FBS/FCS Debate

[K92]

When Bowden stops making rookie mistakes (eating his own clock, calling TO when the other team can't call an audible) I'll get excited about the current staff.

Nobody calls a perfect game. If you watch much football, those "rookie mistakes" happen all the time. Did you happen to watch the SEC Championship Game? Nick Saban, widely regarded as the best college coach, made one of those type mistakes as the 2nd quarter clock ran down. It is frustrating to watch yes, but quite common. Lots of times the talent on the field can bail a coach out on "bad calls" by making an athletic play. The Zips didn't bail Coach Bowden out much.

The Zips have never had to fill a vacancy because the head coach moved on to greener pastures, bigger programs and pay. Our coaches get replaced for poor performance and we start over again. Hopefully Coach Bowden changes that. When he turns this program around, I hope his age will keep him from getting big-money offers that are too good to refuse. But even if we lose Coach Bowden to a better offer some day, he will have done what no other Akron Coach has done...

Succeed.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

But you would be excited dropping down a division and playing Div II teams?

I would. I truly do not believe that UA can achieve and maintain success at the FBS level, even low FBS level. I also find that low level FBS is tough to watch because of its crappy, second-rate vibe. Lower level FBS looks a LOT like little programs trying to be big, without succeeding in any way that works, at least for my eyes. I feel like conferences like the MAC are trying to con me. We all know what big time football looks and feels like, and there is little resemblence between a MAC game, any MAC game, to what we all know to be big time football. Why continue to chase that paradigm?

I also believe that programs that are true to their nature give themselves the best chance to shine. The move to D1-AA (FCS) would allow UA to emerge from its funk and malaise and get away from the MAC. For anyone who has doubts about whether this program can succeed at the level they're at now, the logical move is to seek a different level of play. For anyone who has no doubt and is sure that this program wil succeed at the highest level of play, you have nothing but faith guiding you at this point.

For Dr Z would you be excited to be part of exciting football, winning some games?

[Spin]

But you would be excited dropping down a division and playing Div II teams?

I went to Chippewa High School in Doylestown. We were/are Division IV and that's where we belong. And yes it is very exciting playing against other Division IV schools. We have no business pretending to be Massillon or Moeller.

And if you asked Mogadore, neither would they.

[Spin]

Dropping to 1-AA would save far more than $750,000 in reduced operating costs, lower coaches' salaries, and fewer/no scholarships. But no, I'm not an advocate for dropping down. Staying just doesn't have all the benefits that most people think.

Anyone else notice the local D3 schools get more TV games than the Zips?

Part of the reason is Mount U always plays deep into the championship (hint hint), but even during the regular season I see BW and JC and other schools on the tube more often than the Zips.

[LZIp]

Anyone else notice the local D3 schools get more TV games than the Zips?

Part of the reason is Mount U always plays deep into the championship (hint hint), but even during the regular season I see BW and JC and other schools on the tube more often than the Zips.

Pretty sure everyone but 1 or 2 of Akron's games were AT LEAST on ESPN3. Probably another 2-3 on STO along with one on ESPNU. Try again.

[Spin]

Pretty sure everyone but 1 or 2 of Akron's games were AT LEAST on ESPN3. Probably another 2-3 on STO along with one on ESPNU. Try again.

I did say "TV", and a lot of internet suppliers don't carry ESPN3. I had to switch to get it.

What do you want to pick apart next?

[LZIp]

I did say "TV", and a lot of internet suppliers don't carry ESPN3. I had to switch to get it.

What do you want to pick apart next?

Even FBS bottom feeders get WAY more exposure than smaller regional colleges. You're wrong.

[zipsbandman]

You guys are out of your minds. MAC has one of the best seasons in a long time. Can't State......Yes, K.E.N.T State......was a game away from going to the flipping Orange Bowl. Their fans as a matter of fact used to sing the same tune (focus on basketball, 1-A is a lost cause, blah blah blah) Well NIU IS going to the Orange Bowl. I honestly never though I would see a MAC team going to a BCS bowl. This is a very big deal. No reason that could not have been us had we had the right people running the ship. And now we're talking as if 1-A football is now a lost cause? Did I miss something?

Maybe instead of this talk about downgrading our program, we should be talking about getting rid of this mediocre at best AD who put our program in this mess. Fans..........

[johnnyzip84]

Look at another conference with regional matchups the Northeast (Duquesne, Robert Morris) Akron would be a top three program.

This just goes to show how incredibly misinformed the Spin Doctor is. I've stated this before, but apparently you're too full of yourself to conduct an independent investigation. The Northeast Conference (football) is 1-AA/FCS in name only (i.e. non-scholarship). These schools were bumped to I-AA from Division 3 in football because of the Dayton Rule alone. Do some research before you expose yourself next time.

BTW, Akron was actually a brief member of the Northeast Conference (in all sports but football) before joining the MAC in 1992. You can look it up.

[lance99]

I went to Chippewa High School in Doylestown. We were/are Division IV and that's where we belong. And yes it is very exciting playing against other Division IV schools. We have no business pretending to be Massillon or Moeller.

And if you asked Mogadore, neither would they.

Now you know full well using Chippewa and Mogadore is a bad example. It would not make a difference if they moved up or down. Talent makes the difference(and yes I think Mogadore could run the table in the City Series).

I am still am trying to figure out why this debate has been going on for the last couple of weeks

[LZIp]

Now you know full well using Chippewa and Mogadore is a bad example. It would not make a difference if they moved up of down. Talent makes the difference(and yes I think Mogadore could run the table in the City Series).

I am still am trying to figure out why this debate has been going on for the last couple of weeks

Because some people are too used to losing. They want to take the easy way out. And I disagree that Mogadore would run the table in the City Series. Probably .500

[akzipper]

Ok like I've said the Browns have been bad since 99. I just watched them get blown out yet again. Why can't they just drop down to the Arena league? Just think of how good they would be playing against all those terrible teams.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

You guys are out of your minds. MAC has one of the best seasons in a long time. Can't State......Yes, K.E.N.T State......was a game away from going to the flipping Orange Bowl. Their fans as a matter of fact used to sing the same tune (focus on basketball, 1-A is a lost cause, blah blah blah) Well NIU IS going to the Orange Bowl. I honestly never though I would see a MAC team going to a BCS bowl. This is a very big deal. No reason that could not have been us had we had the right people running the ship. And now we're talking as if 1-A football is now a lost cause? Did I miss something?

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Did you miss the 25 years of failure at the D-1/FBS level? Do a Wikipedia search for Akron football and look at the records since 1987, when the program made the jump. Next, look at the record since 2006. Next, look at the record in the fabled 2005 season. Now, look at the recruiting picture. Are you aware of "name" recruits who are creating a "buzz" about coming to play for TB at Akron next year? How many top recruits does it take to produce better than one win per season?

Surely, being a "fan" doesn't preclude some measure of objectivity. I might retain a sliver of hope if we were hearing rumblings of atypical recruits being wooed by Bowden and Amato, but I follow the recruiting threads closely and I see nothing happening that would make one believe that there is a bumper crop of better-than-typical Akron recruits rolling our way. This is a ONE WIN TEAM, with TB at the helm for this last go-around. Unless they recruit a TON of winners, it'll be more of the same.

Let me add this to the mix. Many posters want to condemn (and some have set to ignore) those of us who believe that the best step, for this program to achieve better results, is a change in scenery. So, I ask you, who is the loser? The fan, who in the face of all of the facts and logic, essentially wishes to see the Zips stay mired in the same rut long term? I'm not going to call anyone here loser (well, I did call LZip loser before we agreed to drink a beer and chill) but for those who accuse me of wanting the Zips to lose, or of not being a "good" fan, I think you're not only wrong, but are ignoring ALL of the facts and history. You have nothing more than hope to cling to, a blind belief that somehow Terry Bowden will find a way to do what nobody else has been able to do.

[LZIp]

Did you miss the 25 years of failure at the D-1/FBS level? Do a Wikipedia search for Akron football and look at the records since 1987, when the program made the jump. Next, look at the record since 2006. Next, look at the record in the fabled 2005 season. Now, look at the recruiting picture. Are you aware of "name" recruits who are creating a "buzz" about coming to play for TB at Akron next year? How many top recruits does it take to produce better than one win per season?

Surely, being a "fan" doesn't preclude some measure of objectivity. I might retain a sliver of hope if we were hearing rumblings of atypical recruits being wooed by Bowden and Amato, but I follow the recruiting threads closely and I see nothing happening that would make one believe that there is a bumper crop of better-than-typical Akron recruits rolling our way. This is a ONE WIN TEAM, with TB at the helm for this last go-around. Unless they recruit a TON of winners, it'll be more of the same.

There have already been recruits who have said they only came to Akron because of our coaching staff. Do you expect our program to become MAC contenders overnight? There was major progress shown in all areas this season, but wins unfortunately. They will come as depth and talent increases. Remember, Bowden had ~3 weeks to throw any kind of misfit recruiting class together and he put together a class that showed some very nice potential, as well a backup FCS QB who cae in to be one of the top passers in the nation. I am very confident in TB & Co building a winning as well as entertaining product for our University. BTW, Troy Smith was only a 3 star QB. Dont put too much stock into the "caliber" of athletes our staff is bringing in. I trust them to judge talent as well as anybody in the country. Akron has had 4 stars before, only to have them be a bust. What is the point of getting big name recruits if they dont pan out?

"Rome wasnt built in a day" as they say. I think it is unfair to ask the staff to show anything more than steady improvement yearly. Also, with your big concern about having a good season and coaches bailing, well we are in a good situation with an older coach,where there is a great chance that we are his last stop. We don't have a young Darell Hazell on our sideline.

[Dr Z]

For Dr Z would you be excited to be part of exciting football, winning some games?

If it meant playing division II, no. That level is not entertaining to me.

[Spin]

If it meant playing division II, no. That level is not entertaining to me.

Do you really not know the difference between D1-AA and D@, or are you just acting ignorant?

[LZIp]

Do you really not know the difference between D1-AA and D@, or are you just acting ignorant?

never heard of D@, please enlighten me.

[Dave in Green]

Trying to keep up with this. Is there anyone besides SeeTeeZip and Spin who think it would be a good idea for the Zips to drop down from FBS to FCS right now?

[Dr Z]

No.

[Spin]

never heard of D@, please enlighten me.

D2

[Spin]

Trying to keep up with this. Is there anyone besides SeeTeeZip and Spin who think it would be a good idea for the Zips to drop down from FBS to FCS right now?

Right now.

Everyone else gave up trying to talk to you wanna-be elitists.

[Dave in Green]

@Spin, I'm as open-minded as anyone on this forum, and am far from elitist. I appreciate minority positions and have advocated my share. But there's a difference between a serious discussion and a sports forum cat fight. A serious discussion with good logic should cause at least a few people to consider a minority position. I've honestly looked at all the points being made about the pros and cons of UA dropping from FBS to FCS right now, and I just don't see a compelling case. I think that you and SeeTeeZip have tried awfully hard to gain some traction. But the logic just doesn't appear to be there.

Having said that, I do appreciate you two doing your best to stand up and try to make your case against overwhelming odds. The majority is not always right, and they lose points for telling you to just go away. No good Zips fan should go away from a Zips forum because other good Zips fans disagree with them. We may all see things a little differently. But that's a positive, not a negative.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Trying to keep up with this. Is there anyone besides SeeTeeZip and Spin who think it would be a good idea for the Zips to drop down from FBS to FCS right now?

Apparently not DIG, although nobody who has participated in the discussion, on the side of staying in the 25 year drought, has brought facts or logic to the discussion. It seems an article of faith that Akron should remain D-1, and that TB is guaranteed to turn the program into a consistent winner. There is zero information available to anyone to support such assertions, and in fact the available data contradict the notion that UA will ever succeed at the FBS level.

I truly do not understand why Zips fans get so butt hurt about the topic. It's not like anyone would advocate closing down the program. Lot 9 will still be there on Saturdays fellas, and we may actually WIN some games for once. What I'm trying to figure out is why the majority of fans are so married to LOSING FBS football. It defies logic.

I am starting to wonder whether many "die hard" Zips fans are...no, I don't want to go there. I'm thinking it though.

[K92]

Apparently not DIG, although nobody who has participated in the discussion, on the side of staying in the 25 year drought, has brought facts or logic to the discussion. It seems an article of faith that Akron should remain D-1, and that TB is guaranteed to turn the program into a consistent winner. There is zero information available to anyone to support such assertions, and in fact the available data contradict the notion that UA will ever succeed at the FBS level.

I truly do not understand why Zips fans get so butt hurt about the topic. It's not like anyone would advocate closing down the program. Lot 9 will still be there on Saturdays fellas, and we may actually WIN some games for once. What I'm trying to figure out is why the majority of fans are so married to LOSING FBS football. It defies logic.

I am starting to wonder whether many "die hard" Zips fans are...no, I don't want to go there. I'm thinking it though.

Say it.

[LZIp]

Apparently not DIG, although nobody who has participated in the discussion, on the side of staying in the 25 year drought, has brought facts or logic to the discussion. It seems an article of faith that Akron should remain D-1, and that TB is guaranteed to turn the program into a consistent winner. There is zero information available to anyone to support such assertions, and in fact the available data contradict the notion that UA will ever succeed at the FBS level.

I truly do not understand why Zips fans get so butt hurt about the topic. It's not like anyone would advocate closing down the program. Lot 9 will still be there on Saturdays fellas, and we may actually WIN some games for once. What I'm trying to figure out is why the majority of fans are so married to LOSING FBS football. It defies logic.

I am starting to wonder whether many "die hard" Zips fans are...no, I don't want to go there. I'm thinking it though.

Still waiting for my response, STZ.