Doug Snyder Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index...pend_on_st.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Z Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Best part of that article. Awesome. Bowling Green hired a firm to produce a video, with some humor, to thank the donors for the school's new Stroh Center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Snyder Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Can you imagine the cost increases that would occur if schools were required to pay athletes?? Many schools would choose not to play and student/athletes in general would suffer so a few true athletes could benefit. Those who would benefit from pay would probably NOT be STUDENT athletes. The student athletes should be happy the get a tax free benefit (education). It could be argued that the UofA students received 17M of unreported, untaxed benefits. For me...I am not sure college athletics justify the cost. I am undecided at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbozeglav Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 What i always seem to dislike about these discussions is what athletics provide as part of the complete package of student life. If your university is all classroom and books, few students will be interested because it sounds BORING. Universities are a business and if the consumer isn't interested in your product because its bland, they won't buy it. Its the university's job to provide the best possible student life atmosphere to entice students to register here and pay to get their higher education. thats just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZipster0305 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 What i always seem to dislike about these discussions is what athletics provide as part of the complete package of student life. If your university is all classroom and books, few students will be interested because it sounds BORING. Universities are a business and if the consumer isn't interested in your product because its bland, they won't buy it. Its the university's job to provide the best possible student life atmosphere to entice students to register here and pay to get their higher education. thats just me. Right, universities are about learning and creating new knowledge (research). But I think you are missing the point. OSU is the only institution in Ohio that earns a profit on its athletics budget. If all the non-profitable athletics departments were eliminated, the student life component that you mentioned in comparing any school to another (with the exception of OSU) is not an issue. In the end, it's a wash and the students would end up benefiting by not having to subsidize athletic departments anywhere. And if all the non-profitable athletics departments were eliminated nationally, OSU would play Texas, UF, etc. quite frequently and that might actually get boring. In the end, OSU needs the other non-profitable schools so that they can buy 4 OOC home games per year. And this is not me OSU bashing...I've attempted to remain objective in making these points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbozeglav Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 trimmy, im not really sure where you were going with that, so pardon me if I am misinterpreting what you've said. i fail to see how the elimination of athletics would result in a wash for higher student life quality and better student involvement in campus activities. To me, as a current student, if the football, basketball, and soccer teams were to all disappear, my life as a student would become even more boring than it already is. Those few hours I spend with my friends at those events are what make the countless hours I spend in the classroom worth it. I get to be loud, support my team and university, and let out my frustration on the other team. There is yet another aspect to this you must consider... What about the grad students who are sports medicine, management, etc? The athletics department is really their "internship" and gets their foot into the door to a career in some facet of athletics. Given how much of an integral part of society sports has become and the number of personnel needed to completely operate any level of professional sports, shutting down all athletics at our universities save for the ones that actually turn a profit deprives those students of an opportunity to gain further experience in knowledge in the field they chose as their career. Is that fair to them? Absolutely not! As an aside about your last comment, the only reason OSU buys wins in september is because the NCAA lets them and they exploit it to the max. Do you honestly think beating up the little kids on the block is what they REALLY want? Ask any coach... if you want to be the best, you have to play the best. Coach Porter should be a good example of the application of that notion, and look where that's gotten us! I wouldnt have chosen akron as my place of learning had i known that there werent ANY athletics.... and thats a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Snyder Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I would like to see the budgets and shortfalls at schools like Mount Union, Case, Dayton, Xavier and others before I made a decision. I agree that there needs to be sports to enhance the school experience...but at what coast and at what level. I know Dr. Z would not continue to support a D2 program at the level he currently supports this program and I agree...it would be kind of the same for me. I would not support a D2 loser...but I would be an avid supporter of a winner at any level. Without doing any research, I don't think there are many perennial loser programs in D2. It seems to me that you can build a winner a little easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZipster0305 Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 trimmy, im not really sure where you were going with that, so pardon me if I am misinterpreting what you've said. i fail to see how the elimination of athletics would result in a wash for higher student life quality and better student involvement in campus activities. To me, as a current student, if the football, basketball, and soccer teams were to all disappear, my life as a student would become even more boring than it already is. Those few hours I spend with my friends at those events are what make the countless hours I spend in the classroom worth it. I get to be loud, support my team and university, and let out my frustration on the other team. There is yet another aspect to this you must consider... What about the grad students who are sports medicine, management, etc? The athletics department is really their "internship" and gets their foot into the door to a career in some facet of athletics. Given how much of an integral part of society sports has become and the number of personnel needed to completely operate any level of professional sports, shutting down all athletics at our universities save for the ones that actually turn a profit deprives those students of an opportunity to gain further experience in knowledge in the field they chose as their career. Is that fair to them? Absolutely not! As an aside about your last comment, the only reason OSU buys wins in september is because the NCAA lets them and they exploit it to the max. Do you honestly think beating up the little kids on the block is what they REALLY want? Ask any coach... if you want to be the best, you have to play the best. Coach Porter should be a good example of the application of that notion, and look where that's gotten us! I wouldnt have chosen akron as my place of learning had i known that there werent ANY athletics.... and thats a fact. Unless comparing a non-profitable school that eliminates its athletics department to OSU, the RELATIVE student life quality is a wash. I could have been more clear about that. Thanks for calling me out on it. And also to clarify, I'm not making an argument for or against the elimination of non-profitable athletics departments. I was just describing an underlying theme of the above linked article. You make a good point about sports medicine and management internships. I assume universities would rely much more heavily on high schools for such opportunities. OSU buys wins in September because they essentially have to be undefeated to play in the National Championship game. Hence, OSU would never play 4 OOC games against teams of UT's or UF's magnitude. OSU rarely plays one such OOC game every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Snyder Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 trimmy, im not really sure where you were going with that, so pardon me if I am misinterpreting what you've said. i fail to see how the elimination of athletics would result in a wash for higher student life quality and better student involvement in campus activities. To me, as a current student, if the football, basketball, and soccer teams were to all disappear, my life as a student would become even more boring than it already is. Those few hours I spend with my friends at those events are what make the countless hours I spend in the classroom worth it. I get to be loud, support my team and university, and let out my frustration on the other team. There is yet another aspect to this you must consider... What about the grad students who are sports medicine, management, etc? The athletics department is really their "internship" and gets their foot into the door to a career in some facet of athletics. Given how much of an integral part of society sports has become and the number of personnel needed to completely operate any level of professional sports, shutting down all athletics at our universities save for the ones that actually turn a profit deprives those students of an opportunity to gain further experience in knowledge in the field they chose as their career. Is that fair to them? Absolutely not! As an aside about your last comment, the only reason OSU buys wins in september is because the NCAA lets them and they exploit it to the max. Do you honestly think beating up the little kids on the block is what they REALLY want? Ask any coach... if you want to be the best, you have to play the best. Coach Porter should be a good example of the application of that notion, and look where that's gotten us! I wouldnt have chosen akron as my place of learning had i known that there werent ANY athletics.... and thats a fact. What would your decision have been if all the programs remained the same except football was a D1A and playing in the tournament for the national championship every year?? As a current student...your opinion is relavent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z.I.P. Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 What about the grad students who are sports medicine, management, etc? The athletics department is really their "internship" and gets their foot into the door to a career in some facet of athletics. Given how much of an integral part of society sports has become and the number of personnel needed to completely operate any level of professional sports, shutting down all athletics at our universities save for the ones that actually turn a profit deprives those students of an opportunity to gain further experience in knowledge in the field they chose as their career. Is that fair to them? Absolutely not! As an aside about your last comment, the only reason OSU buys wins in september is because the NCAA lets them and they exploit it to the max. Do you honestly think beating up the little kids on the block is what they REALLY want? Ask any coach... if you want to be the best, you have to play the best. Coach Porter should be a good example of the application of that notion, and look where that's gotten us! I wouldnt have chosen akron as my place of learning had i known that there werent ANY athletics.... and thats a fact. I think we can probably agree -- based on the number of students attending athletic events on campus, that zipsman's passionate defense of subsidized collegiate athletics represents perhaps 2 percent of the student body. Does anyone seriously believe that this exercise in excess for the benefit of the few would or could win any free exercise in democracy -- i.e., an election of the student body? I am glad that zipsman wants to support the jocks on campus -- but perhaps he should be paying what would constitute a market price for the tickets, rather than having his fellow students subsidize his entertainment. Please don't allow this article to get out to the student bodies of public universities. We may have the start of the #OccupyUniversity Movement! But of course for that to occur, we would first have to replace sports as the current opiate of the masses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbozeglav Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 What would your decision have been if all the programs remained the same except football was a D1A and playing in the tournament for the national championship every year?? As a current student...your opinion is relavent. I assume that by D1A you mean FCS, just so we're on the same page. If thats true, my decision probably would have remained close to the same. I will admit my decision was quite a ways back, and although I'm still young, I can't tell you everything that was going through my head as a 18 year old who's looking towards graduation from high school and moving up in the world. However, given the scenario you've presented me in your reply, I would say my decision probably would have remained close to the same. However I wish to add an asterisk to that statement simply because my passion for Zips athletics has grown since I started here and it skews my view on the matter, but I don't think the football program being FCS would have made me less interested. If they were FCS and were consistent competitors in the playoffs, I want to believe that would have been enough for me. Again, hard to say with a high degree of certainty due to the time elapsed since my decision and that my view on Zips athletics has changed dramatically (partially due to ZNO! ) I think we can probably agree -- based on the number of students attending athletic events on campus, that zipsman's passionate defense of subsidized collegiate athletics represents perhaps 2 percent of the student body. Does anyone seriously believe that this exercise in excess for the benefit of the few would or could win any free exercise in democracy -- i.e., an election of the student body? I am glad that zipsman wants to support the jocks on campus -- but perhaps he should be paying what would constitute a market price for the tickets, rather than having his fellow students subsidize his entertainment. Please don't allow this article to get out to the student bodies of public universities. We may have the start of the #OccupyUniversity Movement! But of course for that to occur, we would first have to replace sports as the current opiate of the masses. well played, sir You bring up a valid point that I am in the minority. I will admit that and its always evident. However, couldn't that be said of pretty much any university of our size? I ask because I think that type of scenario applies to most if not all D1 collegiate programs and would like to see if someone else could agree to that I will also point out that there will always be people out there who wish to axe off anything athletics because they believe them to be corrupt and a waste of time/money. That's free speech for you, and I respect that... I just think its a bit absurd to believe axing off the entire department serves some kind of institutional advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip_ME87 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 College sports teams are big business, and some coaches are cashing in No problem with Men's Basketball and Men's Soccer salaries, but football...is that really what Akron currently pays per year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 College sports teams are big business, and some coaches are cashing in No problem with Men's Basketball and Men's Soccer salaries, but football...is that really what Akron currently pays per year? I'm sure it is, since that is the total compensation including car allowance, etc. $1,147,400 (2-years worth of compensation) for 2* wins? Great deal for the Zips. * Note - I think we will beat K.e.n.t. this season, so the combined 2-year win total will be "3." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Personally, I get as much enjoyment out of watching the pay-to-play Zips hockey club as I do any other sport. Maybe more, it's an exciting sport. As someone who pays for their own tuition (with 20 hours of overtime a week), I could sure do without that annual athletic fee. I really see NO REASON to pay part of a scholarship for softball players. I don't go to the games, and from the looks of it neither does anybody else but family and friends. And they pay nothing to watch. That's because I already paid for them. The schools try to hide all these programs because of "student life". Well how many of these sports do students actually GO WATCH? They spend lots of money marketing these teams to the students, money we paid, and nobody goes. They spend more money to market to the general public in a desperate drive to keep the football team above the NCAA I-A requirements. It's not like students are chosing Akron (or Can't) because of the great legacy they have in football... What do I care if the football team is Division I-A? And by what definition are they? Because they beat a team from a BCS conference every few years? Because they're paid big money to be warm-up fodder to a REAL I-A program every year? None of these schools (besides maybe Toledo) have any business pretending to be I-A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 None of these schools (besides maybe Toledo) have any business pretending to be I-A. Temple seems to be doing a nice job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zips Win! Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Personally, I get as much enjoyment out of watching the pay-to-play Zips hockey club as I do any other sport. Maybe more, it's an exciting sport. As someone who pays for their own tuition (with 20 hours of overtime a week), I could sure do without that annual athletic fee. I really see NO REASON to pay part of a scholarship for softball players. I don't go to the games, and from the looks of it neither does anybody else but family and friends. And they pay nothing to watch. That's because I already paid for them. The schools try to hide all these programs because of "student life". Well how many of these sports do students actually GO WATCH? They spend lots of money marketing these teams to the students, money we paid, and nobody goes. They spend more money to market to the general public in a desperate drive to keep the football team above the NCAA I-A requirements. It's not like students are chosing Akron (or Can't) because of the great legacy they have in football... What do I care if the football team is Division I-A? And by what definition are they? Because they beat a team from a BCS conference every few years? Because they're paid big money to be warm-up fodder to a REAL I-A program every year? None of these schools (besides maybe Toledo) have any business pretending to be I-A. It's a free country...Then transfer if you don't like it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbozeglav Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I mean this in the best way possible, and am seriously trying to drive an intelligent and encompassing discussion of this topic... so don't take it as a personal attack... but... If you are a registered member here, you consider yourself a sports fan, namely of UA, right? I will assume yes because to my knowledge its the only possible answer. That is unless youre from another school here to do whatever it is you do when you visit a rival's fan board, but I digress. Point is, if youre a fan of UA sports, why should i take your argument of cutting scholly's and programs all together seriously? To me, as an objective and evaluative person, I see hypocritical arguments because youre arguing against something youre here to support and discuss. If this discussion was taking place on, say, the comment section of an Ohio.com article, then I wouldnt be saying this because i know most people there arent there to support Akron athletics, but the context of WHERE this discussion is taking place is what inclines me to think this. I mean no direct offense, but its an observation i came upon after thinking about this subject. Some mention dropping to FCS or whatever the next level down is. Thats much more realistic of an opinion, one I could support in a few ways. Football? youre damn sure thats a good idea RIGHT NOW (maybe not in the long term unless this conference shakedown forces us out), but I would give up all support of the university if they took soccer and basketball with them. Those programs deserve I-A status by any and all means possible. Honestly, i believe athletics to be an integral part of collegiate activity in both the entertainment and student life areas, in addition to the growth of the students themselves who participate in the sports WHILE ALSO maintaining full-load class schedules. Those student-athletes that graduate with a degree AND competed regularly are students we should be proud of... not upset their sport cost our school $500,000 a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-mann17 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Personally, I get as much enjoyment out of watching the pay-to-play Zips hockey club as I do any other sport. Maybe more, it's an exciting sport. As someone who pays for their own tuition (with 20 hours of overtime a week), I could sure do without that annual athletic fee. I really see NO REASON to pay part of a scholarship for softball players. I don't go to the games, and from the looks of it neither does anybody else but family and friends. And they pay nothing to watch. That's because I already paid for them. The schools try to hide all these programs because of "student life". Well how many of these sports do students actually GO WATCH? They spend lots of money marketing these teams to the students, money we paid, and nobody goes. They spend more money to market to the general public in a desperate drive to keep the football team above the NCAA I-A requirements. It's not like students are chosing Akron (or Can't) because of the great legacy they have in football... What do I care if the football team is Division I-A? And by what definition are they? Because they beat a team from a BCS conference every few years? Because they're paid big money to be warm-up fodder to a REAL I-A program every year? None of these schools (besides maybe Toledo) have any business pretending to be I-A. It's a free country...Then transfer if you don't like it.. I will support ZW! on this one. I've said it to many people who complain about what Spin is complaining about. If you don't like all the bells and whistles that are associated with college, and you don't want to participate in the events that your money goes to support, you can go be a Phoenix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 None of these schools (besides maybe Toledo) have any business pretending to be I-A. Temple seems to be doing a nice job. True. I was talking Ohio, but yeah Temple looks to be moving up on the food chain soon, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 It's a free country...Then transfer if you don't like it.. To.......... ? Can't State? Cleveland State? Same situation. Heck at CSU I would be paying fees and not watching football or baseball or hockey. A two year school? I'm in the fourth year of a Bachelor program. The issue isn't with Akron, per se. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I mean this in the best way possible, and am seriously trying to drive an intelligent and encompassing discussion of this topic... so don't take it as a personal attack... but... If you are a registered member here, you consider yourself a sports fan, namely of UA, right? I will assume yes because to my knowledge its the only possible answer. That is unless youre from another school here to do whatever it is you do when you visit a rival's fan board, but I digress. Point is, if youre a fan of UA sports, why should i take your argument of cutting scholly's and programs all together seriously? To me, as an objective and evaluative person, I see hypocritical arguments because youre arguing against something youre here to support and discuss. If this discussion was taking place on, say, the comment section of an Ohio.com article, then I wouldnt be saying this because i know most people there arent there to support Akron athletics, but the context of WHERE this discussion is taking place is what inclines me to think this. I mean no direct offense, but its an observation i came upon after thinking about this subject. Some mention dropping to FCS or whatever the next level down is. Thats much more realistic of an opinion, one I could support in a few ways. Football? youre damn sure thats a good idea RIGHT NOW (maybe not in the long term unless this conference shakedown forces us out), but I would give up all support of the university if they took soccer and basketball with them. Those programs deserve I-A status by any and all means possible. Honestly, i believe athletics to be an integral part of collegiate activity in both the entertainment and student life areas, in addition to the growth of the students themselves who participate in the sports WHILE ALSO maintaining full-load class schedules. Those student-athletes that graduate with a degree AND competed regularly are students we should be proud of... not upset their sport cost our school $500,000 a year. Apparently you guys missed te point of my first sentence. Just because I have comments about how something is funded, and how much is funded to it, doesn't mean I don't like sports. I think the U, like a lot of them, spends wayyyyyy too much money trying to play at a level they can't be competitive at. They wind up dumping a bunch of money trying to reach an attendance figure, to stay at a level your 1-5 in. Same with Can't. Same with OU (cept they're 1-4). 1-5 isn't going to inspire anybody to spend a Saturday afternoon there, no matter how much money they put into advertising. They're not inspiring students to go to games as part of their college experience while playing this kind of football. I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said on here before. Like I said, I have more fun at a hockey game, or a baseball game (a program that apparently makes up a spec on the athletic budget) than at the Info. I had fun at Wayne College games when I attended there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-mann17 Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 It's a free country...Then transfer if you don't like it.. To.......... ? Can't State? Cleveland State? Same situation. Heck at CSU I would be paying fees and not watching football or baseball or hockey. A two year school? I'm in the fourth year of a Bachelor program. The issue isn't with Akron, per se. Like I said, go be a Phoenix. If you don't enjoy yourself at the football games that's your problem. Either that or you are lying to make a point. You say you enjoy the baseball games, well obviously you don't mind watching a non competitive team. So why exactly don't you enjoy being at the football game? Why bother, you will just SPIN it to try and make your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 When it comes to athletic spending, Akron has the most efficient department in the country. We get the most out of what we spend. The argument that it's not worth the money doesn't hold as much weight as it would at any other FBS school in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue & Gold Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I haven't read through this thread, so please forgive me if I'm just reiterating what has already been posted. However, this topic comes up occassionally & I usually post - more-or-less - the following: I'm of the belief that D-1A school administrators essentially consider athletics a large part of their advertising campaigns. Accountants don't combine the two, but that's how I'm sure school administrators feel about the athletic programs. Schools - outside of the Ivy League, I suppose - almost always receive more "free" publicity over athletic, rather than academic, accomplishments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 You guys are driving this completely off the cliff. This crap is like someone saying they don't think Icoach is doing a good job and everyone else jumping on their ass for hating football. Crimony... Let's all hold hands and sing the Barney theme, and burn anyone at the stake who says anything negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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