Akron September opponent's coach in hot water?

[GP1]

agree (except that a LOT of kids playing college ball are not from poor families and I think that is a stereotype. Some might be)

I think you might be surprised.

[ZachTheZip]

$16,000 is a whole lot when you don't have any bills to pay.

What if your family needs the money to pay for rent and food?

Then you should get a job to support your family instead of being selfish and going to college to play sports.

Comes down to priorities. It's a tough decision, but non-athletes have to make tough decisions and nobody talks about changing massive national systems to help them.

[skip-zip]

$16,000 is a whole lot when you don't have any bills to pay.

What if your family needs the money to pay for rent and food?

Then you should get a job to support your family instead of being selfish and going to college to play sports.

Comes down to priorities. It's a tough decision, but non-athletes have to make tough decisions and nobody talks about changing massive national systems to help them.

Amen.

[Dave in Green]

GP1, I agree. The current system is broken. All systems are broken because they're all flawed. They're all run by people and all people are flawed in one way or another. If we want a better system than we have today, we need to find one with fewer flaws -- a less broken system, so to speak. Correcting one flaw in the current system may create two or three new and worse ones. Have you really thought this all the way out?

It sounds to me as if all of your arguments are based on me, me, me. What's my share? What do I get out of it? I want more and I want it now. Eliminate rules and there won't be any rules breaking.

What's the ultimate result of all that?

Giving more money to cheaters does not necessarily reduce cheating. Human nature being what it is, the more money you get the more you want. Give college football players enough cash and they'll all have high-buck attorneys working on how to weasel more money out of the system. How about college football player strikes and lockouts?

How is all that football income brought in by colleges and the NCAA currently used? Is it primarily used for productive purposes or blown on frivolous excesses? Under your proposed system, would the wealthy players and their wealthier attorneys make more productive use of that money to the benefit of colleges, students and student athletes in general? Or would it just give more to the self-centered prima donnas while damaging everyone and everything else in the system?

These are some of the questions that would have to be answered for me before I'd buy into the concept that the world would be a better place if only modestly paid college athletes were extravagantly paid.

[RACER]

at least the non student can get job,and make some cash.if he is in the band he go play in some band

on weekends,or give lessons.if i am a computer student i can fix computers for people.it's ok for a coach make $$ of indorsments,or leave a team formore pay.why can't the players make money

by signing autographs ect. pryer did the right thing.take the cash, and run.the ncaa can have all the rules they want to have.does not mean kids are going to follow them.chris carter,deon sanders,mike irvin,dez bryant all got cash while playing c-ball.the ncaa is mad becuase they did not get the 40k

out of pryer.

[Dave in Green]

tOSU apparently had many warnings over the years about Pryor:

Sources: Ohio State was warned

[skip-zip]

at least the non student can get job,and make some cash.if he is in the band he go play in some band

on weekends,or give lessons.if i am a computer student i can fix computers for people.it's ok for a coach make $$ of indorsments,or leave a team formore pay.why can't the players make money

by signing autographs ect. pryer did the right thing.take the cash, and run.the ncaa can have all the rules they want to have.does not mean kids are going to follow them.chris carter,deon sanders,mike irvin,dez bryant all got cash while playing c-ball.the ncaa is mad becuase they did not get the 40k

out of pryer.

Yes, non-athletes can get a job, and athletes cannot. But one of them doesn't have to pay for their college.

Which would you choose? Putting yourself in massive debt and working a crappy part time job to pay all of these outrageous bills, or playing a sport and getting all of your school bills paid for you?

Or....How about choosing between all of that recognition and a chance to possibly play professional sports at a high salary, or the chance to make an entry level salary in the working world before those loan payments start coming due?

That's what I thought.

Like I said before. If they don't like the arrangement, then don't accept the scholarship offer. Plenty of people would be greatful to take their place.

[K92]

This thread seems to have morphed into the player compensation topic. My 2 cents on this is very simple: The compensation for playing 1-A football is a full ride scholarship. Period. If the players don't like that deal they can stop playing. There are plenty to take their place.

Don't fall for the player stipend idea as if it would be a good thing. It's just another scheme by which the power schools with deep pockets could solidify their position of dominance. If you pay football players you have to pay everybody. If you didn't, the legal system would stop due to the lawsuits that would be filed. Most schools couldn't afford to pay stipends to the the revenue producing sports, nevermind all. So what you would have is a system where OSU, UM, PSU, Bama, Texas, and a handful of others would have a totally unfair recruiting advantage IN EVERY SPORT. If the big football schools can pay players, they will get the best football, basketball, soccer, lacrosse, hockey, water polo, volleyball, tennis, on and on and on. The schools that could afford to pay don't really care about the student athlete any more than the next school. They want to protect their racket. I suspect all the talk of player compensation is due to their absolute fear and loathing of the prospect of D-1A football playoffs. Pay for play is a contingency plan to keep the field unlevel.

Maybe that was my 3 cents.

[ZachTheZip]

How's about a compromise. Instead of being on scholarship, the university just cuts them a check for the value plus an extra $10k in spending money every semester. They still have to be enrolled full time and maintain their GPA and all that in order to be on the roster.

We'll see if they're better off that way. We'll see if their financial prowess lets them live a better life. I would bet good money that more than half of them would end up spending it all on stupid crap like tattoos and video games and then have to resort to doing the same illegal things the OSU players have been doing just to put food on their table. They would then complain how they aren't getting paid enough to compensate for their poor financial skills.

You could pay college athletes hundreds of thousands of dollars and it still wouldn't be enough for some of them. What's why the NCAA rules are they way they are.

[Dave in Green]

Back on the topic of this thread -- a team the Zips will be playing this season -- CBS Sports has more on the subject of tOSU being warned several times over the years about problems they apparently failed to deal with. The article reaches a damning conclusion:

So you'll begin to notice an alarming trend taking place at Ohio State under Jim Tressel. Tressel would be alerted about potential problems with his players and then do nothing about it. Despite the concerns about Talbott expressed to the school, that didn't stop Ohio State from allowing Talbott to work as a credentialed photographer at home games in 2009.

Obviously, on the surface, Terrelle Pryor playing golf with somebody isn't anything to be alarmed about. But when that person is somebody you've already been warned about in the past when it comes to his relationship with Ohio State players, the fact that Ohio State wouldn't address the issue is mind-boggling.

Report: OSU warned about Talbott in 2007

Meanwhile, good news for the one or two ZN.O forum members who still want to believe that this isn't such a big deal: tOSU President E. Gordon Gee told the institution's largest graduating class that a scandal in its celebrated football program is "but a temporary condition."

Ohio St.'s Gee says football scandal is 'temporary'

[Doug Snyder]

$16,000 is a whole lot when you don't have any bills to pay.

What if your family needs the money to pay for rent and food?

Then you should get a job to support your family instead of being selfish and going to college to play sports.

Comes down to priorities. It's a tough decision, but non-athletes have to make tough decisions and nobody talks about changing massive national systems to help them.

Amen.

Uh...sorry. Obama has been doing just that. Massive changes to national systems to help select groups.

I seldom agree with GP1 but he is mostly correct in this discussion IMO. The current system is so strict that breaking the rules is almost a given. Why do we put known murders back on the street because of technicalities to protect our constitution but want to take constitutional rights from individuals to protect a game?? I don't have all the answers...but many questions. One thing I know is the system must change. The OSU issue was about athletes trading property for services and getting discounts. Read what Clarrett has to say (although I hate using him as an example for anything) about who is responsible and how easy it was for athletes to find people willing to give them things.

One thing I don't agree with GP1...kids should have restrictions on what jobs that can hold. And he is also wrong about the rent...it is my assumption that athletes get room and board as part of their scholarship. I think "room" should make "rent" unnecessary.

[RACER]

you guys are right on the money.there is no way the ncaa can pay football /b-ball players.

the ncaa only signed a tv deal for 10.8 billion dollars for the naa tourney.after the coaches,presidents,

and ncaa people need all that money for themselves.

[Dave in Green]

"I believe the great majority of people within college athletics ... want to see us follow the rules that are in place," he said. "If we don't like a rule, we have the opportunity through legislation to try to shape our future and what it does look like."

Nice to see one AD speaking up for those fans who don't believe in the concept of eliminating rules breaking by simply eliminating rules.

NCAA needs to call special convention to clean up its mess

[bandzip]

at least the non student can get job,and make some cash.if he is in the band he go play in some band

on weekends,or give lessons.if i am a computer student i can fix computers for people.it's ok for a coach make $$ of indorsments,or leave a team formore pay.why can't the players make money

by signing autographs ect. pryer did the right thing.take the cash, and run.the ncaa can have all the rules they want to have.does not mean kids are going to follow them.chris carter,deon sanders,mike irvin,dez bryant all got cash while playing c-ball.the ncaa is mad becuase they did not get the 40k

out of pryer.

Give me a full-ride over a job any day. I've got a band scholarship, a couple academic scholarships AND a job and I'm still taking out student loans.

[g-mann17]

you guys are right on the money.there is no way the ncaa can pay football /b-ball players.

the ncaa only signed a tv deal for 10.8 billion dollars for the naa tourney.after the coaches,presidents,

and ncaa people need all that money for themselves.

That is 10.8 over close to 10 years, and the majority of that money is pumped back into other athletic programs (women's field hockey for example). Yes AD's and Coaches are over paid, but in many instances that money is raised by alumni and donors. I believer their are several programs that now have an endowed coaches position. That means there is a lump of money set aside to pay the best possible salary for the best possible coach.

Also that 10.8 is for basketball and split across some 300 schools.

And if its so horrible to make money of these guys, if its really so bad, why are ESPN, Fox, CBS, NBC making these deals, you know they are making money of the broadcasts, you spend $10.8 billion on something for the heck of it. They are expecting at least a 3:1 return on that investment. I don't see any of those broadcasting companies offering up grants or scholarships to cover the hardship expenses. Give me a break on this whole thing already.

Athletes get a lot, there are rules in place, and for some what they get isn't enough because they want everything "now". All of these violations are really entitlement issues. They think they deserve something more than they get. Even at the almighty OSU, the biggest athletic budget in the land, athletics make up a paultry 3% of the university's 4 Billion dollar + operating budget. The people in the agriculture department end up making more for the school from creating better manure than what any of those athletes generate.

[Dave in Green]

..... The people in the agriculture department end up making more for the school from creating better manure than what any of those athletes generate.

Actually, some of those athletes have shown they're pretty darn good at creating manure.

[g-mann17]

..... The people in the agriculture department end up making more for the school from creating better manure than what any of those athletes generate.

Actually, some of those athletes have shown they're pretty darn good at creating manure.

[Buckzip]

..... The people in the agriculture department end up making more for the school from creating better manure than what any of those athletes generate.

Actually, some of those athletes have shown they're pretty darn good at creating manure.

[RACER]

g-man the osu football teams makes enough money to pay for all the other athletes at O.S.U.

the girl softball players is getting a full ride because of the football team.everbody says if you

don't like don't play by the rules.pryer did not ,and he is 40k richer for it now.plus who knows how much more he can make now on edorsement deals.any kid twenty years old will take 40k.

[Dave in Green]

..... everbody says if you don't like don't play by the rules.pryer did not ,and he is 40k richer for it now.plus who knows how much more he can make now on edorsement deals.any kid twenty years old will take 40k.

Everybody says that? Everybody? Well, alrighty then. I guess if everybody says it's OK to cheat the college football system to make a quick buck that it's also OK to rob a bank or something. Lots of easy money to be made by cheating, lying, stealing, etc. Makes you wonder why anyone bothers to obey any laws. Honest people are suckers, right? Isn't that what everybody says?

[GP1]

I guess if everybody says it's OK to cheat the college football system to make a quick buck that it's also OK to rob a bank or something.

There is a difference between breaking NCAA rules and breaking the law. Laws make actions illegal because OTHERS are harmed by the actions of the criminal. NCAA rules are made in order to enforce an fantasy many have created for themselves about the nature and purpose of college athletics. Who is harmed by Pryor breaking ncaa rules? I would say that almost nobody is harmed by him breaking ncaa rules. Why?....Well, when everyone is already breaking the most moronic rules in the world, nobody can be harmed by the actions.

"But GP1, schools like Akron are hurt by Pryor breaking the rules. It gives them an unfair advantage." This line of thinking is nonsense. We are our own worst enemy and the harm we do to ourselves is far worse than anything tosu or the other bcs schools could do to us.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I guess if everybody says it's OK to cheat the college football system to make a quick buck that it's also OK to rob a bank or something.

Who is harmed by Pryor breaking ncaa rules? I would say that almost nobody is harmed by him breaking ncaa rules. Why?....Well, when everyone is already breaking the most moronic rules in the world, nobody can be harmed by the actions.

It hurts the integrity of the game. Once Pryor is taking gifts and money, he owes someone. If you are a college QB and you owe someone, point shaving becomes a real threat.

[g-mann17]

I guess if everybody says it's OK to cheat the college football system to make a quick buck that it's also OK to rob a bank or something.

There is a difference between breaking NCAA rules and breaking the law. Laws make actions illegal because OTHERS are harmed by the actions of the criminal. NCAA rules are made in order to enforce an fantasy many have created for themselves about the nature and purpose of college athletics. Who is harmed by Pryor breaking ncaa rules? I would say that almost nobody is harmed by him breaking ncaa rules. Why?....Well, when everyone is already breaking the most moronic rules in the world, nobody can be harmed by the actions.

"But GP1, schools like Akron are hurt by Pryor breaking the rules. It gives them an unfair advantage." This line of thinking is nonsense. We are our own worst enemy and the harm we do to ourselves is far worse than anything tosu or the other bcs schools could do to us.

How about the athletes and students at OSU are hurt by his actions? People wanting to attend OSU are hurt because of scholarship reduction, Tressel and that whole coaching staff will be hurt. The NCAA will sanction them, and the NCAA rules are laws for purpose of college athletics.

I mean that whole concept you gave is the weakest argument you have ever given. Who is hurt by murder? The family and the person murdered, so maybe 100 people tops, who was hurt by all the illegal shenanigans that Fair Finance or any of the other ponzi bank schemes? Thousands were, yet the laws say murderer gets the chair, and white collar thief gets 12 months at the country club. Hell laws are moronic, the company you work for has moronic rules. But its ok to break them because every one else does. All of the sports have rules, it doesn't hurt anybody if I cheat the game, hell everyone does anyway. Finally figured out GP1's problem. He's a sociopath.

Lets not forget that Roosevelt said "police yourselves or we will". Everyone hates the NCAA but it is what deregulated college athletics looks like. The alternative would have been the Federal Bureau of College Athletics, and all of this stuff would be real crime. And also understand something. There are maybe 50 violations a year tops most of them are very minor, and the majority of schools and athletes abide by the rules because what is set up is more than fair. But then you get media outlets that pick up on the 3 or 4 marquee violations and make it into a "we need to change a broken system" that's the "fantasy" the fantasy is that football players and mens basketball players are somehow more important. People don't show up to see Pryor, they don't show up to see Sullinger. They show up to see the Buckeyes. None of these players at any of these of schools are anything, and that is why they choose the big schools so that they can attach that tradition and that excellence to their name. But in the grand scheme of things of the 10,000 some footballers across D-1 less than .02% of them will be a pro and they know that going in. And only a fraction of that think they are better than the system or deserve more than what they are getting.

[g-mann17]

I guess if everybody says it's OK to cheat the college football system to make a quick buck that it's also OK to rob a bank or something.

Who is harmed by Pryor breaking ncaa rules? I would say that almost nobody is harmed by him breaking ncaa rules. Why?....Well, when everyone is already breaking the most moronic rules in the world, nobody can be harmed by the actions.

It hurts the integrity of the game. Once Pryor is taking gifts and money, he owes someone. If you are a college QB and you owe someone, point shaving becomes a real threat.

And that is a crime an not a "rule". So great point Cap.

[g-mann17]

g-man the osu football teams makes enough money to pay for all the other athletes at O.S.U.

the girl softball players is getting a full ride because of the football team.everbody says if you

don't like don't play by the rules.pryer did not ,and he is 40k richer for it now.plus who knows how much more he can make now on edorsement deals.any kid twenty years old will take 40k.

If you taint yourself like Pryor did you don't get endorsement deals. Bush had all sorts of stuff out of college and as soon as all the allegations were confirmed that went away. Not to mention Pryor is an "easy way" athlete, that's proven by these actions. NFL teams are going to be aware of that and he is going to have a very short leash. If amounts to more than Clarett did in the NFL I will be greatly surprised. So what does he get out of it? Forty grand and not much else.