Odd Man Out

[Z.I.P.]

i don't know about this. Chaminade was at least playing college players. The 1980 olympic team was playing a team of professional ALL-STARS. They just beat the NHL All-Stars 6-0 before the olympics. They won gold in 64, 68, 72, 76, 84, 88...9 straight world championships from 63-72. 42 straight wins heading into a game against a group of college kids, who have been playing together for just a few months, compared to 10 years for some of the USSR guys. They even went on a 4 year winning streak after the loss too.

Only one (1) thing wrong with your theory Z5. The Soviet players may have been AS GOOD as Western professional hockey players, but they were paid like mere pawn/subjects of the Soviet state. That was the case with amateur athletes in Communist bloc nations for decades. So, while you may argue their amateur status was nominal or technical at best, it did in fact meet the standards of international amateur competition. I remember the times very well. The criticism from within the USA was mostly from people who wanted US amateur athletes to be able to compete with foreign (including Western European and other) amateurs who were subsidized by their governments, but were mostly opposed to the USA subsidizing our athletes in the same manner. Then along came the defiler of amateurism and international competition, Juan Antonio Samaranch to install a for-profit Olympic movement and an end to true amateurism in international athletics. He and that movement are the reason why I haven't paid attention to most Olympic competitions since the 1970s. There are a few events in teh Winter Olympics I still enjoy, but they too have been professionalized/bastardized for the most part.

[Z.I.P.]

Well said.

I LOVED the miracle on ice, and it has great importance to me personally. But, that hockey team still consisted of top-notch college hockey players. Those kids from Chaminade were nobodys.

In about 45 minutes the Nobody Silverswords play the North Carolina Tar Heels for third place. Good luck to Mike Green and his teammates. I'm lookiing for DeAndre Haskins to be on the All-Tournament Team in any case. He can flat out play.

[zippy5]

Only one (1) thing wrong with your theory Z5. The Soviet players may have been AS GOOD as Western professional hockey players, but they were paid like mere pawn/subjects of the Soviet state. That was the case with amateur athletes in Communist bloc nations for decades. So, while you may argue their amateur status was nominal or technical at best, it did in fact meet the standards of international amateur competition. I remember the times very well. The criticism from within the USA was mostly from people who wanted US amateur athletes to be able to compete with foreign (including Western European and other) amateurs who were subsidized by their governments, but were mostly opposed to the USA subsidizing our athletes in the same manner. Then along came the defiler of amateurism and international competition, Juan Antonio Samaranch to install a for-profit Olympic movement and an end to true amateurism in international athletics. He and that movement are the reason why I haven't paid attention to most Olympic competitions since the 1970s. There are a few events in teh Winter Olympics I still enjoy, but they too have been professionalized/bastardized for the most part.

Eh the league they were in went 6-3-1 in interleague games vs US NHL Teams that year (or maybe 1979). Whatever you want to call them, they were the best team in the world. The best players, from the best league.

[akzipper]

To me the importance of the Miracle on Ice made it more significant. Olympics on the world stage against a world powerhouse outweighs some small tournament in Hawaii. Especially given the relationships between the USA and Soviets, support of the team at the time and since made it more of an American victory. Bigger than sports. I'll admit I never actually knew about the Chaminade upset until someone mentioned it here.

[skip-zip]

In about 45 minutes the Nobody Silverswords play the North Carolina Tar Heels for third place. Good luck to Mike Green and his teammates. I'm lookiing for DeAndre Haskins to be on the All-Tournament Team in any case. He can flat out play.

Emphasis on my use of the word WERE. They were an NAIA school back then who played at a local high school because of lack of facilities. They are far more capable now of being able to pull off an upset like that, relatively speaking.

For today's comparison, think of Wilberforce (a small NAIA school down in SW Ohio) beating North Carolina.

Enjoy the game. I'm sure it's great for you to see a former Zip playing out there.

[RootforRoo44]

To me the importance of the Miracle on Ice made it more significant. Olympics on the world stage against a world powerhouse outweighs some small tournament in Hawaii. Especially given the relationships between the USA and Soviets, support of the team at the time and since made it more of an American victory. Bigger than sports. I'll admit I never actually knew about the Chaminade upset until someone mentioned it here.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the Miracle on Ice is not more important. The argument is just whether it was more impressive of an upset.

And wow, did this thread get off track or what :-)

Egner > Green > Chaminade > Miracle on Ice

[Z.I.P.]

Emphasis on my use of the word WERE. They were an NAIA school back then who played at a local high school because of lack of facilities. They are far more capable now of being able to pull off an upset like that, relatively speaking.

For today's comparison, think of Wilberforce (a small NAIA school down in SW Ohio) beating North Carolina.

Enjoy the game. I'm sure it's great for you to see a former Zip playing out there.

I hate to be drawn into responding to relatively irrelevent facts..but I just wanted to point out, Chaminade STILL plays in a high school gymnasium. CUH shares their campus with St Louis High School and they share all their facilities. The school is barely able to maintain an athletic program, and until an angel charity recently fell into their lap, they received the majority of their athletic budget from that basketball tournament on Maui.

[skip-zip]

I hate to be drawn into responding to relatively irrelevent facts..but I just wanted to point out, Chaminade STILL plays in a high school gymnasium. CUH shares their campus with St Louis High School and they share all their facilities. The school is barely able to maintain an athletic program, and until an angel charity recently fell into their lap, they received the majority of their athletic budget from that basketball tournament on Maui.

Thanks for the info., but I think most anyone would consider Chaminade's escalation from an NAIA school to a member of NCAA Div. II as a pretty significant different in how they stand compared to an NCAA D-1 school, and just how much more inferior they would have been 30 years ago. They've even quadrupled their enrollment since that time.

If there was ever a true "It will never happen again" in sport, this would be it.

[akronzips71]

I must have wandered into the wrong place. I thought this was the Akron Zips basketball forum. Sorry to intrude on the hockey discussion.

[zippyfan34]

Josh finally made it official he is going to Walsh to reunite with Dupont from his Jackson days.

[WinZip]

Josh finally made it official he is going to Walsh to reunite with Dupont from his Jackson days.

Always liked him. He never really had a chance at Akron for whatever reason. Hope he does well.

[Dave in Green]

A few short years ago, Josh would have been good enough to earn at least a minor sub role and stick with the Zips. But by 2010, when Egner (and Euton and Green) signed up to play for the Zips, Coach Dambrot was in the process of upgrading the level of player who could qualify for the team, and a potential logjam was developing at the forward/wing position:

In 2010, Q transferred to UA and was able to play immediately due to UNO ending its D1 program. In 2010, Chauncey also transferred to UA and sat out the season in anticipation of playing the next year. In 2010, Treadwell and Harney were signing up to take classes and try to earn the grades required to play basketball. There was no guarantee that Tree and Nick would qualify. When they did, they moved to the front of the talent line for forwards along with the experienced and proven Q and Chauncey.

The final blows came this year with the emergence of a far more capable Jake Kretzer than anyone expected of a true freshman, and the transfer of the talented Pat Forsythe, taking away any minutes Josh might have gotten at backup center. The good news about the Zips attracting an ever higher caliber of player has resulted in bad news for those who could not compete at that higher level. All of those who have left the program, or who might leave in the near future, are good kids who just couldn't quite make the cut on a Zips team that is more loaded with talent than at any other time in the team's D1 era.

[Quickzips]

Dave pretty well hits the nail on the head. The level of talent on this team is higher than at any point under KD. 5 years ago a guy like Egner would have at least been relied upon for 15 minutes a night off the bench. Today he isn't even going to sniff the rotation. I liked Josh, and wish him the best of luck, but Tree, Harney, Pat F., etc. are simply at another level in terms of physical abilities and basketball talent.

I really have to wonder how many of those bigs from KD's past would have seen significant minutes on this years squad. Is Nik Cvetinovic a starter in Tree's second year? How many minutes do the McKnight brothers get on this years squad? Do Romeo and Wood see some of their playing time decreased? Does Mike Bardo ever get on the court? Matt Futch? Rob Preston? Seriously, this is probably the best group of bigs, top to bottom, that the MAC has seen in a decade.

[Big Zip]

http://www.cantonrep.com/newsnow/x65623640...ansfer-to-Walsh