UofA's Rhodes Arena Study

[zippy5]

Good point.

According to the University, intercollegiate athletics are funded in part by the "General Service Fee", which is $33.16. Using the same assumption as above, that amounts to $26,528 contributed by the students in attendance Wednesday night.

I think I've made my point. Students are forced to contribute a lot to this program. The least the University could do is reward those of us who actually give a shit.

Edit: It turns out that the 33.16 is per credit hour. So make that (33.16*12)*800= $318,336.

But what's an order of magnitude amongst friends?

That's assuming every dollar spent in that fee went to one game..

[ksu sucks]

That's assuming every dollar spent in that fee went to one game..

I understand that. I'm making a point. The students contribute a lot to this program(monetarily).

Despite that, the options are:

a) Sit down on the floor with the same 30 dudes who have been buddies since they were freshman 12 years ago, or

b ) Sit up top in the bleachers and removed from the action.

It's a shitty set-up. I hope the University either decides to renovate the JAR or build new in the next five years. This program has a lot of momentum and we can't even organize a student section worth a damn. It's frustrating.

[Spin]

It turns out that the 33.16 is per credit hour.

Which for a "typical" 12 credit hour student, that equals $800.00 a year.

I understand what you're saying, I attend as a student, and have observed the way students are treated at men's soccer and men's basketball games. "You're not a Rowdie? Go over there and leave us alone."

There is so much more potential prime seating in a facility the size of the JAR, if it had been designed properly. There's so much wasted space. Obstructions. Multi-purpose "labs" that I wonder if they have even been used the past decade.

[Dr Z]

I'm making a point.

I get your point.

[g-mann17]

Price of season tickets to all sporting events (Priority Reserved).

Football - $250

M Basketball - $760

M Soccer - $110 (bleacher back only, chair back are sold out and waiting listed)

Then Women's basketball and soccer is probably an additional $200

$1320 for tickets, premium parking costs extra.

Students pay at max $1197.36 to the general service fee each year.

This is split between 5 seperate programs:

the health professionals in Student Health Services;

intramurals;

UA-recognized student organizations;

intercollegiate athletics;

other co-curricular activities.

So the full $1200 isn't even going to just athletics, we'll be generous and say 50% is for just D-1 Athletics. That is less then $600. Yet you are saying you should get $1400 worth of benefits?

I think our student section sucks, there are only so many options because of the JAR layout. How about you guys propose an additional $20 fee per credit hour and you could raise an additional $14.4 million a year (minus summer classes) and build a new arena for the school. Then you can sit where the heck you want.

[zippy5]

I understand that. I'm making a point. The students contribute a lot to this program(monetarily).

Despite that, the options are:

a) Sit down on the floor with the same 30 dudes who have been buddies since they were freshman 12 years ago

lol I didn't want to be the one that said it

[ksu sucks]

First of all, if you're going to base this purely on economics, then there is no question that the average student contributes more money to the University than the average premium/season ticket holder. No one would deny that the University and the athletic departments absolutely need the financial support that student tuition and fees provides.

You can grab any numbers you want and bend them how you please, but it's nothing more than a value judgement on your part in the end. Without the students, the University wouldn't exist.

I'm merely asking for the University to consider the students. If that means a replacement for the JAR...then let's make it happen.

And no, I'm not going to ask for a fee increase. How about Proenza sells his yacht and puts the proceeds toward a new arena?

Dr. Proenza and his wife, Theresa Butler Proenza, enjoy their careers, friends and numerous community activities. Together, they built the 44-foot sailing vessel, Apogee, which they sail on Lake Erie.

(source)

[g-mann17]

Students pay for service, that they receive. Fans pay for entertainment. Donors give money, most of those people in the front rows are big donors that contribute $10000 plus a year on top of the season ticket cost. The only quality thing you can give them in the JAR is court side seets.

That is why we need a new arena. That is why renovation won't work.

[ksu sucks]

Students pay for service, that they receive.

Student pay money because they expect to get an education. Just like every other school, there's a large number of students that really don't want to pay for athletics. They have no choice. And don't tell me that transferring is an option, because this is the nature of the beast at every major university in the country.

That is why we need a new arena. That is why renovation won't work.

We can agree there.

[g-mann17]

Student pay money because they expect to get an education. Just like every other school, there's a large number of students that really don't want to pay for athletics. They have no choice. And don't tell me that transferring is an option, because this is the nature of the beast at every major university in the country.

We can agree there.

Athletics is an insignificant cost with regards to tuition. And the general fee goes to more than just intercollegiate athletics.

Students that don't want it, or don't take advantage of it are doing a disservice to themselves.

[ksu sucks]

Athletics is an insignificant cost with regards to tuition. And the general fee goes to more than just intercollegiate athletics.

Let me try this again....The University needs the student's financial support. Whether it's for academics or athletics...the university needs the student's money. Why do you think Proenza wants enrollment to increase to 40,000? I'll give you a hint: it has nothing to do with improving the individual attention that every student receives.

Students that don't want it....are doing a disservice to themselves.

No, they just have different priorities. And who can blame them? Just look at how the U treats them. The University knows that they will get cash from the students, so why bother catering to them? The University caters toward the premium ticket holders because they choose to purchase tickets. They aren't held hostage like the students.

[Dave in Green]

The relationship between universities and students is symbiotic:

Universities need students to pay the bills to keep the universities in business.

Students need universities to get a higher education that will help students earn more money over the course of their professional careers.

So students don't really provide financial support to a university. Students invest in a university education for their own personal gain.

Athletics represent a small portion of the total package of higher education. The debate over the relative importance of athletics, how athletics should be paid for, what students should get in return for the small portion of tuition allocated to athletics, etc., is as old as universities and college athletics.

[Spin]

Wow, this certainly blew up from "students do pay for admission and should be treated better"...

[g-mann17]

"If*" a new arena is built, the University and its planning company have narrowed it down to two locations.

Spicer and Exchange

Main Street across from Canal Park.

source

*I say if, feeling like it is a foregone conclusion that a JAR reno is not feasible.

[Dr Z]

"...its planning company have narrowed it down to two locations. Spicer and Exchange or Main Street across from Canal Park.

For no other reason than aesthetics, the corner of Spicer & Exchange could use some vertical presence.

[lance99]

"If*" a new arena is built, the University and its planning company have narrowed it down to two locations.

Spicer and Exchange

Main Street across from Canal Park.

source

*I say if, feeling like it is a foregone conclusion that a JAR reno is not feasible.

I just do not see the Main St site happening and here is why. On that corner is the following:

Canal Park(not moving)

The old O'Neils building(not going anywhere)

Polsky Building(already owns)

That leaves the Mayflower. This becomes a issue because it is Public Housing and there is probably not enough space for a arena. East of Route 8 sounds like a good spot, or Spicer/ Exchange

[Blue & Gold]

I just do not see the Main St site happening and here is why. On that corner is the following:

Canal Park(not moving)

The old O'Neils building(not going anywhere)

Polsky Building(already owns)

That leaves the Mayflower. This becomes a issue because it is Public Housing and there is probably not enough space for a arena. East of Route 8 sounds like a good spot, or Spicer/ Exchange

I'm pretty sure there is enough space for an arena there. For years now the city has had plans for an arena on that sight, with the Mayflower still standing (hopefully converted into student housing - not to be mean, but the current Mayflower clientele is not the least bit conducive to an entertainment district).

I think the kink that must be worked out will be the hockey -vs- basketball arena conflict. The city really wants a hockey arena on that sight. The U, however, seems to definitely favor a basketball arena. If the U is not down for a hockey arena (which I, personally, hope they are not) the city may not sell them the land. (?) Thus the U may have to build on the Spicer/Exchange sight.

In the long run that may be best anyhow. Maybe in a few years the city & county can get together and build a hockey arena across from Canal Park. They are able to host ice capades, arena football & soccer, etc.

[tbozeglav]

Here's where I have a problem with this part of the topic. We sit here and speculate about where this new arena will be built. I agree with most people in that this arena will more likely be a University-only project more than a partnership with the City due to the constraints the City would place on the design. Thats not the problem... The problem is location. Spicer and Exchange? REALLY? To build an arena there, we'd have to purchase closer to 20 properties on that single block to fit an arena no bigger than the JAR. In fact, that block wouldn't be able to hold any arena larger than BGSU's brand-spankin-new Stroh Center. Toledo's Savage Arena, which was built in '76? That wouldn't fit if you tried. That means the University would then have to buy 2 blocks-worth of properties, assuming all owners willingly sell (id guarantee we'd end up with another Manny's situation) to fit a properly-sized arena with all the amenities (suites and the like) into that area of campus. How many people REALISTICALLY see that happening? Don't count me as one..

Point is, I sincerely doubt it would get built there. Can it? If there's a will, theres a way; I just think the way is the same route we took to get Infocision Stadium built, and we all remember the headache that came from that.

I still put my money on the space between the Kaiser building and the Mayflower building. The area would look GREAT with a modern basketball arena and theres realistically no other open and large enough space for such a building.

[tbozeglav]

hahaha and as if almost on cue i get this message from the infamous "Jake":

The university already owns most of that block. E.D. won't likely be an issue And another "Manny" situation is not a mess for UA. It is part and parcel of their job to engage ED when necessary and UA has a good track record of not using ED. There is far more space there than the foot print of the JAR. Take a look. You might be surprised.

Downtown is not on campus and does not look on campus and UA is not going to invest $80 million to build something that looks like a Don Plusquallec facility. Alumni won't let it happen and they will be the ones to pay for the arena. The city does not and will not have one penny to contribute to the project. If UA doesn't do it their way, an arena will never happen at all. That is a quote from a high ranking UA administrator who also told me that hte Exchange Street/Specier Site is a probability.

all hail the almighty and all-knowing jake! lol

[g-mann17]

I think people know my preferred location...

Three things to keep in mind...

1. The footprint of the JAR includes classrooms and office space. So when you compare that to the foot print of the block of land meant by Spicer and Exchange, keep in mind that a new arena with the same footprint as the JAR could be much larger.

2. The space between Mayflower and the Kaiser building is empty parking lots and unused streets.

3. The majority of the property between Exchange, Spicer, Goodkirk is already owned by the University.

I still think downtown is the more likely scenario because of the strong backing of UPA, Summit County, and Akron. Its easier to get buy in for this type of thing when you can point to a unified agenda.

I think Main St. is the plan and Spicer is the fall back option.

[Blue & Gold]

Here's where I have a problem with this part of the topic. We sit here and speculate about where this new arena will be built. I agree with most people in that this arena will more likely be a University-only project more than a partnership with the City due to the constraints the City would place on the design. Thats not the problem... The problem is location. Spicer and Exchange? REALLY? To build an arena there, we'd have to purchase closer to 20 properties on that single block to fit an arena no bigger than the JAR. In fact, that block wouldn't be able to hold any arena larger than BGSU's brand-spankin-new Stroh Center. Toledo's Savage Arena, which was built in '76? That wouldn't fit if you tried. That means the University would then have to buy 2 blocks-worth of properties, assuming all owners willingly sell (id guarantee we'd end up with another Manny's situation) to fit a properly-sized arena with all the amenities (suites and the like) into that area of campus. How many people REALISTICALLY see that happening? Don't count me as one..

Point is, I sincerely doubt it would get built there. Can it? If there's a will, theres a way; I just think the way is the same route we took to get Infocision Stadium built, and we all remember the headache that came from that.

I still put my money on the space between the Kaiser building and the Mayflower building. The area would look GREAT with a modern basketball arena and theres realistically no other open and large enough space for such a building.

There really is more space there than one would think. I know I was surprised. A year or two ago I Google-Earth'ed the sight, along w/ a few footprints of other arenas and found that the location could comfortably hold either Pitt's Peterson Events Center (a 12,500-seat facility) or the U of St. Louis' Chaifetz Arena (10,600). You could even squeeze the Hartford Civic Center (16,294) or the Providence Dunkin' Donuts Center (12,400) into the sight.

Edit: I'm referring to the on-campus sight.

[Dave in Green]

Maybe Jake has better sources than some give him credit for.

In any case, the Spicer/Exchange area is well within the University Park Alliance's University Square District. As discussed earlier in this thread, a new arena would make a nice anchor for the "mixed use development" envisioned for that area. As the master plan states:

The new “University Square” will be a managed environment that people will feel comfortable, but also open to the greater public. While the University will drive much of the demand for University Square, the development needs to appeal to, and be supported by the wider market and will have to be self sufficient.

[akzipper]

Gotta go with Spicer-Exchange site. If building it downtown means it will get done faster, then yes I'll settle on that location. But you have to believe UA wants it right next to InfoCision. Like I've said, imagine the view from the east driving on Route8 seeing the stadium and arena both right there! Build a decent sized parking deck and a small plaza it will be a great place to hang out before and after games. I'd even suggest moving Zipsfest to that area, as opposed to next to the REC where they have it now.

[yazan07]

"That could be downtown, across from Canal Park, where the Akron Aeros play minor-league baseball, on property that UA currently does not own, or on university property at the corner of East Exchange and Spicer streets, just east of InfoCision Stadium."

That is not the same as "they narrowed it down to across from Canal Park and corner of Spicer and Exchange."

Also, which corner of Spicer and Exchange specifically is being referred to?

[scottditzen]

For me I am undecided between the two locations. Though, my keen senses tell me that the article did not limit the selection to two sites.

[edit - I see Yaz is in agreement here]

I disagree on the point that the U wants the arena next to the stadium. If the idea is to share parking facilities I get that, but I think there's already enough parking in existence for football. Maybe a garage to supplement future peripheral development aka University Square? I could understand that.

http://www.upakron.com/uploads/akron-core-...ive-summary.pdf

I just think, in general, the benefits of consolidating sports facilities are very much overrated. I like the image akzipper presents of hanging out before and after games. But in every instance (Reds/Bengals, Tribe/Cavs, Lions/Tigers, etc.) I can't say that the two venues feed off of each other. But instead, the other venue is actually a "dead zone" that provides little to enhance the environment.

The most important question IMHO is what location provides the best bang for creating or improving retail (or public space) and other spinoff development.

I can see this happening on Main very easily. Then again, as Dave said, the Spicer/Exchange option fits this purpose as well and could jump start the entire development. Although I feel the proximity being "hemmed in" by Route 8 actually hurts this potential a bit. But the BW3 block could be improved. And there is room for development along Spicer and even on the Lot 9 corner.

Gotta go with Spicer-Exchange site. If building it downtown means it will get done faster, then yes I'll settle on that location. But you have to believe UA wants it right next to InfoCision. Like I've said, imagine the view from the east driving on Route8 seeing the stadium and arena both right there! Build a decent sized parking deck and a small plaza it will be a great place to hang out before and after games. I'd even suggest moving Zipsfest to that area, as opposed to next to the REC where they have it now.