Schedule

[MDZip]

[legendofzippy]

It's not really a conspiracy. Follow the money. The MAC has bowl tie-ins, but they need teams bowl eligible to fill those spots. So they - and other conferences - setup schedules trying to maximize bowl-eligible teams. This benefits the conference and also all teams.

The NFL is completely different. Parity is good to keep all franchises healthy. The NCAA doesn't need that.

Obviously there's a lot more to it than that, but that's the gist of the thought process.

I'd say it doesn't matter. Our team hasn't been crap because of bad scheduling, it's been crap because we hired the wrong coaches. Now we hire a good one and things are looking up. No secret to it really, just hard to find that guy sometimes.

[zippy5]

Maybe the bad teams will lose and the good teams will win, regardless. The good teams beat the bad teams, so they have better records. I know it's no crazy, fun conspiracy, but..

[Dave in Green]

... The MAC has bowl tie-ins, but they need teams bowl eligible to fill those spots. So they - and other conferences - setup schedules trying to maximize bowl-eligible teams. This benefits the conference and also all teams. ...

Over the years I've seen a lot of speculation that things like this happen in various conferences. It wouldn't be a total shock if this has happened on occasion. But I don't recall ever seeing positive verification that it's a widespread problem. If conferences deliberately manipulate schedules to benefit favored teams and penalize disfavored teams, then the old speculation about encouraging officials to favor some teams over others would also be in play. Can anyone point to any kind of verifiable documentation? I don't consider fan speculation on sports forums to be verifiable documentation.

[LZIp]

Maybe the bad teams will lose and the good teams will win, regardless. The good teams beat the bad teams, so they have better records. I know it's no crazy, fun conspiracy, but..

You sir, are a genius.

[GP1]

It wouldn't be a total shock if this has happened on occasion.

And it shouldn't. I also think there is some good logic in doing it periodically. Making NIU's schedule favorable in order to get them to a BCS game is good business for the MAC. It isn't a widespread problem, but tweaking of schedules can happen in order to make it favorable for one team. It doesn't guarantee winning or losing, but it makes it more favorable.

Besides, who is going to complain. NIU? When they looked at their schedule, does anyone think they said, "This isn't fair. We shouldn't be playing Akron four out of five years." Of course they keep their mouths shut. The only time they open their mouths at that point is when they are laughing all the way to the bank.

As the Zips get better, this needs to become a negotiating point for future schedules. If we get to the point we win seven games and are on the verge of great things, we need to be able to look at the scheduling body and say, "Remember when you guys were screwing us left a right a few years ago making us play NIU when we stunk? It's our turn now." We need an AD who can have these conversations with the rest of the league and land us in more favorable positions. Not guaranteed wins, but more favorable positions. It's what ADs are supposed to do and need to be good at doing. When they can't get this job done, it makes them ineffective at their jobs and they don't serve their schools well. They have to be good at the politics.

[Dave in Green]

@GP1, you should write a novel. Seriously, though, painting a detailed picture of why and how something might be happening doesn't rise to the level of proving that it's happened. Separating reality from speculation requires hard evidence.

[GP1]

Separating reality from speculation requires hard evidence.

Or an ounce of common sense.

[Dave in Green]

A long, long time before internet forums, people used to sit around fires at night talking about how obvious it was that the sun and stars revolved around the earth, which was clearly the center of the universe. It was common sense at the time.

[GP1]

A long, long time before internet forums, people used to sit around fires at night talking about how obvious it was that the sun and stars revolved around the earth, which was clearly the center of the universe. It was common sense at the time.

Long, long ago people believed people working in college athletics worked for the interest of the schools and everything was fair and these hard working people had the best interests of everyone involved in college athletics in mind. It was common sense at the time.

[legendofzippy]

Over the years I've seen a lot of speculation that things like this happen in various conferences. It wouldn't be a total shock if this has happened on occasion. But I don't recall ever seeing positive verification that it's a widespread problem. If conferences deliberately manipulate schedules to benefit favored teams and penalize disfavored teams, then the old speculation about encouraging officials to favor some teams over others would also be in play. Can anyone point to any kind of verifiable documentation? I don't consider fan speculation on sports forums to be verifiable documentation.

I'm sort of in the same camp. On one hand, if this was happening you have to think something would be said by now. On the other hand, I look at the MAC schedules every year.

[Dave in Green]

@GP1, I've just spent the last hour trying to do your homework for you. I've searched and searched the internet for any solid information about how college football conference schedules are set. As I expected, there's precious little out there. But I finally found a story -- ACC releases 12-year rotating schedule -- about how the ACC released a schedule that defines which cross-division teams each conference team will play for the next 12 years. So we can confirm that the ACC does not sit down every year and jigger the cross-division schedule to help the teams that are most likely to go to bowl games.

Can anyone else find any data like that, either pro or con?

[LZIp]

B1G has their conference schedule released clear up to 2018-2019.

Let me guess. B1G commish is sitting around all day trying to figure out which team will be the best in 2019 so he can try to get them into the 4 team playoff.

http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-footbl/spec.../101613aad.html

[LZIp]

The SEC apparently has a 12 year conference rotation schedule, so much for the South Carolina conspiracy.

The 2014 schedule is based on a 12-year rotation of conference opponents, which includes six divisional contests for each team, along with games against one permanent non-divisional opponent and one rotating non-divisional opponent.

http://www.secdigitalnetwork.com/NEWS/tabi...l-schedule.aspx

[GP1]

As I expected, there's precious little out there.

If one Googles fixed schedules, there IS little out there because there is only one conference doing it as well as the ACC is. The ACC is a horrible football league, but the conference in general is pretty well run. The ACC has it right and every other conference should follow along with what they are doing. The SEC has tried to maintain traditional rivalries, but that has proven to be unfair. Tradition is overrated in college football and rotating schedules are the best way to go. Until every conference adopts this institutional control, tweaking of schedules will continue and it undermines the integrity of the game.

[GP1]

The SEC apparently has a 12 year conference rotation schedule, so much for the South Carolina conspiracy.

http://www.secdigitalnetwork.com/NEWS/tabi...l-schedule.aspx

The sec doesn't have a true rotation as some traditional rival games are still being held.

Also, my post above about South Carolina still holds true. This sec schedule doesn't take place until 2014. OH, speaking of South Carolina football, I have a tailgate to get to in Columbia (The Screen Door To Hell).

See everyone tomorrow.

[Dave in Green]

@GP1, did you read the story I linked to? It states that in addition to the rotating crossover opponent, each ACC team also has a non-rotating crossover opponent (i.e. rival) from the opposite division. In other words, the ACC is not much different in its scheduling from what other conferences are doing.

@LZip, thanks for taking the time to research the info on two more conferences. I'm thinking this is likely the way most conferences are operating these days.

[GP1]

@Dave. No, I was in a hurry so I skimmed.

Anyhow, conference structures to rotate cross divisional games is great. My question is, if the conferences were doing such a great, ethical and non-favoritism job of scheduling, why all of the sudden are they discussion structured rotation? Wasn't the old way of ADs working through these problems working great for everyone?

[LZIp]

@Dave. No, I was in a hurry so I skimmed.

Anyhow, conference structures to rotate cross divisional games is great. My question is, if the conferences were doing such a great, ethical and non-favoritism job of scheduling, why all of the sudden are they discussion structured rotation? Wasn't the old way of ADs working through these problems working great for everyone?

I think its obvious that the recent conference realignment caused the need for new rotation discussions.

[Dave in Green]

@GP1, I'm not sure that I get your point. It appears that most large conferences have always had both rotating and non-rotating (rival) opponents on their schedules. I'm not aware of any fundamental change in the way that ADs interface with the conference scheduling committees. Scheduling is more in the news today as a result of all the conference realignments creating the need for many scheduling changes.

[GP1]

I'm not aware of any fundamental change in the way that ADs interface with the conference scheduling committees.

Then this needs to change. ADs are at the center of the sleaziness of college athletics. Cross divisional games should be schedules in one of three ways.

First, an established rotation without any concern for tradition.

Second, a lottery.This would be extremely hard to match up schedules and I don't see how it would work.

Third and my favorite. Do it the old NFL way. If you come in first place one year, you have to play the top team from the other division the next year. If there are two cross divisional games, the first place teams have to play the #1 and #2 finishers. If you come in last place, you play the last place team from the other division. If there are an odd number of teams in the league, figure it out, but don't give the top finishing teams cupcakes the following year. This method attempts to creates necessary parity that college athletics has never tried to achieve.

I don't care how they do it, they need to get the politics out of the scheduling process.

[Zips Win!]

And it shouldn't. I also think there is some good logic in doing it periodically. Making NIU's schedule favorable in order to get them to a BCS game is good business for the MAC. It isn't a widespread problem, but tweaking of schedules can happen in order to make it favorable for one team. It doesn't guarantee winning or losing, but it makes it more favorable.

Besides, who is going to complain. NIU? When they looked at their schedule, does anyone think they said, "This isn't fair. We shouldn't be playing Akron four out of five years." Of course they keep their mouths shut. The only time they open their mouths at that point is when they are laughing all the way to the bank.

I couldn't disagree more! Screw the moron of a commissioner we have. I am tired of getting screwed with the schedule. NIU gets an easy schedule every year so they can make a BCS bowl. I was pissed last year, but didn't complain too much. Now that we got screwed again, I am done with this d-bag. And I am off the NIU win one for the MAC bandwagon as well. Tired of getting NIU, Ball State and Toledo while NIU gets a cakewalk. Have a rotation and make the schedules fair.

Think if we get EMU, CMU and WMU instead this year and we have a commish that would stand up to the big10 after we get screwed the 2 downs and 9 seconds in the shit house, who knows where this team might be. Tired of getting walked all over. Someone needs to stand up for the Zips for once and tell the dude where to go.

[LZIp]

curious to what you think could have been accomplished by the MAC commish complaining about the Michigan game.

[GP1]

And I am off the NIU win one for the MAC bandwagon as well.

It used to be the Marshall win one for the MAC bandwagon. The league treated them incredibly favorably years ago to get in the MAC and it created a situation where they dominated the league. To pretend leagues don't show selective favoritism to various teams on a year by year basis is foolish. It's good business to do this for the league. Horrible for the likes of UofA.

It isn't just the commissioner though. A school has to have an AD willing to fight battles to keep his/her school from being exploited in favor of the NIUs of the world. Ours doesn't seem to be effective at fighting that battle. As it relates to the football program, the only thing he has shown himself to be good at is running it into the ground. The best job this guy should have in athletics is loading t-shirts into the air gun on the back of an ATV at minor league baseball games.

[Dave in Green]

So if Coach Bowden builds the Zips into the strongest team in the MAC, does the MAC start favoring UA as the most likely bowl winner over the rest of the teams? Or does the MAC's inherent dislike for UA trump that and they still try to screw UA? I'm having a hard time keeping up with all the byzantine sports politics and family feuding around here.