to watch the Buffalo game, I can only look at the box score and see some pretty thin stats from some players who need to play well for the Zips to win.

At this point, I'm officially lowering my expectations for this season's team. They just have not been able to show that they are winners. They started the season as a very average team, and now they are starting to fall below average.

I suppose there's a remote possibility that they'll suddenly awake from whatever funk they're in and run the table in the MAC. But right now I don't even feel confident about their chances against all the MAC West teams, let alone the MAC East. A 20-win season is starting to look like a fantasy. There's a good chance that the Zips may not get a bye for the MAC tournament, and a possibility based on how they're playing now that they might not even make it to the Q.

Who imagined how much the Zips would miss Chris McKnight and Jimmy Conyers? Who would have thought that no one on the roster would step forward and fill the gap?

I don't know how much of it is the coaching and how much is the players. But something is definitely out of sync in Zipsville.

[UAZipster0305]

I know the officials are supposed to be emphazing this but I just don't understand. I'm done with my rant.

This is why it is being called. I saw something on TV about the crackdown of elbows. If I remember right, the elbow can not be above the shoulder or something like that.

Then how does one grab a rebound or shoot or dunk or defend over the head passes or...?

[FromdaBurgh]

And ladies and gents therein lies my issue EVERY single time when it comes to Zeke and if anyone listened to the post game interview you heard KD say that whenever Zeke gets these types of calls it bothers him so much that it throws him off his game. I said it in another thread...Zeke is going to have to learn QUICKLY how to not allow those types of calls to effective the rest of his game. If he does not get a tougher skin when it comes to those types of calls we will consistenly see him get into foul trouble because he has allowed the refs to get into his head! Now, to answer someones question about the new rules...here is what our illustrious NCAA decided:

"Every season in men’s basketball an NCAA rules change occurs. This season, a player who rebounds the ball will need to find some elbow room without swinging them.

The NCAA men’s basketball rules committee approved in June a significant change for policing how a player conducts himself when defenders try to swat the ball from the player’s hands. That player will find it much harder to swing his elbows to clear space between him and the defender. He will now be whistled for a minimum of an intentional foul.

Previously, the official only had the option of calling as little as a common foul or as serious as a flagrant foul, according to the NCAA Men’s Basketball Rules Committee 2010 Annual Meeting Report. How many times have you witnessed no fouls called in that situation?

The difference between a flagrant and intentional foul: If the foul is deemed to be intentional, the team whose player was struck would receive two free throws and possession of the ball. If the foul is deemed to be flagrant, the player who threw the elbow would be ejected.

Under the new rule, officials will no longer have the option of calling a common foul. A player who swings the elbow and makes contact below the shoulders would still be subject to a common foul, an intentional foul or a flagrant foul, depending on the severity and intent.

“The (rules) committee continues to be concerned with elbow contact,” the committee states in its 2010 Annual Meeting Report. “Because of the increased number of these situations, the committee believes that immediate change is needed.

“Effective with the 2010-11 season, more than incidental contact above the shoulders with the elbow must be a minimum of an intentional foul. If the contact with the elbow is deemed to be a result of excessive swinging of the elbows, the penalty will continue to be a flagrant foul regardless of the area contacted. The report further states that “in addition to this rules change, there will be additional officiating emphasis on protecting players that have possession immediately following a rebound by quickly calling reach in or other contact fouls.”Those are dreadful words to those who believe refs are already whistle-happy. They are now given the green light to protect the rebounder, as the NCAA rules committee states. The simple fact that the NCAA rules committee has made this a big deal will entice refs to call more fouls and become a greater part of the game.

Time will tell if these calls will become controversial. Committing an intentional foul after a rebound can become as much as a seven- or eight-point swing. The team of the violating player relinquishes possession (preventing the opportunity of a field goal or three-point shot). The opponent gets two free throws and then possession.

Other rules information for the upcoming season:

•Last year’s rules change that identified the area under the basket as a place on the floor that a secondary defender is not able to establish legal guarding position acted as a deterrent to bogus charging calls. However, the rules committee is currently against painting an arc like the NBA because the rules committee is “concerned that placing an arc on the floor too far from the basket would create a seismic shift in the game that would potentially provide a significant advantage to the offensive team,” the 2010 report states.

•Timeout administration is changed. During a timeout, two horns will now sound. The first horn is a warning indicating 15 seconds remaining in the timeout. The second horn, by rule, denotes the time the ball should be put in play. Officials must place the ball on the floor and start a count if the team throwing the ball in is not ready for play.

Some rules recommendations to the committee this year that we may see enforced in future years:

•Wider Lane. A wider lane is viewed by the committee as a means to improve the spacing of the game in the post. The general consensus of the committee in June was that a wider lane would be a positive move.

•Sportsmanship Concerns. In some higher profile cases, coaches are not treating their own student-athletes respectfully, and the committee is planning to send a memorandum to all directors of athletics requesting assistance in improving these behaviors. The general feeling of the committee is this is an institutional issue rather than an officiating concern.

•Coach calling timeout during a live ball. An official’s attention is and should be on the court during live ball play; therefore, it makes sense to the committee that only players on the court should be allowed to call timeouts during play.

•Use of monitor for shot clock expiration reviews. Currently, a monitor may be used for shot clock reviews only under a minute in each half. The committee is considering expanding this allowance to the entire game.

•Defining amount of time it takes to catch the ball. Several situations were presented to the committee that would benefit from having a set limit in terms of time. The accepted minimum amount of time to catch and shoot a ball by rule is 0.4 seconds; it seems to make sense to use that same number, at a minimum, if a team is catching a rebound and calling timeout.

•Definition of the try during a fouling situation. The committee discussed in June when the shot begins under the continuous motion rule and believes more definition and education is needed."

”

[RootforRoo44]

Fact:

[GP1]

I know the officials are supposed to be emphazing this but I just don't understand. I'm done with my rant.

This is why it is being called. I saw something on TV about the crackdown of elbows. If I remember right, the elbow can not be above the shoulder or something like that.

Then how does one grab a rebound or shoot or dunk or defend over the head passes or...?

I have no idea. It's just what I saw on TV.

[RACER]

the sky is falling the sky is falling.kd has got to go.bring in coleman crawford,or dan hipsher to get things turned around before it's to late.

[Valpo Zip]

the sky is falling the sky is falling.kd has got to go.bring in coleman crawford,or dan hipsher to get things turned around before it's to late.

It's all about your expectations level Racer. If you're happy with anything as long as it is better than what Crawford and Hipsher had, then go ahead and celebrate.

For most of us, when you get destroyed at home by OU and follow that by a loss to a very young buffalo team, that is a good time to sound the alarms.

[Dave in Green]

We all have our own personal feelings about the Zips. I'm generally an optimist when the Zips start a new season, prefering to focus on what the Zips might become if they realize their best. I'm one of those who was even trying to find positive points in Brett McKnight's suspension, hoping that would lead to quicker development of one or more of the freshman forwards.

I generally remain optimistic until a string of events add up to the need for a change in expectations. The Zips are now more than halfway through their 32-game regular season schedule, so this is about the time of the season when I shift from generally optimistic to more realistic based on results to date.

I still like watching the team and I still think the Zips have a good coach, so I'm not talking about deserting them. I see all kinds of potential in both individual players and in the way they might be successful playing as a cohesive team. But the reality is that this Zips team has shown me nothing special when it comes to winning games.

Now, the season isn't over, and it's still possible for the Zips to wake up and start realizing more of their potential. We can even get back to talking about the fact that the only thing that really matters is for the team to peak in the MAC tournament and earn an NCAA bid. For a model of what that would look like, one need only look back at last year's lack of regular season success for OU followed by their strong post season run. I'd be happy to kiss off the Zips current regular season if I thought they could make a post season run like that.

But so far the Zips haven't even given a clue that they are capable of putting together a run like that. So my revised personal expectations for the team are that it's possible but unlikely that the Zips will suddenly transform from sleepwalker to championship caliber sprinter.

For me, having more realistic expectations for what the Zips might do in each conference game will make the losses less painful, and right now I foresee more of those losses than I expected when the season began.

[johnnyzip84]

For as many seasons as I can recall, KD has emphasized that the Zips simply aren’t good enough to win MAC games without playing with heart and executing. And he has been correct all along in this notion. I think because of our recent stretch of MAC championship appearances and the highly publicized recruiting of Zeke, there sprouted some hope among Zip fans that perhaps we might start to separate ourselves from the pack in the MAC East. The reality is this might be the most balanced MAC East in a long time. And a few MAC West squads are looking to be improved as well. We’re in the midst of a season where pretty much EVERY game will require effort and execution to have a chance to win.

Will one or two leaders emerge from the players, so that the necessary focus and intensity are provided each night? I think this is a must for any hopes of a 20 win season and/or tourney run in Cleveland.