Fifth Day of Preseaon Men's Basketball Practice

[Dr Z]

As I said earlier, the one thing I am absolutely certain of is that they are going to be more entertaining and fun to watch.

The increased interest from fans who haven't attended many Zips basketball games in the past is well-founded.

I'll take that. What a refreshing change that would be for the fans.....and another MAC title....and an upset win over a Top-25 team. That has to happen sometime, doesn't it?

Me too. That's what gets me to more games, getting the ball quickly down the floor and into an offense, fast breaks, scoring points. THAT's what I want to see. I've walked out of the JAR when the Zips have won 59-58 and I felt like I lost. If I'm going to watch our PG turn around at half court and dribble the ball backwards to the three point line every trip down the floor, I would rather sort my socks at home and listen on the radio.

[skip-zip]

As I said earlier, the one thing I am absolutely certain of is that they are going to be more entertaining and fun to watch.

The increased interest from fans who haven't attended many Zips basketball games in the past is well-founded.

I'll take that. What a refreshing change that would be for the fans.....and another MAC title....and an upset win over a Top-25 team. That has to happen sometime, doesn't it?

Me too. That's what gets me to more games, getting the ball quickly down the floor and into an offense, fast breaks, scoring points. THAT's what I want to see. I've walked out of the JAR when the Zips have won 59-58 and I felt like I lost. If I'm going to watch our PG turn around at half court and dribble the ball backwards to the three point line every trip down the floor, I would rather sort my socks at home and listen on the radio.

I know that feeling. As much as I thoroughly enjoyed our victory in the OT MAC title game this past year, it was also very excruciating. I don't prefer a game that lasts 45 minutes to end with a score in the 60s. That game just about killed me.

[Derrt]

The talk of Diggs as a sixth man still baffles me? GoZips, please explain your reasoning other than the "spark off the bench" point. I know the coaches are hoping to convince him to take that role also.

And I saw that you said he could play the (1, 2 or 3))

[Z.I.P.]

Consider this: If you knew what is going on you would be pulling your hair out trying to decide

whether or not to red shirt either or both the Freshmen.

Consider this: It's all gone!!! Bahhhhhhhh!

[Captain Kangaroo]

Remember how one would cringe when Q launched a three ball? Well, his stroke and accuracy have greatly improved.

For the record -- I never cringed when the guy that lead the 2010-11 Zips in 3-point shooting percentage (39%) launched a 3. I was actually sort of happy.

[skip-zip]

Remember how one would cringe when Q launched a three ball? Well, his stroke and accuracy have greatly improved.

For the record -- I never cringed when the guy that lead the Zips in 3-point shooting percentage (39%) launched a 3. I was actually sort of happy.

Good point.

I'm also getitng a little bit weary of hearing how great these guys are doing in PRACTICE. I can't begin to illustrate the difference. For starters, little pressure to make decisions, pressure to win, and fear of making mistakes. Not to mention an all out effort by a defense to nearly take your head off if you try to score.

I know... I'll get a response from a certain someone that emphatically says something like, "No...you're wrong...KD is great at simulating game situations blah blah blah". But sorry, it's just not remotely the same conditions.

We have a number of guys who have not been in game situations in quite some time, or didn't even have tons of playing experience in high school. That only adds to the uncertainty of how they might perform.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I like the input of ZN.o members regrading practice. It is fun to actually watch the guys you've read so much about actually do something on the field/court.

I used to love attending the Zips football summer practices to get a preview of the upcoming team. You could tell right away that young guys like David Harvey and Matt Cherry were going to be special talents. Scouting, and projecting the results of young talent is one of my favorite things to do.

I'll digress and tell a quick story --

I coach Kiwanis youth basketball. I had a teeny tiny kid on my team (Jared) last season who hadn't played basketball very much. He was pretty overwhelmed for most of the season, but if he were unguarded, he actually had a pretty fundamentally sound stroke. This usually occurred during practices.

Fast-forward to our Round 2 playoff game - the opposing team presses us the back court, which is a 2-shot technical. I placed Jared at the free throw line. I hear from a parent behind me: "HEY COACH, GET THAT KID OFF THE LINE!!" That dad was the father of the best kid on my team. He had some justification to have his son shoot the free throws.

Jared stroked both free throws for 2 of the 6 points he scored the entire season. We went on a big run and won the game.

Moral of the story - If that dad was at my practices, he'd have kept his yap shut when I placed Jared at the line. The kid was the #8 kid on a 9-kid roster. But he was our best free throw shooter. He showed it every day in practice.

[skip-zip]

I'll agree that it's fun to have hopes and dreams, and begin to analyze the upcoming season. But, I feel compelled to interject a voice of extreme caution when I see a few people proclaiming our rise into the national spotlight based on what they see in a summer practice.

[Dr Z]

....I see a few people proclaiming our rise into the national spotlight based on what they see in a summer practice.

Up to 10 people think we are going to win at least one game in the NCAA tournament this year...so far.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I'll agree that it's fun to have hopes and dreams, and begin to analyze the upcoming season. But, I feel compelled to interject a voice of extreme caution when I see a few people proclaiming our rise into the national spotlight based on what they see in a summer practice.

Hey, we're due, right?

[Doug Snyder]

I'll agree that it's fun to have hopes and dreams, and begin to analyze the upcoming season. But, I feel compelled to interject a voice of extreme caution when I see a few people proclaiming our rise into the national spotlight based on what they see in a summer practice.

I agree...caution and a dose of reality is needed. And you have done that. But your constant posting on the issue comes across more of advocating a point of view. Better to advise caution a few times and if people fail to pick up your recommendation you can always say "I told you so" But the constant advocating against the opposing view makes you come across as unwilling to compromise, see other people views and worst of all....allow others to have a point of view different than your own.

I understand that is the norm now in US culture and is often the pervasive view here. I say “relax” and enjoy the enthusiasm. There was none last few years in BBall …or any sport other than soccer. I hope it translates to better support of the teams.

[Derrt]

[Dave in Green]

Does anyone posting on this forum really need a remedial lesson that practice is different from actual game play?

DUH!

The only reason that people continue to post about how good the players look in practice is because, up until today, they've only been practicing. There was nothing else to talk about. In any case, why would any good Zips fan not want to hear that the Zips look good in practice? The alternative would be that they don't look good.

Today the Zips blew out a mediocre small Canadian college. Once again, there will be positive and negative things to talk about regarding individual and team play, with the understanding that this exhibition game was only a step above practice. While it doesn't directly translate to regular season game play any more than practice does, it does provide more clues about the abilities of the players.

So, please, please, pretty please, let's not waste bandwidth on remedial lectures about how much different a major regular season college game is from a minor exhibition game or practice.

No one is arguing the point, so no case needs to be made.

[Z.I.P.]

I like the input of ZN.o members regrading practice. It is fun to actually watch the guys you've read so much about actually do something on the field/court.

I used to love attending the Zips football summer practices to get a preview of the upcoming team. You could tell right away that young guys like David Harvey and Matt Cherry were going to be special talents. Scouting, and projecting the results of young talent is one of my favorite things to do.

I'll digress and tell a quick story --

I coach Kiwanis youth basketball. I had a teeny tiny kid on my team (Jared) last season who hadn't played basketball very much. He was pretty overwhelmed for most of the season, but if he were unguarded, he actually had a pretty fundamentally sound stroke. This usually occurred during practices.

Fast-forward to our Round 2 playoff game - the opposing team presses us the back court, which is a 2-shot technical. I placed Jared at the free throw line. I hear from a parent behind me: "HEY COACH, GET THAT KID OFF THE LINE!!" That dad was the father of the best kid on my team. He had some justification to have his son shoot the free throws.

Jared stroked both free throws for 2 of the 6 points he scored the entire season. We went on a big run and won the game.

Moral of the story - If that dad was at my practices, he'd have kept his yap shut when I placed Jared at the line. The kid was the #8 kid on a 9-kid roster. But he was our best free throw shooter. He showed it every day in practice.

JA-RED! JA-RED! JA-RED!

[GoZips]

Remember how one would cringe when Q launched a three ball? Well, his stroke and accuracy have greatly improved.

For the record -- I never cringed when the guy that lead the 2010-11 Zips in 3-point shooting percentage (39%) launched a 3. I was actually sort of happy.

Could you please produce the statistical record that states that Diggs lead the Zips in three point

percentage?

I have in my possession the 2011 Post Season Media Guide. In it I find that player who averaged

39.2% was Brett McClanahan. In second place was Brett McKnight at 38.7%.

Quincy Diggs shot a respectable 37.5% on 15 of 40 attempts. I stand by what I stated before.

Diggs had a terrible shot which over the off season he has greatly improved.

Diggs never had a "green" light to fire up threes. He averaged a trey shot about once every

fourteen minutes of play. Alex Abreu with similar minutes on the floor shot 37.4% and took

a three ball shot about every 7.7 minutes on the floor. Alex had the green light.

Perhaps Quincy's three ball percentages would have improved if he shot more often. I think

that this coming season Q will have more threes and more shots per minutes played because

he improved his shot over the off season. We tend to expect players to improve as they

progress through their years playing college ball. Diggs should live up to that expectation.

[Derrt]

Remember how one would cringe when Q launched a three ball? Well, his stroke and accuracy have greatly improved.

For the record -- I never cringed when the guy that lead the 2010-11 Zips in 3-point shooting percentage (39%) launched a 3. I was actually sort of happy.

Could you please produce the statistical record that states that Diggs lead the Zips in three point

percentage?

I have in my possession the 2011 Post Season Media Guide. In it I find that player who averaged

39.2% was Brett McClanahan. In second place was Brett McKnight at 38.7%.

Quincy Diggs shot a respectable 37.5% on 15 of 40 attempts. I stand by what I stated before.

Diggs had a terrible shot which over the off season he has greatly improved.

Diggs never had a "green" light to fire up threes. He averaged a trey shot about once every

fourteen minutes of play. Alex Abreu with similar minutes on the floor shot 37.4% and took

a three ball shot about every 7.7 minutes on the floor. Alex had the green light.

Perhaps Quincy's three ball percentages would have improved if he shot more often. I think

that this coming season Q will have more threes and more shots per minutes played because

he improved his shot over the off season. We tend to expect players to improve as they

progress through their years playing college ball. Diggs should live up to that expectation.

DIGGS, Quincy 16 41 .390

MCCLANAHAN, Brett 81 208 .389

MCKNIGHT, Brett 30 78 .385

ROBERTS, Darryl 50 131 .382

ABREU, Alex 35 92 .380

MCNEES, Steve 67 211 .318

EUTON, Dakotah 4 13 .308

PETERSEN, Kyle 0 4 .000

EGNER, Josh 0 2 .000

OLDHAM, C.J. 0 1 .000

MARSHALL, Zeke 0 1 .000

CVETINOVIC, Nikola 0 3 .000

[Derrt]

Hopefully this year the Diggs dude will stop second guessing himself like he did last year. Seems like he thinks Pass first, then dribble, later shoot. He needs to just catch and shoot. Hopefully he worked on that this summer.

The only problem I had with MCCLANAHAN was his defensive, other than that he is fine in my book.

I really like ABREU's game, besides the turnovers, he should be good money this year.

Zeke just needs to get stronger, and work on that outside shot. Some of you may doubt his post skills, but I know he has them. I mean he has probably been a post all his life, what other moves would he know?

The Serb is cool too, just stop trying to be the PG on fast breaks.

The rest I shall review later if you care.

5000 G

[skip-zip]

I'll agree that it's fun to have hopes and dreams, and begin to analyze the upcoming season. But, I feel compelled to interject a voice of extreme caution when I see a few people proclaiming our rise into the national spotlight based on what they see in a summer practice.

I agree...caution and a dose of reality is needed. And you have done that. But your constant posting on the issue comes across more of advocating a point of view. Better to advise caution a few times and if people fail to pick up your recommendation you can always say "I told you so" But the constant advocating against the opposing view makes you come across as unwilling to compromise, see other people views and worst of all....allow others to have a point of view different than your own.

I understand that is the norm now in US culture and is often the pervasive view here. I say “relax” and enjoy the enthusiasm. There was none last few years in BBall …or any sport other than soccer. I hope it translates to better support of the teams.

Doug,

I recall responding to one of your posts previously in regards to my "tone" or lack of respect. And I'll give you a similar response....

If you think my comments on here are bad, you haven't spent much time reading posts on this board.

[Dr Z]

Could you please produce the statistical record that states that Diggs lead the Zips in three point

percentage? I have in my possession the 2011 Post Season Media Guide. In it I find that player who averaged

39.2% was Brett McClanahan. In second place was Brett McKnight at 38.7%.

Quincy Diggs .390 (ESPN)

Brett McClanahan .389 (ESPN)

Brett McKnight .385 (ESPN)

Same stats here (CBS Sports)

...and here (Rivals)

[GoZips]

Could you please produce the statistical record that states that Diggs lead the Zips in three point

percentage? I have in my possession the 2011 Post Season Media Guide. In it I find that player who averaged

39.2% was Brett McClanahan. In second place was Brett McKnight at 38.7%.

Quincy Diggs .390 (ESPN)

Brett McClanahan .389 (ESPN)

Brett McKnight .385 (ESPN)

Same stats here (CBS Sports)

...and here (Rivals)

The 2011 Post Season Media Guide does NOT include the Notre Dame game.

Quincy took and made one three point shot against the Irish. That elevated his percentage.

McClanahan took a couple of shots against the Irish and his percentage went down.

Brett fired up over two hundred three balls over the course of the season. Diggs shot forty-one

three balls. Huge difference. Diggs by virtue of rarely shooting long shots gains a minor

statistical advantage. He is NOT the best outside shooter on the Zips. I will concede that

percentage wise with a small sample he "appears" to be ... blah, blah, blah.

Truth is; Diggs had a terrible stroke and any one who follows the game would and should

cringe when he took those long shots. My original intent was to give Quincy credit for his

work over the off season for improving his game. Some of you find busting my ass more

to your liking than recognizing this kid for his hard work.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Truth is; Diggs had a terrible stroke and any one who follows the game would and should

cringe when he took those long shots. My original intent was to give Quincy credit for his

work over the off season for improving his game. Some of you find busting my ass more

to your liking than recognizing this kid for his hard work.

If CJ Oldham went 1-1 from 3-point land, and I extolled the virtues of CJ's 3-point prowess, I think you'd have a point that I was "massaging statistics."

But 41 shots is, statistically, a HUGE, relevant sampling. I'll bet he shoots within +/- 2% of that number this season.

I personally thought, and the statistics bear it out, that Diggs had a sweet stroke last season. So it's less impressive to me that he's hitting 3's in August practice. Nothing against his hard off-season work. You could see from his progress over the course of last season that he was a hard worker.

All hail Quincy - 2010-11 Zips 3-point Percentage Shooting Champion! Now back it up in 2011-12, baby!

[skip-zip]

Could you please produce the statistical record that states that Diggs lead the Zips in three point

percentage? I have in my possession the 2011 Post Season Media Guide. In it I find that player who averaged

39.2% was Brett McClanahan. In second place was Brett McKnight at 38.7%.

Quincy Diggs .390 (ESPN)

Brett McClanahan .389 (ESPN)

Brett McKnight .385 (ESPN)

Same stats here (CBS Sports)

...and here (Rivals)

The 2011 Post Season Media Guide does NOT include the Notre Dame game.

Quincy took and made one three point shot against the Irish. That elevated his percentage.

McClanahan took a couple of shots against the Irish and his percentage went down.

Brett fired up over two hundred three balls over the course of the season. Diggs shot forty-one

three balls. Huge difference. Diggs by virtue of rarely shooting long shots gains a minor

statistical advantage. He is NOT the best outside shooter on the Zips. I will concede that

percentage wise with a small sample he "appears" to be ... blah, blah, blah.

Truth is; Diggs had a terrible stroke and any one who follows the game would and should

cringe when he took those long shots. My original intent was to give Quincy credit for his

work over the off season for improving his game. Some of you find busting my ass more

to your liking than recognizing this kid for his hard work.

As someone who has often criticized posts on here as being overboard personal attacks, I don't think anyone is maliciously going after you in any way.

When someone starts posts predicting a sudden rise to national stature for our program, and an expert knowledge of the Zips, I'd expect people to challenge what they are saying.

And I'll actually repeat what a couple of other people have said.....We all appreciate that you are sharing information from these practices.

[Zipmeister]

Could you please produce the statistical record that states that Diggs lead the Zips in three point

percentage? I have in my possession the 2011 Post Season Media Guide. In it I find that player who averaged

39.2% was Brett McClanahan. In second place was Brett McKnight at 38.7%.

Quincy Diggs .390 (ESPN)

Brett McClanahan .389 (ESPN)

Brett McKnight .385 (ESPN)

Same stats here (CBS Sports)

...and here (Rivals)

The 2011 Post Season Media Guide does NOT include the Notre Dame game.

Quincy took and made one three point shot against the Irish. That elevated his percentage.

McClanahan took a couple of shots against the Irish and his percentage went down.

Brett fired up over two hundred three balls over the course of the season. Diggs shot forty-one

three balls. Huge difference. Diggs by virtue of rarely shooting long shots gains a minor

statistical advantage. He is NOT the best outside shooter on the Zips. I will concede that

percentage wise with a small sample he "appears" to be ... blah, blah, blah.

Truth is; Diggs had a terrible stroke and any one who follows the game would and should

cringe when he took those long shots. My original intent was to give Quincy credit for his

work over the off season for improving his game. Some of you find busting my ass more

to your liking than recognizing this kid for his hard work.

Actually, even though Diggs has a slight statistical advantage it is unlikely that it is a statically significant advantage over either Mc. Fortunately, while his 42 attempts is not a huge number it is large enough to provide a sample that is asymptotically normal and you can easily conduct a significance test for yourself.

[Dave in Green]

I've always been a firm believer in results over form. Unorthodox shooters who hit a good percentage of their shots are just fine with me.

[MDZip]

SAT question. If the Zips do well it will likely be because of all the new talent that has very recently been recruited. Could it be that Anthony Ampaipatakwong is to Akron soccer as Zeke Marshall is to Akron basketball? Once a few (or even one) high caliber players join your team, other players seem to want to join in. Not predicting a national chmapionship or anything (that obviously has to wait until next year when Zeke is a senior ) but just an observation to keep in mind if this and next year go very well. Tough year to predict but I still see the Zips as no lower than a MAC 3 seed. What happens from there is too tough to call because the MAC tournament never seems to go quite to form.