Which type should be concentrated on more heavily?

[GJGood]

There are a couple of recruiting questions I hear discussed from time to time and I'd like to see how my fellow Zips fans feel about it.

How important is the size of a high school program when looking at potential Zips recruits? Would you rather see more focus on getting good talent from huge high school programs that send their very best palyers to BCS schools regularly or do we need more focus on getting the very best players from those schools that a lot of FBS, and especially BCS, programs tend to overlook or pass by?

Also, how important do you feel the success of a high school program is in choosing whom Akron should recruit? Do you think its possible that there is some great high school football individual talent out there on mediocre or even below average high school football teams? Should a school like Akron take a closer look at some individuals at those types of schools?

Obviously the final answer is that you probably want to find the right mix of all the above types but is there one of the types you'd like to see Akron pay more attention to than they have recently?

Just interested to hear your thoughts.

[ZachTheZip]

If you want o know my opinion, just read the story about Brian Wagner and how he ended up at Akron.

The difficulty with recruiting players from "name" programs with BCS recruits is that the players we end up with probably ended up looking better than they were because of their teammates. It's easy to look like a great WR when you have a high school all-american running back to take the defensive pressure off of you.

[GJGood]

If you want o know my opinion, just read the story about Brian Wagner and how he ended up at Akron.

The difficulty with recruiting players from "name" programs with BCS recruits is that the players we end up with probably ended up looking better than they were because of their teammates. It's easy to look like a great WR when you have a high school all-american running back to take the defensive pressure off of you.

I was actually thinking about Wagner and how he was not offered by any other FBS when I was posing the question. I know I live in a school district that every year fields a 6 to 8 win football team but never has anyone go higher than D-III for college ball. In fact two years ago the Ohio high school Division III player of the year played here and ended up going on to Lake Erie College I believe. I just wonder if he'd been more highly recruited if he was at more of a 'name' school.

I understand what you are saying about the problem with recruiting from "name" schools but couldn't the opposite also be true? Couldn't the good player make his teammates look "great" and BCS-worthy? And if that was the case wouldn't it be good for a school like Akron?

[zippy5]

A good player will get noticed, it doesn't matter where he comes from. This isn't 1980. The only reason I would care what schools we recruit from would be to create a pipeline of sorts.

[Buckzip]

A good player will get noticed, it doesn't matter where he comes from. This isn't 1980. The only reason I would care what schools we recruit from would be to create a pipeline of sorts.

There are a ton of good players at small schools. If you are a good player, you get noticed.

Sure the comp may be less, but that is why these scouts are paid more than we are to evaluate talent.

Most high school recruiting isn't based on how you look in high school alone, it's based on your potential.

That is why you will see a lot of guys recruited and switch positions as soon as they step foot on campus.

The coached see the skill set and talent and then predict where he will be the best.

Many high school Rb's becomes lb's or safetys. QB's become WR. OL and DL are reversed quite often when they get on campus. There are a lot of guys that are AA o-lineman and they are being recruited as a DL.

[GJGood]

A good player will get noticed, it doesn't matter where he comes from. This isn't 1980. The only reason I would care what schools we recruit from would be to create a pipeline of sorts.

That was what I thought was pretty much the case too but then again we were the only Division 1 school to offer a scholarship to Brian Wagner, he almost got missed. How many of those are out there at smaller schools like Springfield Catholic Central? How many don't get the recognition they deserve because their own high school coaches are misevaluating for that matter?

[zippy5]

A good player will get noticed, it doesn't matter where he comes from. This isn't 1980. The only reason I would care what schools we recruit from would be to create a pipeline of sorts.

That was what I thought was pretty much the case too but then again we were the only Division 1 school to offer a scholarship to Brian Wagner, he almost got missed. How many of those are out there at smaller schools like Springfield Catholic Central? How many don't get the recognition they deserve because their own high school coaches are misevaluating for that matter?

I don't think his one offer has anything to do with what high school he went to.

[cornbread]

A good player will get noticed, it doesn't matter where he comes from. This isn't 1980. The only reason I would care what schools we recruit from would be to create a pipeline of sorts.

That was what I thought was pretty much the case too but then again we were the only Division 1 school to offer a scholarship to Brian Wagner, he almost got missed. How many of those are out there at smaller schools like Springfield Catholic Central? How many don't get the recognition they deserve because their own high school coaches are misevaluating for that matter?

I don't think his one offer has anything to do with what high school he went to.

From what I know, he was on a few short lists. Schools would say, if X and Y happens, then we may offer you a scholarship. Summer camps give small schools guys a chance to stack up against the big boys.

But I think too many coaches have been burnt on small school prospects that flame out. They have better success with kids who have been through the grinder at practice for 4 years, earned a spot among their peers, and played at the highest levels in high school football.

Good div VI players start all four years, and are used to evading tackles by 165lb DTs.

[Captain Kangaroo]

From what I know, he was on a few short lists. Schools would say, if X and Y happens, then we may offer you a scholarship. Summer camps give small schools guys a chance to stack up against the big boys.But I think too many coaches have been burnt on small school prospects that flame out. They have better success with kids who have been through the grinder at practice for 4 years, earned a spot among their peers, and played at the highest levels in high school football.Good div VI players start all four years, and are used to evading tackles by 165lb DTs.

Jared Province and Nate Schuler are examples of recent small-school (D5) "studs" that didn't last 2 seasons with the Zips.D'Orazio looks like a keeper.Coming from a D-6 HS that has been a elite program since the dawn of high school football (at that level), I can say you get a D-1A player through your doors maybe once per decade. In my senior year, our QB got a scholarship to OU. The McDonald QB from last season took a track scholarship to K.e.n.t. State. In between...a 26-year span...I don't think there was another D1-A player. Several played for YSU, and D-III schools like Mount Union, but no D-1A.

[GP1]

I know this is a generalization, but I'm going to generalize anyhow. A big school kid has to compete against a ton of people to get to be a starter on the team. Since there more kids in the school, he has to beat out more people to start. They play against similar kids from their leagues. It creates a more competitive kid. At a lot of small schools, there are barely enough good players to put on the field and you play against the same type of competition. The kids play just as hard, but the environment they are used to is different. The kids aren't hardened.If given the choice between a small school and a bid school kid, I'd take the big school kid every time if all is equal talentwise.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I know this is a generalization, but I'm going to generalize anyhow. A big school kid has to compete against a ton of people to get to be a starter on the team. Since there more kids in the school, he has to beat out more people to start. They play against similar kids from their leagues. It creates a more competitive kid. At a lot of small schools, there are barely enough good players to put on the field and you play against the same type of competition. The kids play just as hard, but the environment they are used to is different. The kids aren't hardened.If given the choice between a small school and a bid school kid, I'd take the big school kid every time if all is equal talentwise.

I reluctantly agree. Another phenomena that affects the small school kid now-a-days is open enrollment and transferring. 25 years ago, the best small-school kids played for their local school. Now many of the better small-town kids go to the nearest Catholic football machine to get exposure.I think the only caveat to small school kids being generalized as not-as-D1-ready as their bigger-school counterparts involves the Catholic Machine programs like Cardinal Mooney or Youngstown Ursuline. They are D-4 and D-5 by enrollment, but play at the high D-1 level.

[Buckzip]

I know this is a generalization, but I'm going to generalize anyhow. A big school kid has to compete against a ton of people to get to be a starter on the team. Since there more kids in the school, he has to beat out more people to start. They play against similar kids from their leagues. It creates a more competitive kid. At a lot of small schools, there are barely enough good players to put on the field and you play against the same type of competition. The kids play just as hard, but the environment they are used to is different. The kids aren't hardened.If given the choice between a small school and a bid school kid, I'd take the big school kid every time if all is equal talentwise.

If all else is equal you are right. However, it is rare that all else is equal in this type of situation.

[Dave in Green]

It's not like basketball, where the best players from small schools go head-to-head with the best players from big schools in AAU competition.Football players from smaller schools simply do not face the level of competition that players from the big schools do.I think each college football recruiter has to decide exactly what proportion of attention to give to small schools vs. big schools, with big schools getting the most attention from D1A programs. The top universities really don't have to worry about the smaller high schools, as they have their pick of the cream of the crop from larger high schools.UA, like other weaker college football programs, has to focus on marginal players who don't quite make the cut for the top college football programs. Most of them may still come from the larger high schools. But a few gems can be found hidden at the smaller high schools who are worth the gamble for a school like UA even if not for an Alabama or tOSU.

[Buckzip]

The other thing to consider is that there are players that want to play a certain position but would be so much better playing another. There are a lot of recruits out there that are offered by a bigger school at one position but they want to play a different position and a smaller school will allow that. I saw Devoe Torrence play a couple times and I truly thought he was an elite linebacker but merely a pretty good rb. He received bigger offers as a lb but wanted to be a rb.Ben Rothlischeeseburger was offered by some bigger schools as a TE but he wanted to be a QB. Obviously he was more correct on that call. I can mention another school, but I won't, that has offered many guys at a certain postition, but they went elsewhere where they were promised they would play the position they wanted. On many occasions when they got there they were switched back to where they didn't want to play.Look at Rossi here. He was a highly rated LB. I wonder if other schools offered him as a LB, but not a RB. Akron said he could play RB and he came here. I don't know if this is the case with him, but this happens often.

[Doug Snyder]

I think the real question for UA is: is it better to recruit middle level talent at big schools or percieved higher level talent from smaller schools. It is my opinion....that we should always take a chance on a few guys each year from smaller schools. It will help us build a profile of the type smaller school guys that are successful and will help us sell other smaller school guys we may target in the future.