Darian Hicks (Solon CB)

[Dr Z]

3-Star Scout Recruit

Commits to MSU

According to Rivals, Hicks' offer list includes Michigan State, Boston College, Cincinnati, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Louisville, Minnesota, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Purdue, Syracuse, Virginia and West Virginia, among other schools. Akron offered, but he didn't visit and was listed as "not interested"

I list this because of TB's comment in his radio interview on June 5th where he stated "We need to put up a fence around the Akron, Canton, Cleveland and Youngstown area. Any recruit not going to OSU, should be coming to Akron."

Hopefully putting some W's up this year starts to change the minds of recruits like Darian.

[LZIp]

Obviously that is the goal. But there is so much talent in NE Ohio, it's not a realistic goal.

[GP1]

But there is so much talent in NE Ohio, it's not a realistic goal.

Mayber there isn't as much "real" D-1A talent as we may think.

Our coach wrote this article when he was still writing.

I think when you look at it in terms of population and REAL D-1A schools, a different picture can be painted.

Ohio has eight d1 schools. Let's be honest. The MAC is a d1 conference in name only and it takes up six if the eight spots. Ohio really only has two d1 schools and only one BCS level school that will move up to the super division when it is finally created. UNCC is calling itself a d1 school now and it hasn't played a game EVER. The term d1 gets used too loosely and distorts the reality because there is no real barrier to entry. I understand people from Ohio like to believe it is an elite recruiting state, because "it just is". It's average in most ways.

Every other state is in the distance behind the top three states becauses of the number of real d1 schools they have, how good those teams are and the amazing volume of d1 players they produce each year. The distance between third and four/fifth place is huge.

Look at the charts and population again. The states with amazing records are Alabama (23rd population), LA (25th population) and Mississippi (31st population). They produce a huge number of d1 players as a result of their population. Great players too. If you look at it in terms of population, it is the most impressive statistic in all of this. If Ohio could produce players at a rate of these much smaller states and with the same quality, the MAC wouldn't be as horrible as it is.

Coach Bowden is exactly correct. We can't let kids like Darian Hicks get away because there aren't that many kids around NE Ohio who can really make a difference. We can win the MAC without kids like him, but a lot has to go right in order to do so. Get kids like him and a great program is created. Those of you who want the Zips to be in a bigger conference down the road should understand that kids such as Mr. Hicks can't get away if you want to compete at higher levels.

I've said it for years. Ohio high school football is a shell of what it was 20 years ago. There is a lot of illusion in terms of referencing the number of d1 players created, but the reality and numbers show different.

[ZachTheZip]

Obviously that is the goal. But there is so much talent in NE Ohio, it's not a realistic goal.

Not at this point. But in a few years, shouldn't we be in that position?

[Zipgrad01]

Mayber there isn't as much "real" D-1A talent as we may think.

Our coach wrote this article when he was still writing.

I think when you look at it in terms of population and REAL D-1A schools, a different picture can be painted.

Ohio has eight d1 schools. Let's be honest. The MAC is a d1 conference in name only and it takes up six if the eight spots. Ohio really only has two d1 schools and only one BCS level school that will move up to the super division when it is finally created. UNCC is calling itself a d1 school now and it hasn't played a game EVER. The term d1 gets used too loosely and distorts the reality because there is no real barrier to entry. I understand people from Ohio like to believe it is an elite recruiting state, because "it just is". It's average in most ways.

Every other state is in the distance behind the top three states becauses of the number of real d1 schools they have, how good those teams are and the amazing volume of d1 players they produce each year. The distance between third and four/fifth place is huge.

Look at the charts and population again. The states with amazing records are Alabama (23rd population), LA (25th population) and Mississippi (31st population). They produce a huge number of d1 players as a result of their population. Great players too. If you look at it in terms of population, it is the most impressive statistic in all of this. If Ohio could produce players at a rate of these much smaller states and with the same quality, the MAC wouldn't be as horrible as it is.

Coach Bowden is exactly correct. We can't let kids like Darian Hicks get away because there aren't that many kids around NE Ohio who can really make a difference. We can win the MAC without kids like him, but a lot has to go right in order to do so. Get kids like him and a great program is created. Those of you who want the Zips to be in a bigger conference down the road should understand that kids such as Mr. Hicks can't get away if you want to compete at higher levels.

I've said it for years. Ohio high school football is a shell of what it was 20 years ago. There is a lot of illusion in terms of referencing the number of d1 players created, but the reality and numbers show different.

That is a crock of BS....Ohio is by far the biggest contributor of Big Ten talent. Every Big Ten team recruits Ohio at the top of their list. Ohio is a top 5 state for producing NFL players.

Ohio also dominates the smaller college divisions because of the overall talent and quality of coaching etc, that exists here.

[LZIp]

Not at this point. But in a few years, shouldn't we be in that position?

It should be IMPROVED. But I dont see how we can be in that position unless our program is the level of Ohio State. OSU is the flagship university of Ohio and they cannot even get all of the elite talent. There have been very many elite players from Ohio (NE Ohio as well) who have chosen schools like UM, MSU, ND, etc over OSU. The state of Ohio isn't just a competition between OSU and the MAC schools, its a national competition.

That is a crock of BS....Ohio is by far the biggest contributor of Big Ten talent. Every Big Ten team recruits Ohio at the top of their list. Ohio is a top 5 state for producing NFL players.

Ohio also dominates the smaller college divisions because of the overall talent and quality of coaching etc, that exists here.

Agreed. I dont think GP1 realizes that Ohio is highly recruited nationally.They may not be top 5 per capita, but they are top 5 number wise. That is still pretty damn impressive. Like I said above, it's not just a race between OSU, Cinci, and the MAC schools.

A more realistic goal, IMO, would be to steal a few recruits a season that have offers to B1G schools, maybe even one or two from OSU or another elite school. As well as being the the #1 option in the MAC for kids to choose.

[Dr Z]

I dont think GP1 realizes that Ohio is highly recruited nationally. They may not be top 5 per capita, but they are top 5 number wise.

2011 Numbers

Texas is king in total number of players - though it just edges out Florida (345 to 344). California (253), Georgia (170) and Ohio (144) are the only other states with more than 100 signees.

NFL Talent...isn't to say warm weather is a prerequisite for producing top talent. Cities like Cincinnati (13), Detroit (13), Cleveland (10) and Pittsburgh (10) also produce Division I and professional talent at a high clip.

[GP1]

2011 Numbers

Texas is king in total number of players - though it just edges out Florida (345 to 344). California (253), Georgia (170) and Ohio (144) are the only other states with more than 100 signees.

NFL Talent...isn't to say warm weather is a prerequisite for producing top talent. Cities like Cincinnati (13), Detroit (13), Cleveland (10) and Pittsburgh (10) also produce Division I and professional talent at a high clip.

All I'm saying is when you factor in population and the number of horrible D-1 teams (6 of 8), Ohio may be towards the top of the list, but it isn't that impressive.

Don't look at the numbers (the numbers are the illusion in this case). Trust your eyes. When you watch the MAC, are you seeing high level talent or are you seeing a D1A conference in name only? When you watch the Big Ten, are you seeing high level BCS talent, or are you seeing a conference that is at best the fourth best BCS conference? If Ohio HS football was that good, OSU wouldn't have the talent problem they experienced last season and Urban M. wouldn't publically state they have a talent problem. He's absolutely correct in saying it by the way. Georgia is another good example. Georgia produces a lot of kids that look good in a uniform and most of the time fall short on the field. They are soft compared to the kids from Alabama, LA and MS. It's not the number, but the quality....just ask Alabama. It's not the number of stars they put by your name when you are being recruited in HS, it is how you do once you get to college that matters. Ohio produces numbers because there are 6 D1a schools that aren't that good, but have 85 scholarships available for someone wanting to play college football (that's 510 scholarship players), but not much in the "difference maker" category.

The main point I was trying to make is Coach Bowden is correct in saying we need to keep kids like Darian Hicks. By itself, NE Ohio doesn't produce enough great players to make us an elite MAC school. When one comes along, we need to keep him around for the Zips if he passes on OSU. If we don't keep kids like him, it becomes harder to be an elite school (doesn't mean we can't be good though) and even harder to maybe play in a better conference down the road. Elite players are not easy to get. Coach B didn't come here to be good, he came here to be great and his philosophy is designed around that idea. He's probably pretty mad this kid didn't come to Akron.

In terms of the NFL analogy, I'm on ly looking at college football. Those numbers are interesting and the make good high school debate club points, but the number of NFL players is incredibly small compared to the number of ncaa players.

[GP1]

I dont think GP1 realizes that Ohio is highly recruited nationally.

Did you read my post?

[LZIp]

Did the MAC not win the Bowl Challenge Cup or whatever it is last season?

Also, OSU doesn't have a talent problem man. Last year they had a ton of problems. This year, yes they do lack Urban's "type" of talent. Remember they are installing a completely new system that requires different types of players.

Let us also not forget the Urban has also said publicly that there is great talent in Ohio

[GP1]

Did the MAC not win the Bowl Challenge Cup or whatever it is last season?

Let us also not forget the Urban has also said publicly that there is great talent in Ohio

They did win the Bowl Challenge Cup...and didn't beat a single BCS team in the process. Be careful to use exhibition games as evidence of a conference being good. On another note, if the bowls have more meaning, further evidence is created that we should have our own division. If we are good enough to compete against the MWC and WAC in bowls, we could be good enough to win a national championship in a division we can realistically compete. In the mean time, we'll continue to follow Captain Smith's orders.

Is there great talent in Ohio? Yes. To me, "great talent" could mean two players or twenty players. Be careful how you listen to people.

[wadszip]

They did win the Bowl Challenge Cup...and didn't beat a single BCS team in the process. Be careful to use exhibition games as evidence of a conference being good. On another note, if the bowls have more meaning, further evidence is created that we should have our own division. If we are good enough to compete against the MWC and WAC in bowls, we could be good enough to win a national championship in a division we can realistically compete. In the mean time, we'll continue to follow Captain Smith's orders.

Is there great talent in Ohio? Yes. To me, "great talent" could mean two players or twenty players. Be careful how you listen to people.

What about 8 players in the top 87 of the 2012 NFL Draft? That's what Ohio produced ... and only two went to Ohio State, so it's not like the Buckeyes are the only team that benefits from the instate talent. In fact, I looked up the numbers a while back of every Ohio H.S. football player either drafted (or carved out an NFL career as a free agent) from 2005-12. There were 106 players from Ohio (an average of 13 per year), and only 34 of them (32 percent) went to Ohio State (and one was a walk-on from the rugby team). There is a lot of talent in Ohio ... No. 4 overall in that period behind the big 3 of Texas, California and Florida. And there isn't just one school that benefits from that talent.

I also broke it down by area's in Ohio:

By Region:

1. Northeast - 54

2. Southwest - 29

3. Central - 16

4. Northwest - 6

5. Southeast - 1

By metro:

1. Cleveland- 28

2. Cincinnati - 16

3. Columbus- 15

3. Akron-Canton - 14 (7 Akron, 7 Canton)

5. Dayton- 12

6. Youngstown-Warren- 12 (9 Warren, 4 Youngstown)

7. Toledo- 3

By super-region:

1. Cleveland-Akron-Canton-Youngstown-Warren- 54

2. Cincinnati-Dayton - 28

3. Columbus - 17

* The Cleveland-Akron-Youngstown-Warren area has produced 51 percent of Ohio's NFL talent, while making up less than 40 percent of the state's population (for the per capita people). All of those cities are within 40 miles of Akron.

Here's the shocker ... I also did by school:

1. Ohio State - 34

2. Cincinnati - 13

3. Michigan State - 7

4. Akron - 5

4. Michigan - 5

Northwestern and Notre Dame are next with 3; Boston College, Ball State, Iowa, Indiana and Miami (Ohio) have 2; and a list of 20 or schools have 1 (including the likes of USC, Florida and Florida State).

What does all this mean?

1. Ohio is still a great football state.

2. Not all the talent ends up in Columbus

3. Akron is in close proximity to the majority of that talent.

4. Akron has had success in the past with turning that talent into NFL players.

5. If Terry Bowden can turn the program around, there is even more success to be had in the area.

6. One recruit (Darian Hicks) isn't going to make-or-break this program moving forward.

[wadszip]

It should be IMPROVED. But I dont see how we can be in that position unless our program is the level of Ohio State. OSU is the flagship university of Ohio and they cannot even get all of the elite talent. There have been very many elite players from Ohio (NE Ohio as well) who have chosen schools like UM, MSU, ND, etc over OSU. The state of Ohio isn't just a competition between OSU and the MAC schools, its a national competition.

Agreed. I dont think GP1 realizes that Ohio is highly recruited nationally.They may not be top 5 per capita, but they are top 5 number wise. That is still pretty damn impressive. Like I said above, it's not just a race between OSU, Cinci, and the MAC schools.

A more realistic goal, IMO, would be to steal a few recruits a season that have offers to B1G schools, maybe even one or two from OSU or another elite school. As well as being the the #1 option in the MAC for kids to choose.

I agree with this 100 percent. If Akron can do this, they are a top 25 program in most years. It's an uphill climb (especially not being in a major conference). But Cincinnati has done just that (albeit in the Big East), with less of a local talent base to draw from.

[GP1]

What does all this mean?

1. Ohio is still a great football state. Still debatable. Saying something is true doesn't make it so.

2. Not all the talent ends up in Columbus I didn't say it did.

3. Akron is in close proximity to the majority of that talent. Don't disagree there is talent near

4. Akron has had success in the past with turning that talent into NFL players. Not sure how this applies.

5. If Terry Bowden can turn the program around, there is even more success to be had in the area. True. He can't let kids like Hicks get away. It all starts with talent.

6. One recruit (Darian Hicks) isn't going to make-or-break this program moving forward. It has to start somewhere.

You're the Thomas Friedman of ZNO.

Article

[Spin]

If Terry Bowden can turn the program around, there is even more success to be had in the area.

He's already done what past coach(es) never did and is building relationships with high school coaches IN THIS AREA. High school coaches have said as much. He's already said he is going to recruit the area.

He's from the SEC, yet he knows about the talent in Ohio before coming here and that was one of the reasons he took the job.

[GP1]

He's already done what past coach(es) never did and is building relationships with high school coaches IN THIS AREA.

Lee Owens did the same thing. How did that work out for us? Terry Pluto thinks it worked out great. The Great GP1 thinks it worked out horribly and can use as evidence the empty trophy case he left behind.

[LZIp]

Lee Owens did the same thing. How did that work out for us? Terry Pluto thinks it worked out great. The Great GP1 thinks it worked out horribly and can use as evidence the empty trophy case he left behind.

Are you implying TB doesn't know what he is doing?

[wadszip]

You're the Thomas Friedman of ZNO.

Article

Ouch... you hurt me on that one. Thanks for the link, though. I now know who Thomas Friedman is. Since, you want to go that route, you are the Skip Bayless of this board. You throw off-the-wall posts then believe them as gospel even if actual data doesn't back you up, just because you believe something to be true.

At least, I take the time to put in some research before I spout off on something. And in this case, it shows that Ohio is still a top-four (or five ... you can split hairs with Georgia) overall football state ... and Akron (which is the school we all care about, sits right in the middle of a majority of that talent). How have you disputed that other than saying "still debatable" or "too me great players can be two or 20" ... what is it? You linked an article about somebody who is accused of throwing out generalities, when you have been the most blatant poster doing just that. What qualifies as a great football state? Again, speaking of generalities, you posted this:

"Georgia is another good example. Georgia produces a lot of kids that look good in a uniform and most of the time fall short on the field. They are soft compared to the kids from Alabama, LA and MS. It's not the number, but the quality....just ask Alabama."

OK, I "hypothetically" asked Alabama. They told me they have 13 Georgia kids on their roster. (They also told me they had three from Ohio, btw). I guess Georgia is too "soft" though, even though it is by a wide margin the out-of-state area they recruit most.

Maybe you are referring to not the University of Alabama, but the state in general. I also asked Auburn what they thought of Georgia players. They said, they also have 13 ... and like at Alabama, that number represents the most out-of- state players there.

Amazing that great tough-nosed state of Alabama relies so much on those "soft" Georgia kids. But yeah, they only look good in uniform ... that's why they are only getting drafted at the No. 5 overall amount (behind Ohio, mind you .... another state you tend to believe is overrated, despite the numbers showing otherwise).

The only argument you have is "per capita" ... If that was the case, Iowa is a better football state than Ohio. You wanna go that far?

[wadszip]

Lee Owens did the same thing. How did that work out for us? Terry Pluto thinks it worked out great. The Great GP1 thinks it worked out horribly and can use as evidence the empty trophy case he left behind.

The Great GP1 also fails to mention that Akron has had 6 winning seasons as a D1-A program in its history, and three of those were under Lee Owens. The Great GP1 also fails to mention that two more of those winning seasons were in Brookhart's first and second years ... when upwards of 80 percent of those players were Lee Owens recruits. The Great GP1 also fails to mention that Lee Owens was the person who kept the indoor practice facility/stadium on the front-burner for the university. But yeah, Lee Owens didn't do anything but leave an empty trophy case.

[johnnyzip84]

The Great GP1 also fails to mention that Akron has had 6 winning seasons as a D1-A program in its history, and three of those were under Lee Owens. The Great GP1 also fails to mention that two more of those winning seasons were in Brookhart's first and second years ... when upwards of 80 percent of those players were Lee Owens recruits. The Great GP1 also fails to mention that Lee Owens was the person who kept the indoor practice facility/stadium on the front-burner for the university. But yeah, Lee Owens didn't do anything but leave an empty trophy case.

It's actually seven, but who's counting? Oh wait, I guess I was

[Hilltopper]

Ouch... you hurt me on that one. Thanks for the link, though. I now know who Thomas Friedman is. Since, you want to go that route, you are the Skip Bayless of this board. You throw off-the-wall posts then believe them as gospel even if actual data doesn't back you up, just because you believe something to be true.

At least, I take the time to put in some research before I spout off on something. And in this case, it shows that Ohio is still a top-four (or five ... you can split hairs with Georgia) overall football state ... and Akron (which is the school we all care about, sits right in the middle of a majority of that talent). How have you disputed that other than saying "still debatable" or "too me great players can be two or 20" ... what is it? You linked an article about somebody who is accused of throwing out generalities, when you have been the most blatant poster doing just that. What qualifies as a great football state? Again, speaking of generalities, you posted this:

"Georgia is another good example. Georgia produces a lot of kids that look good in a uniform and most of the time fall short on the field. They are soft compared to the kids from Alabama, LA and MS. It's not the number, but the quality....just ask Alabama."

OK, I "hypothetically" asked Alabama. They told me they have 13 Georgia kids on their roster. (They also told me they had three from Ohio, btw). I guess Georgia is too "soft" though, even though it is by a wide margin the out-of-state area they recruit most.

Maybe you are referring to not the University of Alabama, but the state in general. I also asked Auburn what they thought of Georgia players. They said, they also have 13 ... and like at Alabama, that number represents the most out-of- state players there.

Amazing that great tough-nosed state of Alabama relies so much on those "soft" Georgia kids. But yeah, they only look good in uniform ... that's why they are only getting drafted at the No. 5 overall amount (behind Ohio, mind you .... another state you tend to believe is overrated, despite the numbers showing otherwise).

The only argument you have is "per capita" ... If that was the case, Iowa is a better football state than Ohio. You wanna go that far?

I really hate it when people spam the forum with the facts.

[wadszip]

It's actually seven, but who's counting? Oh wait, I guess I was

Fair enough. I guess I should've said as a full-time member of the MAC.

[johnnyzip84]

Fair enough. I guess I should've said as a full-time member of the MAC.

There have been so few that I just couldn't allow even one to go unnoticed! Here's to hoping 2013 might be the next

[g-mann17]

The Great GP1 also fails to mention that Akron has had 6 winning seasons as a D1-A program in its history, and three of those were under Lee Owens. The Great GP1 also fails to mention that two more of those winning seasons were in Brookhart's first and second years ... when upwards of 80 percent of those players were Lee Owens recruits. The Great GP1 also fails to mention that Lee Owens was the person who kept the indoor practice facility/stadium on the front-burner for the university. But yeah, Lee Owens didn't do anything but leave an empty trophy case.

Only playing devil's advocate here...

6 winning season, 3 under Owens (7 total)... Owens didn't get to a bowl, didn't get to a championship game, and those winning seasons in D1/FBS go count how many wins are against D1A/FCS schools.

I think GP1's point stands.

[GP1]

Are you implying TB doesn't know what he is doing?

No. I'm stating his idea that we can't let NE Ohio kids who don't go to OSU land at another school is absolutely the correct idea because if we want to be an elite MAC school for many years, they can't get away. So in reality, I'm saying TB knows exactly what he needs to do to be successful.