A New Arena

[odhgibo]

The St. Louis arena (Chaifetz Arena) design is about perfect for college basketball, but pricey at $86.9 million in 2013 dollars. It's a wonderful Zips dream arena if UA could afford it.

Ouch! I hope that the quoted price includes all of the items bolded below, which came from the arena's website ([url="http://www.thechaifetzarena.com/about_us"]):

Chaifetz Arena opened in April 2008, after years of planning for an on-campus multipurpose facility that would be home to SLU men’s and women’s basketball and women’s volleyball, and could host a myriad of other events. Chaifetz Arena has 10,600 seats in a single concourse, and also has 14 suites and two party suites, as well as

a large club for dinners and parties

.

The Arena complex includes the Chaifetz Arena, a

two-court basketball-volleyball practice facility

, where the volleyball team will play its games. And on the far western end of the complex is

a new three-story office and support building for the athletic department

. It includes new locker rooms for all Division I athletic teams. Chaifetz Arena also contains a new

strength and conditioning area

and a

state-of-the art sports medicine facility

.

[GP1]

TD Arena - College of Charleston

Add 2,500 seats to this. 75% of those added seats in the lower level...25% in the upper level.

All seats, no benches. All assigned seating, no general admission. Make the upper level some sort of club level with pre-game meals, cocktails, couches, etc. Allow single game purchases for those games not sold out.

For those of you who were at Winthrop few years ago now you might remember, when you walk into the arena, you are at the top of the seating area...this would be the top of the lower bowl in my new Zips arena. You walk into suites at that level and down into the lower seating bowl like Winthrop.

The upper club level would be glazing so you could see out to the nice winter days of Akron in the winter and the gray, overcast days of summer. You could also see down into the concourse area as the unwashed masses enter the arena. The fans would enter the club level seating from the top of the balcony and walk down to their seats. Only one side would have food and drink. In order to allow late arriving fans to see the game while they walk to their seats, there would be a small walkway behind the last row of seats in the balcony. The side without the food and drinks would have the minimum required by code...fountain, restrooms and fire escape.

[ZachTheZip]

I really like Boise State's arena. It's basically a miniature Quicken Loans Arena. Seats 12.5k and would cost around $45m to build.

The Q has set the standard for what basketball arenas in the area should be like. I get that it's an NBA arena, but a scaled down version would work great. It is the place people have in mind when they want to watch big games in the MAC thanks to the MAC Tournament. A lot of regional college basketball fans have only ever seen an Akron game played there. We can capture that expectation.

[RootforRoo44]

Beer station with 10 taps right when you walk through the main entrance

+10000000000000000000!

[ksu sucks]

7,000-8,000 is probably the sweet spot.

[ZachTheZip]

7,000-8,000 is probably the sweet spot.

I think 12,000 is the sweet spot.

The issues with the larger arenas in the MAC is that they have an "open" feeling. Look up pictures of Ohio's arena or Ball State's. They have an airy feeling to them. Compare that to Boise's arena, which is larger, but feels more intimate. You can also hide the upper level for Boise's arena, and open it up for larger events.

[odhgibo]

I think 12,000 is the sweet spot.

The issues with the larger arenas in the MAC is that they have an "open" feeling. Look up pictures of Ohio's arena or Ball State's. They have an airy feeling to them. Compare that to Boise's arena, which is larger, but feels more intimate. You can also hide the upper level for Boise's arena, and open it up for larger events.

The architect's site (IDG) says that that Taco Bell Arena(!) seats 10,700 for basketball, which is essentially the same as SLU, which achieves that number w/o the additional levels.

Extra levels make an arena less open, but at a significant additional cost.

Still, I do like many things about the Boise State arena's layout.

[72 Roo]

Great discussions. I like the 7,000-8,000 minimum. I'd also like to suggest that our architect-in-waiting design future expansion in the arena. If were Prez I'd pay the extra cost to have an arena that can grow with us in the future. This idea would be different, maybe even unusual, but i believe it can be done with a creative enough design. A good architect could do it. Now get going!

[zipsfan33]

How about something almost double the size (6000 seats) of the Covelli Centre in Youngstown?

[Blue & Gold]

Great discussions. I like the 7,000-8,000 minimum. I'd also like to suggest that our architect-in-waiting design future expansion in the arena. If were Prez I'd pay the extra cost to have an arena that can grow with us in the future. This idea would be different, maybe even unusual, but i believe it can be done with a creative enough design. A good architect could do it. Now get going!

I'm no architect, but I believe the only way for an arena to be expandable is if/when you see an arena that doesn't look finished at one end, i.e., the big wall (e.g., Xavier's arena). They could knock out the wall & expand the seating around to make a complete bowl.

Here is another example. This is the seating diagram for the Van Andel Arena in Grand Rapids, MI.

Expanding arenas is much more difficult (costly) than expanding a baseball or football stadium.

[taxpayer]

8000 for capacity. St. Louis design with the following changes. No media table across from benches, steeper bowl than shown in St Louis photo's(think Maryland's student endzone seating); this produces a larger volume of seats closer to the floor. Floor/court should be significantly below street/ground level. Walk into the concourse and down to all seats. The private boxes and media accomodations would be up one level from the street entrances/concourse. No decks or tiers. If expansion is a possibility, then end zone decks/tiers similar to Pittsburgh's former hockey/bball facility (Civic Arena) could be planned for and built if sellouts become the norm. Has a study or survey been performed which indicates how many suites could be sold?

Interior design elements: huge Z at center court, TV quality floor lighting with very dim lighting of seats during game. State of the art, suspended "jumbo tron" for lack of a better description. Permanent chairback seating for all seats. Movable seating at floor level in order for court/floor expansion for practice and some concert type events.

Team facilities: State of the art locker, weight/conditioning and training rooms. A barebones practice gym. All basketball offices (volleyball?) as well as athletic administrative and study table offices. Depending on facilities location, inclusion of a cafeteria, banquet rooms, etc (like Xavier) could be designed in to help justify this project and to also provide additional student services. If built in a retail zone, a chain restaurant type venue would be a plus to assist in debt reduction. The exterior would match that of the new football facility and new dorms/private housing being built on and next to campus.

With the Zips impressive recruiting over the last couple of years, just imagine where KD could take the program with a new impressive facility.

[Dave in Green]

I was looking for the original seating capacity of the JAR before seatbacks were installed, and can't find the number anywhere. Does anyone have a source?

[Blue & Gold]

8000 for capacity. St. Louis design with the following changes. No media table across from benches, steeper bowl than shown in St Louis photo's(think Maryland's student endzone seating); this produces a larger volume of seats closer to the floor. Floor/court should be significantly below street/ground level. Walk into the concourse and down to all seats. The private boxes and media accomodations would be up one level from the street entrances/concourse. No decks or tiers. If expansion is a possibility, then end zone decks/tiers similar to Pittsburgh's former hockey/bball facility (Civic Arena) could be planned for and built if sellouts become the norm. Has a study or survey been performed which indicates how many suites could be sold?

Interior design elements: huge Z at center court, TV quality floor lighting with very dim lighting of seats during game. State of the art, suspended "jumbo tron" for lack of a better description. Permanent chairback seating for all seats. Movable seating at floor level in order for court/floor expansion for practice and some concert type events.

Team facilities: State of the art locker, weight/conditioning and training rooms. A barebones practice gym. All basketball offices (volleyball?) as well as athletic administrative and study table offices. Depending on facilities location, inclusion of a cafeteria, banquet rooms, etc (like Xavier) could be designed in to help justify this project and to also provide additional student services. If built in a retail zone, a chain restaurant type venue would be a plus to assist in debt reduction. The exterior would match that of the new football facility and new dorms/private housing being built on and next to campus.

With the Zips impressive recruiting over the last couple of years, just imagine where KD could take the program with a new impressive facility.

I like your ideas, but for ^^^ "no decks or tiers."

I think different levels give an arena more of a "big time" feel, even if the seating capacity isn't like an NBA 20,000-seat facility.

The decks/tiers/levels (lower bowl, loges, upper bowl) keep the arena from looking like a glorified/over-sized high school gym.

[BirdZip]

Put huge Zippy heads on the corners of the jumbotron (or, maybe better yet, the streamlined mean-looking kangaroo head) and have them spray fire out of the nostrils at pivotal points in the game. Same as the Q with the swords (you can feel the heat when they do). Actually, I thought I heard somewhere where the Cavs owner wants a new jumbotron...

[ZachTheZip]

I'm no architect, but I believe the only way for an arena to be expandable is if/when you see an arena that doesn't look finished at one end, i.e., the big wall (e.g., Xavier's arena). They could knock out the wall & expand the seating around to make a complete bowl.

Here is another example. This is the seating diagram for the Van Andel Arena in Grand Rapids, MI.

Expanding arenas is much more difficult (costly) than expanding a baseball or football stadium.

The "big wall" look is awful. It's like a high school gym.

[ZachTheZip]

There need to be decks/tiers. When done properly (i.e. the opposite of the JAR, with the second deck overhanging the first instead of a walkway setting it back) it creates a big-time feel to the place and moves the upper seats closer to the court than they would be in a single-tier seating arrangement. It also creates a natural place to put luxury suites. Think the Q with the nosebleed deck removed.

[g-mann17]

I'm sure it has been mentioned but UNC-Charlotte Halton Arena (9000 cap), is a perfect design, and it was done for $29 million in the 90's.

[powerofx]

I'm sure it has been mentioned but UNC-Charlotte Halton Arena (9000 cap), is a perfect design, and it was done for $29 million in the 90's.

You do realize that the upper level of Halton has a jogging track around it and three of the four upper deck seating areas fold in to be used for rec hoops and volleyball? No suites. It's an oversized JAR.

That being said, when it is full it is loud as all get out with the relatively low ceiling and seats on top of the court.

[g-mann17]

You do realize that the upper level of Halton has a jogging track around it and three of the four upper deck seating areas fold in to be used for rec hoops and volleyball? No suites. It's an oversized JAR.

That being said, when it is full it is loud as all get out with the relatively low ceiling and seats on top of the court.

Yes, its built into the SAC, but everything in this thread is about modeling, idea generation. So, its something to start with and consider. Is you dump the track and make seating permanent, then its a hell of a facilty.

Also, if we build on campus, we don't need to build admin offices, you could reno the jar into a practice and admin facility.

[odhgibo]

I was looking for the original seating capacity of the JAR before seatbacks were installed, and can't find the number anywhere. Does anyone have a source?

This is from a 3/3/2010 post on this site:

According to the media guide the official attendance for the December 9, 1986 game was 8,168. The actual attendance was in excess of 10,000.

[akzipper]

Put huge Zippy heads on the corners of the jumbotron (or, maybe better yet, the streamlined mean-looking kangaroo head) and have them spray fire out of the nostrils at pivotal points in the game. Same as the Q with the swords (you can feel the heat when they do). Actually, I thought I heard somewhere where the Cavs owner wants a new jumbotron...

Yeah the Q already had one of my favorite scoreboards. But Gilbert announced he wants to bring in a new one that's about 60ft, similar to the ones used in Houston and Indiana. Basically a scaled down version of the Cowboys Stadium scoreboard.

I don't think UA could afford that, so why not just buy the old jumbotron from the Q?

I'd like to see a really nice scoreboard like that, and the "ribbon" boards on the upper deck. Like we have at InfoCision. Great spot for advertising.

[infofan]

I was at that akron Cleveland state game at the then HPE bldg and to be honest I don't know if there were over 8000 there. Certainly not 10k. Its hard to believe replacing the west side bleachers with chairbacks reduced the seating cap 1500.Seating capacity was listed at 7,096 ( which was a stretch) and I think a number of students and fans came in, couldn't find seats and left. Interesting to note CSU was selling out its 3600 seat gym nightly back then and clambering for a new facility, only to see their crowds dwindle to 2500 or so now.

In a related note, are we going to set an all time single season attendance record at the Can't game? Although we averaged about 4000 in Huggins years we played fewer games. I don't recall ever having multiple crowds over 5000 like this year.

[infofan]

Yeah the Q already had one of my favorite scoreboards. But Gilbert announced he wants to bring in a new one that's about 60ft, similar to the ones used in Houston and Indiana. Basically a scaled down version of the Cowboys Stadium scoreboard.

I don't think UA could afford that, so why not just buy the old jumbotron from the Q?

I'd like to see a really nice scoreboard like that, and the "ribbon" boards on the upper deck. Like we have at InfoCision. Great spot for advertising.

While I think the video quality of the scoreboard at the Q is much much better. Than the DAKtronic board we have at the JAR I doubt that it would fit. It would hang about 8 feet off the floor. We payed for the old board with money from Pepsi when we signed a contract. What did we get when we signed a new contract with Coke?

[johnnyzip84]

I was at that akron Cleveland state game at the then HPE bldg and to be honest I don't know if there were over 8000 there. Certainly not 10k. Its hard to believe replacing the west side bleachers with chairbacks reduced the seating cap 1500.Seating capacity was listed at 7,096 ( which was a stretch) and I think a number of students and fans came in, couldn't find seats and left. Interesting to note CSU was selling out its 3600 seat gym nightly back then and clambering for a new facility, only to see their crowds dwindle to 2500 or so now.

In a related note, are we going to set an all time single season attendance record at the Can't game? Although we averaged about 4000 in Huggins years we played fewer games. I don't recall ever having multiple crowds over 5000 like this year.

Good point about the number of crowds over 5000 this year. It's a shame it didn't start sooner (Princeton, MTSU).

In that old CSU-UA game, there were a LOT of people standing around the 4 corners of the running track and in front of the "end zones" at the same level. I think 8000 has been the consisent estimate for that crowd, but who knows how accurate that was.

[Dave in Green]

..... Its hard to believe replacing the west side bleachers with chairbacks reduced the seating cap 1500.Seating capacity was listed at 7,096 (which was a stretch) .....

Thanks, I also heard from another source that official seating capacity was about 7,000 before some of the bench seating was replaced with individual seating, which reduced capacity to the current 5,500. The reason I asked the question is because I was thinking back to the bad rumor about a new arena with seating for only 3,800, which Tom Wistricill categorically denied was being considered. I was thinking that perhaps the 3,800 number might be more related to a JAR upgrade that would replace all bench seating with individual seating. I know that many have complained of the discomfort of the JAR's bench seating. But if converting to all individual seats would pull the official seating capacity down below 4,000, that doesn't sound like a very good option.