scottditzen Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Interesting: FBS Division 1 Offers: Ohio State, Michigan, Illinois, Nebraska, Stanford, Wisconsin, Akron, Notre Dame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Adams Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Can't ignore his past behavior because as someone above said we don't know this guy personally. Prior behavior especially when it appears to be consistent in one direction or the other is the best way to TRY to determine whether or not behavior in the future will be similar or change. Obviously the reaosn WE know about this guy is because of his potential as a football player not as a student or an upstanding member of the community. Very high risk,POSSIBLE high reward. His behavior, whatever it turns out to be positive or negative will have an effect on many around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Most people from Youngstown have a bullet wound or two. No big deal. It's not Mayberry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Z Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Donate the jacket to a shelter in Youngstown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 There's some risk with every recruit. How high is the risk with Jamel Turner? A quick check of Youngstown and Mahoning County court records shows no mention of Jamel Turner. He has not been cited for so much as a single speeding ticket. I'd expect that the UA coaching staff would have done an even more thorough job of checking into Turner's background, and would have a fair degree of confidence that he's not a bad kid. Unfortunately, way too many youths get gunned down these days in tough neighborhoods, and not all of them are bad kids. I'm OK with UA taking some reasonable risks with some kids as long as it doesn't result in a high percentage getting in trouble after enrollment as we've seen with the Can't basketball team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Adams Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 If you ran a business and were hiring and had several prospects to chose from and the other prospects did not have the background this guy has,would you hire him? Everything you know about all the prospects is public knowledge and fair game. Just like with this guy. Lets say at least one or two other prospects made it through school with decent, not great grades and hadn't had issues that this guy had. Thats the same type of choice a university makes when spending time and resources on prospective student athletes. You spend valuable time and resources on prospects who appear to have the best opportunity to make it on the job or in school. By the way,as a parole officer I worked with guys from Y.town. No not 'everybody'over there has a few bullet holes in them or has been arrested,been kicked out of school etc,etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 I'm OK with UA taking some reasonable risks with some kids as long as it doesn't result in a high percentage getting in trouble after enrollment as we've seen with the Can't basketball team. I agree with your comments about risk. We do need to take risk. However, that risk should not put any student, athlete or non-athlete, at risk. Safety comes first. This guy seems to be around, not once...but twice, a situation where a person not only had a gun, but was willing to use it. Like I said, I am willing to look past a lot in order to win, but safety comes first and I think this guy doesn't just put others at risk of having to watch a cop write up a speeding ticket for him, but he puts the lives of himself and others at risk with the people he associates with. Youngstown is only one hour from Akron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyzip84 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 This comes courtesy of Office Space, the finest movie on corporate silliness of all time: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akronzips71 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 I am concerned with his academic issues. Here is a guy that as a senior in High School is so highly sought after that it is fair to assume he would probably be a millionaire four years down the road. That was apparently not enough incentive for him to hit the books. And we all know that teachers try to "help out" highly rated athletes. This shows a lack of judgement and dedication that may not translate well onto the football field. Time will tell. He may be gone in a flash or he may be the next Akron player in the Pro Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 According to court testimony in the second shooting incident, the 18-year-old Turner was watching TV with a 17-year-old girl in a house where she was babysitting for a 4-year-old child. He had met the girl several years earlier at a church function. The girl's jealous ex-boyfriend showed up with a gun and shot them both, killing her and wounding Turner. No question that Turner had a rough childhood in a rough neighborhood and made some mistakes. But at least in the case of the second shooting, court testimony in the trial of the shooter -- who was convicted of murder -- suggests that Turner did nothing wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadszip Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Comment directed to all, not wadszip individually. Terry Bowden is the coach of the team, not Jim Tressel. Terry Bowden is a football coach in good standing with the NCAA and will be dealing with the football team on a daily basis. Jim Tressel is a guy who was thrown out of the NCAA and will be doing something other than coaching football. Terry Bowden didn't need a second chance for anything. He isn't doing this for the money or the glory...he has plenty of both. Jim Tressel isn't doing it for the second chance. He already has his money and glory as well. This isn't a stroy about second chances. It is a story about risk and how much risk an organization is willing to take on a person. Good post, and I guess I'll clarify on the second chance Bowden is getting. Simply that this is his first Division I gig since being let go at Auburn. I didn't mean to insinuate that Bowden had any NCAA issues or was blackballed from coaching. I'm sure he could've had many other opportunities to coach at the Division I level, but this technically still is his second chance at this level. On the same token, he still is a guy who will stick his neck out and take kids with question marks (Janoris Jenkins). Some may not like that philosophy, but personally, I respect it. As for Tressel, I agree he didn't need to come to Akron for money or glory, but for right or wrong, he needed it for his legacy. Again, personally, I think he got railroaded by the NCAA, but his reputation has taken a major beating nationally. Who knows what his role will ultimately be, and due to the show cause, it won't be in an athletic capacity for at least five years. But the fact that he is on campus, he can still serve as a role model to not only athletes, but the student body in general, on how to persevere when things get tough. Basically, regardless of why either are at Akron, both can be role models, especially for a young man like Jamel Turner, because despite both achieving great success, they've also had some tougher times, which is something most people can relate to. Overall, I realize that this is a contentious topic, and some people will disagree that The University of Akron should take on risks like Jamel Turner. I will respect those people's opinions, but I will point out one of the school's success stories in Derrick Tarver. His past resembles Turner's in a lot of ways, including being a kid from a tough neighborhood who made some mistakes and was shot as a teenager. His promising career seemed derailed at 18-19, but after going to community college and refocusing, he came back to Akron and was very successful at the university, even after facing more adversity with the heart condition that forced his brother, Darren, to give up the game. Tarver's now 32 and is still making a good living playing pro basketball in Europe/Asia. I know there were a lot of people in Akron who thought Derrick would be dead or in jail by now, but after getting a second shot at UA, he has become a productive member of society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadszip Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 I agree with your comments about risk. We do need to take risk. However, that risk should not put any student, athlete or non-athlete, at risk. Safety comes first. This guy seems to be around, not once...but twice, a situation where a person not only had a gun, but was willing to use it. Like I said, I am willing to look past a lot in order to win, but safety comes first and I think this guy doesn't just put others at risk of having to watch a cop write up a speeding ticket for him, but he puts the lives of himself and others at risk with the people he associates with. Youngstown is only one hour from Akron. Going back to my Tarver comparison, I'm sure there was some of that same sentiment at the time he was admitted to UA. And he was actually from Akron, meaning those influences he had as a teenager were still right next door. And he didn't put anybody in danger. It's one thing if Turner was the shooter in both instances, then there would be real reason for concern. But if UA decided to not take kids (or adults) who come from "dangerous" surroundings, the school's enrollment would be a lot lower than what it currently is. That's just life as an urban university, and people going to UA should understand that not everybody attending the school are from Wadsworth, Copley, Hudson, Tallmadge, etc. Students here come from all walks... both athletes and non-athletes. That's one of the reasons why I love UA so much. It's a diverse school ... socially, economically, racially. We have people from all walks in our classes. That is a good thing, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Z Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Will Jamel do the Same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottditzen Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Talk about traumatic. I'm thinking once you go through that kind of terrible experience, it would be fairly easy to just not care that much about school, or have the ability to see the overall importance of it. If I had to guess, I'd guess that the football field is a place where Turner can tune out all the negative, and excel by focusing and just being in the moment. On the other hand, sitting in a classroom you have time to really think. And that's where the realities of life have the time to catch up to you. According to court testimony in the second shooting incident, the 18-year-old Turner was watching TV with a 17-year-old girl in a house where she was babysitting for a 4-year-old child. He had met the girl several years earlier at a church function. The girl's jealous ex-boyfriend showed up with a gun and shot them both, killing her and wounding Turner. No question that Turner had a rough childhood in a rough neighborhood and made some mistakes. But at least in the case of the second shooting, court testimony in the trial of the shooter -- who was convicted of murder -- suggests that Turner did nothing wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Adams Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Saying he did nothing wrong is far too simplistic. No he didn't end up in jail. It seems like a lot of people assume or believe things 'just happen' to people. Maybe if you're sitting at a stop sign and somebody rearends you, that 'just happens'. Usually,there are a lot of concious decisions made by a number of people when people start getting shot or shot at...more than once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-mann17 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Saying he did nothing wrong is far too simplistic. No he didn't end up in jail. It seems like a lot of people assume or believe things 'just happen' to people. Maybe if you're sitting at a stop sign and somebody rearends you, that 'just happens'. Usually,there are a lot of concious decisions made by a number of people when people start getting shot or shot at...more than once. Yeah because people don't just lose their $#!% and start shooting people... Seattle Miami You assume guilt by association, some people are friends with who they need to be friends with to survive. It doesn't mean they themselves are doing anything bad. Quite honestly you are an @$$ for continuing this same line of thinking ad nauseum, we get it, you think he's a risk, now shut up about it. It's shameful that people like you are "fans". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Adams Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Gee, guess if people don't fit your definition of whatever it is you are defining they are hard to tolerate? By the way I have been called an @$$ in better places by better folks than on here. Sorry it upsets you so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Z Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I would love to hear coach Amato's opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 While I personally believe it's fair to point out risk potential in generalities, I don't think it's fair to assume the worst about any individual based only on sketchy, circumstantial evidence without a more thorough analysis of all the facts. Of course, no one knows better how unfair life can be than kids who, through no fault of their own, were forced to survive in the wild jungle of the toughest neighborhoods while other kids, through no merit of their own, enjoyed the advantaged life of the protected suburbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyzip84 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 A pretty good summary of Jamel's journey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottditzen Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 A pretty good summary of Jamel's journey That's a pretty good read. I'll be rooting for this kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I have seen some talents not make it but I have to put Turner never playing college football up there with Antwon Hight and Chuck Jones as the biggest tragedies that I have witnessed in my time doing this. Antwon Hight...gotta add his name to "The Best Zip Never" list we were working on a few months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 While I personally believe it's fair to point out risk potential in generalities, I don't think it's fair to assume the worst about any individual based only on sketchy, circumstantial evidence without a more thorough analysis of all the facts. Of course, no one knows better how unfair life can be than kids who, through no fault of their own, were forced to survive in the wild jungle of the toughest neighborhoods while other kids, through no merit of their own, enjoyed the advantaged life of the protected suburbs. I think most people assume the worst because of the history of the number of times these types of situations don't work out vs. the number of times they turn into great success stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 This is probably the best look at the situation I've seen so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 @skip-zip, I agree with you on the assumption issue. Of course we see a lot in the media about the ones that go wrong, and especially the ones that go terribly wrong. But that's the way the media works. They only rarely report on one of the many airliners that lands safely on time. But every airliner crash gets covered in the media, and the bigger the crash the greater the coverage. So the bigger question to me is what's the real percentage of situations like this that don't work out vs. those with happier endings that never get reported? I haven't been able to find that stat on statsheet.com . I suspect the results vary significantly based on the specifics of each individual case. That's why it's so important that the coaching staff and admissions office do their due diligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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