A New Arena

[zippyman23]

Think a step lower. Wooster, Erie, Youngstown, Toledo, Wheeling, Dayton, and Columbus (LOL!!! sorry) have minor league hockey.

Marion (for crying out loud), Wheeling, Cincinnati, and Dayton ahve arena football (Canton had one but the arena is not interested about anything but the Charge now)

Cincinnati, Dayton, and Oberlin have indoor soccer

Check out all the other events those arenas have. Don't think about events you want to see, think about events that would bring revenue to the University.

Picture students with access to intramural and pickup arena soccer, football, lacrosse year round. Picture 10 years from now an AD who wants full floor sports.

Think outside the JAR.

Yes, you could use a new arena for arena football, minor league hockey, indoor soccer, etc., but that doesn't mean you are going to make any money off of it. Wright State (Nutter Center) used to host those sports, but doesn't any longer because it didn't make financial sense and took away from the basketball team. There's just not that much interest for those sports that it is going to make financial sense for a new arena to accommodate them.

[pat]

I think it is entertaining and fun to read all of the ideas posted here. And I understand that many of us may take some suggestions with a grain of salt and perhaps others more seriously. At the end of the day IMHO, I see The University of Akron making sound decisions on the size and nature of a new arena. I suspect it will be multi-purpose on some level (I'd be happy with basketball, concerts and limited convention use) using only university funds whether they come directly from within or raised by the department of development through donations from alumni and other friends of UA. If you look at the campus one would have to admit that most if not nearly all UA facilities are multi-purpose to some degree or another. Being multi-purpose is certainly not a new concept for The University of Akron.

The football stadium is still being considered for concerts albeit a slow if not annoying process.

E.J. Thomas is about as multi-purpose as you can get when it wants to be.

The Student Union hosts a plethora of different events.

Jackson Field is certainly multi-purpose.

And, the list goes on and on...but the bottom line: ALL UA on - campus facilities are superb at being community friendly to the greater Akron area and region. I consider the campus to be the most centralized location in the Akron and Summit County area. GO ZIPS!

[GP1]

Don't forget the Rubber City Roller Girls!

We could build both practice facilities on campus because the use of the arena will be so great nobody will be able to fit practice time into the main arena hall. We just can't assume a dog knows how to trot between orange cones and not to crap in the middle of the competition.

[Spin]

I certainly believe that with an investment of this magnitude, UA has to very carefully research the local market and anticipate what types of events are likely -- not just remotely possible -- to be economically viable in the future. This will need to take into consideration other nearby facilities that would be competing for similar events. The research also needs to carefully consider how much profit each type of event is likely to generate versus construction and operating costs of a facility that can support each type of event. If a multipurpose arena makes sound economic sense for UA, then by all means make that investment if an investor will make the funding available at a reasonable interest rate. If it should turn out that an arena designed specifically around a basketball court can hold almost every type of realistically projected event at a substantial cost savings, then make the smarter investment. Right now I'm pretty optimistic about the future of Zips basketball and the need for a somewhat larger, more optimized basketball arena. I remain skeptical that some of the types of events mentioned here as possibilities would be likely to generate sufficient income in the Akron market to offset the added construction and operating costs.

The first step would be a cost analysis of the cost of a building with a 4700 square foot floor compared to the cost of a 17000 square foot floor.

Next would be to poll the student population to determine the usage of a fitness/recreational facility of that size for those activities.

Then study the income from various arena shows. They pay well in Wheeling, they would work here.

Then you look at the stage events you could bring in an additional 1500 +/- people. Which could be the difference between a dart tournament (LOL!!!) and Kid Rock.

Then you can do your market study on minor league sports teams, if you want the extra revenue. The Canton Invaders and Ohio Vortex were/are sustainable in Canton and Medina, why wouldn't it be in Akron? Same with the Wooster Oilers. And Marion, Ohio has had arena football forever. Really, Marion??

Anyway I'm just thinking out loud, hoping someone important is listening. I know the usual naysayers and narcissists are going to poo poo anything not related directly to them. And I also expect the University to act like a university, and build only for what it perceives it needs today, and not at potential revenue producing events that could help pay for the facility.

[Blue & Gold]

grand opening video.

(Barry Manilow?)

[edit] Capacity: 10,600 - probably a little larger than we want.

[Blue & Gold]

.

The videographer was sitting directly across from the one ugly, closed corner of the arena (JAR-like corner). If we could extend the arena around without any closed corners, this would be perfect, as I love the dimensions of the Ryan Center.

Here's another link from Stadium and Arena Visits which contains more pictures. (The exterior of the Ryan Center is hideous.)

Capacity: 7,657 (with the closed corner)

If we'd complete the arena it would probably be right at 10,000-seats.

[Dave in Green]

@pat, multi-purpose can be a bit confusing when referring to a sports arena. Really, all arenas are technically multi-purpose to some extent. But in common usage, multi-purpose is used to describe arenas with floor areas that can accomodate such things as a hockey rink, arena football field, arena soccer pitch, etc. Even though arenas with a floor size optimized for a basketball court and nothing larger can be used for multiple types of events, they are limited to events where a hockey rink-size floor space is not required. It would probably be less confusing to describe an arena with the larger floor space as all-purpose.

[pat]

.

The videographer was sitting directly across from the one ugly, closed corner of the arena (JAR-like corner). If we could extend the arena around without any closed corners, this would be perfect, as I love the dimensions of the Ryan Center.

Here's another link from Stadium and Arena Visits which contains more pictures. (The exterior of the Ryan Center is hideous.)

Capacity: 7,657 (with the closed corner)

If we'd complete the arena it would probably be right at 10,000-seats.

I see exactly what you mean by the "ugly closed corner". It is very JAR like indeed.

[pat]

grand opening video.

(Barry Manilow?)

[edit] Capacity: 10,600 - probably a little larger than we want.

I'll take it...so it's a little larger. It's beautiful and we deserve it. Let's just say we'll grow into it just like the 30,000 seat Info

[Spin]

I have a leaked photo of the new ballpark design. Check out these sight lines...

[Zipmeister]

Yes, you could use a new arena for arena football, minor league hockey, indoor soccer, etc., but that doesn't mean you are going to make any money off of it. Wright State (Nutter Center) used to host those sports, but doesn't any longer because it didn't make financial sense and took away from the basketball team. There's just not that much interest for those sports that it is going to make financial sense for a new arena to accommodate them.

Really, I don't recall an arena football or indoor soccer game at the Nut House, but if there was you can bet the school made a profit on the deal. Wright State stopped hosting hockey games because the minor league hockey team that rented the facility folded. That doesn't mean renting to them didn't make financial sense for the school. They still do pretty good renting the place out for concerts, monster trucks and off road motorcycle events, and Jehovah's Witnesses love fests. All this took away so much from the basketball team that they got a million dollar practice facility built right next to the Nutter Center.

[zippyman23]

Really, I don't recall an arena football or indoor soccer game at the Nut House, but if there was you can bet the school made a profit on the deal. Wright State stopped hosting hockey games because the minor league hockey team that rented the facility folded. That doesn't mean renting to them didn't make financial sense for the school. They still do pretty good renting the place out for concerts, monster trucks and off road motorcycle events, and Jehovah's Witnesses love fests. All this took away so much from the basketball team that they got a million dollar practice facility built right next to the Nutter Center.

I didn't say you couldn't make a profit off those sports, there's just very little profit to be made. Yes the Bombers folded, but when Wright State was approached by the Gems, they turned them down. As for the practice facility, that was funded through private donations, not monster truck show revenue.

But really that is missing the point. Wright State had a facility capable of hosting those events in place, we don't. Is it worth the additional costs for those capabilities? I don't thinks so.

[zippy5]

If no minor league teams made a profit, they wouldn't exist. Doesn't mean they will succeed in Akron, but you can't just dismiss them as nothing.

[zippyman23]

If no minor league teams made a profit, they wouldn't exist. Doesn't mean they will succeed in Akron, but you can't just dismiss them as nothing.

You obviously missed the point. It's not matter of if a minor league team can turn a profit, it would be a matter of if Akron can make a big enough profit off of renting the facility to those teams to justify the extra $$$ it would take to build an arena capable of hosting those events.

[JeffQ78]

Ok, before I completely finish the seats, are there any major concerns with this?

EDIT: concerns with the seating or layout of the stands, not concerned about the floor size at the moment

[pat]

Ok, before I completely finish the seats, are there any major concerns with this?

EDIT: concerns with the seating or layout of the stands, not concerned about the floor size at the moment

Not a concern but hope you intend on putting in 100% seats and no bleachers. Otherwise, looking good!

[Blue & Gold]

Ok, before I completely finish the seats, are there any major concerns with this?

EDIT: concerns with the seating or layout of the stands, not concerned about the floor size at the moment

This may be hard to explain, but where are the lobbies/foyer areas; where do people enter the arena to find their seats?

Also, I'm a bit confused. I see five loges. Opposite the loges I see the press area (IIRC). But what do you have in mind for the end-zone areas on that level?

[JeffQ78]

Oh right, that is going to change. I didn't like the amount of chairs that were in the rows so I changed it and haven't gotten around fixing those boxes. The end zones I am not too sure about, I was going to wait for the seats to be set before I made any decisions in that area, but I am planning on keeping the corners open to open up the concourse area underneath the stands so it isn't cramped for the concessions also for handicapped seating.

[zippy5]

You obviously missed the point. It's not matter of if a minor league team can turn a profit, it would be a matter of if Akron can make a big enough profit off of renting the facility to those teams to justify the extra $$$ it would take to build an arena capable of hosting those events.

Huh?? They're not going to lose money on rent. As long as the team turns a profit and can pay rent and their expenses, the U will be turning a profit.

[Dave in Green]

Huh?? They're not going to lose money on rent. As long as the team turns a profit and can pay rent and their expenses, the U will be turning a profit.

The point that zippyman23 was making is that whatever additional costs are incurred in building, maintaining and operating an all-purpose arena over a less complex, less costly basketball-optimized arena must be paid for exclusively by non-basketball activities. Zips basketball will never generate enough income to underwrite other activities that can't carry their own weight.

[zippyman23]

Huh?? They're not going to lose money on rent. As long as the team turns a profit and can pay rent and their expenses, the U will be turning a profit.

It would cost more money to build an arena capable of hosting such events than one for basketball only. You seem to be forgetting that. That rent really isn't profit until you can recover those initial costs. It's a poor investment, IMO.

[Zipmeister]

I didn't say you couldn't make a profit off those sports, there's just very little profit to be made. Yes the Bombers folded, but when Wright State was approached by the Gems, they turned them down. As for the practice facility, that was funded through private donations, not monster truck show revenue.

But really that is missing the point. Wright State had a facility capable of hosting those events in place, we don't. Is it worth the additional costs for those capabilities? I don't thinks so.

They didn't have such a facility in place until they moved out of their 2500 seat gym and built the 10,000 seat (for basketball) multi-purpose facility.

A bunch of the money came from naming rights and the state of Ohio. Well worth it just as it would be for Akron.

[zippy5]

It would cost more money to build an arena capable of hosting such events than one for basketball only. You seem to be forgetting that. That rent really isn't profit until you can recover those initial costs. It's a poor investment, IMO.

Right, so if a minor league team can sustain itself here (see akron aeros) we would have an extra revenue stream. I think the only evidence we have on the success of a minor league team here would be past attempts. The Aeros do well, the indoor soccer team set attendance records.. Why is it a poor investment? I'm going to pull a dave and ask for some real numbers here. I see a lot of people saying so and so will never succeed here or make money without much reasoning. Nevermind the fact that if we go multi purpose, it's because the city shared the costs with us, so we have less at risk.

[Dave in Green]

@zippy5, I'm going to assume here from the points you're making that you've had little experience in the business world. The way it works is that those who believe a profit can be made on a speculative project must convince investors that it's worth investing in that project. I can assure you that it does not work by asking skeptical investors to prove that money cannot be made on a speculative project. The best businesses and the best investors typically do a thorough analysis of the market before investing a dime in physical properties. Folksy tales about once upon a time something similar was somewhat successful for a limited time before pulling up stakes and leaving will not get the job done.

[zippy5]

@zippy5, I'm going to assume here from the points you're making that you've had little experience in the business world. The way it works is that those who believe a profit can be made on a speculative project must convince investors that it's worth investing in that project. I can assure you that it does not work by asking skeptical investors to prove that money cannot be made on a speculative project. The best businesses and the best investors typically do a thorough analysis of the market before investing a dime in physical properties. Folksy tales about once upon a time something similar was somewhat successful for a limited time before pulling up stakes and leaving will not get the job done.

Well Dave, I'm a CPA. Keep your assumptions in journalism.