Poor STUDENT support....

[LZIp]

Went to tennis today! Good win for the ladies.

for sure. Im not advocating reevaluating any sports by the way. Just was baffled that somebody would say having basketball as a sport needs to be reevaluated.

[zen]

Thanks for letting me know not to take your posts seriously.

Yes, this is internet is serious business! I know your type.

My actual point was not that specific. I cited one factor. If you read the quotation you put in your post, I said that "there are other factors far more comparatively relevant here" than what else can be done at the same time as the basketball game. Because you have a differing opinion, you happened to know one statistic that could refute an example of another "factor" and you went straight at it. This is when I know the discussion is not worth it and we are both just going to be defensive. In fact, rather than just let me go when I said "you win", you even had to chide back with the above quote. Thank you for your gentlemenly discussion. I'd rather go talk about something that isn't very serious internet business to Dave in Green so that someone might actually read my posts for the actual concepts I am communicating instead of disecting them into refutable bullet points.

I always find it interesting how serious people get about discussions like this. It's so important to them that they don their armor and go to war, as if all of mortal existence hangs in the balance. The funny things about discussions and even debates is, almost everyone has already picked a side and wont be budged. I came here to talk and contribute my opinion because I didn't realize it was going to be a debate and a battle. You can have it. I'm not interested.

[UAZip0510]

I'll keep it real here...at one point, the student sections started filling up, toward the end of the Travis/Joyce Era. At this time, the AK-Rowdies tried to become exclusive. You were supposed to come to meetings to practice chants and wear the AK-Rowdies shirt to all games, and if you didn't do both you weren't permitted to sit down low. I witnessed Zips students turned away in favor of empty seats because they didn't have the Rowdies shirt on. Most students responded by saying screw it and just sat GA or, even worse, just stopped coming. After some embarrassing attendance showings, the Rowdies' leadership tried stepping back and permitted any UA student to sit down low. The problem was most of the students previously shunned didn't come back.

Problem #2 will probably get me ripped but, again, I'm being brutally honest. The AK-Rowdies are not a "cool" group. It's a motley crew led by many who aren't even undergraduates anymore and are in their mid-to-late 20's. Like it or not, college kids care about the perception of groups they are associated with (think fraternities/sororities) and the AK-Rowdies are not considered cool.

Problem #3 is the seats down low suck. Terrible view and too few on each side.

Here's my solution - for basketball, eliminate the AK-Rowdies. They are passionate fans, but it's just not working. Take section D or E and name it "Zips Zone", "Zips Nation", "The Pouch", or something referring to the section, not the group. This eliminates the notion that it is anything other than a place for ALL UA students, regardless of what shirt they are wearing. Entice students to sit there by offering a voucher for a free meal (pizza, hot dog, or burger and a pop). Offer discounts on other items as well. Have the cheerleaders interact with the student section more than ever before. More will listen to directives from an attractive 19 year old girl than a 26 year old male graduate student. Put them right behind the visitor's bench and see what happens. Put the band on one lower end, the dance team and prospective recruits on the other. It's time to get creative.

[Dr Z]

Well thought out. Maybe you should share your thoughts.

I always thought "The Pouch" was a no-brainer. Didn't it used to be?

[akzipper]

Problem #2 will probably get me ripped but, again, I'm being brutally honest. The AK-Rowdies are not a "cool" group. It's a motley crew led by many who aren't even undergraduates anymore and are in their mid-to-late 20's. Like it or not, college kids care about the perception of groups they are associated with (think fraternities/sororities) and the AK-Rowdies are not considered cool.

This was exactly the problem when I was in school. Sat with the Rowdies for one basketball game as a freshman, and decided after that I would never again.

We have the best student section in the MAC, but it has a lot of room for improvement

[Dave in Green]

@zen, your original post was a pretty aggressive challenge, i.e. "sounds like throwing darts at the wall and making excuses now." I thought my response was pretty civil, ending with "No one believes that's (rural or urban location) the only attendance factor." You agreed, saying "I just believe that there are other factors far more comparatively relevant here." You used OU's NCAA tournament run as an example of another factor, and I again in a civil way said that all you had to do to prove your point was provide attendance numbers before and after the tournament run to show it. Your response to that was pretty flip. How do you expect people to react to something like that?

Anyway, since you and I are in agreement that cow tipping is not the only available entertainment activity in Athens and that there are many variables that affect average home attendance, let's go beyond your reality and my reality to attendance reality for anyone reading this who might have an interest in actual numbers:

OU AVERAGE HOME ATTENDANCE

6,050 = 2012-2013 season to date after NCAA tournament sweet 16 run (average likely to go up as conference games draw larger crowds)

6,177 = 2011-2012 season after 19-16 overall record

5,599 = 2010-2011 season after upsetting Georgetown in NCAA tournament

5,289 = 2009-2010 season after 15-17 overall record

5,016 = 2008-2009 season after 20-13 overall record and 1st round NIT tournament win over Brown and 2nd round loss to Bradley

5,135 = 2007-2008 season after 19-13 overall record

4,502 = 2006-2007 season after 19-11 overall record

4,738 = 2005-2006 season after 21-11 overall record and 1st round NCAA tournament loss to Florida

4,397 = 2004-2005 season after 10-20 overall record

4,514 = 2003-2004 season after 14-16 overall record

6,175 = 2002-2003 season after 17-11 overall record

7,474 = 2001-2002 season after 19-11 overall record

So, there you go -- a general trend down in attendance following losing seasons and a general trend up after winning seasons, but not always a significant apparent direct correlation. There are too many other variables to analyze this in greater detail. But the numbers generally tend to support the position that team performance one season affects home attendance the next. But we already knew that.

[MDZip]

uhh if we are complaining about basketball. why not bring up tennis and rifle? Where virtually 0% of the student population is "being served"

I think some of you may have missed my point, I only brought up basketball because we were discussing it (football is even more of a money drain), my original point was that university sports seem to be cited as a draw and as quality of life factor for students. It's completely subjective to how those things affect student life but what is not is how much is taken out of student fees to support those activities when again it might serve 5% of the student population for millions of dollars, whereas club activities serve a much smaller segment of the population for a miniscule amount. All sports drain the budget, some much more than others. My comment was aimed at all collegiate athletic activities, wondering what the real ROI is for the students who are all "investors" in those activities. That was what I meant about re-evaluation.

[akzipper]

Here's my solution - for basketball, eliminate the AK-Rowdies. They are passionate fans, but it's just not working. Take section D or E and name it "Zips Zone", "Zips Nation", "The Pouch", or something referring to the section, not the group. This eliminates the notion that it is anything other than a place for ALL UA students, regardless of what shirt they are wearing. Entice students to sit there by offering a voucher for a free meal (pizza, hot dog, or burger and a pop). Offer discounts on other items as well. Have the cheerleaders interact with the student section more than ever before. More will listen to directives from an attractive 19 year old girl than a 26 year old male graduate student. Put them right behind the visitor's bench and see what happens. Put the band on one lower end, the dance team and prospective recruits on the other. It's time to get creative.

I think the name "Roo Zoo" works best. It's already been used and anything else is way too generic. The Ak-rowdies could still exist while the student section as a whole would be the Roo Zoo.

[UAZip0510]

I think the name "Roo Zoo" works best. It's already been used and anything else is way too generic. The Ak-rowdies could still exist while the student section as a whole would be the Roo Zoo.

After some more thought, I do agree that eliminating the AK-Rowdies completely might be a mistake. I just think we need to eliminate the notion that sitting in the student section makes you an AK-Rowdy, or that you need to be an AK-Rowdy to sit there.

[jem101]

You don't have to be a member of the ROWDIES to sit down low this year. Just have to be a student.

[LZIp]

You don't have to be a member of the ROWDIES to sit down low this year. Just have to be a student.

Can you just walk down there? When going to a game this year, I asked about the wrist band, and they said they arent giving them out anymore.

[zipdiehard]

I've seen several posts using the total number of students compared to how many attend games, but I haven't seen a comparison of "living on campus" vs attendence. I have to believe that a school like OU has pretty much their entire student body living on campus, while we have probably 1/4 of ours on campus.

My point is that if you have 20,000 on campus you statiscally have a better chance of 1000 of them showing up for a game than a school with 4,000. I'm talking MAC level schools, not the Duke's and Kentucky's of the world where attending is an event on its own. I have been going to Zips BB games for 30 years and have seen an apparent student attendance rise at the same time they have increased dorms and on campus living.

[plowerman78]

during break they werent doing wristbands, but facilities requested them to do wristbands now. Again just like last year any Akron student can go down on the floor.

[Dave in Green]

@zipdiehard, you make a good point about the number of students actually living on campus within walking distance of the school's basketball arena. The UA website says their "residence halls are home to more than 3,000 students." Using OU for comparison, their website says they have on-campus housing for "nearly 8,000 students." I'm not sure how many students live in off-campus residences close enough to be able to easily walk to the games. But I'd guess that schools like OU have an advantage over UA there, too.

[UAZip0510]

You don't have to be a member of the ROWDIES to sit down low this year. Just have to be a student.

As long as the association to the Rowdies is there, the students will stay away. Rebranding the student section is the only option.

[ZachTheZip]

As long as the association to the Rowdies is there, the students will stay away. Rebranding the student section is the only option.

The section has been mostly full all year. They students are sitting down there, Rowdies or not.

What's your problem? You don't like how the Rowdies were five years ago, even though nobody from back the is still a part of the organization? The leaders you remember are all gone, either retired from the board or graduated.

[AKZ]

I would like to note that despite the fact that the MAC center is 20 minutes from campus, Akron was able to throw together a full student section that was louder than even the home crowd(at least, that's what they're saying on the Can't boards).

I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that the students were given a single, solidified section with a decent view of the game??? Hmm....

[AKZ]

Rowdy leadership shot itself in the foot a few years back, just as others have suggested.

The "big guy" and his cohorts worked to alienate a lot of people with their odd "in crowd" attitude. Going on road trips a couple years back there was always this sense of "either you are loud and obnoxious like the rest of us or you don't belong". This wasn't the case with everyone, but it seemed that many of the higher ups in the organization at the time took this mentality.

Look, we all wish that the JAR was full of students who really put their heart and soul into Akron athletics. The truth is, most of us were(are?) looking for something interesting to do with the small amount of spare time we had.

It's in the Rowdies interest to cater to the less interested student, and do the best that they can to avoid the "in crowd" vibe that I sensed 2-3 years back.

Just be welcoming and everything else will work itself out(Win, baby win!).

BTW...I think it was great that the BB team talked to students about going to the game. It seemed to bring a lot of new faces to the JAR. Hopefully they keep that up!

[UAZip0510]

The section has been mostly full all year. They students are sitting down there, Rowdies or not.

What's your problem? You don't like how the Rowdies were five years ago, even though nobody from back the is still a part of the organization? The leaders you remember are all gone, either retired from the board or graduated.

Just pointing out what others are too nice to say. Trust me, I hear it from my friends from other MAC schools all of the time. What I'm saying is far nicer than what they do.

[RootforRoo44]

As long as the association to the Rowdies is there, the students will stay away. Rebranding the student section is the only option.

While i agree that many students stay away from the student section because of some Rowdies...i think that rebranding is pointless. The only option is WINNING. Win and people will care. Stop choking in big games, get some decent assistant coaches that know what the hell they're doing, and FREAKING WIN.

[UAZip0510]

While i agree that many students stay away from the student section because of some Rowdies...i think that rebranding is pointless. The only option is WINNING. Win and people will care. Stop choking in big games, get some decent assistant coaches that know what the hell they're doing, and FREAKING WIN.

Akron actually has some pretty damn good assistants, especially in terms of recruiting.

[RootforRoo44]

Just pointing out what others are too nice to say. Trust me, I hear it from my friends from other MAC schools all of the time. What I'm saying is far nicer than what they do.

I'm a little confused. Your friends from other MAC schools don't like the Rowdies?

THAT'S THE POINT!!

[UAZip0510]

I'm a little confused. Your friends from other MAC schools don't like the Rowdies?

THAT'S THE POINT!!

It's not that they don't like them because of their impact on a game...I'll leave it at that.

[ZachTheZip]

Just pointing out what others are too nice to say. Trust me, I hear it from my friends from other MAC schools all of the time. What I'm saying is far nicer than what they do.

You're going to take the word of people who naturally dislike the Akron student section under any circumstance over actually going down there yourself for a game to see how things are? Fine. Be miserable in your self-imposed exile.

The AK-Rowdies are just people. Students from a bunch of different majors and walks of life who all enjoy watching sports and cheering for their fellow students to succeed in those sports.

[ZachTheZip]

It's not that they don't like them because of their impact on a game...I'll leave it at that.

No, it's because they show up to road games and put the other student sections to shame, all while being better behaved. I've been on road trips where not a single Rowdie uttered a curse out loud, but the home students pissed on the door to our bus as we were leaving the arena. The Rowdies have been insulted and called every word you could think of, and taking it with a smile and courtesy.

The AK-Rowdies are freaking tame. They can't do a damn thing without half a dozen university departments breathing down their necks, but Can't prints "Screw the Roo" shirts for their students and lets them chant "bullshit" on national TV, Ohio lets the OZone do whatever the hell they want with no recourse, Penn State students break into our lockerroom to steal the uniforms, Ohio State is worse than all of that.

You have no idea what you're talking about.